What are "corporations" if not people?

[bripat9643]

She's right. Corporations are not people. The Supreme Court ruled incorrectly.

Are unions people? Is the Sierra club people?

They are corporations.

What liberals believe is too stupid for words to describe.

You're a fucking idiot. I've never argued that the unions or the Sierra club were individuals. I had no problem with policy position advocacy that the unions, Sierra, or Exxon took. Let their owners/members worry about that. I do have a problem with them becoming involved in candidate advocacy.

If Exxon wanted to spend money telling us that the historic levels of CO2 is good for our planet, fine. They were lying scum, but that was their right. When the Koch Brothers now want to put out ads that endorse or attack specific candidates, without any accountability, that's fucking with our republic, and that's not fine.

Now go back to sleep and see if you can think of an argument that makes sense.

Unions and the Sierra club have been endorsing specific candidates and donating money to them ever since they were formed.

I don't see numbskulls like you complaining about that.

 

[Too Tall]

She's right. Corporations are not people. The Supreme Court ruled incorrectly.

Are you a constitutional lawyer?

 

[bripat9643]

A corporation can serve time in prison for a crime?

People who are members of the corporations can serve time in prison for committing crimes. Just ask Bernie Madoff or Michael Milken.

Ahh... but what about the people who profit from their actions? The people who hire them (i.e. their bosses)? What is their responsibility?

If you can prove culpability, then they should go to jail too. However, it has to stop somewhere. should every stock holder also go to jail for the actions of Ivan Boesky?

 

[Too Tall]

If they are "people" as you claim they are then I want haliburton put to death for electrocuting our troops in Iraq

Did they do that with malice aforethought, was it premeditated, or was it due to the incompetence of an individual?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[bripat9643]

becuase corporations dont place country first they place profit first

The United Auto Workers doesn't place the country first either.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Tu quoque is inadequate in this case.

Unions serve workers while corporations serve profits.

becuase corporations dont place country first they place profit first

The United Auto Workers doesn't place the country first either.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Can you give us an example of a corporation killing people?

A Perth crane company has been found guilty of causing the death of a worker by failing to provide and maintain a safe workplace.

please get a life?

So if you roof drains onto your drive way, and the runoff freezes and turns it into a skating rink, you have killed someone if they slip on it and smash their skull open? Should you be tried for murder?

you asked for an example of a corporation killing somebody. I posted an example. What is it you don't like fact or reality?

and you said "No one in this discussion has said a corporation is a person. They have said corporations are people, which is 100% accurate" - which is idiocy on steroids

 

[manifold]

A corporation is not equal to an individual person, and IMO it is folly to extend individual liberties to a corporate entity as if it were.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

A corporation is not equal to an individual person, and IMO it is folly to extend individual liberties to a corporate entity as if it were.

Did the Court rule a corporation is equal to an individual person with the same liberties?

Good question.

 

[Too Tall]

If corporations are people then they are people who continually shirk their responsibilities, easily over ride the interests of actual people, cause damage to society and the environment far in excess of what a single person could do and are practically impossible to punish for their wrong doings. If a person such as that lived next door you would hate their stinking guts.

BOY are YOU so on target! YES EVERY DAY ALL Corporations are :
1) killing their consumers!
2) Destroying ALL PROPERTY!

YES these CORPORATIONS are like the BORG!!!
"RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!!

EVERY CORPORATION STEALS from EVERYONE ALL the time!

YES we need to destroy CORPORATIONS and life will be 100% better!!!

Let us all return to the time BEFORE corporations and their MASSIVE DESTRUCTION!
Return to when Life expectancy was less then 40 years!
Return to when letters took 20 days to go 100 miles!
Return to when there was NO Rice Crispies.. NO KFC! YES LET's DESTROY them before these evil corporations ORDER their cars to KILL all their drivers!

Isn't that totally STUPID... much like YOUR comment!!!

The problem is that the owners of corporations aren't held fully accountable for what their companies do in the name of earning them a profit. So stockholders feel relatively free to hire 'gunslinger' CEOs who will do whatever is necessary to bring in the dough. They pay them exorbitant salaries to be, essentially, fall guys who will do the dirty work and take the hit if caught. The worst case scenario (from an investor's POV) will be the crooked CEOs getting busted and the company losing some money.

If owners of a privately held company did this, if they hired unscrupulous thugs and told them to do whatever it took to earn a profit, they would be culpable. At the very least, they'd be liable for lawsuits resulting from the actions of their company. They could lose everything they own, not just the money invested in the business. My question is, why should corporate investors be shielded from this kind of responsibility?

Advantages of a corporation

A corporation (from Latin “corpus”, literally “body&#8221 is considered to be a person who is completely separate from its owners. Owners are known as shareholders because they own only a share or part of the organization. Like a person, corporations may own property and assets, take on debt to finance operations, and sell shares to raise money. The corporation enjoys four major advantages that, when combined, make this type of organization attractive for large ventures.

1. Owner liability is limited to the loss of the value of shares held. Owners’ entire wealth is not in jeopardy if the corporation goes bankrupt or ceases operation.

2. When owners die, shares of the corporation can be willed to family members or other entities just like any other asset.

3. Selling ownership of a corporation is simply a matter of selling shares to a buyer willing to pay the price of the shares.

4. The permanent nature of corporations makes capital easier to acquire as lenders do not have to worry about the death of its owners.

Disadvantages

The corporation does have one major disadvantage. Income made by the corporation is taxed twice. The first taxation occurs because the corporation is considered to be a person and, therefore, is taxed accordingly. Then, the income gained through ownership of the corporation is taxed as personal income in the owners’ income tax.

Advantages of a Corporation Over a Partnership or Sole Proprietorship

Class dismissed.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

BOY are YOU so on target! YES EVERY DAY ALL Corporations are :
1) killing their consumers!
2) Destroying ALL PROPERTY!

YES these CORPORATIONS are like the BORG!!!
"RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!!

EVERY CORPORATION STEALS from EVERYONE ALL the time!

YES we need to destroy CORPORATIONS and life will be 100% better!!!

Let us all return to the time BEFORE corporations and their MASSIVE DESTRUCTION!
Return to when Life expectancy was less then 40 years!
Return to when letters took 20 days to go 100 miles!
Return to when there was NO Rice Crispies.. NO KFC! YES LET's DESTROY them before these evil corporations ORDER their cars to KILL all their drivers!

Isn't that totally STUPID... much like YOUR comment!!!

The problem is that the owners of corporations aren't held fully accountable for what their companies do in the name of earning them a profit. So stockholders feel relatively free to hire 'gunslinger' CEOs who will do whatever is necessary to bring in the dough. They pay them exorbitant salaries to be, essentially, fall guys who will do the dirty work and take the hit if caught. The worst case scenario (from an investor's POV) will be the crooked CEOs getting busted and the company losing some money.

If owners of a privately held company did this, if they hired unscrupulous thugs and told them to do whatever it took to earn a profit, they would be culpable. At the very least, they'd be liable for lawsuits resulting from the actions of their company. They could lose everything they own, not just the money invested in the business. My question is, why should corporate investors be shielded from this kind of responsibility?

Advantages of a corporation

A corporation (from Latin “corpus”, literally “body”) is considered to be a person who is completely separate from its owners. Owners are known as shareholders because they own only a share or part of the organization. Like a person, corporations may own property and assets, take on debt to finance operations, and sell shares to raise money. The corporation enjoys four major advantages that, when combined, make this type of organization attractive for large ventures.

1. Owner liability is limited to the loss of the value of shares held. Owners’ entire wealth is not in jeopardy if the corporation goes bankrupt or ceases operation.

2. When owners die, shares of the corporation can be willed to family members or other entities just like any other asset.

3. Selling ownership of a corporation is simply a matter of selling shares to a buyer willing to pay the price of the shares.

4. The permanent nature of corporations makes capital easier to acquire as lenders do not have to worry about the death of its owners.

Disadvantages

The corporation does have one major disadvantage. Income made by the corporation is taxed twice. The first taxation occurs because the corporation is considered to be a person and, therefore, is taxed accordingly. Then, the income gained through ownership of the corporation is taxed as personal income in the owners’ income tax.

Advantages of a Corporation Over a Partnership or Sole Proprietorship

Class dismissed.

sidebar

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

A corporation is not equal to an individual person, and IMO it is folly to extend individual liberties to a corporate entity as if it were.

Did the Court rule a corporation is equal to an individual person with the same liberties?

Good question.

To buy into the right wing spin prevalent at National Review, you have to accept this premise they've laid out: "Putting aside the technical legal reality that corporations are considered “persons” under the law (they can sue and be sued, pay taxes, speak, etc.)..."

so you have to put reality aside?

 

[manifold]

A corporation is not equal to an individual person, and IMO it is folly to extend individual liberties to a corporate entity as if it were.

Did the Court rule a corporation is equal to an individual person with the same liberties?

Good question.

If I knew that answer to that I'd be smarter and better informed than I am.

but whatcha gonna do?

 

[Too Tall]

By the same logic, governments and unions are persons and should have the same rights as corporations.

It's True: Corporations Are People
What else could they be?
Buildings don't hire people.
Buildings don't design cars that run on electricity or discover drug therapies to defeat cancer.

Elizabeth Warren introduced President Obama at a big fundraiser in Boston:
"Mitt Romney tells us, in his own words, he believes corporations are people. No, Mitt, corporations are NOT people," she pronounced. "People have hearts. They have kids. They get jobs. They get sick. They love and they cry and they dance. They live and they die. Learn the difference." The audience went wild.
Jack Welch and Suzy Welch: It's True—Corporations Are People - WSJ.com

Ms. Warren.. who makes corporate decisions? Computers? Buildings? Oil wells?
Seriously .. what else but "people" make those decisions? NOT corporations!

Corporations can be and are sued for mistakes made by their management on a daily and often frivolous manner. Try suing the government for the same mistake.

Slip and fall in a post office? Injured in a traffic accident involving an FBI agent? Medical malpractice by a Veterans Administration doctor? These are only a few examples of the potential negligence claims against the federal government. If you have a claim against the feds, often your only option is to sue the federal government under the Federal Tort Claims Act (FTCA).

Unfortunately, suing the federal government under the FTCA is trickier than suing a private citizen -- you will have to jump through a number of hoops, and the lawsuits are subject to a lengthy and sometimes confusing list of limitations.

 

[whitehall]

McCain and Feingold created a law that allows left wing propaganda organizations like Media Matters to be tax exempt and the Supreme Court ruled tht corporations can contribute to political candidates they like. What goes around comes around so quit your whining lefties.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

A corporation is not equal to an individual person, and IMO it is folly to extend individual liberties to a corporate entity as if it were.

Did the Court rule a corporation is equal to an individual person with the same liberties?

Good question.

If I knew that answer to that I'd be smarter and better informed than I am.

but whatcha gonna do?

I gave you a damn good answer. One with no ambiguity.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

McCain and Feingold created a law that allows left wing propaganda organizations...

yeah, everybody knows McCain is an undercover left wing agent working for CHAOS. His code name is Smaht

 

[Nosmo King]

It's True: Corporations Are People
What else could they be?
Buildings don't hire people.
Buildings don't design cars that run on electricity or discover drug therapies to defeat cancer.

Elizabeth Warren introduced President Obama at a big fundraiser in Boston:
"Mitt Romney tells us, in his own words, he believes corporations are people. No, Mitt, corporations are NOT people," she pronounced. "People have hearts. They have kids. They get jobs. They get sick. They love and they cry and they dance. They live and they die. Learn the difference." The audience went wild.
Jack Welch and Suzy Welch: It's True—Corporations Are People - WSJ.com

Ms. Warren.. who makes corporate decisions? Computers? Buildings? Oil wells?
Seriously .. what else but "people" make those decisions? NOT corporations!

The difference between people and corporations? People vote, corporations buy politicians. People get sick and die, corporations go on forever (especially if they are big enough 'not to fail'). People are held liable for their misdeeds, corporations are designed with limited liability. People make decisions for their children, corporations make decisions for their stockholders. If a person kills someone, they face criminal prosecution. When corporations kill people, no one ends up on death row.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

A corporation is not equal to an individual person, and IMO it is folly to extend individual liberties to a corporate entity as if it were.

Did the Court rule a corporation is equal to an individual person with the same liberties?

Good question.

If I knew that answer to that I'd be smarter and better informed than I am.

but whatcha gonna do?

two cases: contract law extends legal recognition and protections to parties in contract disputes. I'm not a scholar, but I play on online.

Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dartmouth College v. Woodward - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[OODA_Loop]

Citizens United = I can incorporate and produce any movie I want.

I support that like any other 1st Protection.