What are "corporations" if not people?

[g5000]

The main problem with corporations as people is that they apparently have free speech too but they are the ones who get to use a megaphone. They get to be the squeakiest wheel in all cases, even the ones that do not directly effect them.

But couldn't you make the same claim about any group of people who pool their money for political action? Are you opposed to people combining their efforts for political change in general? Or just when those people share ownership of a business? Should individual business owners be silenced as well?

This is exactly right. Everyone is free to join a political association to amplify their voice. The NRA, a labor union, Greenpeace, etc.

Since the people we elect write laws which affect corporations, then those corporations have a right to defend themselves. It is as simple as that.

If the left had its way, corporations would be stripped defenseless in the public square so their means of production could be placed into the hands of the government.

 

[bobcollum]

Corporations are groups of people. It's not really that hard to understand. The question is, what rights do groups of people have? Do corporations deserve special rights that other groups don't? Do they deserve less than other groups?

To take it further, it's an entity run by groups of people.

It's a business, but the OP indicates people and buildings are the only options.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Corporations are organizations that provide investors limited liability. They are an artificial construct to pool peoples money and limit their risk. Those constructs don't eat, breath, nor sleep.

 

[amrchaos]

Narrow interests are damaging to our national political discourse, especially when it is the only voice being heard.

Narrow interests are the basis for any org supporting a candidate!

Unions support candidates that support better labor laws--that is a narrow interests!

Sierra Club support Green candidates--that is a narrow interests

Pro-choice/Pro-lifers support candidates that support their positions on abortion--that is a narrow interests.

Our political system is infused with orgs supporting their narrow interests. It s up to the citizen to decide which candidate will do the most for this country--not the orgs and their narrow interests.

If we took away the "narrow interests" groups, pols will have no policies to push--they would be to scared about losing voters!

 

[Truthmatters]

If corporations are people how is it fair those people get to have the rights as people and the rights as corporations too?


that gives the "people" who are the corporations extra rights non corporation people dont get.


dont you get that

Actually--corporations do not have full citizenship
They can contribute to a campaign, but they cannot vote.
Who is the corporation is a more trying question.

Is it the owners, the Ceo and the managaing board--does it include all persons that either work or own part of the corporation? Who in the corp decides who to contribute to and why?

I find the above questions interesting but not problematic in terms of corporations contributing to a campaign if all people concerned are american citizens themselves.

I find it no different than Unions contributiiong to campaigns. The difference I see is that one entity is for-profit, and the other supposed to be non-profit. You have to tell us why a for-profit organization should be barred from contributing to a campaign. Not explain how corps are different from individual citizens.

In many ways, the argument you pose about Corps can be levied at Unions and other non-profiorgs--should they also be banned from contributiing?

yes it is a good point and it elivates the conversation.



if it is a non profit it should be allowed to give unless it is religiously tied.


otherwise you cant have seperation of church and state.

For profit entities dont have the countrys best interest in heart.

They place profit over country.

churches place church over county.


Unions have ONLY one purpose and that is to protect workers.


I dont think you can rationally say Unions place anything but people over country.

since the country was designed as being of , for and by the people that is NOT a conflict of interst is it.

 

[theHawk]

Seeing how Obama is trying to make the arguement that Romney is solely responsible for everything bad Bain did, how can shitbag liberals argue that corporations aren't people?

 

[amrchaos]

Corporations are organizations that provide investors limited liability. They are an artificial construct to pool peoples money and limit their risk. Those constructs don't eat, breath, nor sleep.

The fact that a corp does not "eat, breathe, nor sleep" does not discount the fact that they are an org that is effected by the our government policies nor does it entails "limits" upon their right to advocate certain policies.

Think about it--Unions do not "sleep breathe nor eat" yet they are able to contribute. Do you consider that right? I hope you do, but you are arguing that it is not fair.

 

[Full-Auto]

Corporations are organizations that provide investors limited liability. They are an artificial construct to pool peoples money and limit their risk. Those constructs don't eat, breath, nor sleep.

The fact that a corp does not "eat, breathe, nor sleep" does not discount the fact that they are an org that is effected by the our government policies nor does it entails "limits" upon their right to advocate certain policies.

Think about it--Unions do not "sleep breathe nor eat" yet they are able to contribute. Do you consider that right? I hope you do, but you are arguing that it is not fair.

Not to mention the special privileges granted unions.

IE not having to look for work when out of work.

Just collect the check

 

[amrchaos]

Seeing how Obama is trying to make the arguement that Romney is solely responsible for everything bad Bain did, how can shitbag liberals argue that corporations aren't people?

The libs have not thought their argument through as of yet--also, given that corps are a form of representation for the capitalist system, their political hatred for them is driving them a bit out of control.

 

[amrchaos]

Corporations are organizations that provide investors limited liability. They are an artificial construct to pool peoples money and limit their risk. Those constructs don't eat, breath, nor sleep.

The fact that a corp does not "eat, breathe, nor sleep" does not discount the fact that they are an org that is effected by the our government policies nor does it entails "limits" upon their right to advocate certain policies.

Think about it--Unions do not "sleep breathe nor eat" yet they are able to contribute. Do you consider that right? I hope you do, but you are arguing that it is not fair.

Not to mention the special privileges granted unions.

IE not having to look for work when out of work.

Just collect the check

You know--the biggest disagreement between Unions and corporations has to do with the treatment of labor.

Get outside of that discussion, Unions and corporations will walk in lock step.
Essentially, what is good for the corporation making a profit is good for the Union--until it comes to how to divide that profit!


The perfect internal problem!!

 

[NYcarbineer]

If a corporation is a person, then everyone in the corporation becomes part of that one person, and the corporation, as a person, should get 1 vote on election day. The parts of the corporation, i.e., the shareholders, etc., should get no other vote.

You can't be 2 people at once.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Corporations are organizations that provide investors limited liability. They are an artificial construct to pool peoples money and limit their risk. Those constructs don't eat, breath, nor sleep.

The fact that a corp does not "eat, breathe, nor sleep" does not discount the fact that they are an org that is effected by the our government policies nor does it entails "limits" upon their right to advocate certain policies.

Think about it--Unions do not "sleep breathe nor eat" yet they are able to contribute. Do you consider that right? I hope you do, but you are arguing that it is not fair.

They are still both, unions and corporations, artificial constructs, with different rights, liabilities, and privileges from individuals. I supported McCain/Feingold, as I thought it was good public law, in spite of it effecting both.

The fact remains there is illogic in the premise of this thread, as there were in Robert's decision regarding Citizens. Corporations are not people. Any individual of associated with any organization, has the right to speak as they wish. No one has tried to stop them. The decision of Citizens, and the now secret donations to even tax exempt corporations, means that unknown money is having greater power over our the future our Republic. That sucks.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Corporations are Evil

We need to progress to govt run agrarian communes..........For the people !!!! lol

 

[NYcarbineer]

You don't even have to be a citizen to own shares in an American corporation. How is it then that a corporation can claim rights equal to individual American citizens?

 

[onecut39]

It's True: Corporations Are People
What else could they be?
Buildings don't hire people.
Buildings don't design cars that run on electricity or discover drug therapies to defeat cancer.

Elizabeth Warren introduced President Obama at a big fundraiser in Boston:
"Mitt Romney tells us, in his own words, he believes corporations are people. No, Mitt, corporations are NOT people," she pronounced. "People have hearts. They have kids. They get jobs. They get sick. They love and they cry and they dance. They live and they die. Learn the difference." The audience went wild.
Jack Welch and Suzy Welch: It's True—Corporations Are People - WSJ.com

Ms. Warren.. who makes corporate decisions? Computers? Buildings? Oil wells?
Seriously .. what else but "people" make those decisions? NOT corporations!

So when corporations kill people can we execute them? Put them in prison maybe? Slap their wrists?

(where the hell are those wrists?)

Why dont you post those incidents blowhard..............

Hope you have a lot of free time.

Google

 

[onecut39]

Seeing how Obama is trying to make the arguement that Romney is solely responsible for everything bad Bain did, how can shitbag liberals argue that corporations aren't people?

The libs have not thought their argument through as of yet--also, given that corps are a form of representation for the capitalist system, their political hatred for them is driving them a bit out of control.

Where does the buck stop? He wants to be prez. Would the buck ever get to him? Not under his present behavior.

 

[geauxtohell]

It's True: Corporations Are People
What else could they be?
Buildings don't hire people.
Buildings don't design cars that run on electricity or discover drug therapies to defeat cancer.

Elizabeth Warren introduced President Obama at a big fundraiser in Boston:
"Mitt Romney tells us, in his own words, he believes corporations are people. No, Mitt, corporations are NOT people," she pronounced. "People have hearts. They have kids. They get jobs. They get sick. They love and they cry and they dance. They live and they die. Learn the difference." The audience went wild.
Jack Welch and Suzy Welch: It's True—Corporations Are People - WSJ.com

Ms. Warren.. who makes corporate decisions? Computers? Buildings? Oil wells?
Seriously .. what else but "people" make those decisions? NOT corporations!

So when corporations kill people can we execute them? Put them in prison maybe? Slap their wrists?

(where the hell are those wrists?)

Why dont you post those incidents blowhard..............

Other than Big Tobacco knowingly suppressing medical data that showed cigarettes were carcinogenic for three decades and then deciding to target children via advertisements in the 80's since their costumer base was dying off, I am sure there isn't much there at all....................

 

[onecut39]

It just seems like equivocation from all sides on the 'corporations as people' issue. Saying 'corporations are people' is about like saying 'teams are people'. It's true to an extent, but corporations are a specific type of organization that gets special rights granted to it be its corporate charter. That's what we need to be discussing. Are those rights justified and valid? Should they be changed?

I certainly don't see how people should have LESS rights because they are part of a corporation.

Evidently YOU"VE never formed a "corporation".
A "corporation" just doesn't spring into existence.. i.e. people decide to the term is:
"incorporate".. that is a group or individual wants to for example which MOST people do is to protect those personal assets from risk of loss.

Most corporations are formed to protect individuals rights!

Why should they be protected from loss? Is that not socialism? I thought they wanted to be free and responsible.

Responsible doesn't seem to have much appeal in the corporate world.

 

[Full-Auto]

So when corporations kill people can we execute them? Put them in prison maybe? Slap their wrists?

(where the hell are those wrists?)

Why dont you post those incidents blowhard..............

Hope you have a lot of free time.

Google

So you have nothing..That was the point.

 

[The T]

The fact that a corp does not "eat, breathe, nor sleep" does not discount the fact that they are an org that is effected by the our government policies nor does it entails "limits" upon their right to advocate certain policies.

Think about it--Unions do not "sleep breathe nor eat" yet they are able to contribute. Do you consider that right? I hope you do, but you are arguing that it is not fair.

Not to mention the special privileges granted unions.

IE not having to look for work when out of work.

Just collect the check

You know--the biggest disagreement between Unions and corporations has to do with the treatment of labor.

Get outside of that discussion, Unions and corporations will walk in lock step.
Essentially, what is good for the corporation making a profit is good for the Union--until it comes to how to divide that profit!


The perfect internal problem!!

Agreed. UNIONS are a Corporation unto themselves, period.