Western Muslims: Fix the Koran, or Keep Quiet.

[protectionist]

Today on Meet the Press, they did a story about Muslims in America. They showed Muslim kids playing baseball, wearing uniforms like Major league baseball teams. The showed Muslims wearing ordinary American clothes and doing ordinary American things.

They also showed Muslims wearing middle eastern clothes like the hijab (head scarf) on women. One Muslim women said that when wearing her hijab, she got stares from American non-Muslims. She believed those people feared and/or disliked her. She said "we are not blond haired and blue eyed."

EARTH TO MUSLIM WOMAN: It doesn't matter if you are blond or blue eyed. That's not why people are staring. Lots of Americans are not blond or blue eyed. Many are black haired and brown eyed. None of that matters. You're getting stares because you are MUSLIM, and you'd still get stares if you were blonde and blue eyed, and white as snow.

There's one basic reason why you are getting stares >> THE KORAN. As long as your fundamental guidebook of life is the Koran (which you show allegiance to by wearing that hijab), you will always get stares, be feared, be resented, and frankly be disliked. As long as you adhere to a guidebook that preaches hate against non-Muslims, preaches that non-Muslims should be killed, preaches that wives should be beaten, pedophilia, slavery, etc, etc., you will always be considered an outsider from American culture.

In a nutshell, your Muslim culture (the Koran) fits into American culture like a square peg in a round hole. It is completely opposite to American ideals, culture, morals, and laws.

FIX THE KORAN. Remove the immoral/illegal trash that pollutes it, and REFORM it (as Christians did with their religion centuries ago).

I know the big obstacle to that is that Muslims believe that the Koran is the word of God, and that the word of God cannot be changed. I also realize that this is why, in 1400 years, not one word of the Koran has been changed. If you all stick to that, we all will continue to be ripping at each other. You can count on non-acceptance of your hate book by Americans and your trash ideology that comes from it. The only way to peace for all of us is to FIX THE KORAN.

This is the 21st century. You all need to stop living in a medieval world and its ridiculous mindset and face up to the fact that this revered prophet (Mo the Pedophile) was nothing but a common criminal (with creative leadership abilities), who created this book for his own devious purposes, and pretended it was the word of God to shield him and his merry men from criticism. Reform Baby! Reform. Remove the bad stuff, and leave in the good parts.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

With all due respect (since we agree in other subjects) you should read the Qur'an. Reading your post it's clear you haven't believing the requirement for women to wear a head-cover comes from it. It doesn't. There's actually no requirement to wear such attire. At least not in Qur'an. One I use looking stuff up, like this, is here:

English Translation of The Noble Quran - NobleQuran.com

Can't 'fix' Qur'an. Nor any other religous text since if you do, it ceases to be a 'divine revelation from God' and becomes a mundane revelation from Man. This is what we see with Christianity which 'fixed' Torah/Tanach making it all more warm and fuzzy. But Islam at its' core it simply a rehashing of Judaism. Without Judaism there could be no Islam or Christianity and much of what's in Islam is verbatim Judaism, especially where the various commandments are concerned.

Was an interesting line in some older movie-documentary about Islam I caught recently where someone was mentioning how God had revealed His will first to the Jews, but over time they quit listening, then again to the Christians who also quit listening, and now again to the Arabs via Islam.

As to the subject of a cover for women, that's just an extension of the calls for women to dress modestly seen in Judaism and Christianity. In both of these faiths, women will typically wear a cover when they're married, not unlike how men will keep a beard once wed. In Islam, there's a story about how the tradition of hijab came about: a Muslim women was so beautiful she proved visually distracting to the angels so God commanded she, and all Muslim women from then on cover their beauty out in public.

If you would have religions 'fix' themselves to reflect modern values then you'd be having them all cease to exist. Religions aren't supposed to change with time since those changes would be written-in by people, not revealed by God. Examples of fixed religions include Mormonism which began with claims the Bible hadn't been translated properly, and Protestantism (Baptists, Methodists, Lutherns et al.) which 'fixed' Catholicism.

 

[protectionist]

With all due respect (since we agree in other subjects) you should read the Qur'an. Reading your post it's clear you haven't believing the requirement for women to wear a head-cover comes from it. It doesn't. There's actually no requirement to wear such attire. At least not in Qur'an. One I use looking stuff up, like this, is here:

English Translation of The Noble Quran - NobleQuran.com

Can't 'fix' Qur'an. Nor any other religous text since if you do, it ceases to be a 'divine revelation from God' and becomes a mundane revelation from Man. This is what we see with Christianity which 'fixed' Torah/Tanach making it all more warm and fuzzy. But Islam at its' core it simply a rehashing of Judaism. Without Judaism there could be no Islam or Christianity and much of what's in Islam is verbatim Judaism, especially where the various commandments are concerned.

Was an interesting line in some older movie-documentary about Islam I caught recently where someone was mentioning how God had revealed His will first to the Jews, but over time they quit listening, then again to the Christians who also quit listening, and now again to the Arabs via Islam.

As to the subject of a cover for women, that's just an extension of the calls for women to dress modestly seen in Judaism and Christianity. In both of these faiths, women will typically wear a cover when they're married, not unlike how men will keep a beard once wed. In Islam, there's a story about how the tradition of hijab came about: a Muslim women was so beautiful she proved visually distracting to the angels so God commanded she, and all Muslim women from then on cover their beauty out in public.

If you would have religions 'fix' themselves to reflect modern values then you'd be having them all cease to exist. Religions aren't supposed to change with time since those changes would be written-in by people, not revealed by God. Examples of fixed religions include Mormonism which began with claims the Bible hadn't been translated properly, and Protestantism (Baptists, Methodists, Lutherns et al.) which 'fixed' Catholicism.

You reveal a great deal of ignorance about Islam.

1 Islam is not a religion. It is an ideology masquerading as a religion. The world's longest running con job (and you fall for it). Most people throughout the world do not regard Islam to be a religion, and some countries don't either (Ex. Italy).

2. I first read the Koran in 1959. Since then, I've read 18 translations of it. Most recently, Arberry, Shakir, Ali, Pickthall, and Dawood.

3. Anyone with the slightest knowledge of the Koran knows that the wearing of the hijab (head scarf) come s from Koran 33:59. You stand corrected.

SAQ Surah 33

Surat Al-'Ahzab [33:59] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????

The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation

*********************************************************

See Post # 977 in this thread >> http://www.usmessageboard.com/usmb-badlands/321591-shouldn-t-islam-be-banned-in-the-usa-66.html for numerous links explaining Islam not a religion.

 

[S.J.]

They're not gonna fix it and they're not gonna keep quiet. Now what?

 

[protectionist]

They're not gonna fix it and they're not gonna keep quiet. Now what?

Then they keep getting stared at. Just lettin them know their options.

 

[LiberalMedia]

With all due respect (since we agree in other subjects) you should read the Qur'an. Reading your post it's clear you haven't believing the requirement for women to wear a head-cover comes from it. It doesn't. There's actually no requirement to wear such attire. At least not in Qur'an. One I use looking stuff up, like this, is here:

English Translation of The Noble Quran - NobleQuran.com

Can't 'fix' Qur'an. Nor any other religous text since if you do, it ceases to be a 'divine revelation from God' and becomes a mundane revelation from Man. This is what we see with Christianity which 'fixed' Torah/Tanach making it all more warm and fuzzy. But Islam at its' core it simply a rehashing of Judaism. Without Judaism there could be no Islam or Christianity and much of what's in Islam is verbatim Judaism, especially where the various commandments are concerned.

Was an interesting line in some older movie-documentary about Islam I caught recently where someone was mentioning how God had revealed His will first to the Jews, but over time they quit listening, then again to the Christians who also quit listening, and now again to the Arabs via Islam.

As to the subject of a cover for women, that's just an extension of the calls for women to dress modestly seen in Judaism and Christianity. In both of these faiths, women will typically wear a cover when they're married, not unlike how men will keep a beard once wed. In Islam, there's a story about how the tradition of hijab came about: a Muslim women was so beautiful she proved visually distracting to the angels so God commanded she, and all Muslim women from then on cover their beauty out in public.

If you would have religions 'fix' themselves to reflect modern values then you'd be having them all cease to exist. Religions aren't supposed to change with time since those changes would be written-in by people, not revealed by God. Examples of fixed religions include Mormonism which began with claims the Bible hadn't been translated properly, and Protestantism (Baptists, Methodists, Lutherns et al.) which 'fixed' Catholicism.

1 Islam is not a religion. It is an ideology masquerading as a religion.

3. Anyone with the slightest knowledge of the Koran knows that the wearing of the hijab (head scarf) come s from Koran 33:59. You stand corrected.

I agree with you completely on the nature of Islam (which is properly pronounced as "I slam," as in "I slam planes into buildings), but the unwashed masses of USMB just won't understand the intellectual bombshell you're dropping here, and will reject your flawless arguments out of hand. To prevent them from nitpicking and unfairly dismissing factual statements such as "Islam is not a religion," I'll pre-empt the inevitable conservatard bitching and ask you to expound upon the points I quoted above. Particularly, you should explain what an ideology is and how that differs from a religion, as well as what barriers Islam can never overcome that stand in its way to becoming a religion.

Further, post anything you have that elaborates on Qur'an 33:59, as it does not appear to contain the word "hijab" or the phrase "cover your hair".

Again, while I agree with you, it is important that we make our arguments against the poison that is religion as solid and unassailable as possible, otherwise the bigots here will be able to focus on some minor non-issue in order to "debunk" our assertions.

 

[Picaro]

You reveal a great deal of ignorance about Islam.

1 Islam is not a religion. It is an ideology masquerading as a religion. The world's longest running con job (and you fall for it). Most people throughout the world do not regard Islam to be a religion, and some countries don't either (Ex. Italy).

2. I first read the Koran in 1959. Since then, I've read 18 translations of it. Most recently, Arberry, Shakir, Ali, Pickthall, and Dawood.

3. Anyone with the slightest knowledge of the Koran knows that the wearing of the hijab (head scarf) come s from Koran 33:59. You stand corrected.

Re #1: Absolutely correct. It's an attempt to paste a religious veneer on what is essentially a political screed to justify murder, rape, and looting by a bandit chieftain, and set his descendants up as rulers of an empire.

Re #2:I've read a couple of others, but I prefer the Pickthall translations. I'm leery of versions that can be downloaded from the internet, especially recent English and European language translations, and wouldn't accept cites from them as legitimate. Some will, but I personally wouldn't, as it's a certainty in some versions that the wording has been changed or modified to mislead people who don't have the earlier ones.

Re #3: Again correct.

I seriously doubt even most of those claiming to be Muslims actually believe it, they just like what it says, i.e. it appeals to sociopaths and psychos. The 'culture' would collapse as soon as children are removed from an Islamic culture and would never return to it as followers.

 

[Picaro]

Christianity never needed 'fixing', it's a self-correcting philosophy. Christianity just ceased to be the exclusive purview of the State when literacy increased and more people not in the clergy monopolies could see immediately what the whole thing was about, i.e. there is no final State arbitrator between Man and God, and one must come to Christianity voluntarily.

 

[Lipush]

Today on Meet the Press, they did a story about Muslims in America. They showed Muslim kids playing baseball, wearing uniforms like Major league baseball teams. The showed Muslims wearing ordinary American clothes and doing ordinary American things.

They also showed Muslims wearing middle eastern clothes like the hijab (head scarf) on women. One Muslim women said that when wearing her hijab, she got stares from American non-Muslims. She believed those people feared and/or disliked her. She said "we are not blond haired and blue eyed."

EARTH TO MUSLIM WOMAN: It doesn't matter if you are blond or blue eyed. That's not why people are staring. Lots of Americans are not blond or blue eyed. Many are black haired and brown eyed. None of that matters. You're getting stares because you are MUSLIM, and you'd still get stares if you were blonde and blue eyed, and white as snow.

There's one basic reason why you are getting stares >> THE KORAN. As long as your fundamental guidebook of life is the Koran (which you show allegiance to by wearing that hijab), you will always get stares, be feared, be resented, and frankly be disliked. As long as you adhere to a guidebook that preaches hate against non-Muslims, preaches that non-Muslims should be killed, preaches that wives should be beaten, pedophilia, slavery, etc, etc., you will always be considered an outsider from American culture.

In a nutshell, your Muslim culture (the Koran) fits into American culture like a square peg in a round hole. It is completely opposite to American ideals, culture, morals, and laws.

FIX THE KORAN. Remove the immoral/illegal trash that pollutes it, and REFORM it (as Christians did with their religion centuries ago).

I know the big obstacle to that is that Muslims believe that the Koran is the word of God, and that the word of God cannot be changed. I also realize that this is why, in 1400 years, not one word of the Koran has been changed. If you all stick to that, we all will continue to be ripping at each other. You can count on non-acceptance of your hate book by Americans and your trash ideology that comes from it. The only way to peace for all of us is to FIX THE KORAN.

This is the 21st century. You all need to stop living in a medieval world and its ridiculous mindset and face up to the fact that this revered prophet (Mo the Pedophile) was nothing but a common criminal (with creative leadership abilities), who created this book for his own devious purposes, and pretended it was the word of God to shield him and his merry men from criticism. Reform Baby! Reform. Remove the bad stuff, and leave in the good parts.

Interesting.

However, Hijab is not MiddleEasten clothing, it's a religious clothing. It has nothing to do with the place of living.

 

[Lipush]

Today on Meet the Press, they did a story about Muslims in America. They showed Muslim kids playing baseball, wearing uniforms like Major league baseball teams. The showed Muslims wearing ordinary American clothes and doing ordinary American things.

They also showed Muslims wearing middle eastern clothes like the hijab (head scarf) on women. One Muslim women said that when wearing her hijab, she got stares from American non-Muslims. She believed those people feared and/or disliked her. She said "we are not blond haired and blue eyed."

EARTH TO MUSLIM WOMAN: It doesn't matter if you are blond or blue eyed. That's not why people are staring. Lots of Americans are not blond or blue eyed. Many are black haired and brown eyed. None of that matters. You're getting stares because you are MUSLIM, and you'd still get stares if you were blonde and blue eyed, and white as snow.

There's one basic reason why you are getting stares >> THE KORAN. As long as your fundamental guidebook of life is the Koran (which you show allegiance to by wearing that hijab), you will always get stares, be feared, be resented, and frankly be disliked. As long as you adhere to a guidebook that preaches hate against non-Muslims, preaches that non-Muslims should be killed, preaches that wives should be beaten, pedophilia, slavery, etc, etc., you will always be considered an outsider from American culture.

In a nutshell, your Muslim culture (the Koran) fits into American culture like a square peg in a round hole. It is completely opposite to American ideals, culture, morals, and laws.

FIX THE KORAN. Remove the immoral/illegal trash that pollutes it, and REFORM it (as Christians did with their religion centuries ago).

I know the big obstacle to that is that Muslims believe that the Koran is the word of God, and that the word of God cannot be changed. I also realize that this is why, in 1400 years, not one word of the Koran has been changed. If you all stick to that, we all will continue to be ripping at each other. You can count on non-acceptance of your hate book by Americans and your trash ideology that comes from it. The only way to peace for all of us is to FIX THE KORAN.

This is the 21st century. You all need to stop living in a medieval world and its ridiculous mindset and face up to the fact that this revered prophet (Mo the Pedophile) was nothing but a common criminal (with creative leadership abilities), who created this book for his own devious purposes, and pretended it was the word of God to shield him and his merry men from criticism. Reform Baby! Reform. Remove the bad stuff, and leave in the good parts.

You cannot ask them to fix the Quran, more than you can ask Christians to fix the Bible or Jews to fix their Torah.

If It's against American values, then this it how it is. It's up to them to balance the Quran with their Western surroundings, and if they're incapable of doing that, then, oh , well...

 

[protectionist]

Today on Meet the Press, they did a story about Muslims in America. They showed Muslim kids playing baseball, wearing uniforms like Major league baseball teams. The showed Muslims wearing ordinary American clothes and doing ordinary American things.

They also showed Muslims wearing middle eastern clothes like the hijab (head scarf) on women. One Muslim women said that when wearing her hijab, she got stares from American non-Muslims. She believed those people feared and/or disliked her. She said "we are not blond haired and blue eyed."

EARTH TO MUSLIM WOMAN: It doesn't matter if you are blond or blue eyed. That's not why people are staring. Lots of Americans are not blond or blue eyed. Many are black haired and brown eyed. None of that matters. You're getting stares because you are MUSLIM, and you'd still get stares if you were blonde and blue eyed, and white as snow.

There's one basic reason why you are getting stares >> THE KORAN. As long as your fundamental guidebook of life is the Koran (which you show allegiance to by wearing that hijab), you will always get stares, be feared, be resented, and frankly be disliked. As long as you adhere to a guidebook that preaches hate against non-Muslims, preaches that non-Muslims should be killed, preaches that wives should be beaten, pedophilia, slavery, etc, etc., you will always be considered an outsider from American culture.

In a nutshell, your Muslim culture (the Koran) fits into American culture like a square peg in a round hole. It is completely opposite to American ideals, culture, morals, and laws.

FIX THE KORAN. Remove the immoral/illegal trash that pollutes it, and REFORM it (as Christians did with their religion centuries ago).

I know the big obstacle to that is that Muslims believe that the Koran is the word of God, and that the word of God cannot be changed. I also realize that this is why, in 1400 years, not one word of the Koran has been changed. If you all stick to that, we all will continue to be ripping at each other. You can count on non-acceptance of your hate book by Americans and your trash ideology that comes from it. The only way to peace for all of us is to FIX THE KORAN.

This is the 21st century. You all need to stop living in a medieval world and its ridiculous mindset and face up to the fact that this revered prophet (Mo the Pedophile) was nothing but a common criminal (with creative leadership abilities), who created this book for his own devious purposes, and pretended it was the word of God to shield him and his merry men from criticism. Reform Baby! Reform. Remove the bad stuff, and leave in the good parts.

You cannot ask them to fix the Quran, more than you can ask Christians to fix the Bible or Jews to fix their Torah.

If It's against American values, then this it how it is. It's up to them to balance the Quran with their Western surroundings, and if they're incapable of doing that, then, oh , well...

I couldn't disagree more. There is no way to "balance" Islam with Western surroundings. One cannot balance an ideology that advocates (if not commands) the commission of serious crimes, with a society that outlaws those crimes. Simple as that.

You either adhere to Western values (reflected in Western law and mores), or you live outside of those values and laws. Muslims (by being Muslim) choose to live outside those values and laws. If they DO live within those values and laws, then they ARE NOT MUSLIMS, no matter how many times they go to a mosque, wear a hijab, pray 5 times a day, use footwashing basins, or whatever.

 

[Agit8r]

FIX THE KORAN. Remove the immoral/illegal trash that pollutes it, and REFORM it (as Christians did with their religion centuries ago).

While I agree that the Islamic religion is evil, i think you may have missed some news stories if you think that Christianity is all reformed.

 

[Mojo2]

You reveal a great deal of ignorance about Islam.

1 Islam is not a religion. It is an ideology masquerading as a religion. The world's longest running con job (and you fall for it). Most people throughout the world do not regard Islam to be a religion, and some countries don't either (Ex. Italy).

2. I first read the Koran in 1959. Since then, I've read 18 translations of it. Most recently, Arberry, Shakir, Ali, Pickthall, and Dawood.

3. Anyone with the slightest knowledge of the Koran knows that the wearing of the hijab (head scarf) come s from Koran 33:59. You stand corrected.

Re #1: Absolutely correct. It's an attempt to paste a religious veneer on what is essentially a political screed to justify murder, rape, and looting by a bandit chieftain, and set his descendants up as rulers of an empire.

Re #2:I've read a couple of others, but I prefer the Pickthall translations. I'm leery of versions that can be downloaded from the internet, especially recent English and European language translations, and wouldn't accept cites from them as legitimate. Some will, but I personally wouldn't, as it's a certainty in some versions that the wording has been changed or modified to mislead people who don't have the earlier ones.

Re #3: Again correct.

I seriously doubt even most of those claiming to be Muslims actually believe it, they just like what it says, i.e. it appeals to sociopaths and psychos. The 'culture' would collapse as soon as children are removed from an Islamic culture and would never return to it as followers.

Personally, I made sure I knew enough about Islam to know which side I was on and the nature of the Islamic Jihad and the threat it poses to free people everywhere and that's all I needed to know.

Those of you who love Islam so much as a religion or political movement and want to study it and learn about it and all are wished well!

I just don't think it is necessary to know more than the basics in order to proceed.

I just feel that those who study Islam and have a Koran and know all of the interpretations and etc. sometimes lose sight of the forest for the trees.

The thing about the Koran and Islam is that we don't want to be made victims of it or become captives to Muslims. Any knowledge about verses from the Koran or Hadith or Sura or what have you, are all well and good.

But that doesn't get you ANYWHERE when it comes to what is most important.

Which is, saving yourself and your loved ones and your culture and your government and your way of life from interference from or the dictates of Jihadists.

 

[protectionist]

FIX THE KORAN. Remove the immoral/illegal trash that pollutes it, and REFORM it (as Christians did with their religion centuries ago).

While I agree that the Islamic religion is evil, i think you may have missed some news stories if you think that Christianity is all reformed.

I don't recall having said that.

 

[LiberalMedia]

FIX THE KORAN. Remove the immoral/illegal trash that pollutes it, and REFORM it (as Christians did with their religion centuries ago).

While I agree that the Islamic religion is evil, i think you may have missed some news stories if you think that Christianity is all reformed.

I don't recall having said that.

Do you recall reading my above post, asking for a response for you which you never gave? It's OK; I'm sure you meant to reply to it and merely forgot, so here's a friendly, anti-Islamic reminder.

 

[Picaro]

You reveal a great deal of ignorance about Islam.

1 Islam is not a religion. It is an ideology masquerading as a religion. The world's longest running con job (and you fall for it). Most people throughout the world do not regard Islam to be a religion, and some countries don't either (Ex. Italy).

2. I first read the Koran in 1959. Since then, I've read 18 translations of it. Most recently, Arberry, Shakir, Ali, Pickthall, and Dawood.

3. Anyone with the slightest knowledge of the Koran knows that the wearing of the hijab (head scarf) come s from Koran 33:59. You stand corrected.

Re #1: Absolutely correct. It's an attempt to paste a religious veneer on what is essentially a political screed to justify murder, rape, and looting by a bandit chieftain, and set his descendants up as rulers of an empire.

Re #2:I've read a couple of others, but I prefer the Pickthall translations. I'm leery of versions that can be downloaded from the internet, especially recent English and European language translations, and wouldn't accept cites from them as legitimate. Some will, but I personally wouldn't, as it's a certainty in some versions that the wording has been changed or modified to mislead people who don't have the earlier ones.

Re #3: Again correct.

I seriously doubt even most of those claiming to be Muslims actually believe it, they just like what it says, i.e. it appeals to sociopaths and psychos. The 'culture' would collapse as soon as children are removed from an Islamic culture and would never return to it as followers.

Personally, I made sure I knew enough about Islam to know which side I was on and the nature of the Islamic Jihad and the threat it poses to free people everywhere and that's all I needed to know.

Those of you who love Islam so much as a religion or political movement and want to study it and learn about it and all are wished well!

I just don't think it is necessary to know more than the basics in order to proceed.

I just feel that those who study Islam and have a Koran and know all of the interpretations and etc. sometimes lose sight of the forest for the trees.

The thing about the Koran and Islam is that we don't want to be made victims of it or become captives to Muslims. Any knowledge about verses from the Koran or Hadith or Sura or what have you, are all well and good.

But that doesn't get you ANYWHERE when it comes to what is most important.

Which is, saving yourself and your loved ones and your culture and your government and your way of life from interference from or the dictates of Jihadists.

they should also be aware of how abrogation works when studying the Koran, and knowing which verses abrogate earlier verses, and be aware the Koran is not in chronological order, so knowing its timeline is important. That way they can't be misled by shills citing it and cherry picking verses.

 

[Picaro]

FIX THE KORAN. Remove the immoral/illegal trash that pollutes it, and REFORM it (as Christians did with their religion centuries ago).

While I agree that the Islamic religion is evil, i think you may have missed some news stories if you think that Christianity is all reformed.

Christianity doesn't need 'reforming', its pretty cohesive internally and logically as it is. What you mean is people need to stop ms-representing what the New Testament says. Christianity is already a self-correcting philosophy, which is why it was and is such a major influence.

 

[protectionist]

While I agree that the Islamic religion is evil, i think you may have missed some news stories if you think that Christianity is all reformed.

I don't recall having said that.

Do you recall reading my above post, asking for a response for you which you never gave? It's OK; I'm sure you meant to reply to it and merely forgot, so here's a friendly, anti-Islamic reminder.

What post ? Ask me again.

 

[protectionist]

With all due respect (since we agree in other subjects) you should read the Qur'an. Reading your post it's clear you haven't believing the requirement for women to wear a head-cover comes from it. It doesn't. There's actually no requirement to wear such attire. At least not in Qur'an. One I use looking stuff up, like this, is here:

English Translation of The Noble Quran - NobleQuran.com

Can't 'fix' Qur'an. Nor any other religous text since if you do, it ceases to be a 'divine revelation from God' and becomes a mundane revelation from Man. This is what we see with Christianity which 'fixed' Torah/Tanach making it all more warm and fuzzy. But Islam at its' core it simply a rehashing of Judaism. Without Judaism there could be no Islam or Christianity and much of what's in Islam is verbatim Judaism, especially where the various commandments are concerned.

Was an interesting line in some older movie-documentary about Islam I caught recently where someone was mentioning how God had revealed His will first to the Jews, but over time they quit listening, then again to the Christians who also quit listening, and now again to the Arabs via Islam.

As to the subject of a cover for women, that's just an extension of the calls for women to dress modestly seen in Judaism and Christianity. In both of these faiths, women will typically wear a cover when they're married, not unlike how men will keep a beard once wed. In Islam, there's a story about how the tradition of hijab came about: a Muslim women was so beautiful she proved visually distracting to the angels so God commanded she, and all Muslim women from then on cover their beauty out in public.

If you would have religions 'fix' themselves to reflect modern values then you'd be having them all cease to exist. Religions aren't supposed to change with time since those changes would be written-in by people, not revealed by God. Examples of fixed religions include Mormonism which began with claims the Bible hadn't been translated properly, and Protestantism (Baptists, Methodists, Lutherns et al.) which 'fixed' Catholicism.

1 Islam is not a religion. It is an ideology masquerading as a religion.

3. Anyone with the slightest knowledge of the Koran knows that the wearing of the hijab (head scarf) come s from Koran 33:59. You stand corrected.

I agree with you completely on the nature of Islam (which is properly pronounced as "I slam," as in "I slam planes into buildings), but the unwashed masses of USMB just won't understand the intellectual bombshell you're dropping here, and will reject your flawless arguments out of hand. To prevent them from nitpicking and unfairly dismissing factual statements such as "Islam is not a religion," I'll pre-empt the inevitable conservatard bitching and ask you to expound upon the points I quoted above. Particularly, you should explain what an ideology is and how that differs from a religion, as well as what barriers Islam can never overcome that stand in its way to becoming a religion.

Further, post anything you have that elaborates on Qur'an 33:59, as it does not appear to contain the word "hijab" or the phrase "cover your hair".

Again, while I agree with you, it is important that we make our arguments against the poison that is religion as solid and unassailable as possible, otherwise the bigots here will be able to focus on some minor non-issue in order to "debunk" our assertions.

Thanks coach. I appreciate your alliance, but I've been dealing with Islamapologists for many years, in and out of computer forums, and know exactly how to handle them. You might try reading through some of my past OP/threads on the subject.

Also, one would expect it to be understood the difference between an ideology and a religion, or they'd have no business posting in a computer forum. In a nutshell, what disqualifies Islam from the category of religion is my dictionary's defintion that requires it to have a "code of ethics". Islam is more like a code of UNethics.

33:59 doesn't mention the word hijab, but nevertheless it is this sura that the covering up of women (jijab, niqab, etc) comes from.

 

[Coyote]

CDZ is not meant to be a personal soapbox for a person to bash an entire group- it's meant for a real discussion free of insult and flaming. This OP is starts out with insults and flames. Thread closed.