West Bank rabbi: Jews can kill Gentiles who threaten Israel

[Book of Jeremiah]

I see the article is from ha'aretz, and is new. Then I wonder why the Ha'aretz bring this up again, after this all issue was long closed

Closed as in no longer news but without resolve, If some jews believe they can kill our children without sin, can then we not kill those who would kill our children, first?

This is so ridiculous. All over one person writing a book! So what? You could write one and say the same thing tomorrow! Does that mean you speak for the entire Palestinian population? No. It does not. You speak only for yourself just as the author did in that case. Nothing more and certainly not something to base your evil intentions - even to justify your evil intentions for the innocent children of ANY people. How dare you. You are surely headed for hell lady. You need to repent.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

et al,

Every group has their share of fanatics and crazies.

To whom do you refer, West Bank rabbi: Jews can kill Gentiles who threaten Israel - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper
(COMMENT)

What we should be concerned about is the number of people who follow his fanatical beliefs and pronouncements. (Which I suspect is very few.)

Most Respectfully,
R

good excuse. ya wanna talk about itamar?

he is a chabad rabbi. they are very big in the west bank.

i think hitler began his career as a fanatic and crazy. maybe some people even dismissed him as such.

Actually Hitler was the Grand Mufti of Islams best buddy. People keep company with those who are like minded. Are you suggesting the Grand Mufti of Islam who took photos of his beloved friend, Adolph Hitler was a fanatic and crazy?

 

[Lipush]

I see the article is from ha'aretz, and is new. Then I wonder why the Ha'aretz bring this up again, after this all issue was long closed

Closed as in no longer news but without resolve, If some jews believe they can kill our children without sin, can then we not kill those who would kill our children, first?

Sound more like your trying to bring excuses on for bullying Jews.

Killing helpless and children is always a sin in Judaism, no matter what, and any believing Jew knows that and respects that.

 

[irosie91]

I see the article is from ha'aretz, and is new. Then I wonder why the Ha'aretz bring this up again, after this all issue was long closed

Closed as in no longer news but without resolve, If some jews believe they can kill our children without sin, can then we not kill those who would kill our children, first?

Sound more like your trying to bring excuses on for bullying Jews.

Killing helpless and children is always a sin in Judaism, no matter what, and any believing Jew knows that and respects that.

they are desperate for a LIBEL----so they twist and turn the words of a rabbi who
did express himself in a very careless manner. Of course he never advocated anything
like the islamic POV ---which advocated the murder of jewish infants ANYWHERE IN THE
WORLD AS A GLORIFICATION OF allah, isa and the rapist pig A POV deach has yet
to repudiate

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Why should " Good Christians" threaten Israel? I'm sure you wouldn't object to Palestinians killing Israelis who threaten " Palestine" Typical ignorant PRO- Palestinian double standard

i have not one single doubt Jos would object in the most strenuous of manners to gentiles killing jewish babies because of some imagined future threat to israel.

if you can't see the similarities between your post, shapira's praching, and the acts of hitler, well i refer you to roccos post where he mentions "fanatics and crazies".

let's see. we are having a discussion about a rabbi who advocates killing gentile babies because they may pose a danger to the israeli state and why. is it so hard to say "i unequivocabbly condemn the teachings of rabbi shapira. he is representing the jewish state in the most disreputable of ways." instead, we are mitigating it.

Deach you are full of shit---- you have a citation to demonstrate that any of these guys
advocated going around killing gentile babies as you are now claiming?

you have jewish adolescents dancing in the streets because someone grabbed a four
year old by the hair and blew her brains out?

you see jews burning hundreds of people in BON FIRES as your coreligionists have?

with happy women tossing the infants into the flames?

There have been people who advocated mass killings of children----but it has never been
jews------look to your own sick history

Yes, good advice for Deach.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I see the article is from ha'aretz, and is new. Then I wonder why the Ha'aretz bring this up again, after this all issue was long closed

Closed as in no longer news but without resolve, If some jews believe they can kill our children without sin, can then we not kill those who would kill our children, first?

Sound more like your trying to bring excuses on for bullying Jews.

Killing helpless and children is always a sin in Judaism, no matter what, and any believing Jew knows that and respects that.

Exactly what struck me when I first read it. This person is trying to justify her own evil intentions of her own wicked heart. How dark is that? Scary. I feel scared for people like that because I do believe it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of G-d when He is angry! Yikes to her. Hope she listens to wisdom and gets the hate out of her heart. Before it is too late.

 

[Annika55]

I see the article is from ha'aretz, and is new. Then I wonder why the Ha'aretz bring this up again, after this all issue was long closed[/quote]

The date for the article appears as Nov. 2009

 

[irosie91]

Closed as in no longer news but without resolve, If some jews believe they can kill our children without sin, can then we not kill those who would kill our children, first?

Sound more like your trying to bring excuses on for bullying Jews.

Killing helpless and children is always a sin in Judaism, no matter what, and any believing Jew knows that and respects that.

Exactly what struck me when I first read it. This person is trying to justify her own evil intentions of her own wicked heart. How dark is that? Scary. I feel scared for people like that because I do believe it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of G-d when He is angry! Yikes to her. Hope she listens to wisdom and gets the hate out of her heart. Before it is too late.

I learned about islam and that which muslims teach their children at home and in
the mosques----circa 1970 The bottom line is "jews, christians and hindus are
TRYING TO DESTROY ISLAM and all muslims" The prime directive for muslims is
********DEFEND ISLAAAM********

 

[Annika55]

Seal: i have not one single doubt Jos would object in the most strenuous of manners to gentiles killing jewish babies because of some imagined future threat to israel.

if you can't see the similarities between your post, shapira's praching, and the acts of hitler, well i refer you to roccos post where he mentions "fanatics and crazies".

let's see. we are having a discussion about a rabbi who advocates killing gentile babies because they may pose a danger to the israeli state and why. is it so hard to say "i unequivocabbly condemn the teachings of rabbi shapira. he is representing the jewish state in the most disreputable of ways." instead, we are mitigating it.

I certainly condemn these teachings of Rabbi Shapira and the other extremist rabbis who support his position. I believe the ultra religious settlers are creating enormous obstacles to any real solution to this conflict. My biggest problem with Israel is that I cannot support non- secular states. The religious right, in my opinion, has far too much control
over the lives of Israelies, many of whom are not religious.

 

[sealadaigh]

Seal: i have not one single doubt Jos would object in the most strenuous of manners to gentiles killing jewish babies because of some imagined future threat to israel.

if you can't see the similarities between your post, shapira's praching, and the acts of hitler, well i refer you to roccos post where he mentions "fanatics and crazies".

let's see. we are having a discussion about a rabbi who advocates killing gentile babies because they may pose a danger to the israeli state and why. is it so hard to say "i unequivocabbly condemn the teachings of rabbi shapira. he is representing the jewish state in the most disreputable of ways." instead, we are mitigating it.

I certainly condemn these teachings of Rabbi Shapira and the other extremist rabbis who support his position. I believe the ultra religious settlers are creating enormous obstacles to any real solution to this conflict. My biggest problem with Israel is that I cannot support non- secular states. The religious right, in my opinion, has far too much control
over the lives of Israelies, many of whom are not religious.

thank you so much, annika.

 

[toastman]

Every normal Jew and Israeli condemns what this Rabbi has said.

 

[irosie91]

I am all for getting rid of ALL non-secular states allowing some and disallowing
others------defies my all time fave concept of "fair"----to wit EQUITY When all
non-secular states are gone and I can go sight seeing in mecca------and visit the hindu
temples there -----I will be glad to withdraw my support for Israel

 

[irosie91]

Every normal Jew and Israeli condemns what this Rabbi has said.

I might condemn it too----but I really do not know exactly what HE SAID ---or wrote ---
or who he is in terms of INFLUENCE For all I know he is the town drunk -----
or schizophrenic I do know that the "KING's TORAH" thing was pulled off the
shelves in Israeli bookstores which suggests to me that whoever wrote that thing
is not in GOOD STANDING AND HIGHLY ADMIRED in Israel ---in general

anyone have a citation regarding my issues?

 

[proudveteran06]

Book by Rabbi Yitzhak Shapiro of Yitzhar permits even the murder of babies and children who pose threat.

West Bank rabbi: Jews can kill Gentiles who threaten Israel - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper

Why should " Good Christians" threaten Israel? I'm sure you wouldn't object to Palestinians killing Israelis who threaten " Palestine" Typical ignorant PRO- Palestinian double standard

i have not one single doubt Jos would object in the most strenuous of manners to gentiles killing jewish babies because of some imagined future threat to israel.


Documentation please
if you can't see the similarities between your post, shapira's praching, and the acts of hitler, well i refer you to roccos post where he mentions "fanatics and crazies".

let's see. we are having a discussion about a rabbi who advocates killing gentile babies because they may pose a danger to the israeli state and why. is it so hard to say "i unequivocabbly condemn the teachings of rabbi shapira. he is representing the jewish state in the most disreputable of ways." instead, we are mitigating it.

Where is your " anger" against Muslims who kill Christians and enslave them for practicing their " religion?" Ever hear " Actions speak louder then words?" Have you ever condemned what your Church says about Jews; The Hate and Anti- Semitism is spews? Of course not.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Every normal Jew and Israeli condemns what this Rabbi has said.

I might condemn it too----but I really do not know exactly what HE SAID ---or wrote ---
or who he is in terms of INFLUENCE For all I know he is the town drunk -----
or schizophrenic I do know that the "KING's TORAH" thing was pulled off the
shelves in Israeli bookstores which suggests to me that whoever wrote that thing
is not in GOOD STANDING AND HIGHLY ADMIRED in Israel ---in general

anyone have a citation regarding my issues?

It was not well received, no one was interested and it was pulled also I believe. It was a non issue in the christian world as we have had every kind of book written by whoever claims to be a christian. Not a big deal but of course to these people they are determined to make it into something more. It was barely a blip on the radar screen the first time the story came out years ago. Its old news.

 

[Annika55]

Irosie posted:

I am all for getting rid of ALL non-secular states allowing some and disallowing
others------defies my all time fave concept of "fair"----to wit EQUITY When all
non-secular states are gone and I can go sight seeing in mecca------and visit the hindu
temples there -----I will be glad to withdraw my support for Israel
---------
I would also like to see all non-secular states reinvented. I do not enjoy seeing Israel included with a group of dictatorial theocracies. I would like to see Israel maintain its Jewish culture (to the extent that the US is predominantly a Christain culture) without the minority of religious extremists exerting their influence and control over more secular
Israelis. Frankly, I believe religion is a community, familial and personal experience. I do not believe it belongs in public schools or in government venues in a democracy. So yes, Rose, I find all states that allow a particular religion to pervade both public and private life to be offensive.

 

[Annika55]

I cannot post url's. This article is from Ha'aretz.

Israel's AG closes probe into authors of allegedly racist book.
Investigation of two West Bank rabbis who wrote a religious text, Torat Hamelech fails to produce necessary evidence on which to base an indictment for incitement to racism and violence, AG says.
By Tomer Zarchin | May.29, 2012 |

Attorney General Yehuda Weinstein announced on Monday that he is closing the investigation of two revered West Bank rabbis who wrote a religious text, Torat Hamelech (The King's Torah ), which argues there are times when Jews are allowed to kill gentiles who pose no physical threat of violence. The authors are rabbis Yitzhak Shapira and Yosef Elitzur, while the text was endorsed by leading Chabad Rabbi Yitzhak Ginzburg and Kiryat Arba Rabbi Dov Lior.

Weinstein wrote that the investigation failed to produce the necessary evidence on which to base an indictment for incitement to racism and violence against the book's authors and supporters. "Evidence issues enjoin the closing of this case," wrote Weinstein. "Negative responses to this book can be made at the public level."

The attorney general's decision stirred vehement criticism on Monday, particularly on the part of complainants who turned to the High Court of Justice with demands that the rabbis responsible for the text be indicted, and that the book's dissemination be blocked. The High Court petition is still pending. The complainants contend that Weinstein's decision creates a precedent, one never intended by the country's legislative branch - that rabbis can incite in a violent or racist fashion with impunity.

The book Torat Hamelech, published in 2009, is described by its authors as a discussion of circumstances in which Jewish law permits killing in times of war and peace. Among other judgments, the book states: "When we approach a gentile who has violated the seven laws of Noah and kill him out of devotion to the upholding of these Noahide laws, this is not forbidden." Elsewhere, the book holds that "a person who encourages war provides strength to a king and his soldiers who persist with the war. Thus any person in a kingdom who encourages soldiers or tolerates their actions can be considered a dangerous pursuer [rodef], and can be killed." In February 2011 a decision was reached to open an investigation of the authors and those who endorsed it publicly. Following this decision, Shapira and Elitzur were questioned. Lior was also summoned for questioning, but ignored the summons for months, and eventually announced he would not answer it.

On Monday, Assistant State Prosecutor Shlomi Abramson wrote to those who complained to Weinstein about this text, including Adalah - the Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel, and the Israel Religious Action Center. Abramsom's letter indicates that Shapira and Elitzur invoked their right to remain silent when questioned by police. However, the two detailed the rationale behind the book in a letter they sent to the Education Ministry's director general, explaining it is a "book about Jewish law which reviews and explicates Torah sources. The book does not dictate how people should act; this is not a book that conveys orders for action, and is instead a book for study and discussion written in terminology used in yeshiva discourse."

The authors claimed their book states explicitly that "the killing of a gentile is forbidden by Torah," but they immediately added:"the text indicates that harm can only be brought to a person who does not uphold the seven laws of Noah, and such harm can only come about in special circumstances."

 

[Billo_Really]

"The king's Torah" issue has been told many times in the past? Why bringing this up now as something new?

Do you believe baby's are a threat to Israel?

 

[Billo_Really]

Every normal Jew and Israeli condemns what this Rabbi has said.

I knew you had it (humanity) in you somewhere!

 

[Lipush]

I cannot post url's. This article is from Ha'aretz.

Israel's AG closes probe into authors of allegedly racist book.
Investigation of two West Bank rabbis who wrote a religious text, Torat Hamelech fails to produce necessary evidence on which to base an indictment for incitement to racism and violence, AG says.
By Tomer Zarchin | May.29, 2012 |

Attorney General Yehuda Weinstein announced on Monday that he is closing the investigation of two revered West Bank rabbis who wrote a religious text, Torat Hamelech (The King's Torah ), which argues there are times when Jews are allowed to kill gentiles who pose no physical threat of violence. The authors are rabbis Yitzhak Shapira and Yosef Elitzur, while the text was endorsed by leading Chabad Rabbi Yitzhak Ginzburg and Kiryat Arba Rabbi Dov Lior.

Weinstein wrote that the investigation failed to produce the necessary evidence on which to base an indictment for incitement to racism and violence against the book's authors and supporters. "Evidence issues enjoin the closing of this case," wrote Weinstein. "Negative responses to this book can be made at the public level."

The attorney general's decision stirred vehement criticism on Monday, particularly on the part of complainants who turned to the High Court of Justice with demands that the rabbis responsible for the text be indicted, and that the book's dissemination be blocked. The High Court petition is still pending. The complainants contend that Weinstein's decision creates a precedent, one never intended by the country's legislative branch - that rabbis can incite in a violent or racist fashion with impunity.

The book Torat Hamelech, published in 2009, is described by its authors as a discussion of circumstances in which Jewish law permits killing in times of war and peace. Among other judgments, the book states: "When we approach a gentile who has violated the seven laws of Noah and kill him out of devotion to the upholding of these Noahide laws, this is not forbidden." Elsewhere, the book holds that "a person who encourages war provides strength to a king and his soldiers who persist with the war. Thus any person in a kingdom who encourages soldiers or tolerates their actions can be considered a dangerous pursuer [rodef], and can be killed." In February 2011 a decision was reached to open an investigation of the authors and those who endorsed it publicly. Following this decision, Shapira and Elitzur were questioned. Lior was also summoned for questioning, but ignored the summons for months, and eventually announced he would not answer it.

On Monday, Assistant State Prosecutor Shlomi Abramson wrote to those who complained to Weinstein about this text, including Adalah - the Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel, and the Israel Religious Action Center. Abramsom's letter indicates that Shapira and Elitzur invoked their right to remain silent when questioned by police. However, the two detailed the rationale behind the book in a letter they sent to the Education Ministry's director general, explaining it is a "book about Jewish law which reviews and explicates Torah sources. The book does not dictate how people should act; this is not a book that conveys orders for action, and is instead a book for study and discussion written in terminology used in yeshiva discourse."

The authors claimed their book states explicitly that "the killing of a gentile is forbidden by Torah," but they immediately added:"the text indicates that harm can only be brought to a person who does not uphold the seven laws of Noah, and such harm can only come about in special circumstances."