Well I guess Killing Americans with due process is OK

[nodoginnafight]

Anyone, Americans included, that join al Qaeda and moves to their remote camps inside of other countries and helps plan strikes, recruit others for their war, or just gives the enemy their knowledge of America is fair game for a missile up their traitorous asses.

Ok do you have any evidence that this 16 was doing any of that stuff?

A previous link suggested that he was not and administration officials called this "a mistake ... a bad one."

So what information do you have that they did not?

None. I wasn't specifically speaking about the 16 year old. However, according to one source the terrorist who was supposedly the target and near the boy was defiantly doing that stuff.

Well I don't think anyone is shedding any tears for terrorists, but that isn't really what folks here are discussing. We were discussing the 16-year-old.
Now, I know that these terrorists start 'em out pretty young and the fact that he was 16 doesn't mean that he wasn't involved.

But so far, I haven't seen anyone who can produce anything to indicate this kid was involved in terrorism.

 

[Freewill]

You are grossly oversimplifying a long and complicated process with many checks and balances.

I will say these operations should be moved out of the scope of the CIA and into the scope of the US military.

The CIA should not be performing war fighting or even "assassinations".

Subterfuge and Intelligence Gathering should be it.

I'm not sure that's possible. The CIA is gather the intelligence as to where these people are, and it seems that in most instances they move about. It appears to be pretty "real time." Conversely, Osama seemed to have a "safe house" provided by Pakistan. He was pretty stationary. And they had to have a positive ID to show the world.

I missed it, when did they show the world the positive id?

 

[bendog]

I will say these operations should be moved out of the scope of the CIA and into the scope of the US military.

The CIA should not be performing war fighting or even "assassinations".

Subterfuge and Intelligence Gathering should be it.

I'm not sure that's possible. The CIA is gather the intelligence as to where these people are, and it seems that in most instances they move about. It appears to be pretty "real time." Conversely, Osama seemed to have a "safe house" provided by Pakistan. He was pretty stationary. And they had to have a positive ID to show the world.

I missed it, when did they show the world the positive id?

That's true. They just took his DNA and dumped him overboard. But they've got the DNA.

 

[Freewill]

The kid's dad was a terrorist who took the kid to Yemen. It was a mistake, and they thought they were shooting at someone else. But it's not like we carpet bombed a city. I think the dad can have the blame on that one.

The dad was already dead. You are sounding a whole lot like Gibbs, which ain't a good thing. I guess what you are saying is that Americans shouldn't go to Yemen and take their kids, they could all end up dead.

 

[Freewill]

So if Jeb Bush gets elected president then he pretty much can kill anyone he wants as long as the CIA says they are a threat. Interesting.

You are grossly oversimplifying a long and complicated process with many checks and balances.

Another excuse.

 

[bendog]

The kid's dad was a terrorist who took the kid to Yemen. It was a mistake, and they thought they were shooting at someone else. But it's not like we carpet bombed a city. I think the dad can have the blame on that one.

The dad was already dead. You are sounding a whole lot like Gibbs, which ain't a good thing. I guess what you are saying is that Americans shouldn't go to Yemen and take their kids, they could all end up dead.

Not at all. But the kid wouldn't have been in Yemen unless his terrorist father took him there. And yeah, it's pretty damn dangerous to be in Yemen unless you are a terrorist if you're an American. It was a mistake. The CIA was trying to kill an actual terrorist. But it's not like the kid was a sophomore sitting at lunch table in an Omaha high school. THAT would be a bit different.

 

[Freewill]

I'm not sure that's possible. The CIA is gather the intelligence as to where these people are, and it seems that in most instances they move about. It appears to be pretty "real time." Conversely, Osama seemed to have a "safe house" provided by Pakistan. He was pretty stationary. And they had to have a positive ID to show the world.

I missed it, when did they show the world the positive id?

That's true. They just took his DNA and dumped him overboard. But they've got the DNA.

And you KNOW this how?

 

[Freewill]

The kid's dad was a terrorist who took the kid to Yemen. It was a mistake, and they thought they were shooting at someone else. But it's not like we carpet bombed a city. I think the dad can have the blame on that one.

The dad was already dead. You are sounding a whole lot like Gibbs, which ain't a good thing. I guess what you are saying is that Americans shouldn't go to Yemen and take their kids, they could all end up dead.

Not at all. But the kid wouldn't have been in Yemen unless his terrorist father took him there. And yeah, it's pretty damn dangerous to be in Yemen unless you are a terrorist if you're an American. It was a mistake. The CIA was trying to kill an actual terrorist. But it's not like the kid was a sophomore sitting at lunch table in an Omaha high school. THAT would be a bit different.

All we know for fact is that a 16 year old boy was killed in an ally country while eating dinner with his cousin who was also killed. We also know that the WH said it was a big mistake. What was a big mistake? Why no review why no investigation? My thinking is that no one really cares. We took a big gun and blew the brains out of the kid then said oops.

 

[Freewill]

I realize that many on the right do not care what the ACLU or the UN thinks but the left wing liberals usually do care a lot.

UN report calls for independent investigations of drone attacks

UN report calls for independent investigations of drone attacks | World news | theguardian.com

 

[bendog]

The dad was already dead. You are sounding a whole lot like Gibbs, which ain't a good thing. I guess what you are saying is that Americans shouldn't go to Yemen and take their kids, they could all end up dead.

Not at all. But the kid wouldn't have been in Yemen unless his terrorist father took him there. And yeah, it's pretty damn dangerous to be in Yemen unless you are a terrorist if you're an American. It was a mistake. The CIA was trying to kill an actual terrorist. But it's not like the kid was a sophomore sitting at lunch table in an Omaha high school. THAT would be a bit different.

All we know for fact is that a 16 year old boy was killed in an ally country while eating dinner with his cousin who was also killed. We also know that the WH said it was a big mistake. What was a big mistake? Why no review why no investigation? My thinking is that no one really cares. We took a big gun and blew the brains out of the kid then said oops.

LOL. Well Yemen appears more like Afghanstan than Canada, but be that as it may. I might agree with you if the heirs of the kid brought something along the lines of a wrongful death suit against the US, arguing we were negligent in not making sure we were really killing terrorists.

But that is NOT what the law suit alleged. It said the US does not have the power to kill enemy combatants, who happen to be Americans, but who choose to remove themselves from the US where they can be arrested and criminally tried for trying to kill us. The Court said that was not a matter for courts to decide. I'm ok with that.

 

[BlindBoo]

The kid's dad was a terrorist who took the kid to Yemen. It was a mistake, and they thought they were shooting at someone else. But it's not like we carpet bombed a city. I think the dad can have the blame on that one.

The dad was already dead. You are sounding a whole lot like Gibbs, which ain't a good thing. I guess what you are saying is that Americans shouldn't go to Yemen and take their kids, they could all end up dead.

<insert snippit> and hang out near terrorist plotting to kill Americans, <end snippit>

I'll say it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You take up arms against the United States of America ON FOREIGN SOIL as a part of a terror unit and you fucking die.

Period.

So do you have any evidence that this guy did that?
Or any evidence that he didn't?

Does not matter. He was in the wrong place with the wrong guys.

 

[BlindBoo]

The kid's dad was a terrorist who took the kid to Yemen. It was a mistake, and they thought they were shooting at someone else. But it's not like we carpet bombed a city. I think the dad can have the blame on that one.

The dad was already dead. You are sounding a whole lot like Gibbs, which ain't a good thing. I guess what you are saying is that Americans shouldn't go to Yemen and take their kids, they could all end up dead.

Not at all. But the kid wouldn't have been in Yemen unless his terrorist father took him there. And yeah, it's pretty damn dangerous to be in Yemen unless you are a terrorist if you're an American. It was a mistake. The CIA was trying to kill an actual terrorist. But it's not like the kid was a sophomore sitting at lunch table in an Omaha high school. THAT would be a bit different.

The boy lived there since he was 7.

"Abdulrahman was born in Denver. He lived in America until he was 7, then came to live with me in Yemen. He was a typical teenager"

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/18/opinion/the-drone-that-killed-my-grandson.html?_r=0

 

[Freewill]

The kid's dad was a terrorist who took the kid to Yemen. It was a mistake, and they thought they were shooting at someone else. But it's not like we carpet bombed a city. I think the dad can have the blame on that one.

The dad was already dead. You are sounding a whole lot like Gibbs, which ain't a good thing. I guess what you are saying is that Americans shouldn't go to Yemen and take their kids, they could all end up dead.

<insert snippit> and hang out near terrorist plotting to kill Americans, <end snippit>

I'll say it.

So what other terrorists were killed? Why did the ACLU file suit?

 

[Freewill]

You take up arms against the United States of America ON FOREIGN SOIL as a part of a terror unit and you fucking die.

Period.

So do you have any evidence that this guy did that?
Or any evidence that he didn't?

Does not matter. He was in the wrong place with the wrong guys.

Please provide the judicial process that determined these facts. Or all you saying all brown skinned Yemens are fair game because there could be a terrorist near?

 

[bendog]

The dad was already dead. You are sounding a whole lot like Gibbs, which ain't a good thing. I guess what you are saying is that Americans shouldn't go to Yemen and take their kids, they could all end up dead.

Not at all. But the kid wouldn't have been in Yemen unless his terrorist father took him there. And yeah, it's pretty damn dangerous to be in Yemen unless you are a terrorist if you're an American. It was a mistake. The CIA was trying to kill an actual terrorist. But it's not like the kid was a sophomore sitting at lunch table in an Omaha high school. THAT would be a bit different.

The boy lived there since he was 7.

"Abdulrahman was born in Denver. He lived in America until he was 7, then came to live with me in Yemen. He was a typical teenager"

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/18/opinion/the-drone-that-killed-my-grandson.html?_r=0

That's the strange thing, and what the CIA may actually be covering up. Initially they thought the father was a moderate they could work with. He ended up in Yemen in 04 which would have put the kid at age 7 then. At some pt, Dad allegedly got involved with some terror acts. He was imprisoned. Negroponte was OK with that, and if there was ever a dirtier American, I think you'd have to go back to the "Indian Wars." He may have become "radicalized" in Yemen prisons, and God only knows what happened there. At any rate, I don't see any doubt that he was encouraging terror attacks on America when the CIA killed him.

I don't think there's any doubt that there is "collateral" damage in drone attacks. From what I've read, our attacks on the Taliban are now on pretty low level guys, and for me, that's hard to morally justify. But, the two guys in Yemen, it seems to me there's no question they were dangers to us, and there was no way to arrest them.

Again, if there was some move to basically sue us for negligence in killing an innocent American .... I would be willing to listen. But I don't see that that was the issue here.

 

[rdean]

The American Civil Liberties Union and the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) filed a lawsuit in 2012 challenging the government&#8217;s targeted killing of three U.S. citizens in drone strikes far from any armed conflict zone. Oral argument was held in July 2013 in Washington, and the court dismissed the case in April 2014.

https://www.aclu.org/national-security/al-aulaqi-v-panetta

So if Jeb Bush gets elected president then he pretty much can kill anyone he wants as long as the CIA says they are a threat. Interesting.

(Reuters) - Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year -- one every 12 minutes -- in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis released on Thursday.

Study links 45,000 U.S. deaths to lack of insurance | Reuters



But I thought Republicans like to see American die. Isn't that why the fight against health care and shout "let him die" at their political debates?

 

[Pete7469]

The American Civil Liberties Union and the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) filed a lawsuit in 2012 challenging the government’s targeted killing of three U.S. citizens in drone strikes far from any armed conflict zone. Oral argument was held in July 2013 in Washington, and the court dismissed the case in April 2014.

https://www.aclu.org/national-security/al-aulaqi-v-panetta

So if Jeb Bush gets elected president then he pretty much can kill anyone he wants as long as the CIA says they are a threat. Interesting.

No, because the media will suddenly become appalled at "the unprecedented abuse of power".

I'm hoping for a decent president this time around though (Rand Paul), so that will be a moot issue.

 

[Freewill]

Not at all. But the kid wouldn't have been in Yemen unless his terrorist father took him there. And yeah, it's pretty damn dangerous to be in Yemen unless you are a terrorist if you're an American. It was a mistake. The CIA was trying to kill an actual terrorist. But it's not like the kid was a sophomore sitting at lunch table in an Omaha high school. THAT would be a bit different.

All we know for fact is that a 16 year old boy was killed in an ally country while eating dinner with his cousin who was also killed. We also know that the WH said it was a big mistake. What was a big mistake? Why no review why no investigation? My thinking is that no one really cares. We took a big gun and blew the brains out of the kid then said oops.

LOL. Well Yemen appears more like Afghanstan than Canada, but be that as it may. I might agree with you if the heirs of the kid brought something along the lines of a wrongful death suit against the US, arguing we were negligent in not making sure we were really killing terrorists.

But that is NOT what the law suit alleged. It said the US does not have the power to kill enemy combatants, who happen to be Americans, but who choose to remove themselves from the US where they can be arrested and criminally tried for trying to kill us. The Court said that was not a matter for courts to decide. I'm ok with that.

Say what?: Families of US citizens killed in drone strike file wrongful death lawsuit

The truth is as I first said, no one cares about a brown skinned 16 year old. He is just a casualty of war. An honest mistake.

 

[Pete7469]

My, my. When the 'Conservatives' are not cheering for Putin, they are crying over dead terrorists.

Since when is the ACLU conservative?

Be consistent.

If you would be outraged if Bush did this, you should be outraged now.

To much partisan ethics these days.

How many of the same folks who opposed the war in Iraq supported war with Syria ONLY because their man was going to look like an ignoramus with his "red line" if we didn't.

And how many of the folks who secretly wanted to topple Bashir opposed it just to make Obama look like an ignoramus?

And perhaps that is the case for some here.

But, the rule of law, under which we all must abide, clearly states that no citizen shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law.

It is not up for debate...that is the Constitutional threshold.

So killing Confederate soldiers during the American Civil War was "unconstitutional" ????

Really ????

When someone declares war on the United States of America - it's open season. MHO.

Very infrequent that I agree with this bed wetter.

However there is truth to that. When 1000's of flea bitten sheep fuckers dedicate themselves to killing you and your countrymen, you're at war whether or not you declare it or even like it.

However in regards to US Citizens no one should be targeted with such ordinance unless they've been tried in a US court, convicted of treason, and sentenced to death. It should also have to pass through the judiciary if these methods are ok.

I felt Iraq was a legitamite operation. Hussien was as evil a mother fucker as hitler, he was a threat to stability in the region, and a threat to our people. Our containment efforts were costly and had to end at some point.

The world is better off with his demise.

However we should be disengaging from the ME. It's a shithole. We don't need the hassle. Let the Russians fuck with them. They're not worried about anyone's sensitivity.