CDZ We should charge 431.50 dollars in order to vote, people will then take it seriously...

That's a very specific amount. Can I assume there is some other subject where a person or persons had to pay $431.50 for something?


You are correct...that is the minimum fee to get a permit to exercise another Right...the Right to own a gun......and many here think that this is an amount that is no big deal to pay for that Right....and that is the minimum...in truth, the amount is far higher...
Guns only shoot things. Its not really that big of a deal. However, now that you mention it I now recall that in some form or another guns and the 2nd amendment is always on your mind. I should have known better.


No, guns don't only shoot things....most defensive uses of guns in this country do not end up with the gun being fired....in fact, that is the majority of self defense outcomes...they save lives without taking lives...so you are wrong...

And again, back to the topic......people should be required to pay 431.50 to vote in elections...it only makes sense...if we want to fix our elections...right?
Wrong.

If you were right then it would be constitutionally legal to charge people to vote.


Why shouldn't we change the Amendment and make people pay to vote.....that would make sure that only the really interested and most informed and the most concerned about the country would vote...right?

When I was a young worker in texas in the early 1960's, I noticed that the poll tax could make the difference between eating or not eating that day for many workers. I just thought instinctively that it was wrong. The right to vote shouldn't be for sale, although I do know the founders of the country wanted only propertied men voting and that's been amended too.
 
People are always complaining that Americans don't understand what they are voting for and don't take voting seriously....so.....we should start charging 431.50 to vote in every election...that way only those people who are really serious about the fate of the country will actually vote...it will weed out the unserious, and the uninformed.....

Right?

If the uninformed weren't allowed to vote, you would be disenfranchised.

Poll taxes are unconstitutional. Thanks for playing.


Why should Poll Taxes be unconsitutional....can you explain that for the reading audience? Who said the uninformed were not allowed to vote.......under this plan, they can vote, they simply have to pay 431.50 to do it...........

And I do believe this is the CDZ...and you just violated the rules...please...pay attention to where you are posting....

Poll taxes are unconstitutional because the states ratified the 24th amendment.


So we do a new Amendment...right...? And change that....

If a new amendment is created and ratified by the states, sure, that will change. I don't see it happening any time soon, but that's the way to make poll taxes legally acceptable if that is your goal.
 
People are always complaining that Americans don't understand what they are voting for and don't take voting seriously....so.....we should start charging 431.50 to vote in every election...that way only those people who are really serious about the fate of the country will actually vote...it will weed out the unserious, and the uninformed.....

Right?

If the uninformed weren't allowed to vote, you would be disenfranchised.

Poll taxes are unconstitutional. Thanks for playing.


Why should Poll Taxes be unconsitutional....can you explain that for the reading audience? Who said the uninformed were not allowed to vote.......under this plan, they can vote, they simply have to pay 431.50 to do it...........

And I do believe this is the CDZ...and you just violated the rules...please...pay attention to where you are posting....

Poll taxes are unconstitutional because the states ratified the 24th amendment.


So we do a new Amendment...right...? And change that....

If a new amendment is created and ratified by the states, sure, that will change. I don't see it happening any time soon, but that's the way to make poll taxes legally acceptable if that is your goal.


No....I don't believe you can charge a fee to exercise a Right...if you do it is no longer a Right and is simply something granted buy those people in power....
 
However, now that you mention it I now recall that in some form or another guns and the 2nd amendment is always on your mind. I should have known better.


LMAO The guy is OBSESSED with guns. And I do mean obsessed. Aren't you second A guy.
 
People are always complaining that Americans don't understand what they are voting for and don't take voting seriously....so.....we should start charging 431.50 to vote in every election...that way only those people who are really serious about the fate of the country will actually vote...it will weed out the unserious, and the uninformed.....

Right?
Just another repubtard shredding the Constitution to strip US citizens of their rights. They want dictator tyrants ruling over slaves.
 
However, now that you mention it I now recall that in some form or another guns and the 2nd amendment is always on your mind. I should have known better.


LMAO The guy is OBSESSED with guns. And I do mean obsessed. Aren't you second A guy.


Actually, you are wrong....not unusual...you are a lefty democrat....if anything I am obsessed with the Bill of Rights, and in particular the 2nd Amendment....the Right of Self defense......and guns are the most effective method of self defense.....

As you have failed to notice...I rarely post about guns themselves.....and usually address self defense with guns and the right to own guns......the ones obsessed with guns are the ones who see a gun and start thinking about having sex with the gun or see a male sex organ when they think about guns....and that would be many of the anti gunners here on U.S. message who automatically start talking along those lines when guns are even remotely mentioned.....
 
People are always complaining that Americans don't understand what they are voting for and don't take voting seriously....so.....we should start charging 431.50 to vote in every election...that way only those people who are really serious about the fate of the country will actually vote...it will weed out the unserious, and the uninformed.....

Right?
Just another repubtard shredding the Constitution to strip US citizens of their rights. They want dictator tyrants ruling over slaves.


So.......you don't think we should have to pay to vote? Neither do I...now...do you also agree we should not have to pay to exercise other Rights? In Particular the 2nd Amendment....or do you stop your belief about rights at the ones you don't like?
 
People are always complaining that Americans don't understand what they are voting for and don't take voting seriously....so.....we should start charging 431.50 to vote in every election...that way only those people who are really serious about the fate of the country will actually vote...it will weed out the unserious, and the uninformed.....

Right?

If the uninformed weren't allowed to vote, you would be disenfranchised.

Poll taxes are unconstitutional. Thanks for playing.


Why should Poll Taxes be unconsitutional....can you explain that for the reading audience? Who said the uninformed were not allowed to vote.......under this plan, they can vote, they simply have to pay 431.50 to do it...........

And I do believe this is the CDZ...and you just violated the rules...please...pay attention to where you are posting....

Poll taxes are unconstitutional because the states ratified the 24th amendment.


So we do a new Amendment...right...? And change that....

If a new amendment is created and ratified by the states, sure, that will change. I don't see it happening any time soon, but that's the way to make poll taxes legally acceptable if that is your goal.

as if the public would allow the white supremacists to do that.

funny thing is an awful lot of Donald's minions couldn't afford to pay that themselves.

that would leave college educated voters.

no GOP candidate would ever win again.
 
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If the uninformed weren't allowed to vote, you would be disenfranchised.

Poll taxes are unconstitutional. Thanks for playing.


Why should Poll Taxes be unconsitutional....can you explain that for the reading audience? Who said the uninformed were not allowed to vote.......under this plan, they can vote, they simply have to pay 431.50 to do it...........

And I do believe this is the CDZ...and you just violated the rules...please...pay attention to where you are posting....

Poll taxes are unconstitutional because the states ratified the 24th amendment.


So we do a new Amendment...right...? And change that....

If a new amendment is created and ratified by the states, sure, that will change. I don't see it happening any time soon, but that's the way to make poll taxes legally acceptable if that is your goal.

as if the public would allow the white supremacists to do that.

funny thing is an awful lot of dumb Donald's minions couldn't afford to pay that themselves.

that would leave college educated voters.

no GOP candidate would ever win again.

dummies


Actually, the conservatives who work for a living could afford it....those who accept government welfare would be less likely to be able to afford the fee.....
 
So.......isn't it more important to have people who actually care about the country enough to pay this fee vote? Rather than a bunch of people who just vote in ignorance of the issues?
Agreed, but rather than just letting the Paris Hiltons of the country vote, I'd rather limit it to veterans.
 
Should gun manufacturers give guns away?
No you say. Why not? It's my right to have a gun an'md I want one and I don't have any money to buy one. Gimme a gun.

Should I be able to sell my vote to be able to buy my gun. If not why not?

Should I pose other asinine questions trying to conflate the right to vote with the right to bear arms in a militia?
Sure. Why not. Makes as much sense as claiming there are thousands and thousands of defensive gun uses 365 days of the year.
 
If the uninformed weren't allowed to vote, you would be disenfranchised.

Poll taxes are unconstitutional. Thanks for playing.


Why should Poll Taxes be unconsitutional....can you explain that for the reading audience? Who said the uninformed were not allowed to vote.......under this plan, they can vote, they simply have to pay 431.50 to do it...........

And I do believe this is the CDZ...and you just violated the rules...please...pay attention to where you are posting....

Poll taxes are unconstitutional because the states ratified the 24th amendment.


So we do a new Amendment...right...? And change that....

If a new amendment is created and ratified by the states, sure, that will change. I don't see it happening any time soon, but that's the way to make poll taxes legally acceptable if that is your goal.

as if the public would allow the white supremacists to do that.

funny thing is an awful lot of Donald's minions couldn't afford to pay that themselves.

that would leave college educated voters.

no GOP candidate would ever win again.

Only white supremacists would want a poll tax?

Only college educated voters can afford $431.50?
 
Should gun manufacturers give guns away?
No you say. Why not? It's my right to have a gun an'md I want one and I don't have any money to buy one. Gimme a gun.

Should I be able to sell my vote to be able to buy my gun. If not why not?

Should I pose other asinine questions trying to conflate the right to vote with the right to bear arms in a militia?
Sure. Why not. Makes as much sense as claiming there are thousands and thousands of defensive gun uses 365 days of the year.


It is your right to own a gun...not your right to make a slave out of the man who makes it...that is what the democrat party did before the 1860s. There is an individual right to bear arms outside of militia service....has been since the beginning of the country.

there are 1,500,000 times a year Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack according to bill clinton's Department of Justice research back in the 1990s.....and that was when there were only 200 million guns in the country and about 4 million concealed carry permit holders...now we have 357 million guns in private hands and 14.5 million Americans actually carrying guns for self defense...so those defensive uses more than likely increased......

And as more Americans bought and carry guns....our gun murder rate went down 49%.......
 
People are always complaining that Americans don't understand what they are voting for and don't take voting seriously....so.....we should start charging 431.50 to vote in every election...that way only those people who are really serious about the fate of the country will actually vote...it will weed out the unserious, and the uninformed.....

Right?

I assume this is a joke?
 
Should gun manufacturers give guns away?
No you say. Why not? It's my right to have a gun an'md I want one and I don't have any money to buy one. Gimme a gun.

Should I be able to sell my vote to be able to buy my gun. If not why not?

Should I pose other asinine questions trying to conflate the right to vote with the right to bear arms in a militia?
Sure. Why not. Makes as much sense as claiming there are thousands and thousands of defensive gun uses 365 days of the year.


It is your right to own a gun...not your right to make a slave out of the man who makes it...that is what the democrat party did before the 1860s. There is an individual right to bear arms outside of militia service....has been since the beginning of the country.

there are 1,500,000 times a year Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack according to bill clinton's Department of Justice research back in the 1990s.....and that was when there were only 200 million guns in the country and about 4 million concealed carry permit holders...now we have 357 million guns in private hands and 14.5 million Americans actually carrying guns for self defense...so those defensive uses more than likely increased......

And as more Americans bought and carry guns....our gun murder rate went down 49%.......

I'd like to see that statistic about guns used to stop violent crime, if you have a link. I wonder how it was determined.
 
People are always complaining that Americans don't understand what they are voting for and don't take voting seriously....so.....we should start charging 431.50 to vote in every election...that way only those people who are really serious about the fate of the country will actually vote...it will weed out the unserious, and the uninformed.....

Right?

I assume this is a joke?


No...it is an actual question.
 
People are always complaining that Americans don't understand what they are voting for and don't take voting seriously....so.....we should start charging 431.50 to vote in every election...that way only those people who are really serious about the fate of the country will actually vote...it will weed out the unserious, and the uninformed.....

Right?

I assume this is a joke?


No...it is an actual question.

The answer is obviously no. If you prefer feudalism and an aristocracy, either go back in time 1,000 years or move to Russia.
 
Should gun manufacturers give guns away?
No you say. Why not? It's my right to have a gun an'md I want one and I don't have any money to buy one. Gimme a gun.

Should I be able to sell my vote to be able to buy my gun. If not why not?

Should I pose other asinine questions trying to conflate the right to vote with the right to bear arms in a militia?
Sure. Why not. Makes as much sense as claiming there are thousands and thousands of defensive gun uses 365 days of the year.


It is your right to own a gun...not your right to make a slave out of the man who makes it...that is what the democrat party did before the 1860s. There is an individual right to bear arms outside of militia service....has been since the beginning of the country.

there are 1,500,000 times a year Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack according to bill clinton's Department of Justice research back in the 1990s.....and that was when there were only 200 million guns in the country and about 4 million concealed carry permit holders...now we have 357 million guns in private hands and 14.5 million Americans actually carrying guns for self defense...so those defensive uses more than likely increased......

And as more Americans bought and carry guns....our gun murder rate went down 49%.......

I'd like to see that statistic about guns used to stop violent crime, if you have a link. I wonder how it was determined.


Here you go......this is a list of all the studies that have looked at defensive gun use over the years........40 years just about.......the name of the researchers or group, the year of the research and the number of defensive gun uses they found....also, wether they included police or military defensive gun uses...

The obama CDC research in 2013 is also shown, as well as the Department of Justice research number during bill clinton's administration....you can see that it is quite a lot of research, done over time by both government and private researchers........



A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------



Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------


Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....
 
People are always complaining that Americans don't understand what they are voting for and don't take voting seriously....so.....we should start charging 431.50 to vote in every election...that way only those people who are really serious about the fate of the country will actually vote...it will weed out the unserious, and the uninformed.....

Right?

I assume this is a joke?


No...it is an actual question.

The answer is obviously no. If you prefer feudalism and an aristocracy, either go back in time 1,000 years or move to Russia.


Then why do you want to charge people to exercise other Rights......? If it is wrong to charger people to exercise one Right it is wrong to charge them to exercise any Right....
 

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