We need to stop pretending that this issue is so difficult. It is obvious even to a young child.

[Hollie]

View attachment 140006

How do you people not get this?

This sets up an unavoidable problem for the anti-Israel team.

Either indigenous and prior peoples have rights or they do not. If they DO, then the Jewish people also have those rights. If they do NOT, then the Palestinians have no rights as a prior people.

You can't have it both ways. Either the people who were there prior to an invasion have the right to restoration or they do not. This cartoon seems to argue that they do not. If child #2 is bumped for child #3, child #3 now holds the rights, yes? That is the implication of the cartoon. Is that what you want to go with?

The indigenous Palestinians are a people who are being denied their land, freedom, and self determination by the Israelis here and now. This is a contemporary problem unlike treatment of the Jews by the Romans millennia ago.

The slogan "indigenous Pal'istanians" really means Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese squatters, right?

 

[Shusha]

View attachment 140006

How do you people not get this?

This sets up an unavoidable problem for the anti-Israel team.

Either indigenous and prior peoples have rights or they do not. If they DO, then the Jewish people also have those rights. If they do NOT, then the Palestinians have no rights as a prior people.

You can't have it both ways. Either the people who were there prior to an invasion have the right to restoration or they do not. This cartoon seems to argue that they do not. If child #2 is bumped for child #3, child #3 now holds the rights, yes? That is the implication of the cartoon. Is that what you want to go with?

The indigenous Palestinians are a people who are being denied their land, freedom, and self determination by the Israelis here and now. This is a contemporary problem unlike treatment of the Jews by the Romans millennia ago.

The treatment of Jews today is most certainly a contemporary problem. Do people have a right to restoration or not?

 

[P F Tinmore]

In what way are the Israelis unwilling to compromise? Conversely, in what way are the Palestinians willing to compromise?

1. They have never agreed to permit the establishment of a sovereign Palestinian state. (All the offers have included indefinite continued military occupation)
2. They have refused to follow UN Resolutions (e.g. 191) regarding the right of return of the Palestinians to their homes.
3. They have refused to return to 1967 borders per UN Resolution(s).

What should the Palestinians compromise, the Jews have taken more than 60% of their land already.

Thanks for the answer(s), but you have unwittingly undermined your own thesis:

1. The Israelis are willing to compromise on a Palestinian State, but the Palestinians are unwilling to compromise on Israeli security (or even recognize an Israeli State).

2. The Israelis are willing to compromise by trading land for peace; the Palestinians are not.

3. See #1 and #2 above. The only compromise you are willing to accept is Israel committing national suicide.

2. The Israelis are willing to compromise by trading land for peace; the Palestinians are not.

Israel has no land.

Who wrote this crap?

Israel has no land? You mean except for their land.

Do the mullahs at your madrassah write the nonsense you dump into threads?

It's true. Look it up.

 

[louie888]

Squatters for centuries... good one.

The slogan "indigenous Pal'istanians" really means Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese squatters, right?

You have an amazing grasp of the irrelevant.

 

[louie888]

The treatment of Jews today is most certainly a contemporary problem. Do people have a right to restoration or not?

Please stop derailing. This one is obvious.

 

[Shusha]

Please stop derailing. This one is obvious.

Really? Is it obvious? Answer the question. Do people have a right to restoration?

If they do -- then the Jewish people do as well. Unless you are making up special rules for Jews. (You know the word for that, yes?).

If they do not -- then the Palestinians do not.

 

[louie888]

You are not making any sense. The OP IS simple!

You can't even steal a crib because you used to sleep in it, let alone peoples' homes who have been there centuries.

 

[peach174]

How do you people not get this?

How do you not get territory?

 

[Shusha]

You are not making any sense. The OP IS simple!

You can't even steal a crib because you used to sleep in it, let alone peoples' homes who have been there centuries.

Cool. So you are saying people have no rights to restoration after their crib has been usurped. Then since the Palestinians no longer sleep in that crib, it no longer belongs to them. We just solved the entire conflict!

 

[louie888]

You are not making any sense. The OP IS simple!

You can't even steal a crib because you used to sleep in it, let alone peoples' homes who have been there centuries.

Cool. So you are saying people have no rights to restoration after their crib has been usurped. Then since the Palestinians no longer sleep in that crib, it no longer belongs to them. We just solved the entire conflict!

Just tell me what makes you believe that you can take land and homes from people.

 

[Shusha]

Just tell me what makes you believe that you can take land and homes from people.

I don't. I believe in restoring indigenous peoples. I just believe it for ALL peoples.

Is that your answer then? That people should be restored when their land and homes are taken away from them?

 

[louie888]

I don't.

Good.

The rest is off topic. I don't care about.

 

[Shusha]

I don't.

Good.

The rest is off topic. I don't care about.

Lol. Of course you don't. You refuse to take a stand on the question, you asked, for fear that it will reveal your hypocrisy.

I've spent this whole thread trying to get you to take a stand. And you refuse. Why? Because your true position is untenable.

 

[louie888]

I don't.

Good.

The rest is off topic. I don't care about.

Lol. Of course you don't. You refuse to take a stand on the question, you asked, for fear that it will reveal your hypocrisy.

I've spent this whole thread trying to get you to take a stand. And you refuse. Why? Because your true position is untenable.

I just proved the title of this thread. You and I both believe that you can NOT take land and homes from people.

You can argue that other crap with others who wish to on an appropriate thread.

 

[Shusha]

You and I both believe that you can NOT take land and homes from people.

Yep. And that is why both the Jewish peoples and the Arab Palestinian peoples need to be restored. Because its not okay to take land and homes from people. The problem, the reason for the conflict is that these two restorations are mutually exclusive, so some sort of compromise must be reached.

 

[louie888]

Yep. And that is why both the Jewish peoples and the Arab Palestinian peoples need to be restored.

And there is your typical conflation of biblical Jews with the invaders of Palestine who are European. If they cannot live in peace, restore them to Europe (or somewhere where people want them).

They continue to steal land and homes which we agree is wrong.

Problem solved.

 

[Shusha]

They continue to steal land and homes which we agree is wrong.

They are not stealing land. They are one of the claimants to be restored.

 

[louie888]

They continue to steal land and homes which we agree is wrong.

They are not stealing land. They are one of the claimants to be restored.

Europeans cannot claim land there. Look at it as if China was claiming the Bahamas.

 

[Shusha]

They continue to steal land and homes which we agree is wrong.

They are not stealing land. They are one of the claimants to be restored.

Europeans cannot claim land there. Look at it as if China was claiming the Bahamas.

Sure. But the objective reasoning behind your argument here is that a people removed from a land and forced elsewhere lose their claim to the land. Which goes against your previous claim that a people removed from a land and forced elsewhere have the right to be restored.

You keep bouncing back and forth. You keep trying to have it both ways. Pick a side and STAY there. Do a people who have been forcibly removed from a land have the right to be restored to that land? Yes or no?

See, I THINK you want to argue that a people should be restored to a land. But not the Jews. So then you have to concoct a crazy story, completely contrary to reality, that the Jewish people have nothing to do with the land in question. Like China has nothing to do with the Bahamas.

But you are pretty scared of that argument too. And rightfully so. Because its stupid.

 

[louie888]

So then you have to concoct a crazy story, completely contrary to reality, that the Jewish people have nothing to do with the land in question. Like China has nothing to do with the Bahamas.

Nope. Europeans have as much right to Palestine as the Chinese have to the Bahamas. You keep conflating.