We Are Witnessing the Failure of Socialism

[MikeK]

If it is the death of socialism then it is the birth of ......what?

I never said death of socialism, it is alive and well here in the US. It is the failure of socialism, which is inevitable where ever it is applied.

After having power for 8 years in Spain the socialists have destroyed the economy and burdened the nation with unsustainable debt.

The conservative party won in a landslide.

You are parroting right-wing propagandists who seem to have convinced you on behalf of their One Percent masters that socialism is destined to fail. That is nonsense. Denmark is a model of socialism and is known as "The Happiest Place On Earth."

Denmark: The Happiest Place on Earth - ABC News

 

[Contumacious]

Denmark is a model of socialism and is known as "The Happiest Place On Earth."

DENMARK APPROVES NEW POLICE POWERS AHEAD OF COPENHAGEN
(Controversial legislation gives police sweeping powers of 'pre-emptive' arrest and extends custodial sentences for acts of civil disobedience)

The Danish parliament today passed legislation which will give police sweeping powers of "pre-emptive" arrest and extend custodial sentences for acts of civil disobedience. The "deeply worrying" law comes ahead of the UN climate talks which start on 7 December and are expected to attract thousands of activists from next week.

Under the new powers, Danish police will be able to detain people for up to 12 hours whom they suspect might break the law in the near future. Protesters could also be jailed for 40 days under the hurriedly drafted legislation dubbed by activists as the "turmoil and riot" law. The law was first announced on 18 October. The Danish ministry of justice said that the new powers of "pre-emptive" detention would increase from 6 to 12 hours and apply to international activists

.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a list of countries from highest to lowest GDP per capita, which is a pretty good estimator of how well an economy is doing. In the top 30 countries, we find:

1. Luxembourg
2. Norway
4. Switzerland
6. Denmark
8. Sweden
9. Netherlands
(10. United States)
12. Ireland
13. Austria
14. Finland
16. Belgium
18. France
19. Germany
20. Iceland (does that count as European?)
22. United Kingdom
23. Italy
25. Spain
29. Greece
30. Slovenia

Non-European countries except the U.S. (and maybe Iceland) have been skipped here. So of the top 30 richest countries in the world, more than half are European countries.

what was that again about how "socialism" always ruins every country it touches?

Write it down: A Socialist has lost an argument as soon as they say "Norway"

There are American CITIES with more people than those Countries.

And they all benefit from "North Sea Crude Oil"

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Bronx, Brooklyn and Queens have as many people as Denmark.

 

[Charles_Main]

During the debt limit crisis that enthralled the nation just months ago liberal economists like Paul Krugman and leftists on this board proclaimed that increasing the national debt, which currently stands somewhere around $15 trillion--up $2 trillion since the debt limit was increased--was not only necessary but desperately needed for economic growth and improvement.

These people told us that the debt and deficit isn't detrimental at all.

"It’s politically fashionable to rant against government spending and demand fiscal responsibility. But right now, increased government spending is just what the doctor ordered, and concerns about the budget deficit should be put on hold." Op-Ed Columnist - Let’s Get Fiscal - NYTimes.com

If any of this were true then the socialist countries of Europe would be thriving. In reality unregulated deficit spending and debt is devastating the global market.

What is happening in Europe is a complete refutation of the left's steadfast faith that increased deficit spending during a time of glacial economic growth is what is needed to grow the economy.

Hell, what is happening today in America is a complete refutation of this administration's entire economic agenda.

It is pretty Ironic that even as Obama and the Dems Push to make us more like Europe, The European Nations are all coming to Grips with the Reality of Unsustainable Social Spending, and a Population that would rather hold the country hostage, Strike, and be Violent, than wake up to the Simple Truth. What they want, is not possible. Cradle to Grave Entitlements like that have in Europe are completely unsustainable unless you have a Vast, Young, and Growing population.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

population in millions

Manhattan 1.6
Bronx 1.4
Brooklyn 2.6
Queens 2.3
Staten Italy .5

Denmark 5.6
Finland 5.4
Norway 4.9
Sweden 9.3

More different races in one block in Mott Haven section of the Bronx than in all these North Sea mecca combined

 

[Charles_Main]

List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a list of countries from highest to lowest GDP per capita, which is a pretty good estimator of how well an economy is doing. In the top 30 countries, we find:

1. Luxembourg
2. Norway
4. Switzerland
6. Denmark
8. Sweden
9. Netherlands
(10. United States)
12. Ireland
13. Austria
14. Finland
16. Belgium
18. France
19. Germany
20. Iceland (does that count as European?)
22. United Kingdom
23. Italy
25. Spain
29. Greece
30. Slovenia

Non-European countries except the U.S. (and maybe Iceland) have been skipped here. So of the top 30 richest countries in the world, more than half are European countries.

what was that again about how "socialism" always ruins every country it touches?

Write it down: A Socialist has lost an argument as soon as they say "Norway"

There are American CITIES with more people than those Countries.

And they all benefit from "North Sea Crude Oil"

Yep, and they all benefit from Having almost NO defense Budget at all. Thanks to their Allies like the United States of America.

Not to Mention the Fact that each and every one of those nations is not far behind the Rest of Europe when it comes to their Debt Problems. Sooner or Later all the Dominos will Fall, and these idiot liberals will still not see the truth.

 

[Dragon]

There are American CITIES with more people than those Countries.

Per capita GDP I said. Population differences are accounted for; otherwise, the U.S. would have been first.

Many of those countries do not benefit from the North Sea oil or indeed from any substantial oil reserves. Europe has a varied and advanced economy. As for the defense budgets, which are not "almost none" but are considerably lower than our own absurd monstrosity, while that does indeed help them (and could help us if we came to our senses), it does not account for what we see. The defense budgets of the major European powers such as Germany, France, and the UK are lower than ours but considerably higher than many other countries that have much less "socialism" in their economies.

Incidentally, the list I linked to had a lot of others in those top 30 that, while not in Europe, are just as "socialistic." For example, all of these countries have socialized medicine:

7. Australia
15. Singapore
17. Japan
24. New Zealand
27. Israel

In fact, the only countries in the top 30 by per capita GDP that AREN'T "socialistic" (at least according to the way you guys use that term) are the U.S. and a few oil-rich Middle Eastern shiekdoms.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a list of countries from highest to lowest GDP per capita, which is a pretty good estimator of how well an economy is doing. In the top 30 countries, we find:

1. Luxembourg
2. Norway
4. Switzerland
6. Denmark
8. Sweden
9. Netherlands
(10. United States)
12. Ireland
13. Austria
14. Finland
16. Belgium
18. France
19. Germany
20. Iceland (does that count as European?)
22. United Kingdom
23. Italy
25. Spain
29. Greece
30. Slovenia

Non-European countries except the U.S. (and maybe Iceland) have been skipped here. So of the top 30 richest countries in the world, more than half are European countries.

what was that again about how "socialism" always ruins every country it touches?

Write it down: A Socialist has lost an argument as soon as they say "Norway"

There are American CITIES with more people than those Countries.

And they all benefit from "North Sea Crude Oil"

Yep, and they all benefit from Having almost NO defense Budget at all. Thanks to their Allies like the United States of America.

Not to Mention the Fact that each and every one of those nations is not far behind the Rest of Europe when it comes to their Debt Problems. Sooner or Later all the Dominos will Fall, and these idiot liberals will still not see the truth.

And they are homogeneous societies

 

[CrusaderFrank]

There are American CITIES with more people than those Countries.

Per capita GDP I said. Population differences are accounted for; otherwise, the U.S. would have been first.

Don't worry, with another term Obama will knock us down a few rungs

 

[Dragon]

Don't worry, with another term Obama will knock us down a few rungs

He'll be in good company then. You may have noticed we're only no. 10 on that list. Did that surprise you? Include some relevant economic stats like how much the average person pays for health care, and we'd be even further down.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Don't worry, with another term Obama will knock us down a few rungs

He'll be in good company then. You may have noticed we're only no. 10 on that list. Did that surprise you? Include some relevant economic stats like how much the average person pays for health care, and we'd be even further down.

Even after 100 uninterrupted years of Progressive Jihad on our civil society and Free Market, we still have the biggest economy on the planet.

 

[Sallow]

Don't worry, with another term Obama will knock us down a few rungs

He'll be in good company then. You may have noticed we're only no. 10 on that list. Did that surprise you? Include some relevant economic stats like how much the average person pays for health care, and we'd be even further down.

Even after 100 uninterrupted years of Progressive Jihad on our civil society and Free Market, we still have the biggest economy on the planet.

Yeah..but we developed a Middle Class around 1950 or so.

 

[likeabird03]

Liberals are terrified of putting a lid on government spending. It's because so many of them, especially the wealthy ones are in occupations within various Ivory Towers, funded by taxpayer dollars. Sociology Professors, Public Health officials, Regulators, Nurses Unions, Environmental consultants, School administrators, and the attorneys that surround them. They're terrified of the system shrinking because they know they'll have to get off their taxpayer funded soapboxes and get a job in the private sector actually producing something, or get a job based off their actual talents (which few of these self loathing individuals possess).

That's why they've changed the narrative over the years to one that says Deficits don't matter. As we can see, they very much do matter and it's becoming obvious to them the narrative has shifted. So they're arguing for higher taxes instead.

 

[mascale]

GOP Front-Runner Giingrich has famously opined that little kids deserve to clean toilets. No doubt he wants to showcase the benefits of Laissez-Faire, like in Haiti! Now, who will deny that in Haiti lots of little kids actually deserve a toilet to clean!

And then it's on to Laissez-Faire Showcase, East Africa. Famously, in Kenya, There are even orphans in abundance. The Conservative Base, enamored of Newt: Is famous for its Laissez-Faire concern for orphans, which they steal and ship away.

Newt has even famously proposed a return to the charitable concept of, "orphanages:" Like even made famous in books of the Holidays Author, Charles Dickens.Watery gruel, little kids even deserve!

Anyone notices that about all that Haiti has in common with the Socialist civilizations: Is a smaller than larger population. Building codes, clearly, it has never been famous for having. Haiti is serious Laissez-Faire, of McConnell-Boehner-Cantor-Bachmann-Palin-RomneyThisOrRomeneyThat(?)-Huntsman-Cain-and-Paul-Paul, et. al.: And anyone else, not sufficiently numerous to even be mentioned. Anyone sees what they are for.

Then anyone compares and contrasts where anyone would rather want to live. Even the Obamas would likely not pick Laissez-Faire, Kenya: As a place to want to live in, much less Haiti.

And as for the rest of the Ivy League: Then anyone guesses that probably goes without saying--lest they be thought racist, or something(?)!

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(You may call a dollar legal tender: But a lawyer actually accepts only checks in larger amounts! Karl Marx understood about the law, and even about Centralized Credit--except when he didn't(?)! Had only he known! Then Mrs Marx might have had a lifem according to the Mr.(?)!)"

 

[Google]

If it is the death of socialism then it is the birth of ......what?

I never said death of socialism, it is alive and well here in the US. It is the failure of socialism, which is inevitable where ever it is applied.

After having power for 8 years in Spain the socialists have destroyed the economy and burdened the nation with unsustainable debt.

The conservative party won in a landslide.

You are parroting right-wing propagandists who seem to have convinced you on behalf of their One Percent masters that socialism is destined to fail. That is nonsense. Denmark is a model of socialism and is known as "The Happiest Place On Earth."

Denmark: The Happiest Place on Earth - ABC News

Socialism can only exist as long as the government's ability to afford it, which is directly limited to the amount of taxes--I'm sorry revenue-- that the government can forcibly take from the private sector.

These occupiers are delusional. A small group of people, estimated at 1%, are responsible for all the ills of the world. They control everything.

I guess that's why they have expressed so much Antisemitism, they are conspiracy theorists akin to KKK members

 

[Contumacious]

GOP Front-Runner Giingrich has famously opined that little kids deserve to clean toilets. No doubt he wants to showcase the benefits of Laissez-Faire, like in Haiti! "

Mr Dumb Ass, Sir:

Haiti has been governed by tyrants since its creation. None of them have made and attempt to attract and preserve Capital and property rights. So, STFU.

.

 

[Dragon]

Socialism can only exist as long as the government's ability to afford it, which is directly limited to the amount of taxes--I'm sorry revenue-- that the government can forcibly take from the private sector.

(Emphasis added.) That one word makes the sentence false. If not for that, it would be true.

Mao Tze-Tung was wrong, and Thomas Jefferson was right. Power doesn't come from the barrel of a gun. It comes from the consent of the governed. Taxes, like everything else the government does, aren't forced. True, there are penalties for those who deliberately evade paying taxes, but the system only works when most people pay their share voluntarily without trying to get out of it. If everyone were to refuse to pay taxes, the government could not possibly enforce the tax laws.

However, correct for that mistake and you have it right: socialism depends on the government's ability to take revenues from the private sector, and for the people's willingness that it do so. Which in turn is directly (and geometrically) proportional to how wealthy a society becomes.

Government services provide a positive good to society which the people are willing to pay for to the extent they can do so without suffering. Government services provide good roads, education, health care, support for scientific research, access to information, parks and recreational facilities, libraries, a social safety net, and other good things that private industry either can't or won't provide. These are worth paying for, or so it seems all societies believe. And that's why the percentage of a nation's wealth that goes to public expenses increases as its wealth increases. It's not that poor countries don't want all these good things, but simply that they can't afford them, while rich countries can -- and always do.

 

[NYcarbineer]

During the debt limit crisis that enthralled the nation just months ago liberal economists like Paul Krugman and leftists on this board proclaimed that increasing the national debt, which currently stands somewhere around $15 trillion--up $2 trillion since the debt limit was increased--was not only necessary but desperately needed for economic growth and improvement.

.

Which posters here said that?

 

[francoHFW]

We have socialism (social democracy) jusy a crappy kind that panders to the rich and screws the nonrich...

What we are witnessing is the failure of savage capitalism, AGAIN!!. The social democracies of the EU were doing just fine until the greedy deregulation morons/cronies started the SECOND Pub Great Depression. And thanks again for screwing with the world recovery just to to get Obama.