"We all want to increase tax rates on the rich."

[Dad2three]

Alrdy had this discussion with Buffet as exhibit A...remember he stated his Secretary was paying more taxes than him.....so what good would raising the rates do......

Raising the rates on everyone or the rich (defined by top 1% = $380,000 a year -- a few years ago)?

How many of the top one percent are in same situation as Buffet........

The fortunate 400: David Cay Johnston


Six American families paid no federal income taxes in 2009 while making something on the order of $200 million each.



In addition to the six who paid no tax, another 110 families paid 15 percent or less in federal income taxes. That's the same federal tax rate as a single worker who made $61,500 in 2009.

Overall, the top 400 paid an average income tax rate of 19.9 percent, the same rate paid by a single worker who made $110,000 in 2009. The top 400 earned five times that much every day.

Just 82 of the top 400 were taxed in accord with the Buffett rule, which proposes a minimum tax of 30 percent on annual incomes greater than $1 million.


The fortunate 400: David Cay Johnston

 

[Dad2three]

What we need is to pay out more welfare and unemployment bennies cause that drives the economy......rrriiggghhttt

Contrary to "Entitlement Society" Rhetoric, Over Nine-Tenths of Entitlement Benefits Go to Elderly, Disabled, or Working Households



Moreover, the vast bulk of that 9 percent goes for medical care, unemployment insurance benefits (which individuals must have a significant work history to receive), Social Security survivor benefits for the children and spouses of deceased workers, and Social Security benefits for retirees between ages 62 and 64. Seven out of the 9 percentage points go for one of these four purposes.

Contrary to "Entitlement Society" Rhetoric, Over Nine-Tenths of Entitlement Benefits Go to Elderly, Disabled, or Working Households | Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Alrdy had this discussion with Buffet as exhibit A...remember he stated his Secretary was paying more taxes than him.....so what good would raising the rates do......

Raising the rates on everyone or the rich (defined by top 1% = $380,000 a year -- a few years ago)?

How many of the top one percent are in same situation as Buffet........

Warren Buffet is in the top 1% but he's also in the top 1/10 of 1% and ....

Warren Buffet uses more tax breaks than most. If he paid a little less than $7,000,000 in taxes one year and he said his tax rate was 17.4% -- Buffet had adjusted gross income of $40,000,000 that year but --- his wealth increased from 40 billion to 50 billion -- he gave billions away to foundations. Using the Simon definition of income, add up what Buffet spent, what he gave away, and the increase in his wealth.

If you look at Buffets' income that year it was $12 billion --

Buffet paid $7,000,000 in taxes for --- a 6 one-hundreths of one percent tax rate on his actual income

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If you collect more taxes from the rich with a 15% cap gains rate than with a 20% cap gains rate, what do you do?

Moron Obama said he'd raise the rate, for fairness.
Smartest president my ass.

Keep the rate at 15% ???

Who said Obama was the smartest President? What in the world are you yapping about?

Who said Obama was the smartest President?

Back in 2008, lots of people.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Arthur Laffer said quote: "We all want to increase tax rates on the rich. But we want to do it not by raising rates which won't work. We want to do it by lowering rates and broadening the base."

pay attention people like bripat9643 Oldstyle bedowin62 Toddsterpatriot Judicial review @ The rest of you

but "We all want to increase tax rates on the rich. But we want to do it not by raising rates..."?????

please, Supply siders, please explain

If you collect more taxes from the rich with a 15% cap gains rate than with a 20% cap gains rate, what do you do?

Moron Obama said he'd raise the rate, for fairness.
Smartest president my ass.

what would make you think that you would collect more from a 15% rate?

What makes you think they would collect more from a higher rate?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Alrdy had this discussion with Buffet as exhibit A...remember he stated his Secretary was paying more taxes than him.....so what good would raising the rates do......

Raising the rates on everyone or the rich (defined by top 1% = $380,000 a year -- a few years ago)?

How many of the top one percent are in same situation as Buffet........

Warren Buffet is in the top 1% but he's also in the top 1/10 of 1% and ....

Warren Buffet uses more tax breaks than most. If he paid a little less than $7,000,000 in taxes one year and he said his tax rate was 17.4% -- Buffet had adjusted gross income of $40,000,000 that year but --- his wealth increased from 40 billion to 50 billion -- he gave billions away to foundations. Using the Simon definition of income, add up what Buffet spent, what he gave away, and the increase in his wealth.

If you look at Buffets' income that year it was $12 billion --

Buffet paid $7,000,000 in taxes for --- a 6 one-hundreths of one percent tax rate on his actual income

Using the Simon definition of income,

LOL!

 

[Dad2three]

Arthur Laffer said quote: "We all want to increase tax rates on the rich. But we want to do it not by raising rates which won't work. We want to do it by lowering rates and broadening the base."

pay attention people like bripat9643 Oldstyle bedowin62 Toddsterpatriot Judicial review @ The rest of you

but "We all want to increase tax rates on the rich. But we want to do it not by raising rates..."?????

please, Supply siders, please explain

If you collect more taxes from the rich with a 15% cap gains rate than with a 20% cap gains rate, what do you do?

Moron Obama said he'd raise the rate, for fairness.
Smartest president my ass.

what would make you think that you would collect more from a 15% rate?

What makes you think they would collect more from a higher rate?

Bush CEA Chair Mankiw: Claim That Broad-Based Income Tax Cuts Increase Revenue Is Not "Credible," Capital Income Tax Cuts Also Don't Pay For Themselves.


used the phrase "charlatans and cranks" in the first edition of my principles textbook to describe some of the economic advisers to Ronald Reagan, who told him that broad-based income tax cuts would have such large supply-side effects that the tax cuts would raise tax revenue. I did not find such a claim credible, based on the available evidence. I never have, and I still don't.

[...]

My other work has remained consistent with this view. In a paper on dynamic scoring, written while I was working at the White House, Matthew Weinzierl and I estimated that a broad-based income tax cut (applying to both capital and labor income) would recoup only about a quarter of the lost revenue through supply-side growth effects. For a cut in capital income taxes, the feedback is larger--about 50 percent--but still well under 100 percent. A chapter on dynamic scoring in the 2004 Economic Report of the President says about the the [sic] same thing.



Greg Mankiw's Blog: On Charlatans and Cranks

 

[ogibillm]

Arthur Laffer said quote: "We all want to increase tax rates on the rich. But we want to do it not by raising rates which won't work. We want to do it by lowering rates and broadening the base."

pay attention people like bripat9643 Oldstyle bedowin62 Toddsterpatriot Judicial review @ The rest of you

but "We all want to increase tax rates on the rich. But we want to do it not by raising rates..."?????

please, Supply siders, please explain

If you collect more taxes from the rich with a 15% cap gains rate than with a 20% cap gains rate, what do you do?

Moron Obama said he'd raise the rate, for fairness.
Smartest president my ass.

what would make you think that you would collect more from a 15% rate?

What makes you think they would collect more from a higher rate?

i call it 'reality'

 

[PK1]

If you collect more taxes from the rich with a 15% cap gains rate than with a 20% cap gains rate, what do you do?

Moron Obama said he'd raise the rate, for fairness.
Smartest president my ass.

Keep the rate at 15% ???

Who said Obama was the smartest President? What in the world are you yapping about?

Who said Obama was the smartest President?

Back in 2008, lots of people.

---
It's all about DEFINITION.
Depending on definition of sex, Clinton did not have any.
Defining "smartest President" is a bit more complicated, no?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

If you collect more taxes from the rich with a 15% cap gains rate than with a 20% cap gains rate, what do you do?

Moron Obama said he'd raise the rate, for fairness.
Smartest president my ass.

Keep the rate at 15% ???

Who said Obama was the smartest President? What in the world are you yapping about?

Who said Obama was the smartest President?

Back in 2008, lots of people.

Are you drinking while posting?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Arthur Laffer said quote: "We all want to increase tax rates on the rich. But we want to do it not by raising rates which won't work. We want to do it by lowering rates and broadening the base."

pay attention people like bripat9643 Oldstyle bedowin62 Toddsterpatriot Judicial review @ The rest of you

but "We all want to increase tax rates on the rich. But we want to do it not by raising rates..."?????

please, Supply siders, please explain

If you collect more taxes from the rich with a 15% cap gains rate than with a 20% cap gains rate, what do you do?

Moron Obama said he'd raise the rate, for fairness.
Smartest president my ass.

what would make you think that you would collect more from a 15% rate?

What makes you think they would collect more from a higher rate?

In 2012, the University of Chicago’s Booth School of Business asked a panel of respected economists from across the political spectrum whether they believed an income tax cut today would lead to higher tax revenue five years from now, compared with a world with no tax cut. Not a single respondent said it would​

Arthur Laffer has a never-ending supply of supply-side plans for GOP

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Alrdy had this discussion with Buffet as exhibit A...remember he stated his Secretary was paying more taxes than him.....so what good would raising the rates do......

Raising the rates on everyone or the rich (defined by top 1% = $380,000 a year -- a few years ago)?

How many of the top one percent are in same situation as Buffet........

Warren Buffet is in the top 1% but he's also in the top 1/10 of 1% and ....

Warren Buffet uses more tax breaks than most. If he paid a little less than $7,000,000 in taxes one year and he said his tax rate was 17.4% -- Buffet had adjusted gross income of $40,000,000 that year but --- his wealth increased from 40 billion to 50 billion -- he gave billions away to foundations. Using the Simon definition of income, add up what Buffet spent, what he gave away, and the increase in his wealth.

If you look at Buffets' income that year it was $12 billion --

Buffet paid $7,000,000 in taxes for --- a 6 one-hundreths of one percent tax rate on his actual income

Using the Simon definition of income,

LOL!

Straight out if the mouth of Mister Supply Side himself: Arthur Laffer

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Arthur Laffer said quote: "We all want to increase tax rates on the rich. But we want to do it not by raising rates which won't work. We want to do it by lowering rates and broadening the base."

pay attention people like bripat9643 Oldstyle bedowin62 Toddsterpatriot Judicial review @ The rest of you

but "We all want to increase tax rates on the rich. But we want to do it not by raising rates..."?????

please, Supply siders, please explain

If you collect more taxes from the rich with a 15% cap gains rate than with a 20% cap gains rate, what do you do?

Moron Obama said he'd raise the rate, for fairness.
Smartest president my ass.

what would make you think that you would collect more from a 15% rate?

What makes you think they would collect more from a higher rate?

In 2012, the University of Chicago’s Booth School of Business asked a panel of respected economists from across the political spectrum whether they believed an income tax cut today would lead to higher tax revenue five years from now, compared with a world with no tax cut. Not a single respondent said it would​

Arthur Laffer has a never-ending supply of supply-side plans for GOP

whether they believed an income tax cut today

My comment was about capital gains taxes. They are different than income taxes.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Arthur Laffer said quote: "We all want to increase tax rates on the rich. But we want to do it not by raising rates which won't work. We want to do it by lowering rates and broadening the base."

pay attention people like bripat9643 Oldstyle bedowin62 Toddsterpatriot Judicial review @ The rest of you

but "We all want to increase tax rates on the rich. But we want to do it not by raising rates..."?????

please, Supply siders, please explain

If you collect more taxes from the rich with a 15% cap gains rate than with a 20% cap gains rate, what do you do?

Moron Obama said he'd raise the rate, for fairness.
Smartest president my ass.

what would make you think that you would collect more from a 15% rate?

What makes you think they would collect more from a higher rate?

In 2012, the University of Chicago’s Booth School of Business asked a panel of respected economists from across the political spectrum whether they believed an income tax cut today would lead to higher tax revenue five years from now, compared with a world with no tax cut. Not a single respondent said it would​

Arthur Laffer has a never-ending supply of supply-side plans for GOP

whether they believed an income tax cut today

My comment was about capital gains taxes. They are different than income taxes.

I asked about Laffer's comments -- you replied with

"If you collect more taxes from the rich with a 15% cap gains rate than with a 20% cap gains rate, what do you do?"

you added for some strange reason:
"Moron Obama said he'd raise the rate, for fairness."
"Smartest president my ass."

and you were asked:
"what would make you think that you would collect more from a 15% rate?"

and you replied:
"What makes you think they would collect more from a higher rate?"

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Alrdy had this discussion with Buffet as exhibit A...remember he stated his Secretary was paying more taxes than him.....so what good would raising the rates do......

Raising the rates on everyone or the rich (defined by top 1% = $380,000 a year -- a few years ago)?

How many of the top one percent are in same situation as Buffet........

Warren Buffet is in the top 1% but he's also in the top 1/10 of 1% and ....

Warren Buffet uses more tax breaks than most. If he paid a little less than $7,000,000 in taxes one year and he said his tax rate was 17.4% -- Buffet had adjusted gross income of $40,000,000 that year but --- his wealth increased from 40 billion to 50 billion -- he gave billions away to foundations. Using the Simon definition of income, add up what Buffet spent, what he gave away, and the increase in his wealth.

If you look at Buffets' income that year it was $12 billion --

Buffet paid $7,000,000 in taxes for --- a 6 one-hundreths of one percent tax rate on his actual income

Using the Simon definition of income,

LOL!

Straight out if the mouth of Mister Supply Side himself: Arthur Laffer

I know some supply-siders differ with Laffer on some things, but to mock his embrace of Haig-Simons, without explaining why is ridiculous.

Laffer also embraces a flat tax, and with that he uses the Simons def of income to explain how his views would/should work

 

[Dad2three]

Arthur Laffer said quote: "We all want to increase tax rates on the rich. But we want to do it not by raising rates which won't work. We want to do it by lowering rates and broadening the base."

pay attention people like bripat9643 Oldstyle bedowin62 Toddsterpatriot Judicial review @ The rest of you

but "We all want to increase tax rates on the rich. But we want to do it not by raising rates..."?????

please, Supply siders, please explain

If you collect more taxes from the rich with a 15% cap gains rate than with a 20% cap gains rate, what do you do?

Moron Obama said he'd raise the rate, for fairness.
Smartest president my ass.

what would make you think that you would collect more from a 15% rate?

What makes you think they would collect more from a higher rate?

In 2012, the University of Chicago’s Booth School of Business asked a panel of respected economists from across the political spectrum whether they believed an income tax cut today would lead to higher tax revenue five years from now, compared with a world with no tax cut. Not a single respondent said it would​

Arthur Laffer has a never-ending supply of supply-side plans for GOP

whether they believed an income tax cut today

My comment was about capital gains taxes. They are different than income taxes.

REFUTED YOUR BULLSHIT TALKING POINT ALREADY DUMMY


"We all want to increase tax rates on the rich." | Page 3 | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

"We all want to increase tax rates on the rich." | Page 2 | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Arthur Laffer said quote: "We all want to increase tax rates on the rich. But we want to do it not by raising rates which won't work. We want to do it by lowering rates and broadening the base."

pay attention people like bripat9643 Oldstyle bedowin62 Toddsterpatriot Judicial review @ The rest of you

but "We all want to increase tax rates on the rich. But we want to do it not by raising rates..."?????

please, Supply siders, please explain

Arthur Laffer also said quote:

President Clinton "btw cut the capital gains tax rate dramatically. He got rid of capital gains taxes on owner-occupied homes, ah, for everyone. Ah, he also got rid of the tax on, on , ah retirees working, ah which was the group between 65 and 72 (years of age). Ah, he also put in welfare reform. He also cut government spending as a share of GDP by more than the next 4 best Presidents combined"
​

President Clinton gets a lot of credit by a partisan who is not an ideological nincompoop in the way most are here.​

Now:

Warren Buffet is in the top 1% but he's also in the top 1/10 of 1% and ....

Warren Buffet uses more tax breaks than most. If he paid a little less than $7,000,000 in taxes one year and he said his tax rate was 17.4% -- Buffet had adjusted gross income of $40,000,000 that year but --- his wealth increased from 40 billion to 50 billion -- he gave billions away to foundations. Using the Simon definition of income, add up what Buffet spent, what he gave away, and the increase in his wealth.

If you look at Buffets' income that year it was $12 billion --

Buffet paid $7,000,000 in taxes for --- a 6 one-hundreths of one percent tax rate on his actual income

Top 1% or the rich:
the rich (defined by top 1% = $380,000 a year -- a few years ago)

Then there are the super rich like Buffet​

Should lower taxes across the board implementing a flat tax which is fairer than a variable tax where people who earn more get taxed a higher percentage. Not like the higher tax brackets actually end up paying those higher amounts anyway. Tax Code is thicker than the offspring of a Bible and metro phone book. Plus if in those higher tax brackets you're probably stashing your monies in offshore type refuges anyway. Any number of things cna be done to avoid ever paying anything close to the tax bracket you're in. Better then to have a lowe enough rate it's cost-ineffective to hire tax accountants to save ya money. More we tax the rich, more they leave US juridiction. So long as it's cost-effective for individuals and businesses to go to other countries, they will. If we want more tax revenue from business they have to be here. But they wont be if they're unfairly taxed.

 

[kaz]

Arthur Laffer said quote: "We all want to increase tax rates on the rich. But we want to do it not by raising rates which won't work. We want to do it by lowering rates and broadening the base."

pay attention people like bripat9643 Oldstyle bedowin62 Toddsterpatriot Judicial review @ The rest of you

but "We all want to increase tax rates on the rich. But we want to do it not by raising rates..."?????

please, Supply siders, please explain

If you collect more taxes from the rich with a 15% cap gains rate than with a 20% cap gains rate, what do you do?

Moron Obama said he'd raise the rate, for fairness.
Smartest president my ass.

what would make you think that you would collect more from a 15% rate?

W lowered the tax on repatriation of money from 30% to 5% for one year and got more tax revenue. When rates are fair, people don't work to evade them and pay more while focusing their efforts on economic efficiency

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Arthur Laffer said quote: "We all want to increase tax rates on the rich. But we want to do it not by raising rates which won't work. We want to do it by lowering rates and broadening the base."

pay attention people like bripat9643 Oldstyle bedowin62 Toddsterpatriot Judicial review @ The rest of you

but "We all want to increase tax rates on the rich. But we want to do it not by raising rates..."?????

please, Supply siders, please explain

If you collect more taxes from the rich with a 15% cap gains rate than with a 20% cap gains rate, what do you do?

Moron Obama said he'd raise the rate, for fairness.
Smartest president my ass.

what would make you think that you would collect more from a 15% rate?

What makes you think they would collect more from a higher rate?

In 2012, the University of Chicago’s Booth School of Business asked a panel of respected economists from across the political spectrum whether they believed an income tax cut today would lead to higher tax revenue five years from now, compared with a world with no tax cut. Not a single respondent said it would​

Arthur Laffer has a never-ending supply of supply-side plans for GOP

whether they believed an income tax cut today

My comment was about capital gains taxes. They are different than income taxes.

I asked about Laffer's comments -- you replied with

"If you collect more taxes from the rich with a 15% cap gains rate than with a 20% cap gains rate, what do you do?"

you added for some strange reason:
"Moron Obama said he'd raise the rate, for fairness."
"Smartest president my ass."

and you were asked:
"what would make you think that you would collect more from a 15% rate?"

and you replied:
"What makes you think they would collect more from a higher rate?"

I've been discussing cap gains taxes thru out.

you added for some strange reason:

"Moron Obama said he'd raise the rate, for fairness."
"Smartest president my ass."

The reason is because moron Obama, when asked about the cap gains tax rate said he'd raise it, for fairness, even though the higher rate would collect fewer tax dollars.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Arthur Laffer said quote: "We all want to increase tax rates on the rich. But we want to do it not by raising rates which won't work. We want to do it by lowering rates and broadening the base."

pay attention people like Oldstyle bedowin62 Toddsterpatriot Judicial review @ The rest of you

but "We all want to increase tax rates on the rich. But we want to do it not by raising rates..."?????

please, Supply siders, please explain

Right wingers want to "broaden the base"


Broadening the base? Oh right the bottom 50% of US who make 11% of ALL income (avg less than $15,000 PER FAMILY) down from 18%+ of income in 1980, need to step up *shaking head*

Which is why, if you want to understand who's paying what in taxes, you don't want to just look at federal income taxes, or federal payroll taxes, or state sales taxes -- you want to look at total taxes. And, luckily, the tax analysis group Citizens for Tax Justice keeps those numbers. So here is total taxes -- which includes corporate taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, state sales taxes, and more -- paid by different income groups and broken into federal and state and local burdens:

As you can see, the poorer you are, the more state and local taxes bite into your income. As you get richer, those taxes recede, and you're mainly getting hit be federal taxes. So that's another lesson: When you omit state and local taxes from your analysis, you're omitting the taxes that hit lower-income taxpayers hardest.

The one tax graph you really need to know

Bush really fucked over the middle and lower class these past 7 years that he's been President.

Er, whatever