Washington’s Bi-Partisan Russia-Bashers Are Determined to Start a War

[BlackSand]

Yeah, who cares?
This is barely interesting enough to grab my interest.

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You cared enough, and were interested enough to comment.

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America must convince those Nato members that they require US support. My opinion is that Nato is simply a tool of US aggression and the other members understand that and are balking at having to pay for it. You do understand that I'm a Canadian? So as a Canadian I'm pleased you've provided me an opportunity to answer your question.
If you desire further discussion on the Nato issue, we can do so if it's kept polite and civil.

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Since you choose to take that stance to answer the question ...

You being a Canadian ... And as Canada being a member of NATO who hasn't paid its bills ...
You can take your ideas about NATO and stand in the hallway with the other deadbeats while we eat lunch.

If you don't want our support ... You can go hungry.

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I doubt you are aware of my feeling for Trump, as that pertains to foreign policy on Russia. I'll just say briefly, without explanation, that I would prefer him to Biden.

I'm not really conversant with bi-partisan support on capitol hill as it pertains to Russia. I could only assume that domestic poltics will be laid aside in favour of a hawkish stance against Russia. Maybe you wish to expand on that theory?

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I actually never indicated I knew how you felt about President Trump and only asked how those feelings you may have
could have a significant impact on the topic of the thread.

Furthermore ... The topic is specifically about the Bi-Partisan Hawkish stance towards Russia that you keep saying nothing about.
I don't need to expand on my theory ... You just need to post something that isn't simply repeating the title of the thread.

I have offered several other ideas on the topic, but you don't seem to want to discuss those.

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[BlackSand]

I always would prefer than Canada not become involved in US aggression but we do have the Nato commitment to consider.
I would suppose that Trudeau would be opposed to Canada's membership in Nato, but is faced with the fact that a large majority of Canadians could still consider Nato of some use. However, the question hasn't been asked of Canadians so far and so I don't know what the answer would be.
I can only say that some Nato members are showing signs of balking on Nato support.
Can you confine your remarks to one post so I don't have to repeat myself?

.

I can deal with that answer ... Thanks.

My position on NATO and the US, as I have expressed in this thread, is that we need to decide where our best interests reside.
That's not too far from what you are saying about the Canadian people ... At least we can agree on that.

Of course, I won't avoid the idea that I don't like it when Countries fail to meet their obligations.

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[francoHFW]

Believe it or not guys, there was a time, when folks on the left, actually had the ability to think and reason, and not be led around by the neo-liberal spooks in the consortium media.

Do you know who Robert Parry is? He's the guy that blew the Iran-Contra Scandal wide open, and helped cover Water-Gate. He was, R.I.P., one of the most respected muckraking reporters on the left, who had to leave the corporate MSM, because they are all owned by the military industrial warmongers. This, as NC has rightly pointed out, is NOT a winger issue, it is an issue that all Americans should be concerned about.

HERE, here is a POV from the left, from one of the most respected journalists this nation has ever produced. circa 2015, just after the Obama administration funded and organized the coup in Ukraine.

Robert Parry (journalist)​

Robert Earle Parry (June 24, 1949 – January 27, 2018)[1] was an American investigative journalist. He was best known for his role in covering the Iran-Contra affair for the Associated Press (AP) and Newsweek, including breaking the Psychological Operations in Guerrilla Warfare (CIA manual provided to the Nicaraguan contras) and the CIA involvement in Contra cocaine trafficking in the U.S. scandal in 1985.

He was awarded the George Polk Award for National Reporting in 1984 and the I.F. Stone Medal for Journalistic Independence by Harvard's Nieman Foundation in 2015.

Parry was the editor of ConsortiumNews.com from 1995 until his death in 2018.[2]

Robert Parry (journalist) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

ROBERT PARRY: Playing Nuclear Chicken Over Ukraine​

January 21, 2022
With U.S.-Russia tension over Ukraine reaching its most dangerous point, we look back at early warnings about the crisis delivered by Robert Parry in March 2015.
A version of this article first appeared on March 2, 2015.

ROBERT PARRY: Playing Nuclear Chicken Over Ukraine - Consortium News

With U.S.-Russia tension over Ukraine reaching its most dangerous point, we look back at early warnings about the crisis delivered by Robert Parry in March

consortiumnews.com

"The United States and Russia still maintain vast nuclear arsenals of mutual assured destruction, putting the future of humanity in jeopardy every instant. But an unnerving nonchalance has settled over the American side which has become so casual about the risk of cataclysmic war that the West’s propaganda and passions now ignore Russian fears and sensitivities.

A swaggering goofiness has come to dominate how the United States reacts to Russia, with American politicians and journalists dashing off tweets and op-eds, rushing to judgment about the perfidy of Moscow’s leaders, blaming them for almost anything and everything.. . . .

<snip>

. . . When I spoke to the nuclear conference, I noted how the U.S. media/political system had helped create just that sort of crisis in Ukraine, with every “important” person jumping in on the side of the Kiev coup-makers in February 2014 when they overthrew elected President Viktor Yanukovych.

Since then, nearly every detail of that conflict has been seen through the prism of “our side good/their side bad.” Facts that put “our side” in a negative light, such as the key role played by neo-Nazis and the Kiev regime’s brutal “anti-terrorism operation,” are downplayed or ignored.

Conversely, anything that makes the Ukrainians who are resisting Kiev’s authority look bad gets hyped and even invented, such as one New York Times’ lead story citing photos that supposedly proved Russian military involvement but quickly turned out to be fraudulent. [See Consortium News‘ “NYT Retracts Russian Photo Scoop.”]

At pivotal moments in the crisis, such as the Feb. 20, 2014 sniper fire that killed both police and protesters and the July 17, 2014 shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 killing 298 passengers and crew, the U.S. political/media establishment has immediately pinned the blame on Yanukovych, the ethnic Russian rebels who are resisting his ouster, or Putin.

Then, when evidence emerged going in the opposite direction — toward “our side” — a studied silence followed, allowing the earlier propaganda to stay in place as part of the preferred storyline. [See, for instance, Consortium News‘s “President Gollum’s ‘Precious’ Secrets.”]

<snip>

Russian Regime Change

Even President Barack Obama and other U.S. leaders who have yet to publicly endorse arming the Kiev coup-makers enjoy boasting about how much pain they are inflicting on the Russian economy and its government. In effect, there is a U.S. strategy of making the Russian economy “scream,” a first step toward a larger neocon goal to achieve “regime change” in Moscow.

Another point I made in my talk on Saturday was how the neocons are good at drafting “regime change” plans that sound great when discussed at a think tank or outlined on an op-ed page but often fail to survive in the real world, such as their 2003 plan for a smooth transition in Iraq to replace Saddam Hussein with someone of their choosing except that it didn’t work out that way.

Perhaps the greatest danger from the new neocon dream for “regime change” in Moscow is that whoever follows Putin might not be the pliable yes man that the neocons envision, but a fierce Russian nationalist who would suddenly have control of their nuclear launch codes and might decide that it’s time for the United States to make concessions or face annihilation.

On March 3, The Washington Post‘s neocon editorialists emphasized the need for ousting Putin as they anti-Putin activists who have urged an escalation of Western pressure on Russia. The Post wrote: “They say he [Putin] can be stopped only by steps that decisively raise the cost of his military aggression and cripple the financial system that sustains his regime.”

Yet, what I find truly remarkable about the Ukraine crisis is that it was always relatively simple to resolve: Before the coup, Yanukovych agreed to reduced powers and early elections so he could be voted out of office. Then, either he or some new leadership could have crafted an economic arrangement that expanded ties to the EU while not severing them with Russia.

Even after the coup, the new regime could have negotiated a federalized system that granted more independence to the disenfranchised ethnic Russians of eastern Ukraine, rather than launch a brutal “anti-terrorist operation” against those resisting the new authorities. But Official Washington’s “group think” has been single-minded: only bellicose anti-Russian sentiments are permitted and no suggestions of accommodation are allowed. . . . "

I will continue to go with journalists around the world thousands of them who care about the truth. Not your goddamn one TV channel and three newspapers owned by international scumbag Rupert Murdock, brainwashed functional moron.

 

[francoHFW]

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Okay ... But what about the topic?

What do you think about the bi-partisan effort on Capitol Hill to act tough against Russia?
If you really don't know what to say, just tell us what they are saying on the 100 channels you can watch.

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I support Democrats who use diplomacy, not swine GOP incompetent loud Mouths who starts stupid wars all the time. Iraq Afghanistan because they allowed 9/11 through stupidity. I support the West and the Ukraine government because Putin is a total swine for years now and is threatening an Ally. Stop listening to crap GOP propaganda which is hard to tell from Russian propaganda these days. Funny thing...

 

[BlackSand]

I will continue to go with journalists around the world thousands of them who care about the truth. Not your goddamn one TV channel and three newspapers owned by international scumbag Rupert Murdock, brainwashed functional moron.

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You aren't talking about Journalist ... You are talking about Commentators that might as well be at the WWE World Championships.
They are as much of the problem as any of the clowns on Capitol Hill.

The only real difference between them and the Bipartisan efforts to bash Russia ... Are the silly fools they are cheerleading for in the ring.

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[BlackSand]

I support Democrats who use diplomacy, not swine GOP incompetent loud Mouths who starts stupid wars all the time. Iraq Afghanistan because they allowed 9/11 through stupidity. I support the West and the Ukraine government because Putin is a total swine for years now and is threatening an Ally. Stop listening to crap GOP propaganda which is hard to tell from Russian propaganda these days. Funny thing...

.

You seem to have difficulty understanding propaganda when the propaganda is something you want to hear versus something you don't want to hear.
The topic of the thread is how people like you, and the people you hate, are both using propaganda to bash Russia ...
With the full support of whatever nitwits you may have on your side on Capitol Hill.

.​

 

[francoHFW]

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You aren't talking about Journalist ... You are talking about Commentators that might as well be at the WWE World Championships.
They are as much of the problem as any of the clown on Capitol Hill.

The only real difference between them and the Bipartisan efforts to bash Russia ... Are the silly fools they are cheerleading for in the ring.

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I am no way defending our cable news which is all pundits going on endlessly with devices arguments and giving Republican BS a place to be heard. There is a hell of a lot more to the world than just CNN and MSNBC and the United States Media which is a disgrace at this point. Al Jazeera has more foreign offices and reporters than all of our media together lol. Clickbait and controversy is more important than the news. That's why I want the BBC and France 24 and the German news whenever they are on. But they all agree with the CNN Outlook and not your garbage propaganda. The only people who agree with your garbage propaganda in the world is the Russians who are also bought off swine oligarch assholes.....

 

[Donald H]

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I can deal with that answer ... Thanks.

My position on NATO and the US, as I have expressed in this thread, is that we need to decide where our best interests reside.


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Yes, we're agreed in principle. But I doubt we would be able to find agreement on what I see as America's best interests. You already understand my position that Nato is nothing more than America's tool for ongoing aggression.

And I'll just add to that to make the point more clearly. I would suggest that if it wasn't for the sake of appearances, America would foot the Nato bill all by itself. The gain far, far outweighs the trivial cost!

You see, America is already compromising its position by allowing the situation to exist in which there are nations not paying their fair share. That seems to beg the question on why America hasn't said goodbye to Nato wouldn't it!

So Trump suggested that would/could happen and then was handed an explanation covertly on why he shouldn't go there.

Your opinion? Does mine make any sense to you?

 

[BlackSand]

I am no way defending our cable news which is all pundits going on endlessly with devices arguments and giving Republican BS a place to be heard. There is a hell of a lot more to the world than just CNN and MSNBC and the United States Media which is a disgrace at this point. Al Jazeera has more foreign offices and reporters than all of our media together lol. Clickbait and controversy is more important than the news. That's why I want the BBC and France 24 and the German news whenever they are on. But they all agree with the CNN Outlook and not your garbage propaganda. The only people who agree with your garbage propaganda in the world is the Russians who are also bought off swine oligarch assholes.....

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You haven't addressed a thing about the topic of the thread.
It's not about Al Jazeera, CNN, Rupert Murdock or the BBC.

It's not about your political affiliations, or what propaganda you may desire the most.
It's about how the people on both sides of the aisle in Congress are bashing Russia and the possible negative impact that may have.

Please try to save your nonsensical cheerleading for a thread that may be more appropriate.
Or at least express your ideas about why you think they should or shouldn't do it.

.​

 

[francoHFW]

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You seem to have difficulty understanding propaganda when the propaganda is something you want to hear versus something you don't want to hear.
The topic of the thread is how people like you, and the people you hate, are both using propaganda to bash Russia ...
With the full support of whatever nitwits you may have on your side on Capitol Hill.

.​

You believe a load of crap and the world of journalism doesn't, the world of Democrats not swine and fools like the GOP of today. If you have cable, watch French 24 BBC and DW news from 5:00 to 7:00 or it's online. The world has a tradition for hundreds of years of journalism which is seeking the truth, and you believe absolute garbage They call opinion based on crap, from people who have been blaring what turns out to be garbage propaganda for only 25 years. Why cuz you are an ignoramus who is easily duped.... The silent majority has become the loudmouth majority. They were always wrong but now they just are a danger to democracy. Poor America. Yeah sure yes yes Putin is a lovely man lol. Whatever you're watching is crap lol

 

[francoHFW]

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You haven't addressed a thing about the topic of the thread.
It's not about Al Jazeera, CNN, Rupert Murdock or the BBC.

It's not about your political affiliations, or what propaganda you may desire the most.
It's about how the people on both sides of the aisle in Congress are bashing Russia and the possible negative impact that may have.

Please try to save your nonsensical cheerleading for a thread that may be more appropriate.
Or at least express your ideas about why you think they should or shouldn't do it.

.​

So how much is the corrupt oligarchy of Russia paying you for being such a doofus lol? Maybe you should try democracy and get rid of all your corruptions. They say Putin is worth $2 00 billion now and it's no joke whatever the actual amount is...

 

[BlackSand]

Yes, we're agreed in principle. But I doubt we would be able to find agreement on what I see as America's best interests. You already understand my position that Nato is nothing more than America's tool for ongoing aggression.

And I'll just add to that to make the point more clearly. I would suggest that if it wasn't for the sake of appearances, America would foot the Nato bill all by itself. The gain far, far outweighs the trivial cost!

You see, America is already compromising its position by allowing the situation to exist in which there are nations not paying their fair share. That seems to beg the question on why America hasn't said goodbye to Nato wouldn't it!

So Trump suggested that would/could happen and then was handed an explanation covertly on why he shouldn't go there.

Your opinion? Does mine make any sense to you?

.

With the exception of the fact I did serve alongside some fine Canadian soldiers in the past, joint operations ...
I think you may have a fairly limited view of world conditions and consequences.

I am not calling you unreasonable ... Just that when you are in the dirt things look a whole lot different.

I know there are bad people in the world that answer to nothing other than aggression.
You may be able to ignore that, and in the comfort of your surroundings.

Still ... I have no problem sleeping at night ...
It's just dirty work and there is almost never anything clean about it.

.​

 

[francoHFW]

Yes, we're agreed in principle. But I doubt we would be able to find agreement on what I see as America's best interests. You already understand my position that Nato is nothing more than America's tool for ongoing aggression.

And I'll just add to that to make the point more clearly. I would suggest that if it wasn't for the sake of appearances, America would foot the Nato bill all by itself. The gain far, far outweighs the trivial cost!

You see, America is already compromising its position by allowing the situation to exist in which there are nations not paying their fair share. That seems to beg the question on why America hasn't said goodbye to Nato wouldn't it!

So Trump suggested that would/could happen and then was handed an explanation covertly on why he shouldn't go there.

Your opinion? Does mine make any sense to you?

The EU is paying what we ask them to pay... Change the channel. Get rid of corrupt Putin and try democracy and honesty for a change....

 

[BlackSand]

So how much is the corrupt oligarchy of Russia paying you for being such a doofus lol? Maybe you should try democracy and get rid of all your corruptions. They say Putin is worth $2 00 billion now and it's no joke whatever the actual amount is...

.

What does that have to do with the topic of the thread?

.​

 

[Donald H]

The EU is paying what we ask them to pay... Change the channel. Get rid of corrupt Putin and try democracy and honesty for a change....

The military mind understands very well the reason why America's major starting point is the need to somehow get rid of Putin. No progress is possible for America until that happens.

Putin is the same resolute and strong position as his KGB upbringing that's a brick wall against which America's strategists bash their heads.

Some are paying their Nato bills. My understanding is that some are not.

 

[Donald H]

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With the exception of the fact I did serve alongside some fine Canadian soldiers in the past, joint operations ...
I think you may have a fairly limited view of world conditions and consequences.

I am not calling you unreasonable ... Just that when you are in the dirt things look a whole lot different.

I know there are bad people in the world that answer to nothing other than aggression.
You may be able to ignore that, and in the comfort of your surroundings.

Still ... I have no problem sleeping at night ...
It's just dirty work and there is almost never anything clean about it.

.​

Suffice to say that we have a major difference of opinion on which side is the aggressor. You will do better trying to reconcile those same differing opinions amongst your fellow Americans right now.

Later, as the situation develops fully, those differences will magically evaporate away.

 

[BlackSand]

Suffice to say that we have a major difference of opinion on which side is the aggressor. You will do better trying to reconcile those same differing opinions amongst your fellow Americans right now.

Later, as the situation develops fully, those differences will magically evaporate away.

.

If I am standing on a corner opening the door to a school for a 12-year-old girl who has never been there ...
And you think that makes me the aggressor ... Thanks, and don't the mistake of thinking I have a problem with your opinion.

.​

 

[Donald H]

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If I am standing on a corner opening the door to a school for a 12-year-old girl who has never been there ...
And you think that makes me the aggressor ... Thanks, and don't the mistake of thinking I have a problem with your opinion.

.​

I think I get your point but I'm not completely sure? If it matter to you then clear that up for me.

 

[BlackSand]

I think I get your point but I'm not completely sure? If it matter to you then clear that up for me.

.

There is no real disconnect ... It's easier than you think.

Someone can find a problem in just about everything ...
It's only the people on the ground that do what they can that ever makes a difference.

It's nice to sit and chat about all the things that could be ...
Or the way that everything should be ...
But there is usually a world of difference when it comes to accomplishing something.

You can almost be certain it is going to piss someone off, and it isn't going to be pretty.
Welcome to the real world.

.​

 

[BlackSand]

Another Republican with a “feel sorry for Russia” blog? Surprise.

Everyone knows our action will be trade embargoes and such. No major power has attacked another major power since when?

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There is a difference in feeling sorry for Russia and being concerned about our efforts.

So far ... Everything we have done is reactionary, including recent deployments to the theater.
Continued aggression, especially as a countermeasure to Putin's aggression, sets up several scenarios.

I would guess (and it is a guess) that Putin is betting on our over-indulgence in rhetoric over mission ...
Poorly supported and lacking the directness it should have.

There are some things that have been known since the beginning of organized warfare.
If Putin drags us into a prolonged conflict or even a Mexican Standoff ... He already has the high ground.
His rear end is well supported ... Ours is a world away.

If you ever go into a conflict ... You need to go in it to win it.
I am not even sure our side knows what the win would look like.

If we aren't going to fight ... We need to take notes from our recent failures.
Save our soldiers the trouble of dying for poorly established nonsense.

.​