Was the 2012 Election a Watershed Moment in U.S. History?

[boedicca]

Taxing The Rich has always been Phase I of taxing everyone else.

 

[rightwinger]

Taxing The Rich has always been Phase I of taxing everyone else.

Actually, it hasn't been

 

[Oldstyle]

Welcome to fantasy island

The GOP House has been the worst in modern times

The GOP House simply did what they were sent to Washington by the voters to do...stop progressives from passing idiotic legislation like Cap & Trade and waste more money we don't have on another stimulus just as flawed as the first one.

The "fantasy" here is that Barack Obama ever HAD a plan to fix the economy. He got elected on a vague promise and then spent the next four years blaming everyone but himself for not living up to that vague promise. As amusing as that was he managed to convince enough Americans that Mitt Romney was the Boogey Man that they reelected someone who has repeatedly demonstrated that he has neither the aptitude nor the experience necessary to make the tough calls on governing this country.

We needed someone to fix things...instead we got the Paris Hilton of politics...someone who is famous but does nothing.

Bull Shit...Cap and Trade was already dead in the water. Obama used his political capital to pass Obamacare. Cap and Trade was put on the back burner

The Republican Congress passed no meaningful legislation after promising Jobs, Jobs, Jobs if the gulible public put them in charge. They delivered NOTHING

Over 8% unemployment ....they did NOTHING

The only purpose of the Republican Congress was to protect unneeded tax breaks for bilionaires. At that they were successful

Cap & Trade was "dead in the water" because the American people were already so pissed off about the Democrats ignoring their pleas to make healthcare more affordable and passing ObamaCare instead that they sent Republicans to Washington in unprecedented numbers. Cap & Trade was put on the back burner because Barry, Harry and Nancy couldn't talk anymore Democrats into committing political suicide supporting a bill that would destroy our economy and put millions more out of work.

As for the Republicans doing "NOTHING"?

They passed over twenty bills in the House which then sat on Harry Reid's desk. You can't pass legislation when you only control one of the three legislative branches. Harry Reid wouldn't even bring those House bills to the floor of the Senate...blocking them from even being discussed on the floor let alone voted on!

The truth is unemployment would be much worse than 8% in this country if it weren't for Republican governors turning around States like North Dakota, Texas and Ohio. Blaming high levels of unemployment on Republicans when the Democrats haven't even put forth a credible plan to lower unemployment in over two years is laughable. Obama gave us a "jobs bill" that he knew didn't have a prayer of being passed simply because it was nothing more than a watered down version of his original stimulus that produced only a tiny number of jobs while spending nearly a trillion dollars.

 

[Oldstyle]

Posts I am most aligned with:

rightwinger
2012 was watershed in that it saved Obamacare and prevented the Conservatives from stacking the Supreme Court

francoHFW
Saved O-care, ending 30 years of Voodoo giveaway to the rich, ruin of the nonrich and the country-. 2014 will prove it so, then maybe the victorious Dems can bring back the Fairness Doctrine and end BS propaganda that's ruining the dupes and political discourse.

francoHFW
I really believe we're back on track for the first time since 1968, and even 1963 in some ways- moral leadership, the Great Society, and all that...

boedicca
This election was a watershed because it proved that those who take from the government in one form of another now officially outnumber those who produce.
(This is a truth that needs to be turned around as alluded to in francoHFW's post directly preceding. Not sure how boedicca meant it.)

Sallow
1. Yes. And we are probably headed toward a more realistic approach to the world.
2. Yes.
3. No.
4. Yes.
5. A beacon for good governance, human rights and responsible stewardship of the planet.
(Number one is think is the most significant answer from the questions given. Debt is going to be as serious drag just as any family who has come to the realization it is time to pay off the debt suffers very noticeably.)

One I kind of agree with but is the reason I am making a post in the first place.
JoeB131
I see 2008 as the watershed, not 2012. 2012 just reaffirmed what we voted for in 008.
As far as out status as a nation, countries are becoming less and less important in a globalized world.
(Without 2012 2008 would be washed away, with Mitt is would be expunged from all recorded history. 2012 is the booster stage that gets the rocket into orbit. 2014 is very important and maybe even necessary for ultimate success. I think many of us, myself included, may have voted in 2010 but did not put enough into the overall success of the midterms, won't make that mistake again.)

2012 is a watershed moment in the history of mankind in that it is a new technological era. Whether we destroy Frankenstein or make him into a more beautiful person is our challenge of the day. I believe Obama is the most perfect person, as imperfect as he may be , for this moment. We face either the Renaissance or we face the Dark Ages. I think it no less of a challenge. Things will not happen just because 'they were meant to be.' They will happen because of the choices we make. I pray we pass this trial with honor.

For the love of God...what makes Barack Obama "the most perfect person...for this moment"? I'm totally baffled when progressives repeat this belief. What is it that Barry has done that makes you think he's in any way competent to handle even minor challenges let alone the major ones we now face.

He's the guy that voted "Present" all those times in the Illinois State Senate...the guy who was a mediocre lawyer...the guy who was a non-entity as a professor...the guy who was a complete failure at writing legislation that was passable. I'm sorry, Empty...but when I refer to Barack Obama as the Paris Hilton of politics I'm really not kidding. He's famous but he's done NOTHING his entire adult life that warrants that fame. He's a man who took being elected the first black President of the Harvard Law Review and milked that "gift" for a subsequent lifetime of show jobs. He was given a Nobel Peace Prize for just showing up at the White House! I have to shake my head in amazement at this belief by people like yourself that Barack Obama is somehow "special". He's really not...

 

[emptystep]

Republicans put republicans in the house in 2010 and they did it based a 'moral' agenda. It had nothing to do with economic or foreign policy.

Yell at me over on 'what the GOP should do' thread. It will be much more fruitful. After all for the Love of God be fruitful and multiply. OK, we're going to skip that second one.

 

[mudwhistle]

.

My guess is that it was a turning point election. While the GOP evidently wants to deny it, there is a permanent and irreversible demographic shift taking place, and the Democrats have clearly beaten the Republicans to the punch. The GOP has made no discernible effort to reach out to minorities and women, while the Dems have made it a top priority. And now, any effort the GOP makes may very well have the stink of desperation and insincerity.

The GOP has its work cut out for it. It has to change its messaging, marginalize its loons and find some decent leadership. And all that, before it even decides whether it wants to dial back on the issues.

No doubt we're headed towards significantly more dependence on government. If the GOP doesn't like that, they'd better start looking in the mirror before it's too late. Less effort worrying about birth certificates, turkeys and pledges, and more effort getting their shit together and gathering voters.

.

You talk as if the Dems didn't cheat.

I read an article the other day about a guy who's retarded brother was home for Thanksgiving from his usual assisted living arrangements.

Out of the clear blue his brother says "Obama's going to save me".

Now why would he say that?

Because one of the Democrat party's representatives showed up at their facility and offered to give all of the mentally handicapped a ride to the polls. Course while they were driving there somebody was instructing them on the proper way to vote, which is against the law.

 

[Freemason9]

What's amusing to me is the notion by progressives that their agenda would make things better.

The truth is...the only reason that the economy has recovered as much as it has is that the GOP took back the House from the Democrats and put the kabosh on Obama's plan to implement Cap & Trade legislation.

The first year and a half of Barry's "reign" showed that progressives by nature are incapable of staying within a budget or in running any type of an organization that's functional. Another four years of the most unqualified President we've had in generations will simply highlight his ineptitude.

Actually, it can be seen that the recovery stalled after the GOP took the house. Check it out.

 

[Oldstyle]

Republicans put republicans in the house in 2010 and they did it based a 'moral' agenda. It had nothing to do with economic or foreign policy.

Yell at me over on 'what the GOP should do' thread. It will be much more fruitful. After all for the Love of God be fruitful and multiply. OK, we're going to skip that second one.

I'm an agnostic, Empty...who is pro-choice, has no problem with same sex marriage or gun controls on assault weapons...I didn't vote for Mitt Romney because I'm some far right "zealot"...I voted for him because in my opinion he had the skills to do the job of President. I didn't vote for Barack Obama in either 2008 or in this last election because I don't think he has ever had a plan to fix things like the economy or joblessness.

I don't cast my vote based on vague promises...I cast my vote on a person's past history of accomplishment. Barack Obama has no such history...I'm sorry but he doesn't. He'll fail in his second term just as he did in this first term simply because he doesn't know what he's doing and he's surrounded himself with people just like himself that also don't know what they are doing.

 

[Oldstyle]

What's amusing to me is the notion by progressives that their agenda would make things better.

The truth is...the only reason that the economy has recovered as much as it has is that the GOP took back the House from the Democrats and put the kabosh on Obama's plan to implement Cap & Trade legislation.

The first year and a half of Barry's "reign" showed that progressives by nature are incapable of staying within a budget or in running any type of an organization that's functional. Another four years of the most unqualified President we've had in generations will simply highlight his ineptitude.

Actually, it can be seen that the recovery stalled after the GOP took the house. Check it out.

Was it really a recovery when what we were doing was spending a trillion dollars of borrowed money to keep people in the public sector working? The so called recovery stalled when that borrowed money ran out. It was terrible fiscal policy, Free...based on a faulty economic premise. This notion that we can fix things by raising taxes on the wealthy is just one more faulty economic premise. We're talking about the revenue side when we are bleeding out on the spending side which nobody in this Administration has even made a half-hearted attempt to tackle.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

No flames, please. I am just wondering how you see this election from an historical perspective. Does it signal a fundamental change in the relationship between our government and people and if so, in what direction are we headed? Will we remain the world's economic superpower? Will our debt become an albatross around our necks? Will religion still play an important role in our national identity? Where do you see us in 50 years?

If the GOP had lost the House, I'd have said yes. Or even if the Democrats had gone back to 60 seats in the Senate.

But they didn't. Status quo prevailed ultimately. Obama was re-elected, the House stayed in GOP control, and the Senate stayed in DNC control. Some gains were made by the DNC, but ultimately that has to do with demographics and the fact that some of the GOP Senate candidates deserved to lose for being idiots.

Ultimately, nothing real changed.

 

[rightwinger]

The GOP House simply did what they were sent to Washington by the voters to do...stop progressives from passing idiotic legislation like Cap & Trade and waste more money we don't have on another stimulus just as flawed as the first one.

The "fantasy" here is that Barack Obama ever HAD a plan to fix the economy. He got elected on a vague promise and then spent the next four years blaming everyone but himself for not living up to that vague promise. As amusing as that was he managed to convince enough Americans that Mitt Romney was the Boogey Man that they reelected someone who has repeatedly demonstrated that he has neither the aptitude nor the experience necessary to make the tough calls on governing this country.

We needed someone to fix things...instead we got the Paris Hilton of politics...someone who is famous but does nothing.

Bull Shit...Cap and Trade was already dead in the water. Obama used his political capital to pass Obamacare. Cap and Trade was put on the back burner

The Republican Congress passed no meaningful legislation after promising Jobs, Jobs, Jobs if the gulible public put them in charge. They delivered NOTHING

Over 8% unemployment ....they did NOTHING

The only purpose of the Republican Congress was to protect unneeded tax breaks for bilionaires. At that they were successful

Cap & Trade was "dead in the water" because the American people were already so pissed off about the Democrats ignoring their pleas to make healthcare more affordable and passing ObamaCare instead that they sent Republicans to Washington in unprecedented numbers. Cap & Trade was put on the back burner because Barry, Harry and Nancy couldn't talk anymore Democrats into committing political suicide supporting a bill that would destroy our economy and put millions more out of work.

As for the Republicans doing "NOTHING"?

They passed over twenty bills in the House which then sat on Harry Reid's desk. You can't pass legislation when you only control one of the three legislative branches. Harry Reid wouldn't even bring those House bills to the floor of the Senate...blocking them from even being discussed on the floor let alone voted on!

The truth is unemployment would be much worse than 8% in this country if it weren't for Republican governors turning around States like North Dakota, Texas and Ohio. Blaming high levels of unemployment on Republicans when the Democrats haven't even put forth a credible plan to lower unemployment in over two years is laughable. Obama gave us a "jobs bill" that he knew didn't have a prayer of being passed simply because it was nothing more than a watered down version of his original stimulus that produced only a tiny number of jobs while spending nearly a trillion dollars.

Republicans played politics and sent up bills they knew were blatant pandering to their Conservative base. Passing legislation is not the "my way or the highway" process that Republicans push. Minority parties have managed to pass legislation for hundreds of years. It involves compromise, give a little to get a little, win-win propositions

Republicans have been obsessed with shutting down government if they don't get their way

Republican motto..."If we can't call the shots, then we will make damned sure that nobody else can"

 

[emptystep]

Republicans put republicans in the house in 2010 and they did it based a 'moral' agenda. It had nothing to do with economic or foreign policy.

Yell at me over on 'what the GOP should do' thread. It will be much more fruitful. After all for the Love of God be fruitful and multiply. OK, we're going to skip that second one.

I'm an agnostic, Empty...who is pro-choice, has no problem with same sex marriage or gun controls on assault weapons...I didn't vote for Mitt Romney because I'm some far right "zealot"...I voted for him because in my opinion he had the skills to do the job of President. I didn't vote for Barack Obama in either 2008 or in this last election because I don't think he has ever had a plan to fix things like the economy or joblessness.

I don't cast my vote based on vague promises...I cast my vote on a person's past history of accomplishment. Barack Obama has no such history...I'm sorry but he doesn't. He'll fail in his second term just as he did in this first term simply because he doesn't know what he's doing and he's surrounded himself with people just like himself that also don't know what they are doing.

Off topic but wonder if going back through American history if there is a certain profession or characteristic that foretells a great president.

 

[rightwinger]

.

My guess is that it was a turning point election. While the GOP evidently wants to deny it, there is a permanent and irreversible demographic shift taking place, and the Democrats have clearly beaten the Republicans to the punch. The GOP has made no discernible effort to reach out to minorities and women, while the Dems have made it a top priority. And now, any effort the GOP makes may very well have the stink of desperation and insincerity.

The GOP has its work cut out for it. It has to change its messaging, marginalize its loons and find some decent leadership. And all that, before it even decides whether it wants to dial back on the issues.

No doubt we're headed towards significantly more dependence on government. If the GOP doesn't like that, they'd better start looking in the mirror before it's too late. Less effort worrying about birth certificates, turkeys and pledges, and more effort getting their shit together and gathering voters.

.

You talk as if the Dems didn't cheat.

I read an article the other day about a guy who's retarded brother was home for Thanksgiving from his usual assisted living arrangements.

Out of the clear blue his brother says "Obama's going to save me".

Now why would he say that?

Because one of the Democrat party's representatives showed up at their facility and offered to give all of the mentally handicapped a ride to the polls. Course while they were driving there somebody was instructing them on the proper way to vote, which is against the law.

History will show that it was the Republicans who cheated in 2012

Blocking voter registrations, imposing more red tape, challenging voters at the polling sites, blocking early voting, creating voting lines that were hours long

All in the name of democracy

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Off topic but wonder if going back through American history if there is a certain profession or characteristic that foretells a great president.

Governors tend to do well, but they form the vast majority regardless.

The trait I actually look for the most in a President is the ability to recognize and follow good advice as well as recognize and disregard bad advice. Toss in the all too rare ability to recognize and abandon bad decisions and that's a win. The job is too big for one man, the team around him is arguably as important if not more so.

 

[emptystep]

Off topic but wonder if going back through American history if there is a certain profession or characteristic that foretells a great president.

Governors tend to do well, but they form the vast majority regardless.

The trait I actually look for the most in a President is the ability to recognize and follow good advice as well as recognize and disregard bad advice. Toss in the all too rare ability to recognize and abandon bad decisions and that's a win. The job is too big for one man, the team around him is arguably as important if not more so.

I agree with the number of governors. Sorry not to be more familiar with you, our paths have not crossed much I guess, did/does Obama fit your metrics, within the bell curve you might say.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I agree with the number of governors. Sorry not to be more familiar with you, our paths have not crossed much I guess, did/does Obama fit your metrics, within the bell curve you might say.

No. But Romney really didn't either. The campaign and how it is run actually tells you a lot about the candidate. Obama ran a fairly awesome campaign in 2008, but unfortunately didn't make the transition to governing well. I'd have voted against him, but Romney ran a terrible campaign.

If you can't run a campaign, you've got no shot at being capable of governing. Campaigns require a coordinated team effort and the ability to prioritize and use resources well. The reelection should be about showcasing how well you transitioned from campaign mode to governing mode.

Romney basically proved he didn't have the skill set to do the job by running one of the most inept campaigns I've seen in my lifetime. I ended up giving Obama a second chance at transitioning to governing because of that.

 

[mudwhistle]

what's amusing to me is the notion by progressives that their agenda would make things better.

The truth is...the only reason that the economy has recovered as much as it has is that the gop took back the house from the democrats and put the kabosh on obama's plan to implement cap & trade legislation.

The first year and a half of barry's "reign" showed that progressives by nature are incapable of staying within a budget or in running any type of an organization that's functional. Another four years of the most unqualified president we've had in generations will simply highlight his ineptitude.

actually, it can be seen that the recovery stalled after the gop took the house. Check it out.

lmao!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Freemason9]

What's amusing to me is the notion by progressives that their agenda would make things better.

The truth is...the only reason that the economy has recovered as much as it has is that the GOP took back the House from the Democrats and put the kabosh on Obama's plan to implement Cap & Trade legislation.

The first year and a half of Barry's "reign" showed that progressives by nature are incapable of staying within a budget or in running any type of an organization that's functional. Another four years of the most unqualified President we've had in generations will simply highlight his ineptitude.

Actually, it can be seen that the recovery stalled after the GOP took the house. Check it out.

Was it really a recovery when what we were doing was spending a trillion dollars of borrowed money to keep people in the public sector working? The so called recovery stalled when that borrowed money ran out. It was terrible fiscal policy, Free...based on a faulty economic premise. This notion that we can fix things by raising taxes on the wealthy is just one more faulty economic premise. We're talking about the revenue side when we are bleeding out on the spending side which nobody in this Administration has even made a half-hearted attempt to tackle.

I would agree with your assertion that the economic recovery was largely fueled by deficit spending, Oldstyle. That was also the case in Reagan's recovery and W. Bush's recovery as well. We have historically engaged in deficit spending to stave off economic recessions. The only thing different in Obama's case was the magnitude--however, the recession was far, far deeper than the examples I cited. It needed a big stimulus.

I know that Republicans are suddenly quite concerned about the the deficit (remembering the Bush years, when the GOP said "deficits don't matter"). Can you explain to me how Americans are being damaged by the deficit? I just don't see the deficit as a compelling problem that we need to tackle at this moment.

I agree that the government overspends--on defense spending, that is. We can easily cut it by 30% without compromising our national defense. Also, our welfare/prison system is horrible. We need to provide opportunity, not subsidization. This applies to farmers as well.

 

[BallsBrunswick]

I know that Republicans are suddenly quite concerned about the the deficit (remembering the Bush years, when the GOP said "deficits don't matter"). Can you explain to me how Americans are being damaged by the deficit? I just don't see the deficit as a compelling problem that we need to tackle at this moment.

The deficit is a problem because it strongly devalues the dollar which hurts American business in every way. For instance a strong dollar can buy more than a weak dollar despite being the same currency.

 

[mudwhistle]

.

My guess is that it was a turning point election. While the GOP evidently wants to deny it, there is a permanent and irreversible demographic shift taking place, and the Democrats have clearly beaten the Republicans to the punch. The GOP has made no discernible effort to reach out to minorities and women, while the Dems have made it a top priority. And now, any effort the GOP makes may very well have the stink of desperation and insincerity.

The GOP has its work cut out for it. It has to change its messaging, marginalize its loons and find some decent leadership. And all that, before it even decides whether it wants to dial back on the issues.

No doubt we're headed towards significantly more dependence on government. If the GOP doesn't like that, they'd better start looking in the mirror before it's too late. Less effort worrying about birth certificates, turkeys and pledges, and more effort getting their shit together and gathering voters.

.

You talk as if the Dems didn't cheat.

I read an article the other day about a guy who's retarded brother was home for Thanksgiving from his usual assisted living arrangements.

Out of the clear blue his brother says "Obama's going to save me".

Now why would he say that?

Because one of the Democrat party's representatives showed up at their facility and offered to give all of the mentally handicapped a ride to the polls. Course while they were driving there somebody was instructing them on the proper way to vote, which is against the law.

History will show that it was the Republicans who cheated in 2012

Blocking voter registrations, imposing more red tape, challenging voters at the polling sites, blocking early voting, creating voting lines that were hours long

All in the name of democracy

No, in an attempt to run an honest election. If you make it harder to cheat you're not suppressing the vote.

Who decided to have early voting in Ohio so Obama could stuff the ballot box? Who came up with same-day registration making it harder to prevent cheaters? Who used discrimination as a bogus argument in court simply to tie up new tougher I.D. laws from going into effect?

And to get off the subject, who thinks it's okay to be $16 trillion in debt but pay 40 times as much as the entire British Royal family to house and cart around the planet on shopping trips and vacations the president and his family. $1.4 billion for Obama as opposed to $57 million for the entire house of Windsor.