Was America more divided under Bush...or Obama?

[bucs90]

Obama is friends with Bush?

No. He's friends with Bill Ayers, the man who was leading the Weather Underground that bombed cops in San Fran, NYC, DC, and the Pentagon. They were plotting a murder of Detroit cops when an FBI informant broke it up. Somehow....Obama founded his campaign in Ayer's house. But he's NOT a friend, no, no, no!!!!! He says so.

Ayer's was convicted of what, exactly?

Ayers was convicted on exactly the same number of charges Bin Laden was: Zero.

Your point? Ayers admitted his role. In fact, just a few years ago, he actually stated his only regret was "That we didn't do more".

Are you making a strawman?

 

[bucs90]

Sallow, also, don't you find it ironic that Obama takes all the credit for the OBL killing........while he was also the ONLY Senator that voted against the wars that made it possible???????

 

[Sallow]

Sallow, you're obsessed. Killing Bin Laden is gonna be your trump card that excuses every failure Obama ever has, right?

Your elementary intellect shows very clear when talking about this. To act as if only one man, Obama, was responsible for getting Bin Laden is absurd. A group effort, 10 years long, went into that night. Hell, the SEALS have been training for that mission longer than Obama has been in office.


But....if only the PREVIOUS Democrat president who was informed "Mr. President, do you give the order to kill Osama Bin Laden" had said "Yes", then maybe we'd have avoided 9-11 and both wars. Unfortunately, that Democrat was busy another WMD, Ms. Lewinsky.

Yeah..I am fucking obsessed. I live in the city where the biggest terrorist attack took place in this history of this country. More people died in 9/11 then did in Pearl Harbor.

And if you connect the dots..you find the biggest, stupidiest kluge ever perpetrated by anyone at any time. Fucking conservatives funded this asshole, they made life difficult for a president that wanted him dead, they failed to stop one of the most asinine plots ever devised and failed to kill the guy who did it.

You bet your bottom dollar I am pissed.

And I am pleased as punch someone had the smarts, the stones, and the resolve the end that motherfucker's life.

 

[Si modo]

Obama is friends with Bush?

No. He's friends with Bill Ayers, the man who was leading the Weather Underground that bombed cops in San Fran, NYC, DC, and the Pentagon. They were plotting a murder of Detroit cops when an FBI informant broke it up. Somehow....Obama founded his campaign in Ayer's house. But he's NOT a friend, no, no, no!!!!! He says so.

Ayer's was convicted of what, exactly?

Bill Ayers: "Guilty as sin; free as a bird. It's a great country."

The only reason he wasn't convicted of those murders is because the feds screwed up.

 

[Sallow]

Sallow, also, don't you find it ironic that Obama takes all the credit for the OBL killing........while he was also the ONLY Senator that voted against the wars that made it possible???????

Iraq had zero to do with 9/11.

 

[bucs90]

Sallow, you're obsessed. Killing Bin Laden is gonna be your trump card that excuses every failure Obama ever has, right?

Your elementary intellect shows very clear when talking about this. To act as if only one man, Obama, was responsible for getting Bin Laden is absurd. A group effort, 10 years long, went into that night. Hell, the SEALS have been training for that mission longer than Obama has been in office.


But....if only the PREVIOUS Democrat president who was informed "Mr. President, do you give the order to kill Osama Bin Laden" had said "Yes", then maybe we'd have avoided 9-11 and both wars. Unfortunately, that Democrat was busy another WMD, Ms. Lewinsky.

Yeah..I am fucking obsessed. I live in the city where the biggest terrorist attack took place in this history of this country. More people died in 9/11 then did in Pearl Harbor.

And if you connect the dots..you find the biggest, stupidiest kluge ever perpetrated by anyone at any time. Fucking conservatives funded this asshole, they made life difficult for a president that wanted him dead, they failed to stop one of the most asinine plots ever devised and failed to kill the guy who did it.

You bet your bottom dollar I am pissed.

And I am pleased as punch someone had the smarts, the stones, and the resolve the end that motherfucker's life.

So you supported the two wars from 2002-2008 to find and kill OBL?

And you are angry that the last Dem President, Bill Clinton, had a chance to kill Obama, literally in the eyes of a CIA sniper, but refused to give the order?

As for American support to the Bin Laden family....have you read the backstory? It aint pretty, but it's not as black/white as you think.

 

[bucs90]

Sallow, also, don't you find it ironic that Obama takes all the credit for the OBL killing........while he was also the ONLY Senator that voted against the wars that made it possible???????

Iraq had zero to do with 9/11.

Neither does Libya. But Obama is bombing the shit out of them, aint he?

Look at a map. Look at Iraq and Afghanistan. Whats in the middle? Iran. Now....go look at WW2 history. At how the Allies and the Russians flanked the Germans.

Now you know the reason we went in, and are still in. OBL was a side dish. A good one, but a side dish.

 

[Sallow]

No. He's friends with Bill Ayers, the man who was leading the Weather Underground that bombed cops in San Fran, NYC, DC, and the Pentagon. They were plotting a murder of Detroit cops when an FBI informant broke it up. Somehow....Obama founded his campaign in Ayer's house. But he's NOT a friend, no, no, no!!!!! He says so.

Ayer's was convicted of what, exactly?

Bill Ayers: "Guilty as sin; free as a bird. It's a great country."

The only reason he wasn't convicted of those murders is because the feds screwed up.

What murders?

The weathermen were alot less violent then the KKK and most white supremists organizations running around now without the terrorist tag.

Very few of them were convicted of anything. There was a connection later on down the line to a bank robbery that happened when the group was essentially defunct.

Equating them to Al Qaeda is nonsense..and ridiculous.

 

[Sactowndog]

I truly don't know how much more bitter our citizens can become towards each other than we are now. I know it can get much worse. Hell, in 1861-65 we had a Civil War where we literally killed countless of our people. So it can get much worse and has. But in today's era of massive government and globalization, I doubt Civil War would happen again, just not possible.

Do you think it is generational? After all the boomers aren't acting much different than when they were 20 year olds. Our government is divided. Heck even football which has no business being in a labor dispute as much money as they are making can't come to terms.

The income gap continues to grow and our corporate leaders could care less.

Will the boomers destroy this country their parents saved? Perhaps we shoold just split the union. Most of the pure Red States are geogeraphically contiguous, perhaps we should let them go and create their own Bannana Republic.

 

[Si modo]

Ayer's was convicted of what, exactly?

Bill Ayers: "Guilty as sin; free as a bird. It's a great country."

The only reason he wasn't convicted of those murders is because the feds screwed up.

What murders?

The weathermen were alot less violent then the KKK and most white supremists organizations running around now without the terrorist tag.

Very few of them were convicted of anything. There was a connection later on down the line to a bank robbery that happened when the group was essentially defunct.

Equating them to Al Qaeda is nonsense..and ridiculous.

Oh? You didn't know that Ayers was charged with the murders?

I'm sorry.

Oh, and his organization also declared war on the US government.

 

[Sallow]

Sallow, also, don't you find it ironic that Obama takes all the credit for the OBL killing........while he was also the ONLY Senator that voted against the wars that made it possible???????

Iraq had zero to do with 9/11.

Neither does Libya. But Obama is bombing the shit out of them, aint he?

Look at a map. Look at Iraq and Afghanistan. Whats in the middle? Iran. Now....go look at WW2 history. At how the Allies and the Russians flanked the Germans.

Now you know the reason we went in, and are still in. OBL was a side dish. A good one, but a side dish.

Gaddafi is a known supporter of Terrorism and has a DIRECT connection to the lockerbie bombings. Just because George W. Bush accepted blood money from the man..should have never let him off the hook. Even the Arab League hates him.

But conservatives supporting a terrorist asshole like him that killed close to 200 Americans is nothing new.

Grats man.

Grats.

And your Iraq baloney is nonsense. The reason "we went in" was George W. Bush wanted to "avenge" daddy and the PNAC had a ludicrious plan to cut off oil from the Soviet Union (which no longer existed or exists).

 

[shintao]

Last January 22, Cheney made a rare private phone call to Senate Majority leader Tom Daschle, asking him to back off the investigation into the September attacks. Daschle refused. The following Tuesday in a private meeting, George W. Bush made the same request. According to Daschle's memory of the call, Cheney claimed "a review of what happened on September 11 would take resources and personnel away from the effort in the war on terrorism." Concerning Bush and Cheney's requests, CNN reported, "Although the president and vice president told Daschle they were worried a wide-reaching inquiry could distract from the government's war on terrorism, privately Democrats questioned why the White House feared a broader investigation to determine possible culpability."

 

[Sallow]

Sallow, you're obsessed. Killing Bin Laden is gonna be your trump card that excuses every failure Obama ever has, right?

Your elementary intellect shows very clear when talking about this. To act as if only one man, Obama, was responsible for getting Bin Laden is absurd. A group effort, 10 years long, went into that night. Hell, the SEALS have been training for that mission longer than Obama has been in office.


But....if only the PREVIOUS Democrat president who was informed "Mr. President, do you give the order to kill Osama Bin Laden" had said "Yes", then maybe we'd have avoided 9-11 and both wars. Unfortunately, that Democrat was busy another WMD, Ms. Lewinsky.

Yeah..I am fucking obsessed. I live in the city where the biggest terrorist attack took place in this history of this country. More people died in 9/11 then did in Pearl Harbor.

And if you connect the dots..you find the biggest, stupidiest kluge ever perpetrated by anyone at any time. Fucking conservatives funded this asshole, they made life difficult for a president that wanted him dead, they failed to stop one of the most asinine plots ever devised and failed to kill the guy who did it.

You bet your bottom dollar I am pissed.

And I am pleased as punch someone had the smarts, the stones, and the resolve the end that motherfucker's life.

So you supported the two wars from 2002-2008 to find and kill OBL?

And you are angry that the last Dem President, Bill Clinton, had a chance to kill Obama, literally in the eyes of a CIA sniper, but refused to give the order?

As for American support to the Bin Laden family....have you read the backstory? It aint pretty, but it's not as black/white as you think.

That Clinton stuff is just bullshit. Always was. Republicans blocked every effort that Clinton tried to send in spook ops to kill the guy. They left him with missiles and bombs. He tried.

And heck no..I didn't support Iraq. That was a war crime. Pure and simple.

What I supported was going into Afghanistan, clearing out the camps, killing Osama Bin Laden..and leaving. That was it. Could have been done in 3 weeks..6 weeks tops.

And I could give two shits about the "back story". The result was close to 3000 dead Americans and a smoldering crater where the twin towers use to stand.

 

[Sactowndog]

Of course, we could fix all this mess. You're right. We could definitely avoid most hard times in the future with the proper fixes. But that means we'd have to get along, make the hard choices financially, and put reality in front of emotional pet projects and entitlements. We just might...MIGHT...have to offend some people. We just might have to piss some people off. We might have to tell some people "no more". That the free ride is over.

Does that sound like the current "us"?

Hard choices. Kind of like raising taxes off their current historic low levels. I don't blame Obama for this mess. He offered to reform entitlements in exchange for a reasonable adjustment of the tax rate. But Republicans walked away.

I blame Congress. Both sides. Many of the reasonable statesman have long since left frustrated with the place. In California we are so tired of the crap we have changed how we elect people for Congress . Open primaries, taking away redistricting from the politicians. Hopefully we can throw out politicians like Nancy Pelosi on the left and Kevin McCarthy on the right.

 

[Kuros]

I truly don't know how much more bitter our citizens can become towards each other than we are now. I know it can get much worse. Hell, in 1861-65 we had a Civil War where we literally killed countless of our people. So it can get much worse and has. But in today's era of massive government and globalization, I doubt Civil War would happen again, just not possible.

Do you think it is generational? After all the boomers aren't acting much different than when they were 20 year olds. Our government is divided. Heck even football which has no business being in a labor dispute as much money as they are making can't come to terms.

The income gap continues to grow and our corporate leaders could care less.

Will the boomers destroy this country their parents saved? Perhaps we shoold just split the union. Most of the pure Red States are geogeraphically contiguous, perhaps we should let them go and create their own Bannana Republic.

This is a very typical liberal mentality, I'm afraid. "Just let the Red States go." Actually, many social liberals will not even realize the far easier solution: reinstate Federalism and allow each State to largely govern itself. That's right, healthcare in Massachusetts but not Mississippi. Aggressive taxation and social investment in Illinois and Iowa but laissez-faire policies and low taxes in Idaho and Montana. Live-and-let-live in California and Texas but micromanage and regulate in New York and Maryland.

Meanwhile, the Federal Bill of Rights have been incorporated, and may even be actively enforced through the 14th Amendment to protect discrete and insular minorities from civil rights abuses. Hell, Federalism is ahead of the curve on civil rights, because as we've seen with gay rights, individual states like New York can set the bar higher than the Federal floor, but Texas cannot go under the Federal floor and prohibit abortions.

But no, instead we get a massive income tax apparatus and a bloated DC bound bureaucracy and a centralized hog trough for pork through the liberal bias for nationalist top-down policies. Everything has to be federal, even when its traditionally state or local. Federal marijuana laws. Why not let Colorado have its pot dispensaries? Federal education funding. Why not let Kansas teach Intelligent Design if their school boards are so gung-ho on it? Federal health care legislation. Is there something wrong with Massachusetts' program and Texas wanting private health care? Corporate legislation. Corporations are registered at the state level!! With the exceptions of Securities regulation and other specifically enumerated Federal involvement (bankruptcy, patent, civil rights), this country was meant to be decentralized administratively and only united under one government for protection against outer threats. Liberals complain that Kansas can't vote within its self-interest, meanwhile ignoring that their Federally filtered tax dollars are working against their own regional self-interest:

Yes, but let the Red States go. Could there be an ever stronger unconscious admission that liberals should embrace traditional Federalism, for both their sake and the nation's sake?

 

[Si modo]

Iraq had zero to do with 9/11.

Neither does Libya. But Obama is bombing the shit out of them, aint he?

Look at a map. Look at Iraq and Afghanistan. Whats in the middle? Iran. Now....go look at WW2 history. At how the Allies and the Russians flanked the Germans.

Now you know the reason we went in, and are still in. OBL was a side dish. A good one, but a side dish.

Gaddafi is a known supporter of Terrorism and has a DIRECT connection to the lockerbie bombings. Just because George W. Bush accepted blood money from the man..should have never let him off the hook. Even the Arab League hates him.

But conservatives supporting a terrorist asshole like him that killed close to 200 Americans is nothing new.

Grats man.

Grats.

And your Iraq baloney is nonsense. The reason "we went in" was George W. Bush wanted to "avenge" daddy and the PNAC had a ludicrious plan to cut off oil from the Soviet Union (which no longer existed or exists).

What "blood money" did GWB accept from Gaddafi?

 

[Si modo]

Yeah..I am fucking obsessed. I live in the city where the biggest terrorist attack took place in this history of this country. More people died in 9/11 then did in Pearl Harbor.

And if you connect the dots..you find the biggest, stupidiest kluge ever perpetrated by anyone at any time. Fucking conservatives funded this asshole, they made life difficult for a president that wanted him dead, they failed to stop one of the most asinine plots ever devised and failed to kill the guy who did it.

You bet your bottom dollar I am pissed.

And I am pleased as punch someone had the smarts, the stones, and the resolve the end that motherfucker's life.

So you supported the two wars from 2002-2008 to find and kill OBL?

And you are angry that the last Dem President, Bill Clinton, had a chance to kill Obama, literally in the eyes of a CIA sniper, but refused to give the order?

As for American support to the Bin Laden family....have you read the backstory? It aint pretty, but it's not as black/white as you think.

That Clinton stuff is just bullshit. Always was. Republicans blocked every effort that Clinton tried to send in spook ops to kill the guy.

....

Bullshit. In fact, Clinton charged Gore with an unprecedented gutting of the intelligence community.

 

[Sallow]

So you supported the two wars from 2002-2008 to find and kill OBL?

And you are angry that the last Dem President, Bill Clinton, had a chance to kill Obama, literally in the eyes of a CIA sniper, but refused to give the order?

As for American support to the Bin Laden family....have you read the backstory? It aint pretty, but it's not as black/white as you think.

That Clinton stuff is just bullshit. Always was. Republicans blocked every effort that Clinton tried to send in spook ops to kill the guy.

....

Bullshit. In fact, Clinton charged Gore with an unprecedented gutting of the intelligence community.

What "gutting"?

And Gore tried to get an new Airline security bill through congress which was blocked tooth and nail by Republicans. Said it would "cost" to much.

Lovely.

 

[Sallow]

Neither does Libya. But Obama is bombing the shit out of them, aint he?

Look at a map. Look at Iraq and Afghanistan. Whats in the middle? Iran. Now....go look at WW2 history. At how the Allies and the Russians flanked the Germans.

Now you know the reason we went in, and are still in. OBL was a side dish. A good one, but a side dish.

Gaddafi is a known supporter of Terrorism and has a DIRECT connection to the lockerbie bombings. Just because George W. Bush accepted blood money from the man..should have never let him off the hook. Even the Arab League hates him.

But conservatives supporting a terrorist asshole like him that killed close to 200 Americans is nothing new.

Grats man.

Grats.

And your Iraq baloney is nonsense. The reason "we went in" was George W. Bush wanted to "avenge" daddy and the PNAC had a ludicrious plan to cut off oil from the Soviet Union (which no longer existed or exists).

What "blood money" did GWB accept from Gaddafi?

Lockerbie families attacked by Paul Wolfowitz over Libya compensation | Mail Online

Man.

 

[Si modo]

That Clinton stuff is just bullshit. Always was. Republicans blocked every effort that Clinton tried to send in spook ops to kill the guy.

....

Bullshit. In fact, Clinton charged Gore with an unprecedented gutting of the intelligence community.

What "gutting"?

And Gore tried to get an new Airline security bill through congress which was blocked tooth and nail by Republicans. Said it would "cost" to much.

Lovely.

During the Clinton administration, Clinton charged Gore with gutting the intelligence community. Funding took an unprecedented cut. And, no, I cannot quantify that because the information is classified. Clinton's rational was that the Cold War was over and we didn't have as much of a need for intelligence. He sort of had a point, to the general public. But others knew and know that our only enemies don't just reside behind the Iron Curtain. In fact, Gore, being the lamebrain that he is, promoted and it was ordered that the intelligence community could no longer use as foreign assets anyone who was a criminal. Pretty fucking insane, but Gore really isn't all that bright when it comes to intelligence issues.