Warming of oceans due to climate change is unstoppable, say US scientists

[flacaltenn]

Wow, you completely ignore the fact that CO2 lags temp.

Recent research casts serious doubt on that. No matter, we can go with the old theory anyways.

First, the temperature lowered and thus the atmospheric CO2 dropped as well.

So the 600 - 1000 year lag period apparently got way quicker in this case. Why? Who knows. Magic.

Then, when the recovery occurred the CO2 levels have increased. Exactly the same as has happened every time before. That is irrefutable evidence that CO2 has no bearing on the global temperature.

And you're ignoring the snowball earth case. If it wasn't CO2, explain for us what caused the warming that pulled the earth out of snowball mode. The sun didn't get hotter. "Orbital factors" certainly had no effect. When the whole world is frozen and north and south have the same white albedo, orbital changes will do nothing.

How about this new NASA study that says CO2 COOLS the atmosphere. What do you think of this?

“Carbon dioxide and nitric oxide are natural thermostats,” explains James Russell of Hampton University, SABER’s principal investigator. “When the upper atmosphere (or ‘thermosphere’) heats up, these molecules try as hard as they can to shed that heat back into space.”

Solar Storm Dumps Gigawatts into Earth s Upper Atmosphere - NASA Science

I think, since the earth gets over 200 million gigawatts in solar energy, mere "gigawatts" is an insignificant amount of energy in relation to the global energy balance. Hence, that study has nothing to do with global warming.

You KNOW what orbital "factors" existed back then??? Please do tell... How many degrees of freedom are there to earth's orientation to the sun? It's NOT just tilt about the equator..

 

[Billy_Bob]

Global Warming is a settled fact. The vast majority of scientists around the world settled this discussion 15 years ago and all agree Global Warming is real and accelerating.

There is no debate, Global Warming is real. The science is settled.

Climate science is in its infancy.. its most certainly NOT settled.. only a left wing zealot or a fool would say that it is.

 

[mamooth]

You KNOW what orbital "factors" existed back then???

Sure. The same ones that exist now.

Please do tell... How many degrees of freedom are there to earth's orientation to the sun? It's NOT just tilt about the equator..

Axial tilt

Axial precession

Apsidal precession, the rotation of the ellipse

Orbital inclination

Orbital shape, the stretching of the ellipse

The first 4 would cause no changes in heating on an all-white world. The last, orbital shape, would have an effect, since a more eccentric orbit makes for hotter summers and colder winters. That cycle is around 400,000 years. Snowball earth periods lasted for 50 million years. The frozen earth would have gone through hundreds of such orbital cycles without melting, so something other than orbital factors must have been a cause.

And we know what it was. Lacking any carbon sinks, CO2 from volcanoes would have kept accumulating. Eventually, it would have warmed the planet enough to start some melt at the equator. At that point, the albedo change would have caused a runaway positive feedback and quickly (geologically speaking) melted most of the planet.

The freezing and thawing repeated a couple times. But not since 570 million years ago. Why did it stop? Interesting question. Part of it is the slowing warming sun, about 1% every 100 million years. And part of it is that significant land masses have drifted towards the poles. Ice sheets over Antarctica and Greenland stifle the carbon burial process, which keeps atmospheric CO2 high enough to prevent snowball earth.

 

[flacaltenn]

The last 3 of those are all tied together in that changes in any one of those could affect the other two.. Due to the dynamics of the Solar System and even (as has been theorized) the functioning of the Sun itself.

There is a bit of literature on how the Solar System center of mass may affect the Sun. Even IF all major planets keep their same orbits over the time span..

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Wow, you completely ignore the fact that CO2 lags temp.

Recent research casts serious doubt on that. No matter, we can go with the old theory anyways.

First, the temperature lowered and thus the atmospheric CO2 dropped as well.

So the 600 - 1000 year lag period apparently got way quicker in this case. Why? Who knows. Magic.

Then, when the recovery occurred the CO2 levels have increased. Exactly the same as has happened every time before. That is irrefutable evidence that CO2 has no bearing on the global temperature.

And you're ignoring the snowball earth case. If it wasn't CO2, explain for us what caused the warming that pulled the earth out of snowball mode. The sun didn't get hotter. "Orbital factors" certainly had no effect. When the whole world is frozen and north and south have the same white albedo, orbital changes will do nothing.

How about this new NASA study that says CO2 COOLS the atmosphere. What do you think of this?

“Carbon dioxide and nitric oxide are natural thermostats,” explains James Russell of Hampton University, SABER’s principal investigator. “When the upper atmosphere (or ‘thermosphere’) heats up, these molecules try as hard as they can to shed that heat back into space.”

Solar Storm Dumps Gigawatts into Earth s Upper Atmosphere - NASA Science

I think, since the earth gets over 200 million gigawatts in solar energy, mere "gigawatts" is an insignificant amount of energy in relation to the global energy balance. Hence, that study has nothing to do with global warming.

You KNOW what orbital "factors" existed back then??? Please do tell... How many degrees of freedom are there to earth's orientation to the sun? It's NOT just tilt about the equator..

Er, Mann's Tree Ring?

 

[jc456]

You KNOW what orbital "factors" existed back then???

Sure. The same ones that exist now.

Please do tell... How many degrees of freedom are there to earth's orientation to the sun? It's NOT just tilt about the equator..

Axial tilt

Axial precession

Apsidal precession, the rotation of the ellipse

Orbital inclination

Orbital shape, the stretching of the ellipse

The first 4 would cause no changes in heating on an all-white world. The last, orbital shape, would have an effect, since a more eccentric orbit makes for hotter summers and colder winters. That cycle is around 400,000 years. Snowball earth periods lasted for 50 million years. The frozen earth would have gone through hundreds of such orbital cycles without melting, so something other than orbital factors must have been a cause.

And we know what it was. Lacking any carbon sinks, CO2 from volcanoes would have kept accumulating. Eventually, it would have warmed the planet enough to start some melt at the equator. At that point, the albedo change would have caused a runaway positive feedback and quickly (geologically speaking) melted most of the planet.

The freezing and thawing repeated a couple times. But not since 570 million years ago. Why did it stop? Interesting question. Part of it is the slowing warming sun, about 1% every 100 million years. And part of it is that significant land masses have drifted towards the poles. Ice sheets over Antarctica and Greenland stifle the carbon burial process, which keeps atmospheric CO2 high enough to prevent snowball earth.

So land masses moved and currents changed right? And that has always happened and you won't admit it. Funny stuff!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

You KNOW what orbital "factors" existed back then???

Sure. The same ones that exist now.

Please do tell... How many degrees of freedom are there to earth's orientation to the sun? It's NOT just tilt about the equator..

Axial tilt

Axial precession

Apsidal precession, the rotation of the ellipse

Orbital inclination

Orbital shape, the stretching of the ellipse

The first 4 would cause no changes in heating on an all-white world. The last, orbital shape, would have an effect, since a more eccentric orbit makes for hotter summers and colder winters. That cycle is around 400,000 years. Snowball earth periods lasted for 50 million years. The frozen earth would have gone through hundreds of such orbital cycles without melting, so something other than orbital factors must have been a cause.

And we know what it was. Lacking any carbon sinks, CO2 from volcanoes would have kept accumulating. Eventually, it would have warmed the planet enough to start some melt at the equator. At that point, the albedo change would have caused a runaway positive feedback and quickly (geologically speaking) melted most of the planet.

The freezing and thawing repeated a couple times. But not since 570 million years ago. Why did it stop? Interesting question. Part of it is the slowing warming sun, about 1% every 100 million years. And part of it is that significant land masses have drifted towards the poles. Ice sheets over Antarctica and Greenland stifle the carbon burial process, which keeps atmospheric CO2 high enough to prevent snowball earth.

And that's all covered in Mann's tree ring, right?

 

[Crick]

That is irrefutable evidence that CO2 has no bearing on the global temperature.

The same historical record, then, is "irrefutable evidence" that human cannot cause forest fires.

 

[jc456]

That is irrefutable evidence that CO2 has no bearing on the global temperature.

The same historical record, then, is "irrefutable evidence" that human cannot cause forest fires.

do you know why someone can tell if a human causes a forest fire? There is........wait for it..........evidence! See that big ole word there?

here....EVIDENCE....... I put it in caps so you can see the word.

 

[mamooth]

And we have direct physical evidence that CO2 warms the atmosphere. So what's your point?

And please don't just lie again and say there's no evidence. Lies make the baby Jesus cry, and you'll burn in hell for eternity if you keep telling that lie.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

And we have direct physical evidence that CO2 warms the atmosphere. So what's your point?

And please don't just lie again and say there's no evidence. Lies make the baby Jesus cry, and you'll burn in hell for eternity if you keep telling that lie.

And yet you can not provide any such evidence. Go figure.

 

[jc456]

And we have direct physical evidence that CO2 warms the atmosphere. So what's your point?

And please don't just lie again and say there's no evidence. Lies make the baby Jesus cry, and you'll burn in hell for eternity if you keep telling that lie.

we do? Where? why don't you just post up what that 120 PPM of CO2 does to anything ocean or air. come on now, let's see your evidence.