War In Ukraine Has Decimated A Once Feared Russian Brigade

[ESay]

How do you know what we will end up doing?.... you have no clue... if you think we don't have troops in country working to train Ukrainian soldiers than you have watched too much TV....
Read up on how we got involved in the Vietnam war... coincidently it was under a democrat president...

Different place, Different time. So, stop whining.

 

[Rambunctious]

Different place, Different time. So, stop whining.

Funny how easily you peacenik libs transform into blood thirsty hater warriors when its your guy funding the war....
What a bunch of hypocrites....

 

[ESay]

Funny how easily you peacenik libs transform into blood thirsty hater warriors when its your guy funding the war....
What a bunch of hypocrites....

Why? I was OK when the Trump administration was giving arms to Ukraine too.

 

[Rambunctious]

Why? I was OK when the Trump administration was giving arms to Ukraine too.

Russia wasn't launching rockets into Ukraine while we had an America First president... it would have never happened without weak ass Joe in the white house....

 

[ESay]

Russia wasn't launching rockets into Ukraine while we had an America First president... it would have never happened without weak ass Joe in the white house....

I don't know what would have happened had Trump been the president. It doesn't make sense to argue about that now.

I asked Trump supporters here several times what would be if the invasion did happen. But your ilk is chicken shit to give a direct answer.

 

[Rambunctious]

I don't know what would have happened had Trump been the president. It doesn't make sense to argue about that now.

I asked Trump supporters here several times what would be if the invasion did happen. But your ilk is chicken shit to give a direct answer.

I would not have supported the funding for this war no matter who was in office... Trump has said he wouldn't waste tax payers money for this war... we just got out of a war or have you forgotten... maybe the question begging to be asked is what would be your position if Trump were in office while this is going down... I bet you would be calling for another impeachment....

 

[toomuchtime_]

I would not have supported the funding for this war no matter who was in office... Trump has said he wouldn't waste tax payers money for this war... we just got out of a war or have you forgotten... maybe the question begging to be asked is what would be your position if Trump were in office while this is going down... I bet you would be calling for another impeachment....

So was it a waste of taxpayer money when Trump started sending weapons to Ukraine after Obama had refused to? Or is Trump's position on the war in Ukraine just a political move aimed at criticizing what Biden is doing?

 

[Rambunctious]

So was it a waste of taxpayer money when Trump started sending weapons to Ukraine after Obama had refused to? Or is Trump's position on the war in Ukraine just a political move aimed at criticizing what Biden is doing?

Yes... it was.... so what does that have to do with today?....

 

[toomuchtime_]

Yes... it was.... so what does that have to do with today?....

Nothing since Trump isn't president, but apparently he didn't think sending weapons to Ukraine was a waste of money when he was president, so maybe if he had been reelected he would be doing the same thing Biden is doing now.

 

[Rambunctious]

Nothing since Trump isn't president, but apparently he didn't think sending weapons to Ukraine was a waste of money when he was president, so maybe if he had been reelected he would be doing the same thing Biden is doing now.

Instead of playing games why don't just tell me what you fing think... we are 34 trillion in debt... its your country too.... we just got home from a war... Europe should be paying for this not us.... we have people trying to recoup from the pandemic and you are in favor of sending money to Ukraine??? they are not even a member of NATO....

 

[toomuchtime_]

Instead of playing games why don't just tell me what you fing think... we are 34 trillion in debt... its your country too.... we just got home from a war... Europe should be paying for this not us.... we have people trying to recoup from the pandemic and you are in favor of sending money to Ukraine??? they are not even a member of NATO....

If one believes we should support Ukraine, the debt would not be an issue. Europe is paying to support Ukraine, also. The whole world is trying to recover from the pandemic, and it was clearly a mistake not to allow Ukraine to join NATO.

Back in the 1930's many people made the same arguments you are making about why we shouldn't have gotten involved in WWII, but the prospect of Europe being part of the Nazi empire and Asia being part of the empire of imperial Japan would have created a world that would have been very difficult for us to live in, so we went to war, and Americans overwhelmingly think we made the right decision even though we paid dearly for it.

The Russian ultranationalists who rule Russia today are not so different from the German ultranationalist who created the Nazi Party and made war on Europe, and if we allow them to take even a part of Ukraine, we would be making the same mistake the Europeans made in the infamous Munich pact of 1938 when they allowed Germany to take part of Czechoslovakia because Germany argued there were many ethnic Germans living there, and while politicians argued this pact would prevent war, it was in fact the beginning of WWII.

Putin uses almost identical language to justify his invasion of Ukraine as Hitler did to justify his invasion of Czechoslovakia and later Poland, and if Putin is not stopped in Ukraine, he will go on trying to impose his will on the other countries in Europe, and he will have to be stopped later in a much bigger war.

But even if you agree that Putin should be stopped, why us? Why should the US play a role in stopping him? There are two reasons. First, there is no other country like the US. WWII could not have been won by the allies without the US, and after the war, the free world was largely created by the US; nearly all the international organizations that regulate trade, finance, diplomacy or defense were created by the US, and because the US is so rich and powerful, none of them would have come to anything without the leadership of the US. Even the EU was the result of a US initiative, the Common Market, to bring peace to Europe. If the US were ever to abandon its leadership role, that space would be quickly filled by Russia and China and we would be living in a world very similar to what the world would have been if Germany and Japan had won WWII.

The second reason the US should play an important role in supporting Ukraine's war against the Russian invaders is that in 1994, the US persuaded a very reluctant Ukraine to sign the Budapest Memorandum, in which Ukraine gave its nuclear arsenal to Russia in exchange for pledges from the US, UK and Russia that its borders would never be violated. At that time Ukraine had the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world, and if it had kept it, Russia would not have dared to invade.

 

[Rambunctious]

If one believes we should support Ukraine, the debt would not be an issue. Europe is paying to support Ukraine, also. The whole world is trying to recover from the pandemic, and it was clearly a mistake not to allow Ukraine to join NATO.

Back in the 1930's many people made the same arguments you are making about why we shouldn't have gotten involved in WWII, but the prospect of Europe being part of the Nazi empire and Asia being part of the empire of imperial Japan would have created a world that would have been very difficult for us to live in, so we went to war, and Americans overwhelmingly think we made the right decision even though we paid dearly for it.

The Russian ultranationalists who rule Russia today are not so different from the German ultranationalist who created the Nazi Party and made war on Europe, and if we allow them to take even a part of Ukraine, we would be making the same mistake the Europeans made in the infamous Munich pact of 1938 when they allowed Germany to take part of Czechoslovakia because Germany argued there were many ethnic Germans living there, and while politicians argued this pact would prevent war, it was in fact the beginning of WWII.

Putin uses almost identical language to justify his invasion of Ukraine as Hitler did to justify his invasion of Czechoslovakia and later Poland, and if Putin is not stopped in Ukraine, he will go on trying to impose his will on the other countries in Europe, and he will have to be stopped later in a much bigger war.

But even if you agree that Putin should be stopped, why us? Why should the US play a role in stopping him? There are two reasons. First, there is no other country like the US. WWII could not have been won by the allies without the US, and after the war, the free world was largely created by the US; nearly all the international organizations that regulate trade, finance, diplomacy or defense were created by the US, and because the US is so rich and powerful, none of them would have come to anything without the leadership of the US. Even the EU was the result of a US initiative, the Common Market, to bring peace to Europe. If the US were ever to abandon its leadership role, that space would be quickly filled by Russia and China and we would be living in a world very similar to what the world would have been if Germany and Japan had won WWII.

The second reason the US should play an important role in supporting Ukraine's war against the Russian invaders is that in 1994, the US persuaded a very reluctant Ukraine to sign the Budapest Memorandum, in which Ukraine gave its nuclear arsenal to Russia in exchange for pledges from the US, UK and Russia that its borders would never be violated. At that time Ukraine had the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world, and if it had kept it, Russia would not have dared to invade.

Ukraine is in Europe not New jersey... its their problem not ours... we just came home from a very costly 20 year war and you Biden clowns want to get right back into another one.... its insane with the debt our country has built... built from warfare weapons and funerals....
maybe take a look at who in DC is getting campaign cash from Raytheon....

 

[toomuchtime_]

Ukraine is in Europe not New jersey... its their problem not ours... we just came home from a very costly 20 year war and you Biden clowns want to get right back into another one.... its insane with the debt our country has built... built from warfare weapons and funerals....
maybe take a look at who in DC is getting campaign cash from Raytheon....

You make my case for me. All this whining about aid to Ukraine is nothing more to you than a position from which you can attack Biden. Keep in mind that it was Trump, not the Democrats, who sent weapons to Ukraine and it is logical to think that, despite his rhetoric now, Trump would have continued to arm Ukraine against the Russian invasion just as Biden is doing. Remember that Ukraine wasn't New Jersey when Trump was sending weapons over there so that Ukraine could defend itself against Russia.

 

[Rambunctious]

You make my case for me. All this whining about aid to Ukraine is nothing more to you than a position from which you can attack Biden. Keep in mind that it was Trump, not the Democrats, who sent weapons to Ukraine and it is logical to think that, despite his rhetoric now, Trump would have continued to arm Ukraine against the Russian invasion just as Biden is doing. Remember that Ukraine wasn't New Jersey when Trump was sending weapons over there so that Ukraine could defend itself against Russia.

Bullshit... there are people in America who worked their whole lives and now can't retire due to inflation from government over spending and printing money... we have a ridiculous healthcare system short on money and we still haven't rebuilt one damn significant bridge or airport....
Every dollar that should be spent here at home is going to a war that is already lost.....
We don't know where the money is going and we have never heard a reasonable explanation as to why and how this war got started... all we know is the political establishment is hell bent to send billions to Ukraine and pin a baby blue pin on their lapel as they rake in campaign dollars and get jobs for their kids at Raytheon and other companies in the military industrial complex.... its insane!!!!

 

[toomuchtime_]

Bullshit... there are people in America who worked their whole lives and now can't retire due to inflation from government over spending and printing money... we have a ridiculous healthcare system short on money and we still haven't rebuilt one damn significant bridge or airport....
Every dollar that should be spent here at home is going to a war that is already lost.....
We don't know where the money is going and we have never heard a reasonable explanation as to why and how this war got started... all we know is the political establishment is hell bent to send billions to Ukraine and pin a baby blue pin on their lapel as they rake in campaign dollars and get jobs for their kids at Raytheon and other companies in the military industrial complex.... its insane!!!!

Again what you are saying is that to you this is all about politics and not at all about policy. Why was Trump such a big supporter of sending military aid to Ukraine when he was in office and why did he become such a big critic of sending military aid to Ukraine when Biden did it? It is logical to think that if he had been reelected Trump would be doing exactly what Biden is doing now.

 

[Rambunctious]

Again what you are saying is that to you this is all about politics and not at all about policy. Why was Trump such a big supporter of sending military aid to Ukraine when he was in office and why did he become such a big critic of sending military aid to Ukraine when Biden did it? It is logical to think that if he had been reelected Trump would be doing exactly what Biden is doing now.

You say Trump supported sending aid to Ukraine with no evidence that he every did.... and even if he did support it... does that make it right?... are you a Trump fan now?....
The fact is this is not our fight and we can't afford another war....
Biden has ties to Ukraine and so does Hunter and Joe's brother... please wake up before we start sending Marines into battle because I promise you that is next on Joe's plan

 

[toomuchtime_]

You say Trump supported sending aid to Ukraine with no evidence that he every did.... and even if he did support it... does that make it right?... are you a Trump fan now?....
The fact is this is not our fight and we can't afford another war....
Biden has ties to Ukraine and so does Hunter and Joe's brother... please wake up before we start sending Marines into battle because I promise you that is next on Joe's plan

Trump administration reinstates military aid for Ukraine​

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump’s administration has released $250 million in military aid for Ukraine, U.S. senators said on Thursday, after lawmakers from both parties expressed concern that the White House had held up money approved by Congress.

The money is intended for use by Ukraine in its struggle with pro-Russian separatists backed by Moscow. Russia annexed Ukraine’s Crimea region in March 2014.

Trump administration reinstates military aid for Ukraine

President Donald Trump's administration has released $250 million in military aid for Ukraine, U.S. senators said on Thursday, after lawmakers from both parties expressed concern that the White House had held up money approved by Congress.

www.reuters.com

So both Republicans and Democrats supported military aid to Ukraine when Trump was president and it was only after Trump lost the election that some Republicans became critics of sending military aid to Ukraine to defend itself from Russian aggression.

 

[miketx]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/16/russia-200th-brigade-decimated-ukraine/

I think "decimated" is an understatement. Dismembered is a better description.

Things must be going very badly for Russia if they felt it necessary to deploy a brigade meant to protect their nuclear arsenal to fight in Ukraine.

And that brigade has been catastrophically damaged.

No wonder Putin is resorting to drones now. It's all he has left to fight with.

Nuclear-armed submarines slip in and out of the frigid waters along the coast of Russia’s Kola Peninsula at the northern edge of Europe. Missiles capable of destroying cities are stored by the dozens in bunkers burrowed into the inland hills.

Since the Cold War, this Arctic arsenal has been protected by a combat unit considered one of Russia’s most formidable — the 200th Separate Motor Rifle Brigade — until it sent its best fighters and weapons to Ukraine this year and was effectively destroyed.

[snip]

A document detailing a mid-war inventory of its ranks shows that by late May, fewer than 900 soldiers were left in two battalion tactical groups that, according to Western officials, had departed the brigade’s garrison in Russia with more than 1,400. The brigade’s commander was badly wounded. And some of those still being counted as part of the unit were listed as hospitalized, missing or “refuseniks” unwilling to fight, according to the document, part of a trove of internal Russian military files obtained by Ukraine’s security services and provided to The Post.



I wonder what Russia does to "refuseniks".


“They are barely at 60 percent strength, being forced to rely on reinforcements that aren’t near enough,” Pekka Toveri, former director of Finland’s defense intelligence service, said in an interview. “You have guys who are refusing to fight, guys who are missing. It all tells us that for Russia the war has gone terribly wrong.”


[snip]

Many of the unit’s most potent weapons, including mobile rocket launchers and tanks, were either destroyed or captured.


[snip]

All the while, the brigade was being degraded from within. The skilled troops and professional officers sent into battle at the start of the war with state-of-the-art T-80BVM tanks have given way to an assemblage of poorly trained conscripts pressed into service with paltry or outdated gear.

Some of the brigade’s own soldiers described its condition as dire.

“The unit is in a state of decay,” said a soldier now serving in the 200th after being drafted under mobilization orders that Putin issued in September. He and others were initially issued “painted helmets from 1941 and vests without plates,” he said in an interview with The Post this month. “They are not even training us. … They just tell you, ‘You are a shooter now. Here you go, here is a machine gun.’”

In a war that has been disastrous for much of Russia’s military, the dismemberment of the 200th stands out. It entered the conflict with better training, newer equipment and more experience — including prior combat missions in Ukraine — than most other units. Now, given the magnitude of its losses, one European military official said, it “cannot be considered a fighting force.”


[snip]

The troops, like others in the invading force, were led to believe they were deploying to take part in drills, according to Ukrainian officials citing accounts of captured 200th soldiers. Only at 3 a.m. on Feb. 24 were they told, “There will be shooting,” an official said.

[snip]

By day’s end, multiple units of the 200th had been ambushed or attacked, dozens of soldiers killed or wounded, and equipment including tanks and “Grad” mobile rocket launchers destroyed or abandoned on roadsides, according to Ukrainian and Western accounts.



“The front they were assigned proved to be well defended with very motivated Ukrainians,” a senior European intelligence official said.


“What’s there to know about them?” Col. Gen. Oleksandr Syrsky, who later commanded the Kharkiv offensive, said recently in an interview when asked about the 200th. “They run away very well.”

[snip]

In a sign of growing desperation, the brigade in June began forming what it called a “mixed volunteer battalion” including sailors pulled off Northern Fleet ships, logistics specialists from depots and others often coerced into action despite having little or no experience or training in ground combat, according to Western officials.

[snip]

Ukrainian commanders described battles in which 200th soldiers wouldn’t fight or defied orders. In mid-July, a Ukrainian reconnaissance unit captured audio of a Russian tank commander in Hrakove screaming at subordinates.

“Should I show you how to kill Ukrainians? I’ll get in the tank myself,” the commander shouted, shortly before the tank was destroyed by a Javelin missile, according to Oleksandr, a reconnaissance scout in Ukraine’s 92nd Mechanized Brigade, who spoke on the condition that his surname not be published to maintain his security.


YEAH, BABY! That's why I have Saint Javelin as my avatar.

It's a long article, but well worth reading. There is a great blow by blow account of how the Ukrainians destroyed the 200th. Excellent tactics.

You swallow well like all media fed leftist goons.

 

[Rambunctious]

Trump administration reinstates military aid for Ukraine​

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump’s administration has released $250 million in military aid for Ukraine, U.S. senators said on Thursday, after lawmakers from both parties expressed concern that the White House had held up money approved by Congress.

The money is intended for use by Ukraine in its struggle with pro-Russian separatists backed by Moscow. Russia annexed Ukraine’s Crimea region in March 2014.

Trump administration reinstates military aid for Ukraine

President Donald Trump's administration has released $250 million in military aid for Ukraine, U.S. senators said on Thursday, after lawmakers from both parties expressed concern that the White House had held up money approved by Congress.

www.reuters.com

So both Republicans and Democrats supported military aid to Ukraine when Trump was president and it was only after Trump lost the election that some Republicans became critics of sending military aid to Ukraine to defend itself from Russian aggression.

I said if true he was wrong... so are you a Trump fan now?... hey dummy its your nations future too....
Are you really... after 20 years and trillions of dollars spent on war in favor of funding and maybe fighting another one... this time with a nuclear power?... are you nuts?....

Besides I'm calling bullshit to your link...
Trump is not now in favor of funding this war that should have never happened... Trump would have sent the weapons in to try and stop Putin or make him think twice... Trump wouldn't be doing what Biden is by just sending blank checks and cash to Ukraine.... And when did it become common for the USA to ship cash to other countries?... well it was under Obama when he sent cash and gold to Iran.... WTF?.... we use to give loans to other nations not just send them cash....

WASHINGTON (AP) — Signs of Republican resistance are mounting over a $40 billion aid package to Ukraine, a reemergence of the Trump-led isolationist wing of the GOP that’s coming at a crucial moment as the war against the Russian invasion deepens.

The Senate voted late Monday to advance the Ukraine aid bill 81-11, pushing it toward President Joe Biden’s desk by week’s end to become law. But more vocal objections from Republicans in Congress are sending warning signs after what has been rare and united support for Ukraine as it desperately battles hostile Russia. All 11 no votes came from Republican senators.

It comes as Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell led a delegation of GOP senators to visit the region over the weekend in a show of support, vowing to push past detractors, finish up the aid package and vote this summer on expanding NATO to welcome Sweden and Finland. The leader finds himself holding down the GOP’s more traditional foreign policy approach, in direct confrontation with the GOP’s “America First” flank, including Donald Trump, the former president.

“There’s always been isolationist voices in the Republican Party,” McConnell told reporters on a conference call over the weekend from Stockholm. “It won’t create a problem, we’ll get the job done.”

With echoes of Trump, GOP splinters over $40B for Ukraine​

With echoes of Trump, GOP splinters over $40B for Ukraine

Signs of Republican resistance are mounting over a $40 billion aid package to Ukraine. It's a reemergence of the Trump-led isolationist wing of the GOP coming at a crucial moment as Ukraine desperately battles the Russian invasion.

apnews.com

 

[toomuchtime_]

I said if true he was wrong... so are you a Trump fan now?... hey dummy its your nations future too....
Are you really... after 20 years and trillions of dollars spent on war in favor of funding and maybe fighting another one... this time with a nuclear power?... are you nuts?....

Besides I'm calling bullshit to your link...
Trump is not now in favor of funding this war that should have never happened... Trump would have sent the weapons in to try and stop Putin or make him think twice... Trump wouldn't be doing what Biden is by just sending blank checks and cash to Ukraine.... And when did it become common for the USA to ship cash to other countries?... well it was under Obama when he sent cash and gold to Iran.... WTF?.... we use to give loans to other nations not just send them cash....

WASHINGTON (AP) — Signs of Republican resistance are mounting over a $40 billion aid package to Ukraine, a reemergence of the Trump-led isolationist wing of the GOP that’s coming at a crucial moment as the war against the Russian invasion deepens.

The Senate voted late Monday to advance the Ukraine aid bill 81-11, pushing it toward President Joe Biden’s desk by week’s end to become law. But more vocal objections from Republicans in Congress are sending warning signs after what has been rare and united support for Ukraine as it desperately battles hostile Russia. All 11 no votes came from Republican senators.

It comes as Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell led a delegation of GOP senators to visit the region over the weekend in a show of support, vowing to push past detractors, finish up the aid package and vote this summer on expanding NATO to welcome Sweden and Finland. The leader finds himself holding down the GOP’s more traditional foreign policy approach, in direct confrontation with the GOP’s “America First” flank, including Donald Trump, the former president.

“There’s always been isolationist voices in the Republican Party,” McConnell told reporters on a conference call over the weekend from Stockholm. “It won’t create a problem, we’ll get the job done.”

With echoes of Trump, GOP splinters over $40B for Ukraine​

With echoes of Trump, GOP splinters over $40B for Ukraine

Signs of Republican resistance are mounting over a $40 billion aid package to Ukraine. It's a reemergence of the Trump-led isolationist wing of the GOP coming at a crucial moment as Ukraine desperately battles the Russian invasion.

apnews.com

The $40 billion aid bill for Ukraine passed in the Senate by a vote of 81 - 11, which means most Republicans support military aid to Ukraine. All of your arguments have been heard and rejected by the majority of the Republican Party, including staunch conservatives like Ted Cruz, as well as Democrats. All of America's allies also support military aid to Ukraine and nearly all are contributing as they can. This is a settled issue and a losing issue for Trump.