Walkers Speech was very good, and very clear. Let the layoffs begin.

[Avorysuds]

I seem to be on the OP's side but what kind of thread does not even have a simple link? Are we just taking your word for it or is getting a transcript/video not possible yet?

"Conservatives" rarely provide links and when they do, its usually from less than reliable sources!

Conservatives take "the-line-if-least-resistance" strategy - making unsubstantiated accusations is easier than researching the facts, so as long as they flood the forum with accusations faster than the opposition can research them, conservatives will always find themselves ahead of the game!

You sir, are a moron. Plz never quote me again.

 

[JFK_USA]

This issue is much like the Illegal immigration issue... The longer the Senators let people think about what’s going on the more people will learn. The more people that become educated about what’s happening the less support the Dems and Unions will have.

Hint: this has NOTHING to do with group bargaining being done away with, nothing...

Yes it does. The democrats agreed to the cuts, walker said no. Btw the American people are against you 60-33. They are educated and they say you're wrong. I know facts are hurtful to you. BTW this crap about right to work really means right to get forcibly raped by your employer.

 

[Avorysuds]

Don't the "wealthy pay about 40% of the Federal Income Tax? How is that a break doyathink? A tax break is when you pay Zero which accounts for 50% of youse.

Liberals actually believe they have done the rich a favor of some sort by taking a smaller amount in tax revenue from them,, even thought it is still disproportionately more. Most people don't even pay federal income tax. tsk tsk

They feel like it is their money. They feel entitled.


Obama is their leader, and he often talks about the Loss of Revenue as if it was his to begin with and they won't give it back.

It's hard to understand the Conservative love affair with "powerful" people. And it's these same powerful people that need government backing in almost everything they do. From protection of their property to helping them with research and development to providing them with a market to sell their "products" (a great deal of which..was created on the public dime), it seems that the Conservative machine props up these "Captains of Industry" and shovels taxpayer money their way. It's like reverse communism (Well..its Fascism..lets not mince words) and the Conservatives just love doing it. It goes against the interests of the Average Joe too. The Financial Industry gets in trouble? Boehner is crying his eyes out for TARP. Silverado savings and loan? Heck..Bush happily handed over some tax money. Bond market went kaboom? There was Reagan..holding a sack of cash.

Yeppers. And the whole Military Industrial complex, Ol' Eisenhower warned about is in full play today..with 2 full blown wars.

Gotta love Conservatives. Selling out the store..and the little guy..to make the Elites obscenely rich.

Bloody good job boys..bloody good job.

That was Neocons and then the Republican party split... Do we really have to go over this shit again? I mean so many liberals were sooOoo happy when the Republican party had broken into two.

Why do you make it out to be "conservatives" that have done all of this bad stuff? Dems voted for it too and going off Obama's record we can thank Dems for more wars, torture and expanded homeland security... And deficits lol... Dems (Senate/house/President) are Bush and his Neocons...

 

[Avorysuds]

This issue is much like the Illegal immigration issue... The longer the Senators let people think about what’s going on the more people will learn. The more people that become educated about what’s happening the less support the Dems and Unions will have.

Hint: this has NOTHING to do with group bargaining being done away with, nothing...

Yes it does. The democrats agreed to the cuts, walker said no. Btw the American people are against you 60-33. They are educated and they say you're wrong. I know facts are hurtful to you. BTW this crap about right to work really means right to get forcibly raped by your employer.

I fear not, as in time people will understand you are full of shit. Your made up reality lacks some basic logic btw...

Dems agree with Walkers cuts, then he says no? That's it, end of story? LOL...

 

[Wicked Jester]

Don't the "wealthy pay about 40% of the Federal Income Tax? How is that a break doyathink? A tax break is when you pay Zero which accounts for 50% of youse.

Liberals actually believe they have done the rich a favor of some sort by taking a smaller amount in tax revenue from them,, even thought it is still disproportionately more. Most people don't even pay federal income tax. tsk tsk

They feel like it is their money. They feel entitled.


Obama is their leader, and he often talks about the Loss of Revenue as if it was his to begin with and they won't give it back.

It's hard to understand the Conservative love affair with "powerful" people. And it's these same powerful people that need government backing in almost everything they do. From protection of their property to helping them with research and development to providing them with a market to sell their "products" (a great deal of which..was created on the public dime), it seems that the Conservative machine props up these "Captains of Industry" and shovels taxpayer money their way. It's like reverse communism (Well..its Fascism..lets not mince words) and the Conservatives just love doing it. It goes against the interests of the Average Joe too. The Financial Industry gets in trouble? Boehner is crying his eyes out for TARP. Silverado savings and loan? Heck..Bush happily handed over some tax money. Bond market went kaboom? There was Reagan..holding a sack of cash.

Yeppers. And the whole Military Industrial complex, Ol' Eisenhower warned about is in full play today..with 2 full blown wars.

Gotta love Conservatives. Selling out the store..and the little guy..to make the Elites obscenely rich.

Bloody good job boys..bloody good job.

Ed Shultz BS in full form!.......LMAO!

Look, the progressive agenda is going down in flames. The top down, bottom up, so everybody ends up one in the same in the middle is not flying......We are a center right society. It's the way it is.......Deal with it!

 

[Avorysuds]

The fact that the WI deal is so stunning and upsetting is proof that “conservatism” has not been represented for a very long time. Of course that would imply that Liberalism has been growing by leaps and bounds… So here is the question and I have asked it before. If Liberalism is so fuckin awesome, how is it Bush and Obama and their liberal congress’s have done everything to expand Government, from Education to science, stimulus’s, bailouts, wars and energy… Everything… But yet, somehow the country is in the dumps?

I mean shit, if your life depended on it you couldn’t prove there is much if any real difference between Obama and Bush… So how come we are in full fail mode? I could prove Bush as a progressive liberal before someone could prove Bush was even a “meh” conservative.

I’m not attacking liberals here, I’m just saying that you guys have had it your way for a long fucking time if you like Obama, that’s a plain simple fact… All that has really changed is the color of the Presidents skin.

Let’s give “Conservatism” a chance here. Hey, it ended the 1920’s depression like whoa. FDR spent 12 years failing, his shit had to be repealed LOL. Do we really need to repeat history?

 

[AquaAthena]

Unless one of the runaways walks into the Capitol in the next 5 minutes, it sounds to me like the pink slips go out first thing in the morning.

It is a shame that 14 overtly corrupt politicians have put the lives and livelihoods of every public employee, as well as their families, in queue BEHIND the special interests that grease their palms. Shame on each of them!

They deserve the fates they have chosen.

Yes, I agree with all you have just said. I have great admiration for this man who is doing everything he promised his constituency, he would. He is a man of his word and very brave. He is showing leadership and loyalty and calmly so.

 

[Wicked Jester]

I like to see a reference for this.............

It's been all over the news. Forbes did extensive research on the gap. Public sector workers make on average right around 30+% more than private sector workers. They make around 70% higher on average in benefits and pensions. This include cash outs for unused sick time and whatnot upon retirement.

It's no longer sustainable for states to continue feeding dirt into this gap.

Giving the wealthy a "tax break" isn't sustainable either but that hasn't stopped our conservative friends from making it priority #1 on their agenda!

Its just that public sector workers usually don't support the conservatives - so that makes them politically expendable!

Since "Wicked Jester" has chosen not to provide a credible source, his accusations are not worthy of comment but I'm looking forward to a private message adding to his ever growing list of compliments - "asshole," "douchebag," "cocksucker"

LMAO!

Gilt-Edged Pensions - Forbes.com

This was from 2009..........The writing was already on the wall. And in the two years since, benefits and pensions have gione through the roof.

Benefits + Pensions (indexed for inflation) + Cash out options = 70% on average higher than the private sector=======No longer sustainable.

The gig is up!

 

[Sallow]

Liberals actually believe they have done the rich a favor of some sort by taking a smaller amount in tax revenue from them,, even thought it is still disproportionately more. Most people don't even pay federal income tax. tsk tsk

They feel like it is their money. They feel entitled.


Obama is their leader, and he often talks about the Loss of Revenue as if it was his to begin with and they won't give it back.

It's hard to understand the Conservative love affair with "powerful" people. And it's these same powerful people that need government backing in almost everything they do. From protection of their property to helping them with research and development to providing them with a market to sell their "products" (a great deal of which..was created on the public dime), it seems that the Conservative machine props up these "Captains of Industry" and shovels taxpayer money their way. It's like reverse communism (Well..its Fascism..lets not mince words) and the Conservatives just love doing it. It goes against the interests of the Average Joe too. The Financial Industry gets in trouble? Boehner is crying his eyes out for TARP. Silverado savings and loan? Heck..Bush happily handed over some tax money. Bond market went kaboom? There was Reagan..holding a sack of cash.

Yeppers. And the whole Military Industrial complex, Ol' Eisenhower warned about is in full play today..with 2 full blown wars.

Gotta love Conservatives. Selling out the store..and the little guy..to make the Elites obscenely rich.

Bloody good job boys..bloody good job.

That was Neocons and then the Republican party split... Do we really have to go over this shit again? I mean so many liberals were sooOoo happy when the Republican party had broken into two.

Why do you make it out to be "conservatives" that have done all of this bad stuff? Dems voted for it too and going off Obama's record we can thank Dems for more wars, torture and expanded homeland security... And deficits lol... Dems (Senate/house/President) are Bush and his Neocons...

Sorry..disowning Conservatives doesn't make them less Conservative. Because of the Vietnam escalation..I hold Johnson as one of the worst American presidents. And I don't ever say he was anything other then Liberal.

 

[Avorysuds]

It's hard to understand the Conservative love affair with "powerful" people. And it's these same powerful people that need government backing in almost everything they do. From protection of their property to helping them with research and development to providing them with a market to sell their "products" (a great deal of which..was created on the public dime), it seems that the Conservative machine props up these "Captains of Industry" and shovels taxpayer money their way. It's like reverse communism (Well..its Fascism..lets not mince words) and the Conservatives just love doing it. It goes against the interests of the Average Joe too. The Financial Industry gets in trouble? Boehner is crying his eyes out for TARP. Silverado savings and loan? Heck..Bush happily handed over some tax money. Bond market went kaboom? There was Reagan..holding a sack of cash.

Yeppers. And the whole Military Industrial complex, Ol' Eisenhower warned about is in full play today..with 2 full blown wars.

Gotta love Conservatives. Selling out the store..and the little guy..to make the Elites obscenely rich.

Bloody good job boys..bloody good job.

That was Neocons and then the Republican party split... Do we really have to go over this shit again? I mean so many liberals were sooOoo happy when the Republican party had broken into two.

Why do you make it out to be "conservatives" that have done all of this bad stuff? Dems voted for it too and going off Obama's record we can thank Dems for more wars, torture and expanded homeland security... And deficits lol... Dems (Senate/house/President) are Bush and his Neocons...

Sorry..disowning Conservatives doesn't make them less Conservative. Because of the Vietnam escalation..I hold Johnson as one of the worst American presidents. And I don't ever say he was anything other then Liberal.

Bush calls himself a Neocon... So why would I or anyone care how you rate someone?

I fully understand the lines and definitions are very blurred, it makes debate seem near impossible these days. But again, if by policy Bush and Obama are lets just say 85% similar, does that make Bush's policies harder to attack as a liberal being it would seem you have to agree somewhere?

I mean, take all the big issues.

Health care: Obama (Obamacare) - Bush (Medicare part D)

Wars: Obama (expands Iraq and Afghanistan) - Bush (Starts Iraq and Afghanistan)

Illegal Immigration: Obama (Amnesty) - Bush (Amnesty)

Homeland security: Obama (expands) - Bush (starts)

Bail outs: Obama (Does) - Bush (Does)

Stimulus: Obama (Does) - Bush (Does)

Education: Obama (Expands) - Bush (Expands)

Taxes: Obama (Tax credits and Bush Tax cuts) - Bush (Tax credits and Bush tax cuts)


I mean, these are just some of the most major issues out there, I'm sure there are more... They are like the same fuckin person. So, Is Obama a conservative or is Bush a Liberal?

 

[Provocateur]

Don't the "wealthy pay about 40% of the Federal Income Tax? How is that a break doyathink? A tax break is when you pay Zero which accounts for 50% of youse.

Liberals actually believe they have done the rich a favor of some sort by taking a smaller amount in tax revenue from them,, even thought it is still disproportionately more. Most people don't even pay federal income tax. tsk tsk

They feel like it is their money. They feel entitled.


Obama is their leader, and he often talks about the Loss of Revenue as if it was his to begin with and they won't give it back.

It's hard to understand the Conservative love affair with "powerful" people. And it's these same powerful people that need government backing in almost everything they do. From protection of their property to helping them with research and development to providing them with a market to sell their "products" (a great deal of which..was created on the public dime), it seems that the Conservative machine props up these "Captains of Industry" and shovels taxpayer money their way. It's like reverse communism (Well..its Fascism..lets not mince words) and the Conservatives just love doing it. It goes against the interests of the Average Joe too. The Financial Industry gets in trouble? Boehner is crying his eyes out for TARP. Silverado savings and loan? Heck..Bush happily handed over some tax money. Bond market went kaboom? There was Reagan..holding a sack of cash.

Yeppers. And the whole Military Industrial complex, Ol' Eisenhower warned about is in full play today..with 2 full blown wars.

Gotta love Conservatives. Selling out the store..and the little guy..to make the Elites obscenely rich.

Bloody good job boys..bloody good job.

I'm glad you concur that it isn't your money and you have no right to it.

 

[Provocateur]

It's hard to understand the Conservative love affair with "powerful" people. And it's these same powerful people that need government backing in almost everything they do. From protection of their property to helping them with research and development to providing them with a market to sell their "products" (a great deal of which..was created on the public dime), it seems that the Conservative machine props up these "Captains of Industry" and shovels taxpayer money their way. It's like reverse communism (Well..its Fascism..lets not mince words) and the Conservatives just love doing it. It goes against the interests of the Average Joe too. The Financial Industry gets in trouble? Boehner is crying his eyes out for TARP. Silverado savings and loan? Heck..Bush happily handed over some tax money. Bond market went kaboom? There was Reagan..holding a sack of cash.

Yeppers. And the whole Military Industrial complex, Ol' Eisenhower warned about is in full play today..with 2 full blown wars.

Gotta love Conservatives. Selling out the store..and the little guy..to make the Elites obscenely rich.

Bloody good job boys..bloody good job.

That was Neocons and then the Republican party split... Do we really have to go over this shit again? I mean so many liberals were sooOoo happy when the Republican party had broken into two.

Why do you make it out to be "conservatives" that have done all of this bad stuff? Dems voted for it too and going off Obama's record we can thank Dems for more wars, torture and expanded homeland security... And deficits lol... Dems (Senate/house/President) are Bush and his Neocons...

Sorry..disowning Conservatives doesn't make them less Conservative. Because of the Vietnam escalation..I hold Johnson as one of the worst American presidents. And I don't ever say he was anything other then Liberal.

Sorry, this talking point won't fly.

Conservatives disowned the posers that were simply Democrat-lite.

And to add, the Tea Party got its legs because of TARP, under Bush, so your post has zero value.

 

[jgarden]

It's been all over the news. Forbes did extensive research on the gap. Public sector workers make on average right around 30+% more than private sector workers. They make around 70% higher on average in benefits and pensions. This include cash outs for unused sick time and whatnot upon retirement.

It's no longer sustainable for states to continue feeding dirt into this gap.

Giving the wealthy a "tax break" isn't sustainable either but that hasn't stopped our conservative friends from making it priority #1 on their agenda!

Its just that public sector workers usually don't support the conservatives - so that makes them politically expendable!

Since "Wicked Jester" has chosen not to provide a credible source, his accusations are not worthy of comment but I'm looking forward to a private message adding to his ever growing list of compliments - "asshole," "douchebag," "cocksucker"

LMAO!

Gilt-Edged Pensions - Forbes.com

This was from 2009..........The writing was already on the wall. And in the two years since, benefits and pensions have gione through the roof.

Benefits + Pensions (indexed for inflation) + Cash out options = 70% on average higher than the private sector=======No longer sustainable.

The gig is up!

..... studies by the Economic Policy Institute as well as University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee economists Keith Bender and John Heywood show clearly that public-sector employees are less well-compensated than comparably educated and experienced private-sector workers in Wisconsin.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/116955013.html

With all due respect, the Forbes article makes no mention of Wisconsin.

Studies that actually compare public and private sector employees in Wisconsin, with respect to similar education and experience, don't support your contention.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Giving the wealthy a "tax break" isn't sustainable either but that hasn't stopped our conservative friends from making it priority #1 on their agenda!

Its just that public sector workers usually don't support the conservatives - so that makes them politically expendable!

Since "Wicked Jester" has chosen not to provide a credible source, his accusations are not worthy of comment but I'm looking forward to a private message adding to his ever growing list of compliments - "asshole," "douchebag," "cocksucker"

LMAO!

Gilt-Edged Pensions - Forbes.com

This was from 2009..........The writing was already on the wall. And in the two years since, benefits and pensions have gione through the roof.

Benefits + Pensions (indexed for inflation) + Cash out options = 70% on average higher than the private sector=======No longer sustainable.

The gig is up!

..... studies by the Economic Policy Institute as well as University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee economists Keith Bender and John Heywood show clearly that public-sector employees are less well-compensated than comparably educated and experienced private-sector workers in Wisconsin.

You heard it here first: Tax the rich and solve budget shortfall - JSOnline

With all due respect, the Forbes article is national in scope and makes no mention of Wisconsin.

Studies comparing public and private sector employees in Wisconsin, with similar education and experience, don't support your contention.

www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-03-01-1Apublicworkers01_ST_N.htm

And, you do realize that collective bargaining for PAY will still be on the table, right?

You do realize that it's the bloated benefits and pensions that are the main cause of the problem, right?

 

[jgarden]

...... There are 13 states with no collective bargaining rights for public workers; eight of them have larger budget shortfalls than does Wisconsin. In Texas, for example, a non-collective bargaining state whose low-tax, "open for business" economic policies are vaunted by the right, the state's deficit as a percentage of the total budget is over twice that of Wisconsin's.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/116955013.html

If eliminating collective bargaining rights of public service employees is the solution, why do 8 of the 13 states that have already "gone down this road," currently have "larger budget shortfalls" than Wisconsin?

If "bloated benefits and pensions (that) are the main cause of the problem," why did Governor Walker target some public sector unions and not all of them?

Does the fact that the police and fire departments endorsed Walker during the last election mean their benefits and pensions are any less "bloated" than those of the teachers?

 

[Wicked Jester]

For you tax and spend liberals who think that raising taxes is the solution to all the problems, just look at California. We are taxed to death on just about everything, and look at what it's gotten us.......Liberals, outta control spending, bloated public sector union pay and benefits, have destroyed this great state financially. This state is loaded with the people that liberals despise most, the rich. Those making a mil or more are taxed around 11%. And we are the most vulnerable state in the country for complete economic collapse. In fact, it's already happened.

 

[Wicked Jester]

...... There are 13 states with no collective bargaining rights for public workers; eight of them have larger budget shortfalls than does Wisconsin. In Texas, for example, a non-collective bargaining state whose low-tax, "open for business" economic policies are vaunted by the right, the state's deficit as a percentage of the total budget is over twice that of Wisconsin's.

You heard it here first: Tax the rich and solve budget shortfall - JSOnline

If eliminating collective bargaining rights of public service employees was the solution, why do 8 of the 13 states that have followed this policy currently have "larger budget shortfalls" than Wisconsin?

If "bloated benefits and pensions (that) are the main cause of the problem," why did Governor Walker target some public sector unions and not all of them?

Does the fact that the police and fire departments endorsed him during the last election mean their benefits and pensions are any less "bloated" than those of the teachers?

It's PART of the solution.

 

[jgarden]

So far, "Wicked Jester's" whole argument is based on the unproven assumption that the public sector unions' "bloated benefits and pensions" are the root cause of Wisconsin's budget problems.

The onus is on him to provide convincing proof that this is indeed the case - saying the same thing over and over doesn't constitute proof.

 

[Wicked Jester]

So far, "Wicked Jester's" whole argument is based in the unproven assumption that the public sector unions "bloated benefits and pensions" are at the root cause of Wisconsin's budget deficit.

The onus is on him to provide proof that this is indeed the case.

So far, you are refusing to understand that it is a PART of the problem that needs to be addressed......Governor Walker has already made the case so, the onus is not on me.

Lets face the REAL facts. It's now time for the public sector unions and its members to bite the proverbial bullet. Like in many states, their bloated pensions and benefits are no longer sustainable.........Nobody is taking their pay, benefits or pensions. They can still collectively bargain for pay. Benefits and pensions will now be off the table. They are just going to have to live with what they've agreed to, and not try to thug the state for more down the line. Those Benefit and pension plans are what most in the private sector can only dream of.

You can ignore all the evidence. Go ahead........You're a tax and spend liberal. That's your solution to everything. Doesn't matter what is presented, like the troofers and birfers, it will be ignored because it goes against everything you believe in.

 

[L.K.Eder]

So in the last 20 posts, we've gone from a good discussion, to grammar and semantics, to gay slams.

That is the chronology of losing, right there!

EPIC THREAD!!!!

Now quick.....someone bring up Hitler and we can all move on.

good discussion?

failing to link and calling people dumb is not a good discussion.