Wag the Dog?

[martybegan]

Winning is better than losing, and after almost 16 years of our troops fighting, people who volunteer nowadays know what they are getting into.

Sorry, bud can you define "winning" for me. Because we have been over there for 16 years and I'm not really sure what that is supposed to look like at this point.

How do you ask someone to be the last man to die for a mistake we made when he was a toddler?

Considering our Military is Volunteer, asking that question isn't that hard.

It's the same as asking a fireman to run into a fire, or a police officer to take down some nut on the street.

 

[JoeB131]

Considering our Military is Volunteer, asking that question isn't that hard.

It's the same as asking a fireman to run into a fire, or a police officer to take down some nut on the street.

That's right, just promise that poor kid a college education that never happens, and it's totally okay to make him risk life and limb for Trump's reputation.

Now, if we drafted Eric and Donald Junior and dropped their asses in Kabul, that would be different.

 

[Doc1]

Last night President Trump flipped one more time. Anyone who listened last night heard once again the same rhetoric we heard from Nixon and G. W. Bush before they sent our troops into harms way, and too many died or were seriously injured in a war of attrition.

HIS strategy is his alone, he tired to have the Generals take responsibility and they in mass made it his decision. Thus he is now responsible for the 16 year war in Afghanistan. Trump will have no one to blame now, but himself (something he will never do)!

Good lord, the stupid is strong in this one. Trump is responsible from Jan 20 on. Go easy on him, he is following his Bankster Bosses orders.

 

[martybegan]

Considering our Military is Volunteer, asking that question isn't that hard.

It's the same as asking a fireman to run into a fire, or a police officer to take down some nut on the street.

That's right, just promise that poor kid a college education that never happens, and it's totally okay to make him risk life and limb for Trump's reputation.

Now, if we drafted Eric and Donald Junior and dropped their asses in Kabul, that would be different.

yes. The volunteer Military is just that. And considering we have been fighting a low grade conflict for 16 years now people know what to expect.

Risk/Reward.

When a Draft is in place then it is different.

 

[JoeB131]

yes. The volunteer Military is just that. And considering we have been fighting a low grade conflict for 16 years now people know what to expect.

Risk/Reward.

When a Draft is in place then it is different.

Naw, man, if this conflict is THAT important, the Trump boys need to sign up, RIGHT NOW!!!

You see, what we need to do is have a draft, if this is so fucking important. And then the children of the rich and the powerful should be put into an elite airborne unit that will be the first deployed to ANY war zone.

I promise you, when that happens, you won't see us getting into wars over bullshit.

 

[martybegan]

yes. The volunteer Military is just that. And considering we have been fighting a low grade conflict for 16 years now people know what to expect.

Risk/Reward.

When a Draft is in place then it is different.

Naw, man, if this conflict is THAT important, the Trump boys need to sign up, RIGHT NOW!!!

You see, what we need to do is have a draft, if this is so fucking important. And then the children of the rich and the powerful should be put into an elite airborne unit that will be the first deployed to ANY war zone.

I promise you, when that happens, you won't see us getting into wars over bullshit.

Nope. The Military Brass wants a professional Army/Navy. Your emotional response is just posturing, nothing more.

We expect firemen to fight fires, we expect police officers to put their lives on the line. All know what they are getting into. Same thing with volunteer solider/sailors/airmen/marines.

 

[JoeB131]

Nope. The Military Brass wants a professional Army/Navy. Your emotional response is just posturing, nothing more.

We expect firemen to fight fires, we expect police officers to put their lives on the line. All know what they are getting into. Same thing with volunteer solider/sailors/airmen/marines.

Here's the problem with that argument.

If I'm a cop or a firefighter and I don't like my job, I can quit and go do something else. No consequences. I also have a union that can argue for better working conditions and better pay.

Right now, there is a young man named Bowe Bergdahl, who decided he really didn't like his unit and walked off. Because the Army is fucking vindictive and he made them look bad after they lied to the American Public for five years, they are putting him on trial and he may spend the rest of his life in prison.

Also, the brass didn't ask for an all-volunteer force. The people demanded it because the draft we were using was unfair.

 

[martybegan]

Nope. The Military Brass wants a professional Army/Navy. Your emotional response is just posturing, nothing more.

We expect firemen to fight fires, we expect police officers to put their lives on the line. All know what they are getting into. Same thing with volunteer solider/sailors/airmen/marines.

Here's the problem with that argument.

If I'm a cop or a firefighter and I don't like my job, I can quit and go do something else. No consequences. I also have a union that can argue for better working conditions and better pay.

Right now, there is a young man named Bowe Bergdahl, who decided he really didn't like his unit and walked off. Because the Army is fucking vindictive and he made them look bad after they lied to the American Public for five years, they are putting him on trial and he may spend the rest of his life in prison.

Also, the brass didn't ask for an all-volunteer force. The people demanded it because the draft we were using was unfair.

And you know all that going into it. the Paperwork says you are committed to X amount of years. Unlike you I trust my fellow citizens enough to hope they understand the fucking writing they are signing.

The Brass prefers it because they get to keep people longer, train people longer, and the ones that stay want to stay.

He deserted, fuck him.

 

[JoeB131]

And you know all that going into it. the Paperwork says you are committed to X amount of years. Unlike you I trust my fellow citizens enough to hope they understand the fucking writing they are signing.

The Brass prefers it because they get to keep people longer, train people longer, and the ones that stay want to stay.

He deserted, fuck him.

But you think he should be just like a cop. A cop can get home from his patrol one day and say, "Fuck it, I'd rather sell air conditioners".

If you want to have the same standards for soldiers, they should be able to do the same thing.

As for Bergdahl, the army signed off on him joining despite the fact he got a psych discharge from the Coast Guard. Then they stuck him in a combat zone, hyped him up on "Go Pills" and wondered why he did something stupid?

 

[martybegan]

And you know all that going into it. the Paperwork says you are committed to X amount of years. Unlike you I trust my fellow citizens enough to hope they understand the fucking writing they are signing.

The Brass prefers it because they get to keep people longer, train people longer, and the ones that stay want to stay.

He deserted, fuck him.

But you think he should be just like a cop. A cop can get home from his patrol one day and say, "Fuck it, I'd rather sell air conditioners".

If you want to have the same standards for soldiers, they should be able to do the same thing.

As for Bergdahl, the army signed off on him joining despite the fact he got a psych discharge from the Coast Guard. Then they stuck him in a combat zone, hyped him up on "Go Pills" and wondered why he did something stupid?

And he knows that going in. he also knows he may lose his pension. Risk/Reward.

No, because a military commitment is just that. There is no gun to your head when you sign the papers. It's the way it has always worked.

No sympathy.

 

[JoeB131]

No sympathy.

of course not, that would require you to have common decency...

No, because a military commitment is just that. There is no gun to your head when you sign the papers. It's the way it has always worked.

No, there's a gun to your head AFTER you sign the papers up until your time is up. Unless you had the bad luck to serve during the War on an Emotional State, in which case they can call you back after you served your time.

Which is why a lot of guys weren't signing up, and the army ended up with people like Bradley/Chelsea Manning and Bowe Bergdahl... People who normally would have washed out in boot camp.

 

[martybegan]

No sympathy.

of course not, that would require you to have common decency...

No, because a military commitment is just that. There is no gun to your head when you sign the papers. It's the way it has always worked.

No, there's a gun to your head AFTER you sign the papers up until your time is up. Unless you had the bad luck to serve during the War on an Emotional State, in which case they can call you back after you served your time.

Which is why a lot of guys weren't signing up, and the army ended up with people like Bradley/Chelsea Manning and Bowe Bergdahl... People who normally would have washed out in boot camp.

I have more sympathy for the guys who went looking for him. People make choices, he made a bad one. Fuck him.

That's the whole thing about a "commitment". If you are that bent about it, do your time in Leavenworth and get dishonorably discharged.

 

[JoeB131]

I have more sympathy for the guys who went looking for him. People make choices, he made a bad one. Fuck him.

That's the whole thing about a "commitment". If you are that bent about it, do your time in Leavenworth and get dishonorably discharged.

You can't have it both ways. Either it's voluntary or it's servitude.

And if you want to make it servitude, you Libertarian Kook, you, then we damn well better make that servitude fair. Draft the children of the rich and put them into elite airborne units that will be the first deployed to a war zone.

Peace in our Time, bitches.

 

[martybegan]

I have more sympathy for the guys who went looking for him. People make choices, he made a bad one. Fuck him.

That's the whole thing about a "commitment". If you are that bent about it, do your time in Leavenworth and get dishonorably discharged.

You can't have it both ways. Either it's voluntary or it's servitude.

And if you want to make it servitude, you Libertarian Kook, you, then we damn well better make that servitude fair. Draft the children of the rich and put them into elite airborne units that will be the first deployed to a war zone.

Peace in our Time, bitches.

It's voluntary servitude. It's been that way for a century or more.

Again, don't like it? Don't sign up.

Nope.

I like having firemen around, and I am not expected to run into a fire because of it. Your "logic" is based on your political idiocy.

 

[JoeB131]

It's voluntary servitude. It's been that way for a century or more.

Well, no, actually, it hasn't been. from 1941 to 1973, we had selective service. Except what happened was it went from "everyone has to serve" to "rich assholes could buy their way out, even in wartime."

Which is how you get Lush Rimjob getting out for a cyst on his ass or George W. Stupid getting a slot in the National Guard and never actually showing up for drills.

Now the wonderful part of that was before they corrupted the system, the rich kid went to war right next to the poor kid. which means the rich, when deciding whether we go to war or not, really seriously considered the consequences.

So either you make it a job you can quit like everyone else can, or you make it involuntary servitude where you have to go whether you like it or not.

Sounds fair to me. We'd have the politicians abusing the system a lot less.

I like having firemen around, and I am not expected to run into a fire because of it. Your "logic" is based on your political idiocy.

Except you don't make someone run into a fire after he decided he doesn't want to do that for a living anymore. You seem to have no problem doing that to some poor kid who never should have been enlisted to start with, but they weren't able to make quota, so they took the rejects from the Coast Guard.

 

[martybegan]

It's voluntary servitude. It's been that way for a century or more.

Well, no, actually, it hasn't been. from 1941 to 1973, we had selective service. Except what happened was it went from "everyone has to serve" to "rich assholes could buy their way out, even in wartime."

Which is how you get Lush Rimjob getting out for a cyst on his ass or George W. Stupid getting a slot in the National Guard and never actually showing up for drills.

Now the wonderful part of that was before they corrupted the system, the rich kid went to war right next to the poor kid. which means the rich, when deciding whether we go to war or not, really seriously considered the consequences.

So either you make it a job you can quit like everyone else can, or you make it involuntary servitude where you have to go whether you like it or not.

Sounds fair to me. We'd have the politicians abusing the system a lot less.

I like having firemen around, and I am not expected to run into a fire because of it. Your "logic" is based on your political idiocy.

Except you don't make someone run into a fire after he decided he doesn't want to do that for a living anymore. You seem to have no problem doing that to some poor kid who never should have been enlisted to start with, but they weren't able to make quota, so they took the rejects from the Coast Guard.

Draft rules are different than current rules. In a draft no one should get non-medical deferments. If you are 1A you go.

GWB actually did fly a fighter, which is also risky, and the Letter you are referring to has been proven to be a fraud.

Or we stay with the current system, voluntary servitude, and you stop whining like a little bitch.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Last night President Trump flipped one more time. Anyone who listened last night heard once again the same rhetoric we heard from Nixon and G. W. Bush before they sent our troops into harms way, and too many died or were seriously injured in a war of attrition.

HIS strategy is his alone, he tired to have the Generals take responsibility and they in mass made it his decision. Thus he is now responsible for the 16 year war in Afghanistan. Trump will have no one to blame now, but himself (something he will never do)!

Good lord, the stupid is strong in this one. Trump is responsible from Jan 20 on. Go easy on him, he is following his Bankster Bosses orders.

You really are not very bright, your loyalty to Trump explains why the family of Charles Manson did his bidding.

 

[JoeB131]

Draft rules are different than current rules. In a draft no one should get non-medical deferments. If you are 1A you go.

Works for me. But there were a whole lot of non-medical deferments used by the likes of Cheney, Gingrich, Mitt Romney and other republican heroes who can't wait to send poor kids off to war today.

GWB actually did fly a fighter, which is also risky, and the Letter you are referring to has been proven to be a fraud.

I didn't refer to any "letter". It is an established fact that George W. Bush did not report for drills for the period of 1972 to 1973. Probably a lot of other guys didn't, either, because once the draft and Vietnam were winding down, those guys just found better things to do.

Or we stay with the current system, voluntary servitude, and you stop whining like a little bitch.

But that system doesn't work. Not when you have National Guard units being deployed three or four times, or having to keep lowering the enlistment standards to accept HS Dropouts, criminals, and people with mental issues like Bergdahl and Manning. Not when you have to impose "Stop-Loss" to keep guys in years after their initial enlistments ended or worse, pulling them back in four years after their enlistment ended.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, yeah. And Trump. Let's not forget Trump got a non-medical deferment.

 

[Redfish]

Last night President Trump flipped one more time. Anyone who listened last night heard once again the same rhetoric we heard from Nixon and G. W. Bush before they sent our troops into harms way, and too many died or were seriously injured in a war of attrition.

HIS strategy is his alone, he tired to have the Generals take responsibility and they in mass made it his decision. Thus he is now responsible for the 16 year war in Afghanistan. Trump will have no one to blame now, but himself (something he will never do)!

Huge difference. Nixon, Bush, Kennedy, Johnson, and Clinton got us into wars with no goal of winning. Trump has a plan to win in Afghanistan. Unlike Viet Nam, Kosovo, and Iraq under his "go to war but don't hurt anyone" predecessors. Let the military do its jobs and wars end quickly, tie their hands and they go on forever (or we declare defeat as we did in Viet Nam).