Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature currently requires accessing the site using the built-in Safari browser.
Not discussing the right or wrong aspect of gay marriage,
OK, here is your chance. Our laws are built on the principle, embodied in the equal protection and due process clause of State Constitutions as we'll as the 14th Amendment of the United States Constitution and that like situated citizens should not be discriminated against by the government without a compelling government interest. Neither tradition or religion are compelling reasons for government to discriminate.
So, please articulate a secular compelling government interests on why law abiding, tax paying, US citizen, infertile, consenting, adults in a different-sex couples should be treated differently than law abiding, tax paying, US citizen, infertile, consenting, adults in a same-sex couples.
>>>>
Being a WA state voter, I am annoyed. This went before the people and we turned it down (I didn't vote one way or another on it) and our "representatives" have not listened to us. Same way with Quest field. Not discussing the right or wrong aspect of gay marriage, I'm sick of not being represented by the people we put into power. Heck, we had an initiative to limit the license tabs on cars to $30 and our governor just signed a bill adding another $40, once again ignoring the voters.
Why are you against gay marriage Sniper Kitty?
I'm not, per se. I'm against the government going against the people. didn't you read the part where I didn't vote one way or another on the issue? The truth is that when I was in highschool I was certain gays should have the same rights to marry as heterosexuals. But when I had kids, suddenly I didn't know as much as I knew in highschool. Truth is I don't know what the effect will be on society one way or another which is why I remain nuetral on the issue at this point in time.
Why are you against gay marriage Sniper Kitty?
I'm not, per se. I'm against the government going against the people. didn't you read the part where I didn't vote one way or another on the issue? The truth is that when I was in highschool I was certain gays should have the same rights to marry as heterosexuals. But when I had kids, suddenly I didn't know as much as I knew in highschool. Truth is I don't know what the effect will be on society one way or another which is why I remain nuetral on the issue at this point in time.
Well, in the society that I lived in for 20 years (U.S. Navy), there were gays onboard and there was no breakdown in morale or the effectiveness of the ship.
Think maybe your hesitation might have come because you had kids and wondered "what if a gay person molests my child"? That may have merit if it wasn't for the fact that MOST child molestations are done by heterosexuals.
As far as what I've seen (and I even lived with a lesbian couple for 2 years on my last sea tour) gay relationships and straight relationships are pretty much the same, the only difference is the sex. They have the same problems, same goals, and same hopes as relationships between men and women. And.........to tell you the truth, gay couples stay with each other BECAUSE THEY WANT TO, not because of some legal document. Their level of commitment to each other is pretty big.
And, I'm glad that the U.S. Military has finally decided to do what all other NATO countries do, and allow gays to serve openly.
Being a WA state voter, I am annoyed. This went before the people and we turned it down (I didn't vote one way or another on it) and our "representatives" have not listened to us.
Could you provide some details like an initiative or referendum number, even a year might be helpful.
>>>>
It was about 5 years ago. It's been mentioned in news articles recently.
I'm not, per se. I'm against the government going against the people. didn't you read the part where I didn't vote one way or another on the issue? The truth is that when I was in highschool I was certain gays should have the same rights to marry as heterosexuals. But when I had kids, suddenly I didn't know as much as I knew in highschool. Truth is I don't know what the effect will be on society one way or another which is why I remain nuetral on the issue at this point in time.
Well, in the society that I lived in for 20 years (U.S. Navy), there were gays onboard and there was no breakdown in morale or the effectiveness of the ship.
Think maybe your hesitation might have come because you had kids and wondered "what if a gay person molests my child"? That may have merit if it wasn't for the fact that MOST child molestations are done by heterosexuals.
As far as what I've seen (and I even lived with a lesbian couple for 2 years on my last sea tour) gay relationships and straight relationships are pretty much the same, the only difference is the sex. They have the same problems, same goals, and same hopes as relationships between men and women. And.........to tell you the truth, gay couples stay with each other BECAUSE THEY WANT TO, not because of some legal document. Their level of commitment to each other is pretty big.
And, I'm glad that the U.S. Military has finally decided to do what all other NATO countries do, and allow gays to serve openly.
Naw, it's more likely to have been "'What if my kid's gay and I don't have grandchildren!"
I really want grandchildren.
Could you provide some details like an initiative or referendum number, even a year might be helpful.
>>>>
It was about 5 years ago. It's been mentioned in news articles recently.
That's not very helpful in attempting to confirm what you said. But let's work with that.
2012 - 5 = 2007. Then we'll take 2-years on each side as a buffer.
Below is a list of all Washington State voter actions for the years 2007 through 2008, which of them was the vote on rejecting Same-sex Civil Marriage again?
- 2009 | I 1033 | Limit growth of certain state, county and city revenue to annual inflation and population growth
- 2009 | R 71 | Expansion of domestic partnership rights
- 2008 | I-985 | Various changes in traffic regulation
- 2008 | I-1000 | Allow terminally ill adults access to lethal medication under some circumstances
- 2008 | I-1029 | Licensing, regulation of long-term healthcare workers
- 2007 | I-960 | Approval of 2/3rds of legislature, or voter approval, for tax increases, public information about tax increases
- 2007 | R 67 | Insurers prohibited from unreasonably denying certain coverage claims.
- 2007 | SJR 8206 | Legislature required to transfer 1% of general state revenues to a budget stabilization account each year
- 2007 | SJR 8212 | State-operated inmate labor programs run by private contractors
- 2007 | HJR 4204 | Approval of school district excess property tax levies by simple majority vote of participating voters
- 2007 | HJR 4215 | Authorize investment of money in higher education permanent funds as permitted by law
- 2006 | I-920 | Repeal of laws imposing estate taxes
- 2006 | I-933 | Requires compensation when government regulation damages the value of private property
- 2006 | I-937 | Require electric utilities to meet targets for energy conservation
- 2006 | HJR 4223 | Increases "head of household" exemption to $15,000
- 2005 | I-900 | Performance audits of state and local government agencies and entities
- 2005 | I-901 | Prohibit smoking in public places and in places of employment
- 2005 | I-912 | Repeal motor vehicle fuel tax increases of 3 cents in 2005 and 2006, 2 cents in 2007, and 1.5 cents per gallon in 2008
- 2005 | I-330 | Limit non-economic damages in medical malpractice cases to $350,000, limit attorney fees
- 2005 | I-336 | Establish a supplemental malpractice insurance program for liability exceeding private insurance
- 2005 | SJR 8207 | Replace the phrase "district court judges" with the term "limited jurisdiction court judges."
If it's not on that list here are all the state ballot votes in Washington State between 1900 and 2012, so maybe you could find it for us. -->> List of Washington State Initiatives to the People - Ballotpedia
>>>>
Not discussing the right or wrong aspect of gay marriage,
OK, here is your chance. Our laws are built on the principle, embodied in the equal protection and due process clause of State Constitutions as we'll as the 14th Amendment of the United States Constitution and that like situated citizens should not be discriminated against by the government without a compelling government interest. Neither tradition or religion are compelling reasons for government to discriminate.
So, please articulate a secular compelling government interests on why law abiding, tax paying, US citizen, infertile, consenting, adults in a different-sex couples should be treated differently than law abiding, tax paying, US citizen, infertile, consenting, adults in a same-sex couples.
>>>>
Sorry, that's not my call. I was discussing the fact that our government doesn't listen to the people, not the right or wrong of gay marriage. The truth is, I don't care. I have no idea what the affects this will have on society are, so I don't think it's up to me to make that decision. When it came before the people, I abstained.
Naw, it's more likely to have been "'What if my kid's gay and I don't have grandchildren!"
I really want grandchildren.
Well, in the society that I lived in for 20 years (U.S. Navy), there were gays onboard and there was no breakdown in morale or the effectiveness of the ship.
Think maybe your hesitation might have come because you had kids and wondered "what if a gay person molests my child"? That may have merit if it wasn't for the fact that MOST child molestations are done by heterosexuals.
As far as what I've seen (and I even lived with a lesbian couple for 2 years on my last sea tour) gay relationships and straight relationships are pretty much the same, the only difference is the sex. They have the same problems, same goals, and same hopes as relationships between men and women. And.........to tell you the truth, gay couples stay with each other BECAUSE THEY WANT TO, not because of some legal document. Their level of commitment to each other is pretty big.
And, I'm glad that the U.S. Military has finally decided to do what all other NATO countries do, and allow gays to serve openly.
Naw, it's more likely to have been "'What if my kid's gay and I don't have grandchildren!"
I really want grandchildren.
Hey.........plenty of gay men get surrogates, and plenty of gay women get inseminated.
I've known of a few.
Naw, it's more likely to have been "'What if my kid's gay and I don't have grandchildren!"
I really want grandchildren.
No matter anything else, I truly hope you are blessed with fine and healthy grandchildren.
>>>>
It was about 5 years ago. It's been mentioned in news articles recently.
That's not very helpful in attempting to confirm what you said. But let's work with that.
2012 - 5 = 2007. Then we'll take 2-years on each side as a buffer.
Below is a list of all Washington State voter actions for the years 2007 through 2008, which of them was the vote on rejecting Same-sex Civil Marriage again?
- 2009 | I 1033 | Limit growth of certain state, county and city revenue to annual inflation and population growth
- 2009 | R 71 | Expansion of domestic partnership rights
- 2008 | I-985 | Various changes in traffic regulation
- 2008 | I-1000 | Allow terminally ill adults access to lethal medication under some circumstances
- 2008 | I-1029 | Licensing, regulation of long-term healthcare workers
- 2007 | I-960 | Approval of 2/3rds of legislature, or voter approval, for tax increases, public information about tax increases
- 2007 | R 67 | Insurers prohibited from unreasonably denying certain coverage claims.
- 2007 | SJR 8206 | Legislature required to transfer 1% of general state revenues to a budget stabilization account each year
- 2007 | SJR 8212 | State-operated inmate labor programs run by private contractors
- 2007 | HJR 4204 | Approval of school district excess property tax levies by simple majority vote of participating voters
- 2007 | HJR 4215 | Authorize investment of money in higher education permanent funds as permitted by law
- 2006 | I-920 | Repeal of laws imposing estate taxes
- 2006 | I-933 | Requires compensation when government regulation damages the value of private property
- 2006 | I-937 | Require electric utilities to meet targets for energy conservation
- 2006 | HJR 4223 | Increases "head of household" exemption to $15,000
- 2005 | I-900 | Performance audits of state and local government agencies and entities
- 2005 | I-901 | Prohibit smoking in public places and in places of employment
- 2005 | I-912 | Repeal motor vehicle fuel tax increases of 3 cents in 2005 and 2006, 2 cents in 2007, and 1.5 cents per gallon in 2008
- 2005 | I-330 | Limit non-economic damages in medical malpractice cases to $350,000, limit attorney fees
- 2005 | I-336 | Establish a supplemental malpractice insurance program for liability exceeding private insurance
- 2005 | SJR 8207 | Replace the phrase "district court judges" with the term "limited jurisdiction court judges."
If it's not on that list here are all the state ballot votes in Washington State between 1900 and 2012, so maybe you could find it for us. -->> List of Washington State Initiatives to the People - Ballotpedia
>>>>
Look, take me at my word or call me a liar.. I don't give a crap. I've lived in WA state mostly since I was 9. I know our history. I'm not going to research something I know happened just to prove to you I'm not lying. I'm not a liar and therefore I shouldn't have to prove I'm not lying. If you don't want to accept that one, take the Quest field one and accept it. Most WA state voters over 25 know exactly what I'm talking about.
You obviously want to pick a fight, go pick it with someone else.
OK, here is your chance. Our laws are built on the principle, embodied in the equal protection and due process clause of State Constitutions as we'll as the 14th Amendment of the United States Constitution and that like situated citizens should not be discriminated against by the government without a compelling government interest. Neither tradition or religion are compelling reasons for government to discriminate.
So, please articulate a secular compelling government interests on why law abiding, tax paying, US citizen, infertile, consenting, adults in a different-sex couples should be treated differently than law abiding, tax paying, US citizen, infertile, consenting, adults in a same-sex couples.
>>>>
Sorry, that's not my call. I was discussing the fact that our government doesn't listen to the people, not the right or wrong of gay marriage. The truth is, I don't care. I have no idea what the affects this will have on society are, so I don't think it's up to me to make that decision. When it came before the people, I abstained.
So you ask to have a discussion and I opened the door about having a discussion as to why the government should discriminate against citizens on the basis of gender as it pertains to secular law and Civil Marriage, but you don't want to have that discussion?
BTW - this discussion has been taking place in the public arena for about the last 20 years since the early 1990's when it appeared that Hawaii might legalize Same-sex Civil Marriage.
>>>>
Naw, it's more likely to have been "'What if my kid's gay and I don't have grandchildren!"
I really want grandchildren.
Hey.........plenty of gay men get surrogates, and plenty of gay women get inseminated.
I've known of a few.
Doesn't count. If my son has a baby, I want to know the baby's mother and I believe kids need both a mom and a dad, not two dads or two moms, though I will conceed that two dads or two moms is better than one parent.
Though odds are, I won't have grandkids anyway as both my kids are special needs.
That's not very helpful in attempting to confirm what you said. But let's work with that.
2012 - 5 = 2007. Then we'll take 2-years on each side as a buffer.
Below is a list of all Washington State voter actions for the years 2007 through 2008, which of them was the vote on rejecting Same-sex Civil Marriage again?
- 2009 | I 1033 | Limit growth of certain state, county and city revenue to annual inflation and population growth
- 2009 | R 71 | Expansion of domestic partnership rights
- 2008 | I-985 | Various changes in traffic regulation
- 2008 | I-1000 | Allow terminally ill adults access to lethal medication under some circumstances
- 2008 | I-1029 | Licensing, regulation of long-term healthcare workers
- 2007 | I-960 | Approval of 2/3rds of legislature, or voter approval, for tax increases, public information about tax increases
- 2007 | R 67 | Insurers prohibited from unreasonably denying certain coverage claims.
- 2007 | SJR 8206 | Legislature required to transfer 1% of general state revenues to a budget stabilization account each year
- 2007 | SJR 8212 | State-operated inmate labor programs run by private contractors
- 2007 | HJR 4204 | Approval of school district excess property tax levies by simple majority vote of participating voters
- 2007 | HJR 4215 | Authorize investment of money in higher education permanent funds as permitted by law
- 2006 | I-920 | Repeal of laws imposing estate taxes
- 2006 | I-933 | Requires compensation when government regulation damages the value of private property
- 2006 | I-937 | Require electric utilities to meet targets for energy conservation
- 2006 | HJR 4223 | Increases "head of household" exemption to $15,000
- 2005 | I-900 | Performance audits of state and local government agencies and entities
- 2005 | I-901 | Prohibit smoking in public places and in places of employment
- 2005 | I-912 | Repeal motor vehicle fuel tax increases of 3 cents in 2005 and 2006, 2 cents in 2007, and 1.5 cents per gallon in 2008
- 2005 | I-330 | Limit non-economic damages in medical malpractice cases to $350,000, limit attorney fees
- 2005 | I-336 | Establish a supplemental malpractice insurance program for liability exceeding private insurance
- 2005 | SJR 8207 | Replace the phrase "district court judges" with the term "limited jurisdiction court judges."
If it's not on that list here are all the state ballot votes in Washington State between 1900 and 2012, so maybe you could find it for us. -->> List of Washington State Initiatives to the People - Ballotpedia
>>>>
Look, take me at my word or call me a liar.. I don't give a crap. I've lived in WA state mostly since I was 9. I know our history. I'm not going to research something I know happened just to prove to you I'm not lying. I'm not a liar and therefore I shouldn't have to prove I'm not lying. If you don't want to accept that one, take the Quest field one and accept it. Most WA state voters over 25 know exactly what I'm talking about.
You obviously want to pick a fight, go pick it with someone else.
As a resident of said State. You are 100% correct.
Only 43 states to go, and they're falling in line quickly.
you feel the same way over right to work?
I do as I support both.
Gay marriage and right to work are as conservative as it gets.
Less government control.
Look, take me at my word or call me a liar.. I don't give a crap. I've lived in WA state mostly since I was 9. I know our history. I'm not going to research something I know happened just to prove to you I'm not lying. I'm not a liar and therefore I shouldn't have to prove I'm not lying. If you don't want to accept that one, take the Quest field one and accept it. Most WA state voters over 25 know exactly what I'm talking about.
You obviously want to pick a fight, go pick it with someone else.
Look, take me at my word or call me a liar.. I don't give a crap. I've lived in WA state mostly since I was 9. I know our history. I'm not going to research something I know happened just to prove to you I'm not lying. I'm not a liar and therefore I shouldn't have to prove I'm not lying. If you don't want to accept that one, take the Quest field one and accept it. Most WA state voters over 25 know exactly what I'm talking about.
You obviously want to pick a fight, go pick it with someone else.
Not trying to pick a fight and not trying to call you a liar, you may be correct you may be mistaken - but I don't think you are lying (as in a known false statement made with the intent to deceive) so relax.
You made a positive affirmation that you voted in a Washington state initiative on Same-sex Civil Marriage and that the vote was to reject such a position.So I reviewed all state ballot initiatives between 2000 and 2011, since most of the iniative votes were in 2000 & 2004. None of the votes had anything to do with rejecting Same-sex Civil Marriage. The closest things to the topic were the rejection of Referendum 71 thereby allowing full Domestic Partnership privileges and a 1997 initiative that was also rejected to allow employment discrimination based on sexual orientation.
>>>>
Sorry, that's not my call. I was discussing the fact that our government doesn't listen to the people, not the right or wrong of gay marriage. The truth is, I don't care. I have no idea what the affects this will have on society are, so I don't think it's up to me to make that decision. When it came before the people, I abstained.
So you ask to have a discussion and I opened the door about having a discussion as to why the government should discriminate against citizens on the basis of gender as it pertains to secular law and Civil Marriage, but you don't want to have that discussion?
BTW - this discussion has been taking place in the public arena for about the last 20 years since the early 1990's when it appeared that Hawaii might legalize Same-sex Civil Marriage.
>>>>
I believe my response was basically "not to disccuss the right or wrong of gay marriage" IE, I didn't want to discuss it.
BTW, the discussion has been taking place for a lot longer than 20 years. We were discussing it when I was in highschool and that was in the 70's.
