VietNam..April 30th....How It Ended.

[Oldguy]

what brought this on PoliChic? Two citations for all of that as well? Notable quotables & a Joan Baez quote link?

Anyway, you ever hear of the gulf of Tonkin "incident"? What are your views of the military industrial complex and the lengths to which it will go to feed the beast (contractors like the modern day halliburtons, KBR's, BlackWaters, ect... and their politician, water-carriers)?

All I know about the Tonkin Gulf incident is that I personally knew a guy who was on the USS Maddox that day in the FDC shack and HE says there was definitely somebody out there and they WERE shooting at them.

 

[namvet]

poor namvet, too much
Orange Koolaid

Koolaid Drinker

People who believe anything they are told. people who refuse to change there minds when confronted with facts.
a koolaid drinker is the liberal democrat who is liberal because they are told they should be. they have made no attempt to decide why the are liberal.
often a koolaid "drinker" simply wants to hate anything a republican does good or bad.
koolaid people are the vocal howard dean wing of the democrat party. the converse of rightwing loonies.
koolaid drinkers are the ones that went first when jim jones said drink.

up and down liberal

 

[namvet]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_krQH_zZqE]Bill Frederick - Hey, Hey, LBJ - YouTube[/ame]

 

[9thIDdoc]

Vietnam belonged to the Vietnamese. We did not belong there. We stayed too long. Most all of the heroic sacrifices were for nothing.

South Vietnam belonged to the South Vietnamese. The North Vietnamese had no more right to it than anyone else.

The US congress was responsible for making sure that RSVN and US military sacrifices were ineffective. We abandoned an ally in it's time of need and proved that we could not be trusted to honor our commitments, Certainly a cause for shame.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Another anniversary is coming up on May 4th.

OHIO CSNY ( got audio back) - Kent State Massacre Montage - YouTube

CSN&Y- Ohio

Damn....I remember that one well.

So do I became I lost more friends at close to exactly the same time in Cambodia and in both cases it was communist assholes ultimately responsible for the deaths.

 

[Desperado]

VietNam..April 30th....How It Ended

Many things can be said about the way it ended.
"Badly" comes to mind as well as "not soon enough"
Way to many American lives were lost for no apparent reason.
We gained nothing by fighting in that country.

 

[Oldguy]

VietNam..April 30th....How It Ended

Many things can be said about the way it ended.
"Badly" comes to mind as well as "not soon enough"
Way to many American lives were lost for no apparent reason.
We gained nothing by fighting in that country.

We gained precisely nothing by fighting there and the effects of it are still being felt today.

But, who could have known that then?

 

[Oldguy]

Another anniversary is coming up on May 4th.

OHIO CSNY ( got audio back) - Kent State Massacre Montage - YouTube

CSN&Y- Ohio

Damn....I remember that one well.

So do I became I lost more friends at close to exactly the same time in Cambodia and in both cases it was communist assholes ultimately responsible for the deaths.

Communist's were responsible for Kent State? I'd REALLY like to hear your explanation of THAT!

 

[9thIDdoc]

April 30...WHAT YEAR??? That detail does make considerable difference.

 

[konradv]

Vietnam belonged to the Vietnamese. We did not belong there. We stayed too long. Most all of the heroic sacrifices were for nothing.

South Vietnam belonged to the South Vietnamese. The North Vietnamese had no more right to it than anyone else.

Then why weren't they allowed to vote on what government they wanted? The north didn't get involved until it became apparent that the people of the south weren't going to get to choose whether they wanted separate countries or unification.

 

[konradv]

Another anniversary is coming up on May 4th.

OHIO CSNY ( got audio back) - Kent State Massacre Montage - YouTube

CSN&Y- Ohio

1. Let's note in passing that you have not one gripe with the construction of the OP....because not only is every item correct...but the conclusion is indisputable.

So....what remains for you?
Yup.....try to change the subject.


2. Now...that particular subject....a terrific fall-back for a Leftist, 'cause you have been trained to respond to the phrase 'Kent State' similarly to the efforts of Pavlov, with his subjects.




And this is largely because you don't know what you think you know....I'm reminded of the saying about how mushrooms are raised.


3. The folks who control the information that leads you down the primrose path, are the same ones who brought you the upheavals of the 60's.

Instructive of the movement is the new evidence released by the FBI as to the causes of the Kent State shootings of 1970.
“Previously undisclosed FBI documents suggest that the Kent State antiwar protests were more meticulously planned than originally thought and that one or more gunshots may have been fired at embattled Ohio National Guardsmen before their killings of four students and woundings of at least nine others on that searing day in May 1970….

Yet the declassified FBI files show the FBI already had developed credible evidence suggesting that there was indeed a sniper and that one or more shots may have been fired at the guardsmen first….And a memorandum sent to FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover on May 19, 1970, referred to bullet holes found in a tree and a statue — evidence, the report stated, that “indicated that at least two shots had been fired at the National Guard.”
New light shed on Kent State killings - Washington Times


4. For perspective, consider the famous Weathermen ‘Days of Rage’ protests of the Chicago 7 trial in October 1969. Planned as war in the streets, even the Black Panthers decided that these folks were too psychotic even for them. Fred Hampton, deputy chairman of the Illinois chapter of the Black Panther Party (BPP), said “We oppose the anarchistic, adventuristic, chauvinistic, individualistic, masochistic, Custeristic Weathermen.”
Susan Braudy, “Family Circle: The Boudins and the Aristocracy of the Left,: p. 188

a. Too nuts for the Black Panthers, but they became respected advisors and co-authors to the current Democratic President.



b. At a 1969 “War Council” in Flint, Michigan, Bernardine Dohrn gave her most memorable and notorious speech to her followers. Holding her fingers in what became the Weatherman “fork salute,” she said of the bloody murders recently committed by the Manson Family in which the pregnant actress Sharon Tate and a Folgers Coffee heiress and several other inhabitants of a Benedict Canyon mansion were brutally stabbed to death: “Dig it! First they killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them. They even shoved a fork into the victim’s stomach! Wild!” Bernardine Dohrn - Discover the Networks


5. So...these are the folks that serve as teachers to you Leftists?
At other rallies, Dohrn said, "Bring the revolution home, kill your parents -- that's where it's at."


How very easy it is to lead the uninformed.

You're the truly uninformed. The whole reason why there was a war in Viet Nam is because we failed to allow democracy to take its course. We backed a minority regime that refused to allow a plebiscite on reunification and the rest, as they say, is history.

 

[Oldguy]

Another anniversary is coming up on May 4th.

OHIO CSNY ( got audio back) - Kent State Massacre Montage - YouTube

CSN&Y- Ohio

1. Let's note in passing that you have not one gripe with the construction of the OP....because not only is every item correct...but the conclusion is indisputable.

So....what remains for you?
Yup.....try to change the subject.


2. Now...that particular subject....a terrific fall-back for a Leftist, 'cause you have been trained to respond to the phrase 'Kent State' similarly to the efforts of Pavlov, with his subjects.




And this is largely because you don't know what you think you know....I'm reminded of the saying about how mushrooms are raised.


3. The folks who control the information that leads you down the primrose path, are the same ones who brought you the upheavals of the 60's.

Instructive of the movement is the new evidence released by the FBI as to the causes of the Kent State shootings of 1970.
“Previously undisclosed FBI documents suggest that the Kent State antiwar protests were more meticulously planned than originally thought and that one or more gunshots may have been fired at embattled Ohio National Guardsmen before their killings of four students and woundings of at least nine others on that searing day in May 1970….

Yet the declassified FBI files show the FBI already had developed credible evidence suggesting that there was indeed a sniper and that one or more shots may have been fired at the guardsmen first….And a memorandum sent to FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover on May 19, 1970, referred to bullet holes found in a tree and a statue — evidence, the report stated, that “indicated that at least two shots had been fired at the National Guard.”
New light shed on Kent State killings - Washington Times


4. For perspective, consider the famous Weathermen ‘Days of Rage’ protests of the Chicago 7 trial in October 1969. Planned as war in the streets, even the Black Panthers decided that these folks were too psychotic even for them. Fred Hampton, deputy chairman of the Illinois chapter of the Black Panther Party (BPP), said “We oppose the anarchistic, adventuristic, chauvinistic, individualistic, masochistic, Custeristic Weathermen.”
Susan Braudy, “Family Circle: The Boudins and the Aristocracy of the Left,: p. 188

a. Too nuts for the Black Panthers, but they became respected advisors and co-authors to the current Democratic President.



b. At a 1969 “War Council” in Flint, Michigan, Bernardine Dohrn gave her most memorable and notorious speech to her followers. Holding her fingers in what became the Weatherman “fork salute,” she said of the bloody murders recently committed by the Manson Family in which the pregnant actress Sharon Tate and a Folgers Coffee heiress and several other inhabitants of a Benedict Canyon mansion were brutally stabbed to death: “Dig it! First they killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them. They even shoved a fork into the victim’s stomach! Wild!” Bernardine Dohrn - Discover the Networks


5. So...these are the folks that serve as teachers to you Leftists?
At other rallies, Dohrn said, "Bring the revolution home, kill your parents -- that's where it's at."


How very easy it is to lead the uninformed.

You're the truly uninformed. The whole reason why there was a war in Viet Nam is because we failed to allow democracy to take its course. We backed a minority regime that refused to allow a plebiscite on reunification and the rest, as they say, is history.

BINGO! You get the brass ring!

 

[PoliticalChic]

Another anniversary is coming up on May 4th.

OHIO CSNY ( got audio back) - Kent State Massacre Montage - YouTube

CSN&Y- Ohio

1. Let's note in passing that you have not one gripe with the construction of the OP....because not only is every item correct...but the conclusion is indisputable.

So....what remains for you?
Yup.....try to change the subject.


2. Now...that particular subject....a terrific fall-back for a Leftist, 'cause you have been trained to respond to the phrase 'Kent State' similarly to the efforts of Pavlov, with his subjects.




And this is largely because you don't know what you think you know....I'm reminded of the saying about how mushrooms are raised.


3. The folks who control the information that leads you down the primrose path, are the same ones who brought you the upheavals of the 60's.

Instructive of the movement is the new evidence released by the FBI as to the causes of the Kent State shootings of 1970.
“Previously undisclosed FBI documents suggest that the Kent State antiwar protests were more meticulously planned than originally thought and that one or more gunshots may have been fired at embattled Ohio National Guardsmen before their killings of four students and woundings of at least nine others on that searing day in May 1970….

Yet the declassified FBI files show the FBI already had developed credible evidence suggesting that there was indeed a sniper and that one or more shots may have been fired at the guardsmen first….And a memorandum sent to FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover on May 19, 1970, referred to bullet holes found in a tree and a statue — evidence, the report stated, that “indicated that at least two shots had been fired at the National Guard.”
New light shed on Kent State killings - Washington Times


4. For perspective, consider the famous Weathermen ‘Days of Rage’ protests of the Chicago 7 trial in October 1969. Planned as war in the streets, even the Black Panthers decided that these folks were too psychotic even for them. Fred Hampton, deputy chairman of the Illinois chapter of the Black Panther Party (BPP), said “We oppose the anarchistic, adventuristic, chauvinistic, individualistic, masochistic, Custeristic Weathermen.”
Susan Braudy, “Family Circle: The Boudins and the Aristocracy of the Left,: p. 188

a. Too nuts for the Black Panthers, but they became respected advisors and co-authors to the current Democratic President.



b. At a 1969 “War Council” in Flint, Michigan, Bernardine Dohrn gave her most memorable and notorious speech to her followers. Holding her fingers in what became the Weatherman “fork salute,” she said of the bloody murders recently committed by the Manson Family in which the pregnant actress Sharon Tate and a Folgers Coffee heiress and several other inhabitants of a Benedict Canyon mansion were brutally stabbed to death: “Dig it! First they killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them. They even shoved a fork into the victim’s stomach! Wild!” Bernardine Dohrn - Discover the Networks


5. So...these are the folks that serve as teachers to you Leftists?
At other rallies, Dohrn said, "Bring the revolution home, kill your parents -- that's where it's at."


How very easy it is to lead the uninformed.

You're the truly uninformed. The whole reason why there was a war in Viet Nam is because we failed to allow democracy to take its course. We backed a minority regime that refused to allow a plebiscite on reunification and the rest, as they say, is history.

The reference to 'uninformed' was of your changing of the subject to Kent State.

But, you know that....don't you.

If the National Guard had been fired upon as the FBI states....that changes things, doesn't it?
And, since you were unaware of same, that pretty much proves who was uninformed.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Damn....I remember that one well.

So do I became I lost more friends at close to exactly the same time in Cambodia and in both cases it was communist assholes ultimately responsible for the deaths.

Communist's were responsible for Kent State? I'd REALLY like to hear your explanation of THAT!

"... I'd REALLY like to hear your explanation of THAT!"

Well...glad you're open to education.

The radicals in charge of groups such as the Weather Underground were communists, and planned to turn parts of the nation to China, Cuba, the Soviets....

...and open gulags,....

...and slay 25 million Americans.


Take notes:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlN2t0oERHk]Larry Grathwohl interview about William Ayers,Obama's Mentor - YouTube[/ame]

 

[PoliticalChic]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8apP1IxVUUc]Communists on Campus: The Weather Underground - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Desperado]

If the National Guard had been fired upon as the FBI states....that changes things, doesn't it?
And, since you were unaware of same, that pretty much proves who was uninformed.

A great read on the Kent State Massacre:
Four Dead In Ohio: Was There A Conspiracy At Kent State?

 

[PoliticalChic]

"KENT, Ohio -- A noisy, violent altercation and four pistol shots took place about 70 seconds before Ohio National Guardsmen opened fire on antiwar protesters at Kent State University, according to a new analysis of a 40-year-old audiotape of the event.
The discovery adds new perspective to -- and raises new questions about -- one of the signature events of the 20th century, after four decades of spirited discussion and research."
Kent State tape indicates altercation and pistol fire preceded National Guard shootings (audio) | cleveland.com

 

[bornright]

These guys aren't among the traders:

"At least 65,000 Vietnamese were murdered after the “liberation,” and up to 250,000 died in “re-education” camps. Thousands of “boat people” tried to flee, and perished at sea."


But I'm heartened to see that you haven't denied that these guys are traitors:

The Leftist Democrats.

I spoke to a Vietnamese American about six months ago. He told me after we left and the North took over they came to his house and dragged his father off and killed him. This man was only 9 when this occurred he still cries and did so in front of me. I did the "Obama thing" and apologized to him for our government abandoning them.

 

[José]

Originally posted by bornright
I spoke to a Vietnamese American about six months ago. He told me after we left and the North took over they came to his house and dragged his father off and killed him. This man was only 9 when this occurred he still cries and did so in front of me. I did the "Obama thing" and apologized to him for our government abandoning them.

Indeed.

France/America's disastrous interference in Vietnam's internal affairs to create and maintain an artificial, pseudo-country "led" by vietnamese puppets of french colonialism, turned what would be a peaceful declaration of independence soon after the japanese withdrawal into a wholesale bloodbath that lasted 30 years and claimed the lives of 1 million vietnamese.

All the fire of Hell is too little punishment for what those 2 countries did to Vietnam.

 

[Desperado]

VietNam..April 30th....How It Ended

Many things can be said about the way it ended.
"Badly" comes to mind as well as "not soon enough"
Way to many American lives were lost for no apparent reason.
We gained nothing by fighting in that country.

We gained precisely nothing by fighting there and the effects of it are still being felt today.

But, who could have known that then?

How about all those people that were protesting the war. I believe they had a clue.