US Military Camo, in use during WWII in the ETA

[Kruska]

My longtime barber and a former member in the Wehrmacht's Luftwaffe Paratrooper force had at many times been telling me about US troops during the Normandy landings and in the following 6 month - having worn camo-smogs and helmet covers.

The camouflage pattern was not that used by the USMC in the Pacific - but rather greenish leave patterns.
Just two day's ago I got to watch a war documentary - and yup, for the first time I saw a pattern that looked just as described by him. see photo

Does anyone have information as to what the US camo-fieldjacket or smog and trousers, looked like? and which or what US unit had been wearing these in France 1944.

Thanks

 

[1srelluc]

I believe that is a mosquito net being used as a helmet cover. They were issued to Army troops in the ETO as well as in the Pacific.....It's often called a USMC net but that would be incorrect.

They were even being used in early Vietnam as helmet covers....The thing with them was that they were very thin and tore/faded easily.

They were supposed to be worn under the helmet. The solid cloth portion up against the suspension system.

From what i understand nobody really liked them much....The four long strings are usually cut away when you find one unless it's unissued.

 

[AZrailwhale]

The Second Armored division issued camouflage uniforms to its infantry. It may have been more widespread, but I don't know.

 

[Kruska]

I believe that is a mosquito net being used as a helmet cover. They were issued to Army troops in the ETO as well as in the Pacific.....It's often called a USMC net but that would be incorrect.

They were even being used in early Vietnam as helmet covers....The thing with them was that they were very thin and tore/faded easily.

They were supposed to be worn under the helmet. The solid cloth portion up against the suspension system.

From what i understand nobody really liked them much....The four long strings are usually cut away when you find one unless it's unissued.

Not quite, there was a specific designed camo pattern for the ETO - took another photo from that WW2 documentary - it included a helmet cover and a smog - I am not sure about trousers - but the GI in front does seem to wear them.

Basically I am trying to find out as to whom my Barber had faced in action - so thanks AZrailwhale - I will check out onto the 2nd Armored Division - since he had mentioned an overwhelming force of US tanks attacking their positions.

 

[whitehall]

The USMC helmet came with a reversable cover. Brown for winter and green for summer.

 

[Kruska]

The USMC helmet came with a reversable cover. Brown for winter and green for summer.

Hmm... that might explain a lot - thanks - just checked and found this photo on the internet

Were the USMC smog and trouser- reversible as well? (pockets, buttons?)

Unfortunately only in B&W

Any info as to which US units having used that green summer camo in France in 1944 - and why did it vanish?

 

[whitehall]

Hmm... that might explain a lot - thanks - just checked and found this photo on the internet

Were the USMC smog and trouser- reversible as well? (pockets, buttons?)

View attachment 859247


Unfortunately only in B&W



View attachment 859267


Any info as to which US units having used that green summer camo in France in 1944 - and why did it vanish?

The Marines weren't involved in the European conflict. Marine Recon units in Pacific campaigns may have been equipped with camouflage uniforms but the issue was relatively miniscule.

 

[Kruska]

The Marines weren't involved in the European conflict. Marine Recon units in Pacific campaigns may have been equipped with camouflage uniforms but the issue was relatively miniscule.

Thanks - I am aware that there was no USMC involved in the ETO - the question would be did those GI's in the ETO make use of reversible USMC smogs and trousers - or did they have an own make and design. And what unit or units used them.

 

[whitehall]

Thanks - I am aware that there was no USMC involved in the ETO - the question would be did those GI's in the ETO make use of reversible USMC smogs and trousers - or did they have an own make and design. And what unit or units used them.

Having served in the USMC well after WW2 I can guarantee that Marines didn't have the opportunity to design or purchase their own uniforms.

 

[Kruska]

Having served in the USMC well after WW2 I can guarantee that Marines didn't have the opportunity to design or purchase their own uniforms.

Hmm...??

I had stated:
the question would be did those GI's in the ETO make use of reversible USMC smogs and trousers - or did they have an own make and design. And what unit or units used them.

That no soldier ever made an own design or purchased his own uniform is understood (aside from e.g. officers) - uniforms would be designed by designers e.g. (HUGO BOSS who designed the SS uniforms) and the MoD would decide onto which design to chose, purchase and distribute amongst whatever units.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Thanks - I am aware that there was no USMC involved in the ETO - the question would be did those GI's in the ETO make use of reversible USMC smogs and trousers - or did they have an own make and design. And what unit or units used them.

The Marine Corps did have its own uniforms.

 

[Kruska]

The Marine Corps did have its own uniforms.

Okay found a British site that explains it pretty well.

A camo uniform was actually designed for the US Army from 1940 onward - termed HBT uniform and was designed by horticulturist Norvell Gillespie. - and then later introduced to the USMC

US Camouflage Uniforms | War and Warfare

warandwarfare.uk

The two-piece camouflage HBT uniform was originally developed for jungle fighting. It is partially reversible, with a sand pattern on the inside. However the pockets are only on the green side of the uniform.
The first camouflage uniform issued to the USMC was the Army’s M1942 one-piece HBT uniform. This proved as unpopular as the plain ‘tankers overalls’, being to hot for the Pacific climate, and too heavy when wet. The one-piece design also proved difficult, and many Marines cut their own ‘bottom flaps’ in their uniforms for when nature called.

In 1943 the USMC adopted it`s own two-piece camouflage uniform which saw limited use in the battles of the Solomon Islands. It was made of the same reversible material as the Army version, but had flap-less pockets with a black printed USMC insignia on the breast.

This first USMC camouflage reversible was issued to the Marine raiders who used them in action at New Georgia Island in July 1943 and where later issued to the rest of the USMC. By November 1943 and the battle of Tawara the USMC were mainly equipped with the camo uniform, although it was not uncommon to see units wearing a mix of camo and plain green HBTs.
Just prior to the Normandy invasion there was a limited experimental issue of HBT camouflage uniforms to elements of the 2nd and 30th Infantry Divisions, the 17th Engineer Battalion and the 41st Armored Infantry regiment, of the US 2nd Armored Division.

Funny side-note - the ETO camo was withdrawn due to "friendly fire" incidents - aka GI's having been mistaken for SS units.

 

[Zincwarrior]

I believe that is a mosquito net being used as a helmet cover. They were issued to Army troops in the ETO as well as in the Pacific.....It's often called a USMC net but that would be incorrect.

They were even being used in early Vietnam as helmet covers....The thing with them was that they were very thin and tore/faded easily.

They were supposed to be worn under the helmet. The solid cloth portion up against the suspension system.

From what i understand nobody really liked them much....The four long strings are usually cut away when you find one unless it's unissued.

In Europe there was only one test formation in camo. It was disastrous. The Germans made great usage of camo smocks especially later in war and anyone on the Wallied side wearing them was liable to be shot at.
What the US Army did do was shift to puke green for their primary color.

Camo helmets and ponchos were a Pacific thing with the USMC. The helmet cover and smock were reversible, green as above on one side and a more brown pattern on the other, for use on less jungly locations. The Army, which actually made more amphibious invasions (yes indeedy) I am not sure if they went beyond puke green. *


*Its an interesting topic and if I weren't a fat fart I'd be a WWII reenactor.

 

[1srelluc]

In Europe there was only one test formation in camo. It was disastrous. The Germans made great usage of camo smocks especially later in war and anyone on the Wallied side wearing them was liable to be shot at.
What the US Army did do was shift to puke green for their primary color.

Camo helmets and ponchos were a Pacific thing with the USMC. The helmet cover and smock were reversible, green as above on one side and a more brown pattern on the other, for use on less jungly locations. The Army, which actually made more amphibious invasions (yes indeedy) I am not sure if they went beyond puke green. *


*Its an interesting topic and if I weren't a fat fart I'd be a WWII reenactor.

The German mainstay was called a Zeltbahn.....It literally had a 1001 uses.

 

[Zincwarrior]

A cool look at late war UCMS gear. You can see the helmet cover in browns side out.

Another with the greens side out

Here is the pancho

The USMC developed the frogskin pattern uniform as well. However both it and US Army camo patterns appear to have been withdrawn late war.

Cancellation & Reclassification​

As the second‐generation uniforms were being introduced, a more fundamental question arose regarding the effectiveness of the camouflage pattern itself. Field reports indicated that when the camouflage uniform was worn against a dark jungle background men became more visible ‐ an effect that became even more pronounced when men were in motion. This was primarily due to the very light background used for the fabric over which the dappled pattern was printed. Though camouflage uniforms were found to be acceptable for men in static positions, by this time most combat units were involved in offensive operations requiring continual movement through the jungle. Furthermore, testing had revealed that a single shade of dark gray‐green offered the most effective concealment for a combat uniform that was to be worn against a variety of backgrounds. As a result, the General Staff, Army Ground Forces, declared the camouflage pattern material unsuitable for jungle operations. It was determined that the standard issue HBT uniform, converted to the dark green olive‐drab Shade 7 in March 1943, would be preferable for use in jungle environments. Thus, in January 1944 the Army General Staff directed that the camouflage uniform be declared limited standard as soon as all of the camouflage material on hand was expended. During March 1944, the last of the contracts for the Army two‐piece suits had been fulfilled and on 30 March 1944, the General Staff approved a Quartermaster Corps Technical Committee recommendation that shipments of camouflage uniforms into theaters of operations be halted. It is interesting to note that on page 16 of the February 1944 Army Manual, Camouflage of Individuals and Infantry Weapons, a warning is issued against wearing the jungle suit in extremely dark sections of the jungle.


The same fault that the Army pointed out in the camouflage pattern caused the Marine Corps to take concurrent action in restricting the use of their camouflage uniforms. It is worth pointing out that in the Army Quartermaster Historical Study No. 16, Clothing the Soldier of World War II, in the section discussing jungle clothing, it states that USMC officers agreed with the Army's conclusion that the camouflage fabric, based on visibility issues, was unsuitable for jungle operations.3 The book Grunt Gear refers to the existence of an ambitious Marine Corps objective that was in place in late 1943 that sought to procure enough camouflage uniforms so that one suit would be available for each man assigned to a combat unit within the First Marine Amphibious Corps. Though it is noted that this procurement objective was only intended to be temporary, it does demonstrate the strength of the commitment the Marine Corps had to their camouflage uniform program at that time. However, without coincidence or surprise, the Marine Corps ended this procurement program concurrent with the Army ending overseas use of the camouflage uniform. This was accomplished by an April 1944 memo issued by the Commanding General of the Fifth Amphibious Corps in which new directives greatly reduced the number of camouflage suits that would be made available to Marine units going forward. It also identified the standard Marine HBT utility uniform as the primary uniform that would be issued for use in the Pacific Theater of Operations.4 In retrospect, the decision by the military to effectively end the camouflage uniform program in early 1944 seems rather sudden and curious considering it came so shortly after considerable effort was expended producing the much improved second‐generation uniforms.

This is a nice discussion for both Army and Marine.

Photo Essay #2: Early Printed Camouflage Uniforms of the Pacific War (1942-43)

History of US Army and Marine Corps camouflage uniforms of World War 2

www.usww2uniforms.com

 

[Zincwarrior]

The German mainstay was called a Zeltbahn.....It literally had a 1001 uses.

Indeed! It was very effective as well in the West. I imagine less so on the East until they got out of the steppe country.

 

[1srelluc]

A cool look at late war UCMS gear. You can see the helmet cover in browns side out.

Another with the greens side out

Here is the pancho

The USMC developed the frogskin pattern uniform as well. However both it and US Army camo patterns appear to have been withdrawn late war.



This is a nice discussion for both Army and Marine.

Photo Essay #2: Early Printed Camouflage Uniforms of the Pacific War (1942-43)

History of US Army and Marine Corps camouflage uniforms of World War 2

www.usww2uniforms.com

I had one of those USMC ponchos (unissued) a few years back. I did very well on it.

 

[Zincwarrior]

I had one of those USMC ponchos (unissued) a few years back. I did very well on it.

Its kind of a similar concept isn't it. Your pictures show camo panchos and the USMC retained their camo panchos. Plus its baggy to break up hard lines.

Did well - ? Some sort of competition or real life?