US Credibility Crash as world swings to support Russia

[MisterBeale]

Putin has made it necessary to expand NATO

Why?

What did Russia do, that made NATO expansion into Ukraine and Georgia necessary?

Why doesnt Russia make peace on Ukraines terms

I believe, because the west provoked this by the coup in 2014, and supplying nationalist Ukrainian forces, intel agents, Ukrainian elites and politicians, which oppressed the civil rights and civil liberties of ethnic Russian in Eastern Ukraine.

What are the terms of the neo-Nazi, nationalist Ukrainians, and their western partners? Slavery for the eastern ethnic Russian Ukrainians in the Donbas, banning of their language and culture from the public sphere, and confiscation of everything they own?



I wonder how our minority Hispanic population here in the U.S. would react, if the MAGA folks enacted the same sorts of policies towards them. . .



It doesn't sound to me, like you are being very reasonable.

Withdraw all troops to previous borders including Crimea

This would be akin to asking the US to give up it's naval base in Cuba.

Catherine the Great was the one who founded Odessa. The Russians were not even asking for the return of that city.

The only thing they had ever wanted, was to have the majority population of Russians in Crimea, have their language and culture, be treated equal to everyone else in Ukraine, and to keep their naval base, which had been theirs for longer than the US was even a nation.

The nationalists, and ruling elites in Ukraine, would not have that though. . .

The west was pushing the neo-Nazi nationalists to start killing the ethnic Russians in Ukraine, till it hit a boiling point.

Do you actually believe that the folks in Crimea, didn't vote to leave Ukraine, after what happened in Odessa?

How did Odessa's fire happen?

A look at the events in the southern Ukrainian city of Odessa on 2 May, when 46 people were killed in violence between pro-Ukrainian protesters and pro-Russian rivals, most of them in a fire.

www.bbc.com

 

[MisterBeale]

If the ruling elites in Ukraine didn't want to lose that territory, why the hell did they provoke a civil war with the 2014 west engineered coup, and 2019 discriminatory apartheid law, against the minority Russian population in the Donbas?

If a group of Mexicans wants to cut part of California or Texas and make it Mexico where does "Self-determination."come in? Should those areas are no longer part of USA territory? Why didn't we just give Hawaii to Japan?


Your own post shows NATO would not limit who could join..
View attachment 795359

If a group of Mexicans wants to cut part of California or Texas and make it Mexico where does "Self-determination."come in? Should those areas are no longer part of USA territory? Why didn't we just give Hawaii to Japan?

Agreed.

Any part of the planet, that desires self-rule, or sovereignty, IMO, should be able to rule itself, or join any other nation.

I have always believed this. This is outlined in our own Declaration of Independence.

Anything else is colonialism, and imperialism. It is not right to enslave and oppress other people, for their resources, labor and tax income, just so you can live better off of their productivity and the resource wealth of their land. . . I would think basic morality would not have to be explained to you.




That stub, clearly states, "WE COULD NOT THEREFORE OFFER MEMBERSHIP OF NATO TO POLAND AND THE OTHERS."

This clearly means, membership for any other former Warsaw Pact nation, or nation east of the Elbe, is off the table. It then, as you pointed out, goes on to say, "We might however consider referring to our interest in these countries in future declarations."

What then, does this mean? Well, it means, that bilateral, or joint, security arrangements, outside of the NATO context, can be considered.

This is why I referred you to post #32. Final Act of the Conference on Security and Co-operation in Europe “Helsinki Final Act” Helsinki, Finland August 1, 1975


The Russians continually sought this sort of security framework, but were, as I have said, continually rebuffed, because peace, is not as profitable, as preparing for war, dominance, and of course, imperialism.

Having an external foe, to make your domestic population frightened of, is good for politics, and keeping the plebes in line. . . . All the ruling oligarchs know this.

 

[Independentthinker]

With US-Ukey Nazi forces taking a terrible beating in Khazaria , this reports on the decling support for the US proxy war efforts which have gone from bad to awful .

During interview Pulitzer Prize-winner Seymour Hersh stated “more than half” of the world’s population supports Russia. He commented on the growth of this support across the Global South, with Russia becoming increasingly popular among emerging nations. Hersh emphasized how this process has gained strength in Africa and Asia, where there is a strong transition of opinion among people, as citizens who previously had favorable views of the West have recently started to support Moscow.

Hersh claims the US has “lost so much credibility around the world” with its pro-war attitudes, that the current anti-Western wave is quite “dramatic”. He also commented on how the American government has invested billions in the war to the detriment of social programs, strongly destabilizing the internal scenario and affecting its own population – which is extremely condemned around the world, being considered something “outrageous” and contributing to the loss of credibility.

Thanks for letting us know Vlad.

 

[Couchpotato]

Putin was not a threat to his neighbors before
Now he is

You said NATO expansion was necessary because of Putin. Which is not why NATO expansion happened. Don’t try and move the goalposts

 

[LA RAM FAN]

This is more than a partisan issue.

They are plenty of neo-cons and global elites that are in on this as well .. . .

Lindsey Graham & John McCain in Ukraine - Preparing for a proxy war with Russia (2016)​

yes your post was spot on accurate easyt65 EXCEPT for one tiny part,that there are RINOS,neocons like Bush.Romney.Mcconell,Graham in others who are in bed with the dems as well to destroy America.

Dont want to be like political chic who is an embarrassment to trump supporters whom always runs off when you give her facts Obama was just expanding the corruption of her hero Bush. dont want to be biased and non objective like here.

she is as bad as sealybobo smellybozo is on the corruption of the dems when the corruption of the old guard republicans are exposed.she is a total embarrassment to trump supporters.

pc would kill herself first before owning up to the GOP party she worships is as corrupt as the dems as would smellybozo that the dems are as corrupt and one in the same as the RINOS like Bush and Graham.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

With US-Ukey Nazi forces taking a terrible beating in Khazaria , this reports on the decling support for the US proxy war efforts which have gone from bad to awful .

During interview Pulitzer Prize-winner Seymour Hersh stated “more than half” of the world’s population supports Russia. He commented on the growth of this support across the Global South, with Russia becoming increasingly popular among emerging nations. Hersh emphasized how this process has gained strength in Africa and Asia, where there is a strong transition of opinion among people, as citizens who previously had favorable views of the West have recently started to support Moscow.

Hersh claims the US has “lost so much credibility around the world” with its pro-war attitudes, that the current anti-Western wave is quite “dramatic”. He also commented on how the American government has invested billions in the war to the detriment of social programs, strongly destabilizing the internal scenario and affecting its own population – which is extremely condemned around the world, being considered something “outrageous” and contributing to the loss of credibility.

Thank you .we need more open minded objective posters like you who can think outside the box.

the fact two of our resident trolls of USMB,paid shills for the DNC put a fake news icon or laughing smiley there,proves you nailed it and are spot on.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Ukraine isnt getting NATO membership period. Time to settle up and end this.

only a warmongering fool would want NATO membership.

 

[Captain Caveman]

With US-Ukey Nazi forces taking a terrible beating in Khazaria , this reports on the decling support for the US proxy war efforts which have gone from bad to awful .

During interview Pulitzer Prize-winner Seymour Hersh stated “more than half” of the world’s population supports Russia. He commented on the growth of this support across the Global South, with Russia becoming increasingly popular among emerging nations. Hersh emphasized how this process has gained strength in Africa and Asia, where there is a strong transition of opinion among people, as citizens who previously had favorable views of the West have recently started to support Moscow.

Hersh claims the US has “lost so much credibility around the world” with its pro-war attitudes, that the current anti-Western wave is quite “dramatic”. He also commented on how the American government has invested billions in the war to the detriment of social programs, strongly destabilizing the internal scenario and affecting its own population – which is extremely condemned around the world, being considered something “outrageous” and contributing to the loss of credibility.

The world supports Russia??

I sense someone has been on the cannabis oil !!

 

[Rogue AI]

Still irrelevant to the discussion. But I’m happy for you that you imagine you’ve made a point.

Irrelevant only if you take a juvenile approach to international relations. Run along kiddo, clearly you are out of your depth.

 

[José]

Originally posted by MisterBeale
Why?

What did Russia do, that made NATO expansion into Ukraine and Georgia necessary?

Originally posted by Couchpotato
You said NATO expansion was necessary because of Putin. Which is not why NATO expansion happened. Don’t try and move the goalposts

They don't want to face the recent history of eastern Europe, Beale, Couchpotato.

They don't want to admit that Russia dismantled the Iron Curtain, the Soviet Union itself and extended an olive branch to the West only to get hostility, NATO expansionism and Cold War revanchism in return.

In 1991 the West could have chosen to treat Russia as a partner, starting a process to integrate the country with the European Union and NATO. Instead, the US and Europe decided to treat Russia as the loser of the Cold War, excluding the country from the political, economic and military structures of western Europe. They decided to keep Russia as a source of cheap raw materials and subject the country to a military encirclement.

The reality check says:

Russia didn't commit any aggression against its neighbors from 1991 to 2008 (first reaction to NATO expansion).

If they recognize this fact they will be forced to admit that the military enlargement was a completely gratuitous, unprovoked act of hostility towards a country that had just peacefully dismantled an empire.

This is the crucible super patriotic american clowns find themselves in:

They desperately want to believe NATO expansion was a reaction to post-soviet Russia's military aggression against her neighbors so that the West/NATO can't be portrayed as a bully but the REAL RECENT HISTORY OF EASTERN EUROPE stubbornly keeps rubbing on their faces there was no russian aggression after the "great reset" of the end of the Cold War.

So what do they do when they are forced to concede that the narrative they love so much does not correspond to THE REAL HISTORY OF EASTERN EUROPE that happened outside their heads?

Instead of adjusting their narrative to the real history of Europe, they "adjust" the real history of Europe to their narrative.

In other words, they create an imaginary history of eastern Europe, a history that only exist in their heads in order to portray post-soviet Russia as the aggressor.

That's why message boards, despite being good fun, are a big waste of time.

Nobody can ever hope to convince anybody of anything.

How can you ever expect to convince anyone of anything when most people are willing to create an entire parallel universe complete with an alternate history of eastern Europe in order to "validate" their narrative?

 

[MisterBeale]

exit strategy...

terms for peace that would be acceptable to both sides

 

[LA RAM FAN]

The world supports Russia??

I sense someone has been on the cannabis oil !!

errr people around the world who want to be left alone and who are sick of globalism and the elite trying to rule the world supporrt Russia.they all realise the MSM media is a propaganda machine and they are trying to slander Putin with their propaganda he is this generations stalin which is a 180 degrees from the truth.

what the CIA controlled media always leaves out when they talk about Russia launching an attack on Ukraine is the Ukraine government is a bunch of terrorists killing their own citizens and the CIA is aiding them in doing so and Obama and Biden as VP aided them. plus Ukraine violated international agreements trying to acquire Russias land so instead of waiting for them to try and take over Russia,Putin wisely ordered them so to attack Ukraine.

the evil NATO came to their defense.the lamestream media is reporting that NATO is winning and Russian causaultys are severe and are losing when that also could not be any further from the truth,the CIA controlled media in the west is NOT reporting the truth which is NATO is getting their asses kicked.for once,NATO is not getting their way and finally getting a long deserved ass beating finally on the losing side for once and the rest of the world along with patriotic Americans sick of NATO and their desire to control the world,are thrilled over this.

 

[Rogue AI]

China's problems surround their shrinking and aging population not internal or external threats. Their collapse will be a result of the one child policy and the preference for boys during that time.

The disparity is not great enough to topple the nation, nor is it without remedy. Look into what's really going on with the Uyghur.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Agreed, if Ukraine had not given up their nukes, this would not be happening now.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

They don't want to face the recent history of eastern Europe, Beale, Couchpotato.

They don't want to admit that Russia dismantled the Iron Curtain, the Soviet Union itself and extended an olive branch to the West only to get hostility, NATO expansionism and Cold War revanchism in return.

In 1991 the West could have chosen to treat Russia as a partner, starting a process to integrate the country with the European Union and NATO. Instead, the US and Europe decided to treat Russia as the loser of the Cold War, excluding the country from the political, economic and military structures of western Europe. They decided to keep Russia as a source of cheap raw materials and subject the country to a military encirclement.

The reality check says:

Russia didn't commit any aggression against its neighbors from 1991 to 2008 (first reaction to NATO expansion).

If they recognize this fact they will be forced to admit that the military enlargement was a completely gratuitous, unprovoked act of hostility towards a country that had just peacefully dismantled an empire.

This is the crucible super patriotic american clowns find themselves in:

They desperately want to believe NATO expansion was a reaction to post-soviet Russia's military aggression against her neighbors so that the West/NATO can't be portrayed as a bully but the REAL RECENT HISTORY OF EASTERN EUROPE stubbornly keeps rubbing on their faces there was no russian aggression after the "great reset" of the end of the Cold War.

So what do they do when they are forced to concede that the narrative they love so much does not correspond to THE REAL HISTORY OF EASTERN EUROPE that happened outside their heads?

Instead of adjusting their narrative to the real history of Europe, they "adjust" the real history of Europe to their narrative.

In other words, they create an imaginary history of eastern Europe, a history that only exist in their heads in order to portray post-soviet Russia as the aggressor.

That's why message boards, despite being good fun, are a big waste of time.

Nobody can ever hope to convince anybody of anything.

How can you ever expect to convince anyone of anything when most people are willing to create an entire parallel universe complete with an alternate history of eastern Europe in order to "validate" their narrative?

You My friend are one of the few people on these boards capable of crticial thinking thinking outside the box and not going by what the idiot box in the living room tells you.

if these people would do what you have done and turn off the idiot box in the living room instead going to bitchute where the best alternative media is that reports the ACTUAL TRUTH,they would all be aware of this what we both know.

Doesnt surprise me they wont accept this though,half of Americans have been brainwashed by the idiot box and our corrupt school system that Reagan was a president for the people actually believing he was a president for the people like JFK and Trump instead of the warmongering globalist mass murderer he really was.falling for the propaganda by the idiot box in the living room carter was the worst president ever never mind the fact same as JFK,he tried to dismantle the CIA.kept us out of wars unlike all presidents sense then and yet half of Americans aided by the idiot box,call him the worst president ever.

Makes me be embarrassed to be am American.the rest of the world doesnt fall for that propaganda.

Feels like you are alone here in America when you try and wake up the sheep how they have been brainwashed their whole lives on all this.

I notice there is no way to PM you,any chance you could send me a pm with your email?

BEAM ME UP SCOTTY,THERE IS NO INTELLIGENT LIFE FORMS ON THE PLANET.

 

[MisterBeale]

Instead, the US and Europe decided to treat Russia as the loser of the Cold War, excluding the country from the political, economic and military structures of western Europe. They decided to keep Russia as a source of cheap raw materials and subject the country to a military encirclement.

There is a reason for this.

The global oligarchs, have a generational plan, for global world government.

It is based upon creating global conflicts, one, out of the last. Etc. etc. etc. Anyone that studied how the armistice after WWI was handled, and how the treaty of Versailles was administered, would likewise understand how this was brought about.



Just as WWI sowed the seeds for WWII, so too, WWII must, necessarily, play the role for WWIII. And each, in succession, until, at last, we have a one world government.

 

[MisterBeale]

Agreed, if Ukraine had not given up their nukes, this would not be happening now.

And yet? I somehow doubt, most folks are really listening to me?



How many do you supppose, actually listened to this video, mostly because he has told them that they have all been lied to and thourougly propagndized, even though he is one of the foremost experts?

John Mearsheimer Ukraine Salon​

Even though, he was one of the few, that said. . .

Back then;

https://www.mearsheimer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Mearsheimer-Case-for-Ukrainian-Nuclear-Deterrent.pdf

'West foolishly made Ukraine give up nuclear weapons, led it poke Russia with NATO expansion': Top political scientist

American political scientist John Mearsheimer said the West is playing with the fire, referring to Russia, and said that Ukraine is being led down to a path of destruction

www.firstpost.com

'West foolishly made Ukraine give up nuclear weapons, led it poke Russia with NATO expansion': Top political scientist

American political scientist John Mearsheimer said the West is playing with the fire, referring to Russia, and said that Ukraine is being led down to a path of destruction

www.firstpost.com

Hell, the Ukrainians were even worried about it, and Clinton just brushes the question off at the signing of the Budapest Memorandum. . .

Historical background of the conflict in Ukraine

I understood all the ins and outs of this conflict. Historically, in the northern Black Sea region, on the territory of Ukraine, there lived Poles, descendants of the Sarmatians and Turks (true ethnic Turks, Torks), the population of the Hetmanate. Bandera justify their claims to the whole of...

www.usmessageboard.com

if you go back and watch the press conference with U.S. President Clinton, and Ukraine President Leonid Kravchuk upon completion of these negotiations, you see how President Clinton dodges the question about any guarantee of providing security against any future Russian imperial designs on Crimea.

Time stamp: 22:30 for the question if you do not want to listen to the whole conference.

(I've marked it.)

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Agreed.

IMO? I don't think any of the oligarchs, in any of the nations, can be trusted.

I don't care for any of them. The ruling classes in every nation, don't give a shit about any of their people, and they are all only looking out for number one. Duh.

That is what the point of the thread it about, "credibility crash." None of them are credible anymore, they are all even using their own research and polling outfits, to "prove," it at this point.

International Attitudes Toward the U.S., NATO and Russia in a Time of Crisis

Most say U.S. is reliable partner, and ratings for Biden are mostly positive – although down significantly from last year.

www.pewresearch.org

International Attitudes Toward the U.S., NATO and Russia in a Time of Crisis​

Most say U.S. is reliable partner, and ratings for Biden are mostly positive – although down significantly from last year​

View attachment 795429

US seen as bigger threat to democracy than Russia or China, global poll finds

Belief in importance of democracy high in 53 sampled countries but inequality and big tech companies seen as biggest threats

www.theguardian.com

US is seen as a bigger threat to democracy around the world than Russia or China, new poll finds​

US is seen as a bigger threat to democracy around the world than Russia or China, new poll finds

Four years of Donald Trump dings the United States’ reputation

news.yahoo.com

I don't think any of the oligarchs, in any of the nations, can be trusted.

Don't trust them. Putin still needs to fuck off.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Dummy. Russia was still a country and that’s who we made our agreement with. Acting like that’s not what happened doesn’t change it. The USSR was Russia and a bunch of satellite countries. Those countries kept their “sovereignty”. It was t one big country, even if it acted in large part like one.

Russia was still a country and that’s who we made our agreement with.

Nobody signed that agreement with Russia.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The US for one. Our current invalid invalid administration drove up the global price of oil and that has helped finance the Russian military.

Biden's stupidity doesn't mean the US supports Russia.