United States Has The Best Healthcare in the World

[PoliticalChic]

Lordy, lordy, what fools you people are! Do you actually think that the Cato Institute has any credibility with anybody other than the most braindead of Conservatives?

The Japanese, Germans, French, and even Costa Ricans have a much better average life span than we do here in the US. All have far lower infant mortality. All spend far less on their health care system, and cover all citizens, which we do not.

So we are paying a Cadillac price and getting a Yugo. And you people are perfectly happy with that.

And then there is the matter of hundreds of thousands of American families going bankrupt every year because of medical bills. And none doing so in the rest of the industrial nations. Not in even little Costa Rica, most definately not an industrial nation.

Silly stuff. First, no one doubts the quality of health care delivered in the US is as good or better than that available anywhere else in the world. Second, there are no studies that link the kind of health insurance system a country has to its mortality statistics - you may want to believe there is but you have no reason to think so - but there is abundant research that links other factors, such as mortality and smoking, to mortality. As it happens, we in the US are the most obese among the wealthy nations and until a few years ago, we were the heaviest smokers, so naturally we would suspect our average life span might be lower than that of other wealthy nations.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/22/science/22tier.html

Furthermore, studies here in the US have had mixed results, some showing little connection between life expectancy and insurance status and others showing no connection.



The Effects of Lack of Being Uninsured on Mortality and Morbidity

Other studies have shown other interesting results. For example,



Suggesting that in at least some areas they US health care system is superior to the Canadian system if you have insurance and at least as good as the Canadian system if you are uninsured.

John Ayanian, et al. find that uninsured women as well as women with Medicaid had more advanced breast cancer than women with private
insurance when the condition was initially diagnosed. They also find that the survival outcomes of both the Medicaid and uninsured
women were worse than those of privately insured women. The authors note that higher socioeconomic status is a possible explanation for
the better survival of privately insured women.

In fact, educational levels and socioeconomic class are more closely associated with mortality rates in the US than insurance status. For example, in a group followed from 1992 through 2006, those who were involuntarily uninsured, presumably low income but not poor enough for Medicaid, had better survival rates than those on Medicaid when surveyed every two years from 1998 to 2006; those who were voluntarily uninsured, presumably with higher incomes that the involuntarily uninsured and those on Medicaid, had much better survival rates than either of these groups and only slightly worse than those with private insurance. (From table 11 from the link below)

http://www.epionline.org/studies/oneill_06-2009.pdf

When you put the facts from these studies together, a few things become clear that might not otherwise have been apparent. First, affordable health care is available to the vast majority of the uninsured. Second, educational levels, socioeconomic class and lifestyle factors such as obesity and smoking are strong determinants of mortality and insurance status has little on no effect on mortality.

If affordable health care is available for the vast majority of the uninsured, then who are the millions of people that have had to file for bankruptcy due to medical costs?

And why do those without insurance have a higher death rate than those with it?

Are only the people without insurance the obese and smokers?

Let me fill in some of the lacuna in your understanding on this subject:
. Free-Market Innovations
• a) Walgreens has retail health clinics staffed by board-certified Family Nurse Practitioners and Physicians Assistants, and expects to have 400 open by 2010, and CVS plans on about 500. Anyone can walk in and get treatment for about 1/6 the cost of an emergency room, plus about 2/3 are paid for by insurance. Treatment includes: Respiratory Illnesses
• Additional Treatments
• Skin Conditions
• Minor Injuries
• Diagnostic Testing
• Wellness
• Vaccinations
• About Us - Take Care Clinic - Convenient, Affordable Health Care

b) Wal-Mart offers some 400 different prescription drugs @ $10 for a 90 day supply. CVS, Target, Kroegers, Food Lion, and a number of others have similar plans.

c) eHealthinsurance.com allows you to find health insurance in your zip.

d) Healthcarebluebook.com tells the costs of various procedures and treatments, allowing the consumer to negotiate prices with practitioners.

e) Teledoc gets you on the phone with a licensed physician in 3 hours or less, for $35- or it’s free!

f) American Well will let you talk to a doctor by webcam, text, phone, or IM for $45. And some Wal-Marts have virtual clinics where they can actually look into eyes, ears, and throat by webcam. American Well - FAQs

g) For an annual fee of just $480 for singles ($580 for couples and $680 for families) The No Insurance Club offers affordable pre-paid health care plans that cover basic medical services from a participating board-certified physician, with no deductibles, no additional premiums, and no co-payments and either 12 or 16 visits per year. NoInsuranceClub

h) Cosmetic surgery is the closest thing we have to a true free-market system in American. No insurance coverage, and the consumer shops around among practitioners: the price has been falling over time in real terms — despite a huge increase in volume and considerable technical innovation (which is blamed for increas- ing costs for every other type of surgery).


Solving what ever weaknesses there are in this wonderful healthcare systmem should be far less onerous than destroying what works.

 

[Bfgrn]

This is not to imply that only the rich in America can get the ‘expensive’ treatment, since there are many options such as a)getting a loan, b) asking a family member or a charity for help, c) find a doctor, hospital, or drug company willing to work at a reduced rate. All are common.

And because we have rich people who pay a great deal for the best healthcare, enabling research and development, the end result is that this brings costs down and makes treatment affordable for everyone, even in socialist countries.

Darn it all...I just sat down to plan our vacation this year...you remind me that I have to plan my families diseases and catastrophic illnesses, and of course, visit my bank...

Loan officer: Can I help you?

Yes, I have cancer and need to borrow $50,000 for chemotherapy and aggressive drug treatments... and BTW, the wife said she "feels" a stroke coming on so double it...

Loan officer: No problem...would you like that in large bills?

I guess those 45,000 Americans that died last year because they didn't have health insurance were just LAZY...too f_cking lazy to want to LIVE!

 

[PoliticalChic]

This is not to imply that only the rich in America can get the ‘expensive’ treatment, since there are many options such as a)getting a loan, b) asking a family member or a charity for help, c) find a doctor, hospital, or drug company willing to work at a reduced rate. All are common.

And because we have rich people who pay a great deal for the best healthcare, enabling research and development, the end result is that this brings costs down and makes treatment affordable for everyone, even in socialist countries.

Darn it all...I just sat down to plan our vacation this year...you remind me that I have to plan my families diseases and catastrophic illnesses, and of course, visit my bank...

Loan officer: Can I help you?

Yes, I have cancer and need to borrow $50,000 for chemotherapy and aggressive drug treatments... and BTW, the wife said she "feels" a stroke coming on so double it...

Loan officer: No problem...would you like that in large bills?

I guess those 45,000 Americans that died last year because they didn't have health insurance were just LAZY...too f_cking lazy to want to LIVE!

Reading your post has caused me to change my mind about this ObamaCare!

I realized the savings promised in healthcare can actually be accomplished, especially in the area of savings on medical procedues if the new treatment for insomnia is sending your posts to those suffering from same.

I see the makings of another Nobel Prize Winner!

 

[Bfgrn]

This is not to imply that only the rich in America can get the ‘expensive’ treatment, since there are many options such as a)getting a loan, b) asking a family member or a charity for help, c) find a doctor, hospital, or drug company willing to work at a reduced rate. All are common.

And because we have rich people who pay a great deal for the best healthcare, enabling research and development, the end result is that this brings costs down and makes treatment affordable for everyone, even in socialist countries.

Darn it all...I just sat down to plan our vacation this year...you remind me that I have to plan my families diseases and catastrophic illnesses, and of course, visit my bank...

Loan officer: Can I help you?

Yes, I have cancer and need to borrow $50,000 for chemotherapy and aggressive drug treatments... and BTW, the wife said she "feels" a stroke coming on so double it...

Loan officer: No problem...would you like that in large bills?

I guess those 45,000 Americans that died last year because they didn't have health insurance were just LAZY...too f_cking lazy to want to LIVE!

Reading your post has caused me to change my mind about this ObamaCare!

I realized the savings promised in healthcare can actually be accomplised, especially in the area of savings on medical procedues if the new treatment for insomnia is sending your posts to those suffering from same.

I see the makings of another Nobel Prize Winner!

I simply reduced your attempt at obfuscation through voluminous blather to the essential points that expose what a pea brain you really are...

Anyone with a brain larger than a pea is aware that the status quo is not a viable option.

But don't let common sense or logic stop your right wing rant...

BTW, when do you plan to roll out the Betsy McCaughey disinformation again, so I can expose your malevolent barbarism?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Darn it all...I just sat down to plan our vacation this year...you remind me that I have to plan my families diseases and catastrophic illnesses, and of course, visit my bank...

Loan officer: Can I help you?

Yes, I have cancer and need to borrow $50,000 for chemotherapy and aggressive drug treatments... and BTW, the wife said she "feels" a stroke coming on so double it...

Loan officer: No problem...would you like that in large bills?

I guess those 45,000 Americans that died last year because they didn't have health insurance were just LAZY...too f_cking lazy to want to LIVE!

Reading your post has caused me to change my mind about this ObamaCare!

I realized the savings promised in healthcare can actually be accomplised, especially in the area of savings on medical procedues if the new treatment for insomnia is sending your posts to those suffering from same.

I see the makings of another Nobel Prize Winner!

I simply reduced your attempt at obfuscation through voluminous blather to the essential points that expose what a pea brain you really are...

Anyone with a brain larger than a pea is aware that the status quo is not a viable option.

But don't let common sense or logic stop your right wing rant...

BTW, when do you plan to roll out the Betsy McCaughey disinformation again, so I can expose your malevolent barbarism?

Every point I make is documented and linked, aspects which you are unable to imitate.

I hope you take this personally:

I am hoping to debate with knowledgeable folks on the oppostite side, not unbefriended troglodytes who hope to fill their empty lives by posting at every opportunity, with the aspiration of some, any, human contact.

Have a day.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Lordy, lordy, what fools you people are! Do you actually think that the Cato Institute has any credibility with anybody other than the most braindead of Conservatives?

The Japanese, Germans, French, and even Costa Ricans have a much better average life span than we do here in the US. All have far lower infant mortality. All spend far less on their health care system, and cover all citizens, which we do not.

So we are paying a Cadillac price and getting a Yugo. And you people are perfectly happy with that.

And then there is the matter of hundreds of thousands of American families going bankrupt every year because of medical bills. And none doing so in the rest of the industrial nations. Not in even little Costa Rica, most definately not an industrial nation.

Silly stuff. First, no one doubts the quality of health care delivered in the US is as good or better than that available anywhere else in the world. Second, there are no studies that link the kind of health insurance system a country has to its mortality statistics - you may want to believe there is but you have no reason to think so - but there is abundant research that links other factors, such as mortality and smoking, to mortality. As it happens, we in the US are the most obese among the wealthy nations and until a few years ago, we were the heaviest smokers, so naturally we would suspect our average life span might be lower than that of other wealthy nations.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/22/science/22tier.html

Furthermore, studies here in the US have had mixed results, some showing little connection between life expectancy and insurance status and others showing no connection.



The Effects of Lack of Being Uninsured on Mortality and Morbidity

Other studies have shown other interesting results. For example,



Suggesting that in at least some areas they US health care system is superior to the Canadian system if you have insurance and at least as good as the Canadian system if you are uninsured.

John Ayanian, et al. find that uninsured women as well as women with Medicaid had more advanced breast cancer than women with private
insurance when the condition was initially diagnosed. They also find that the survival outcomes of both the Medicaid and uninsured
women were worse than those of privately insured women. The authors note that higher socioeconomic status is a possible explanation for
the better survival of privately insured women.

In fact, educational levels and socioeconomic class are more closely associated with mortality rates in the US than insurance status. For example, in a group followed from 1992 through 2006, those who were involuntarily uninsured, presumably low income but not poor enough for Medicaid, had better survival rates than those on Medicaid when surveyed every two years from 1998 to 2006; those who were voluntarily uninsured, presumably with higher incomes that the involuntarily uninsured and those on Medicaid, had much better survival rates than either of these groups and only slightly worse than those with private insurance. (From table 11 from the link below)

http://www.epionline.org/studies/oneill_06-2009.pdf

When you put the facts from these studies together, a few things become clear that might not otherwise have been apparent. First, affordable health care is available to the vast majority of the uninsured. Second, educational levels, socioeconomic class and lifestyle factors such as obesity and smoking are strong determinants of mortality and insurance status has little on no effect on mortality.

If affordable health care is available for the vast majority of the uninsured, then who are the millions of people that have had to file for bankruptcy due to medical costs?

And why do those without insurance have a higher death rate than those with it?

Are only the people without insurance the obese and smokers?

You already know that affordable comprehensive health care is available to all Americans for nearly all their health care needs at federally funded health clinics that are everywhere in the US.

HRSA - Find a Health Center - Search Page

In addition, there are large numbers of privately funded free and sliding scale clinics that provide pretty much the same services. And if you don't like rubbing elbows with the poor - most of these clinics are in or near poor neighborhoods - with a little effort you can find physicians and laboratories in private practice who will agree to charge you reasonable out of pocket fees if you pay cash. Of course, if you are uninsured and develop an illness that entails catastrophic expenses, you may have to spend your way into poverty before qualifying for Medicaid or other programs, but this could have been avoided by purchasing low cost high deductible catastrophic health insurance which nearly everyone can afford.

If you read the studies about what are often called medical bankruptcies instead of just reading articles about them (I will link to the study that has been the source of much of the confusion on the subject below.) you will see that people who lose their incomes because of illness are included as medical bankruptcies as well as those who run up large medical bills without losing their incomes, and people who have spent as little as $1,000 over the last two years on medical expenses not covered by their insurance and subsequently went bankrupt were included as medical bankruptcies and people who listed on bankruptcy papers they filed with the courts that medical bill were a contributing factor, but not necessary the primary cause, of the bankruptcy were included as medical bankruptcies.

For this analysis, we replicated
the most conservative definition
employed in the 2001
study, which designated as “medically
bankrupt” debtors citing illness
or medical bills as a specific
reason for bankruptcy; OR reporting
uncovered medical bills
$1000 in the past 2 years; OR
who lost at least 2 weeks of work-related income due to
illness/injury; OR who mortgaged a home to pay medical
bills. Debtors who gave no answers regarding reasons for
their bankruptcy were excluded from analyses.

The study shows that only a small number of people who kept their source of income were forced into bankruptcy by the large size of their medical bills, not the epidemic sized numbers some would have us believe, and in all but a small number of cases the amount of debt due to medical bills accounted for only a small proportion of the total debt that forced them into bankruptcy.

http://www.pnhp.org/new_bankruptcy_study/Bankruptcy-2009.pdf

Studies that attempt to control for variables such as income and education, such as the studies I cited, conclude that insurance status has little or no effect on mortality rates. Cruder studies that do not attempt to control for these variables may find that the uninsured have higher mortality rates than the insured, but if the study does not try to control for the effect of variables such as education, income and insurance status, it cannot validly conclude which of these is most responsible for the results.

 

[Bfgrn]

Reading your post has caused me to change my mind about this ObamaCare!

I realized the savings promised in healthcare can actually be accomplised, especially in the area of savings on medical procedues if the new treatment for insomnia is sending your posts to those suffering from same.

I see the makings of another Nobel Prize Winner!

I simply reduced your attempt at obfuscation through voluminous blather to the essential points that expose what a pea brain you really are...

Anyone with a brain larger than a pea is aware that the status quo is not a viable option.

But don't let common sense or logic stop your right wing rant...

BTW, when do you plan to roll out the Betsy McCaughey disinformation again, so I can expose your malevolent barbarism?

Every point I make is documented and linked, aspects which you are unable to imitate.

I hope you take this personally:

I am hoping to debate with knowledgeable folks on the oppostite side, not unbefriended troglodytes who hope to fill their empty lives by posting at every opportunity, with the aspiration of some, any, human contact.

Have a day.

Seems this projection you engage in is getting too obvious...

I exposed your unscrupulous lies about Dr. Emanuel and you cut & run...I don't need to check your "points" to know your contemptible intent and your lack of any character or upbringing...the truth is unimportant to you...but what makes you truly repulsive as a person is that human beings are even less important to you...

You sicken me...

 

[Oddball]

I simply reduced your attempt at obfuscation through voluminous blather to the essential points that expose what a pea brain you really are...

Anyone with a brain larger than a pea is aware that the status quo is not a viable option.

But don't let common sense or logic stop your right wing rant...

BTW, when do you plan to roll out the Betsy McCaughey disinformation again, so I can expose your malevolent barbarism?

Anyone with a brain larger than a neutron (which excludes you) is aware that nobody is claiming that the status quo is acceptable, and that drippy platitudinous cliches aren't any more of a viable option.

 

[KittenKoder]

I simply reduced your attempt at obfuscation through voluminous blather to the essential points that expose what a pea brain you really are...

Anyone with a brain larger than a pea is aware that the status quo is not a viable option.

But don't let common sense or logic stop your right wing rant...

BTW, when do you plan to roll out the Betsy McCaughey disinformation again, so I can expose your malevolent barbarism?

Every point I make is documented and linked, aspects which you are unable to imitate.

I hope you take this personally:

I am hoping to debate with knowledgeable folks on the oppostite side, not unbefriended troglodytes who hope to fill their empty lives by posting at every opportunity, with the aspiration of some, any, human contact.

Have a day.

Seems this projection you engage in is getting too obvious...

I exposed your unscrupulous lies about Dr. Emanuel and you cut & run...I don't need to check your "points" to know your contemptible intent and your lack of any character or upbringing...the truth is unimportant to you...but what makes you truly repulsive as a person is that human beings are even less important to you...

You sicken me...

PC doesn't "project" ... she posts valid points quite often. Ask yourself this: Would you rather trust the people who make money off you living longer (insurance companies) or the people who profit when you breed but get paid more when you die (politicians)?

 

[PoliticalChic]

I simply reduced your attempt at obfuscation through voluminous blather to the essential points that expose what a pea brain you really are...

Anyone with a brain larger than a pea is aware that the status quo is not a viable option.

But don't let common sense or logic stop your right wing rant...

BTW, when do you plan to roll out the Betsy McCaughey disinformation again, so I can expose your malevolent barbarism?

Every point I make is documented and linked, aspects which you are unable to imitate.

I hope you take this personally:

I am hoping to debate with knowledgeable folks on the oppostite side, not unbefriended troglodytes who hope to fill their empty lives by posting at every opportunity, with the aspiration of some, any, human contact.

Have a day.

Seems this projection you engage in is getting too obvious...

I exposed your unscrupulous lies about Dr. Emanuel and you cut & run...I don't need to check your "points" to know your contemptible intent and your lack of any character or upbringing...the truth is unimportant to you...but what makes you truly repulsive as a person is that human beings are even less important to you...

You sicken me...

This must be your motto: "...I don't need to check your "points" ..."

Not very intelligent, but a real time saver!


Tell me, am I at least one of the first one hundred USMB posters to point out how appropriate the crack in the bell in your avatar is for you?

 

[Bfgrn]

I simply reduced your attempt at obfuscation through voluminous blather to the essential points that expose what a pea brain you really are...

Anyone with a brain larger than a pea is aware that the status quo is not a viable option.

But don't let common sense or logic stop your right wing rant...

BTW, when do you plan to roll out the Betsy McCaughey disinformation again, so I can expose your malevolent barbarism?

Anyone with a brain larger than a neutron (which excludes you) is aware that nobody is claiming that the status quo is acceptable, and that drippy platitudinous cliches aren't any more of a viable option.

REALLY...PC has been a cheerleader for the status quo with every thread... maybe if you weren't as obtuse and inert you would have noticed...


"drippy platitudinous cliches" would be a giant leap forward from your peanut gallery cowardice...

 

[Bfgrn]

Every point I make is documented and linked, aspects which you are unable to imitate.

I hope you take this personally:

I am hoping to debate with knowledgeable folks on the oppostite side, not unbefriended troglodytes who hope to fill their empty lives by posting at every opportunity, with the aspiration of some, any, human contact.

Have a day.

Seems this projection you engage in is getting too obvious...

I exposed your unscrupulous lies about Dr. Emanuel and you cut & run...I don't need to check your "points" to know your contemptible intent and your lack of any character or upbringing...the truth is unimportant to you...but what makes you truly repulsive as a person is that human beings are even less important to you...

You sicken me...

This must be your motto: "...I don't need to check your "points" ..."

Not very intelligent, but a real time saver!


Tell me, am I at least one of the first one hundred USMB posters to point out how appropriate the crack in the bell in your avatar is for you?

I DID check your points on previous threads and guess what...when I exposed your blatant and deliberate lies...I never heard from you...

I reduced your starter thread to its basic fallacies... intelligent people use inductive reasoning...

My bell may have a crack...but you quack...

“If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands.”
Douglas Adams

 

[Gatekeeper]

After reading some of the posts on this issue I can see some have a good idea of what is going to happen NOW with this boondoggle health care BILL. Those who passed it don't even have a clue of all that is in it or what the end cost will be.

I can say this, as much as I would hope it would function like a Swiss watch, it will NOT. I know some doctors that have left, retired earlier than they had planned on. And others that are in the process of making the decision to stay or leave. The massive amount of paperwork required now will be increased beyond reasonable proportions along with increases in threats, fines, laws with their mandatory guidelines issued by our most 'esteemed' government educated buttheads.

We are going to lose many talented physicians and specialists I can't even begin to mention.
One Interventional radiologist I know has hung it up and moving to Santa Fe NM along with a few of his collegues, surgeons etc. It's just the tip of the iceberg that will shake the health care available today in America to it's collective knees. If this exit of long time qualified doctors increases, we'll be looking at the system taking just about anyone from medical schools from just about anywhere, from the minimumly qualified or............?

Cost wise, there will be an intolerable increase for those already paying through the nose making it very difficult for most to continue receiving their present coverage. Mandatory government rationing of health care is almost a certainty regardless of what some in Washington D.C. are saying.

Many think $700-800/month now is high for say, two people, with middle of the road far from premium coverage, along with co-pays both hospital and prescriptions adding another $2-3000/ year for meds, stand by, $700-800 will be a bargain in a few years.

There are pages and pages I could blog on about this, so I must stop now and wait for others to comment. I just can't believe we have 'leadership' such as this in the United States of America today. They in D.C. for the most part are floundering around like netted fishes on the deck of a trawler, what a disgrace.

 

[Oddball]

I simply reduced your attempt at obfuscation through voluminous blather to the essential points that expose what a pea brain you really are...

Anyone with a brain larger than a pea is aware that the status quo is not a viable option.

But don't let common sense or logic stop your right wing rant...

BTW, when do you plan to roll out the Betsy McCaughey disinformation again, so I can expose your malevolent barbarism?

Anyone with a brain larger than a neutron (which excludes you) is aware that nobody is claiming that the status quo is acceptable, and that drippy platitudinous cliches aren't any more of a viable option.

REALLY...PC has been a cheerleader for the status quo with every thread... maybe if you weren't as obtuse and inert you would have noticed...


"drippy platitudinous cliches" would be a giant leap forward from your peanut gallery cowardice...

You're starting to make Ravi look like a MENSA candidate, Jethro.

Just because someone is against your ridiculous fascistic "solutions" to this or that social ill doesn't make them a proponent of the status quo, by any stretch.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Anyone with a brain larger than a pea is aware that the status quo is not a viable option.

I would like to comment on that...

There must be a reason why some 80-90% of those with insurance are satisfied with it.

And I have tried to document why an honest appraisal places American healthcare at the top of any in the world.
No one has yet been able to show that the stats I have provided are inadequate to indicate same.

If there are ways to improve the US system, such as allowing competition across state lines- which would allow 1300 providers to compete, or tort reform, which would obviate some 9% of the healthcare dollars spent last year, one should question why the Democrat plan encompasses neither.

Since the actual chronically uninsured
"The group that is chronically uninsured, and does not include illegal aliens, those making over $75,000, are not currently eligible for government programs, is in the area of 3% of the population."
http://www.coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf

is on the order of 3%, would issuing debit cards:
"Food debit cards help 27 million people buy food, similar to the number who need help buying health coverage. In all fifty states, debit card technology has transformed the federal food stamp program, which used to be notorious for fraud and abuse. (Only 2 percent of card users are found to be ineligible, according to the General Accounting Office.) Cards are loaded with a specific dollar amount monthly, depending on family size and income, and allow cardholders to shop anywhere. The same strategy could be adapted to provide purchasing power to families who need help buying high-deductible health coverage. It's what all Americans used to buy (see chart 5), and it's all that's needed for families with moderate incomes, who can afford a routine doctor visit. "
Downgrading Health Care


And one more:
Every state lists mandates that insurers must cover. NJ mandates coverage for in vitro fertilization, which adds 2.5% to the cost of NJ insurance plans. Consumers should be able to select what they wish to be covered for, as is done in auto insurance.

None of these improvements require further government control, rather they mean less.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Seems this projection you engage in is getting too obvious...

I exposed your unscrupulous lies about Dr. Emanuel and you cut & run...I don't need to check your "points" to know your contemptible intent and your lack of any character or upbringing...the truth is unimportant to you...but what makes you truly repulsive as a person is that human beings are even less important to you...

You sicken me...

This must be your motto: "...I don't need to check your "points" ..."

Not very intelligent, but a real time saver!


Tell me, am I at least one of the first one hundred USMB posters to point out how appropriate the crack in the bell in your avatar is for you?

I DID check your points on previous threads and guess what...when I exposed your blatant and deliberate lies...I never heard from you...

I reduced your starter thread to its basic fallacies... intelligent people use inductive reasoning...

My bell may have a crack...but you quack...

“If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands.”
Douglas Adams

Oh, no!

The Wicked Witch of the West sent you out AGAIN??

 

[Bfgrn]

Anyone with a brain larger than a neutron (which excludes you) is aware that nobody is claiming that the status quo is acceptable, and that drippy platitudinous cliches aren't any more of a viable option.

REALLY...PC has been a cheerleader for the status quo with every thread... maybe if you weren't as obtuse and inert you would have noticed...


"drippy platitudinous cliches" would be a giant leap forward from your peanut gallery cowardice...

You're starting to make Ravi look like a MENSA candidate, Jethro.

Just because someone is against your ridiculous fascistic "solutions" to this or that social ill doesn't make them a proponent of the status quo, by any stretch.

Looks like we finally got to Godwin's law!

"The legitimate object of Government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done but cannot do at all, or cannot so well do, for themselves in their separate and individual capacities. But in all that people can individually do as well for themselves, Government ought not to interfere."
President Abraham Lincoln

 

[Oddball]

Not all fascists are Nazis, nincompoop.

 

[Bfgrn]

Not all fascists are Nazis, nincompoop.

Fascism, is a political ideology that seeks to combine radical and authoritarian nationalism with a corporatist economic system...

A perfect description of the current FOR profit corporate deathcare...and the right's mantra.

 

[Oddball]

Yup...It's official...You're boring the hell out of me again.