# Ultimate energy source

Discussion in 'Energy' started by watchingfromafar, Aug 3, 2019.

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### eagle1462010Platinum Member

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Which requires more energy to pump the air down there............You gain nothing.

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### watchingfromafarSilver Member

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My revised version; I will be back to discuss

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### ToddsterpatriotDiamond Member

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Sea water in square feet?

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### watchingfromafarSilver Member

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This is a means to calculate water volume. Ok, I get it, I should have said cubic feet

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### JoeMomaGold Member

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1. At sea level, the ambient air pressure is 1 atmosphere. So at 33 feet deep, the balloon will be at 2 Atmosphere's pressure. At 66 feet deep it will be 3 Atmosphere's pressure and so on.
2. Your force numbers are not really foot lbs, they are simply lbs. If a 5 lb object is lifted up 20 feet, then 100 foot-lbs of work was done. Work (energy) is force x distance.You don't simply calculate the weight of the displaced water (in lbs) and then call it Ft-lbs.
3. There is a buoyant force approximately equal to the displaced water pushing the balloons up, but you need to subtract off the drag force (friction) of the balloons moving through the water. If you have ever tried to walk chest deep in water in a swimming pool, then you have experienced the drag force of water; it can be very strong. The calculations of the drag force on the balloons are probably more than anyone on this forum would want to tackle.
4. I'm not sure why I keep responding to this thread since everyone has already told you that you device cannot create energy. Perhaps It's because I do find some of the math/physics that you are looking at entertaining and it give me a chance to shake off some of the cob webs of what I learned in college 30 years ago.

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### watchingfromafarSilver Member

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I'm not talking to every one, I'm talking to you. Everything you said about ATM's is the same in my diagram. This you cannot deny.
[1] The lifting force of an air bubble (balloon) is equal to the water being displaced.; call this energy [X] This you cannot deny.
[2] In water, an air bubble expands as it rises. This you cannot deny.
[3]
The lifting force of multiple balloons in a vertical row, all attached to each other has a lifting force equal to the combined lifting force of all the balloons; call this energy (F)
[4] Energy [X]+[X]+[X]+[X]+[X] = [F]
[5] [F] five (5) times greater than [X] at any one moment in time. This you cannot deny
[6] To maintain this process all you have to add, at any one moment in time is [X] energy to get an output of [F]
This you cannot deny

Last edited: Oct 4, 2019
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### JoeMomaGold Member

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Your under water calculations for pressure are off by one ATM because you don't add the one ATM ambient pressure of air at sea level. However, this is a moot point considering the rest of the flaws.

I do deny that the lifting force is called energy. This is a major flaw in your understanding of why your device cannot create energy.

I agree.

Calling "force", "energy" is a major flaw in your analysis.

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

It takes X amount of energy to compress a given volume of air at sea level and move it 594 feet under water. While that mass of compressed air remains 594 feet under water, it has what we call potential energy because the potential energy can be released as the air moves back to the water's surface. That energy from that under water air will not be completely released until it has once again reached the water's surface and has fully expanded. So for each X amount of energy you put into the system, you only get X out. The fact that you have 5 balloons traveling up to the water's surface does not multiply the energy because you put X amount of energy into each balloon and you get X amount of energy out as it goes all the way to the top of the water.

By calling force at a given moment, energy, you are over counting the amount of energy in the system. Force at a given moment isn't energy.

Also note that a great deal of the X amount of energy for each balloon will be used up by the friction of the balloons moving through the water.

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### watchingfromafarSilver Member

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The only friction here is coming from you.
You are using semantics to dodge the basic principle of the machine. You state that energy is not force and that five rising balloons does not add more lifting force than one balloon. I will repeat the obvious and then you prone that five rising balloons is the same as one rising balloon.

I'm not talking to everyone, I'm talking to you. Everything you said about ATM's is the same in my diagram. This you cannot deny.

[1] The lifting force of an air bubble (balloon) is equal to the water being displaced.; call this energy [X] This you cannot deny.

[2] In water, an air bubble expands as it rises. This you cannot deny.

[3] The lifting force of multiple balloons in a vertical row, all attached to each other has a lifting force equal to the combined lifting force of all the balloons; call this energy (F)

[4] Energy [X]+[X]+[X]+[X]+[X] = [F]

[5] [F] five (5) times greater than [X] at any one moment in time. This you cannot deny

[6] To maintain this process all you have to add, at any one moment in time is [X] energy to get an output of [F]

You need to do a little bit better than just stating it will not work.It works, the real question is whether the machine produces more energy than is needed to run it.

The basic principle is simple enough. The machine is using the pressure of water and the rising force of air underwater.
-

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### ToddsterpatriotDiamond Member

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[5] [F] five (5) times greater than [X] at any one moment in time. This you cannot deny

Allow me......doesn't matter how many times you lose useful energy by pumping air down to the bottom of your machine, the amount you get out is much less than the amount you put in.

Whether you multiply [X] by 5 or 500 or 5,000,000...….

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### ThunkGold Member

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Harnessing the power of air rising under water.

That force is powerful enough to raise sunken ships, subs, and planes!

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