Ultimate energy source

[watchingfromafar]

Tell me why there are several definitions of electricity.

There is the “amp”, “volt”, “current” and “watts”. These terms are describing different aspects of electricity which all are just a way to measure the effects of the electron. The electron in turn moves through space because of the pull and push of magnetism.

Does this have anything to do with my machine; well; no, not directly.

Now back to the problem at hand, to be repeated for the umtenth time; how simple can simpalton be-?

What’s at hand here is the power of “force” at any one moment in time.

If you are getting more energy output than is required to keep the system running then you are traveling down a downhill road coasting all the way; for the moment, this is a perpetual motion machine.

-

 

[BULLDOG]

Tell me why there are several definitions of electricity.

There is the “amp”, “volt”, “current” and “watts”. These terms are describing different aspects of electricity which all are just a way to measure the effects of the electron. The electron in turn moves through space because of the pull and push of magnetism.

Does this have anything to do with my machine; well; no, not directly.

Now back to the problem at hand, to be repeated for the umtenth time; how simple can simpalton be-?

What’s at hand here is the power of “force” at any one moment in time.

If you are getting more energy output than is required to keep the system running then you are traveling down a downhill road coasting all the way; for the moment, this is a perpetual motion machine.

-

Doesn't quite work like that. The buckets in your machine work in a cycle. It depends on the constant up and down movement to produce work. Some parts of the cycle do produce more output than others, but the complete cycle is a net user of energy instead of a net producer of energy.

 

[BULLDOG]

Tell me why there are several definitions of electricity.

There is the “amp”, “volt”, “current” and “watts”. These terms are describing different aspects of electricity which all are just a way to measure the effects of the electron. The electron in turn moves through space because of the pull and push of magnetism.

Does this have anything to do with my machine; well; no, not directly.

Now back to the problem at hand, to be repeated for the umtenth time; how simple can simpalton be-?

What’s at hand here is the power of “force” at any one moment in time.

If you are getting more energy output than is required to keep the system running then you are traveling down a downhill road coasting all the way; for the moment, this is a perpetual motion machine.

-

If your machine were a true net energy producer, you would be too busy cashing those million dollar checks to have any time to play on an internet discussion board.

 

[JoeMoma]

Tell me why there are several definitions of electricity.

There is the “amp”, “volt”, “current” and “watts”. These terms are describing different aspects of electricity which all are just a way to measure the effects of the electron. The electron in turn moves through space because of the pull and push of magnetism.

Does this have anything to do with my machine; well; no, not directly.

Now back to the problem at hand, to be repeated for the umtenth time; how simple can simpalton be-?

What’s at hand here is the power of “force” at any one moment in time.

If you are getting more energy output than is required to keep the system running then you are traveling down a downhill road coasting all the way; for the moment, this is a perpetual motion machine.

-

What you think you know isn't true.

 

[watchingfromafar]

The buckets in your machine work in a cycle. It depends on the constant up and down movement to produce work.

You are so right, as right as the falling rain on a moon lit night.

The power of the cycle is the point of this debate.

Thanks for your comment; you are right on point. To produce work, you need movement and here we have it.

In the attached drawing there are five (5) balloons or inverted umbrella’s rising on the right side being pushed up by the trapped air under them.

while another five (5) are sinking on the left side with no air in them. The drawing is not showing them.

The “constant” upwards force if the combined lifting force of the combined five balloons.

Some parts of the cycle do produce more output than others,

So true while at the same time the five (5) rising balloons work together as one lifting force.
Imagine you tie a rope to a tree branch. The rope weighs three (3) pound. The rope is hanging down almost touching the ground.
You then attach a five (5) pound weight just above the bottom.
You then attach a ten (10) pound weight just above the five pound weight.
You then attach a six (6) pound weight just above the ten pound weight.
You then attach an eight (8) pound weight just above the six pound weight.
You then attach a four (4) pound weight just above the eight pound weight.

BULLDOG, how pulling force is being applied to the tree limb-- ?
Is it the average of the combined weights or the sum of them-?

but the complete cycle is a net user of energy instead of a net producer of energy.

It takes energy to produce energy. This is just a conversion process.

You convert the upward force of rising, expanding air bubbles into mechanical energy. The question is, am I getting out more energy than I am putting in to maintain the cycle?
-

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

View attachment 307066

The buckets in your machine work in a cycle. It depends on the constant up and down movement to produce work.

You are so right, as right as the falling rain on a moon lit night.

The power of the cycle is the point of this debate.

Thanks for your comment; you are right on point. To produce work, you need movement and here we have it.

In the attached drawing there are five (5) balloons or inverted umbrella’s rising on the right side being pushed up by the trapped air under them.

while another five (5) are sinking on the left side with no air in them. The drawing is not showing them.

The “constant” upwards force if the combined lifting force of the combined five balloons.

Some parts of the cycle do produce more output than others,

So true while at the same time the five (5) rising balloons work together as one lifting force.
Imagine you tie a rope to a tree branch. The rope weighs three (3) pound. The rope is hanging down almost touching the ground.
You then attach a five (5) pound weight just above the bottom.
You then attach a ten (10) pound weight just above the five pound weight.
You then attach a six (6) pound weight just above the ten pound weight.
You then attach an eight (8) pound weight just above the six pound weight.
You then attach a four (4) pound weight just above the eight pound weight.

BULLDOG, how much pulling force is being applied to the tree limb-- ?
Is it the average of the combined weights or the sum of them-?

but the complete cycle is a net user of energy instead of a net producer of energy.

It takes energy to produce energy. This is just a conversion process.

You convert the upward force of rising, expanding air bubbles into mechanical energy. The question is, am I getting out more energy than I am putting in to maintain the cycle at any one moment is time?
-


View attachment 307066

The question is, am I getting out more energy than I am putting in to maintain the cycle at any one moment is time?

The question is, am I getting out more total energy than I put in.....to maintain the cycle.
And the answer is.....not even close.

 

[JoeMoma]

Have you ever tried to walk waist deep in a swimming pool. It is much more difficult than walking on dry flat ground, isn't it. It is much more difficult walking waist deep in water because of the drag/friction of the water. Most of the energy input to watchingfromafar's device will be eaten up simply pushing around water.

 

[JoeMoma]

The buckets in your machine work in a cycle. It depends on the constant up and down movement to produce work.

You are so right, as right as the falling rain on a moon lit night.

The power of the cycle is the point of this debate.

Thanks for your comment; you are right on point. To produce work, you need movement and here we have it.

In the attached drawing there are five (5) balloons or inverted umbrella’s rising on the right side being pushed up by the trapped air under them.

while another five (5) are sinking on the left side with no air in them. The drawing is not showing them.

The “constant” upwards force if the combined lifting force of the combined five balloons.

Some parts of the cycle do produce more output than others,

So true while at the same time the five (5) rising balloons work together as one lifting force.
Imagine you tie a rope to a tree branch. The rope weighs three (3) pound. The rope is hanging down almost touching the ground.
You then attach a five (5) pound weight just above the bottom.
You then attach a ten (10) pound weight just above the five pound weight.
You then attach a six (6) pound weight just above the ten pound weight.
You then attach an eight (8) pound weight just above the six pound weight.
You then attach a four (4) pound weight just above the eight pound weight.

BULLDOG, how pulling force is being applied to the tree limb-- ?
Is it the average of the combined weights or the sum of them-?

but the complete cycle is a net user of energy instead of a net producer of energy.

It takes energy to produce energy. This is just a conversion process.

You convert the upward force of rising, expanding air bubbles into mechanical energy. The question is, am I getting out more energy than I am putting in to maintain the cycle?
-


View attachment 307066

Bulldog made a great point that you have to consider the entire cycle. Suppose the time to cycle one balloon around your device is one minute. If you have a total of ten balloons in the cycle, then 10 balloons per minute have to be filled to complete one cycle. If you have 20 balloons in a cycle, then 20 balloons per minute have to be filled to complete on cycle. In other words, the more balloons used in a cycle, the higher the rate you device uses energy. You do not get free energy by adding more balloons pulling in your device because you are increasing the number of balloons you have to fill per minute

 

[watchingfromafar]

And the answer is.....not even close.

Toddsterpatriot, I am heading towards a fork in the road; do I turn right or lift or better yet, pull over to the side of the road and take a short nap instead >

Let me try this from one more angle point.

You used the term “total energy” and that is the key, total energy output at any one moment in time.

If I am adding (X) amount of energy to a system, then the most I can get out of this is (X) minus (- i.e. friction and the pull of gravity). Now call the final energy output for each rising bubble (Y); i.e. (X) minus the forces of resistance. Now I have five (5) (Y’s) rising together, pulling together.

The question of the day is—is the combined energy pull of the five expanding bubbles producing more mechanical energy than is needed to maintain the system-?

To get the answer requires more computations of a moving system than I am capable of computing.

That’s why I am here, I am hoping to find folks who are in the know and who are willing to sharpen their pencils’ in a unified effort to answer the question.

In an ideal world I would create a forum topic that outlines the basic topic with subforums tackling the individual components.

That’s just not going to happen here. -

 

[JoeMoma]

And the answer is.....not even close.

Toddsterpatriot, I am heading towards a fork in the road; do I turn right or lift or better yet, pull over to the side of the road and take a short nap instead >

Let me try this from one more angle point.

You used the term “total energy” and that is the key, total energy output at any one moment in time.

If I am adding (X) amount of energy to a system, then the most I can get out of this is (X) minus (- i.e. friction and the pull of gravity). Now call the final energy output for each rising bubble (Y); i.e. (X) minus the forces of resistance. Now I have five (5) (Y’s) rising together, pulling together.

The question of the day is—is the combined energy pull of the five expanding bubbles producing more mechanical energy than is needed to maintain the system-?

To get the answer requires more computations of a moving system than I am capable of computing.

That’s why I am here, I am hoping to find folks who are in the know and who are willing to sharpen their pencils’ in a unified effort to answer the question.

In an ideal world I would create a forum topic that outlines the basic topic with subforums tackling the individual components.

That’s just not going to happen here. -

To get 5 rising together, you still have to fill all five. You have to consider the entire cycle, not just a snapshot. The more balloons you have working in a cycle, the more balloons you have to fill per cycle.

 

[watchingfromafar]

. In other words, the more balloons used in a cycle, the higher the rate you device uses energy. You do not get free energy by adding more balloons pulling in your device because you are increasing the number of balloons you have to fill per minute

JoeMoma, for the life of me I cannot understand why I do not see this as you do.,.,.,.,. and still I don’t.

I see the output energy rate larger than the energy needed to sustain the system. It’s really that simple. Instead of five (5) balloons rising within a space of 594 vertical feet we could double this to 1,188 vertical feet. And still, the needed energy to sustain the system is the energy to fill one balloon.


What am I missing here, am I brain dead or what -

 

[Chuz Life]

What is the motive force to get the assembly of buckets to turn?

Brilliant!

I think it's an invention to harness the energy from rising sea levels, caused by man made catastrophic glacier melts.

I wish I thought of it first!

You would be wrong. It is a mythical perpetual motion machine that ignores physics.

Ummm.

Sarcasm is not your thing? Is it.

 

[JoeMoma]

. In other words, the more balloons used in a cycle, the higher the rate you device uses energy. You do not get free energy by adding more balloons pulling in your device because you are increasing the number of balloons you have to fill per minute

JoeMoma, for the life of me I cannot understand why I do not see this as you do.,.,.,.,. and still I don’t.

I see the output energy rate larger than the energy needed to sustain the system. It’s really that simple. Instead of five (5) balloons rising within a space of 594 vertical feet we could double this to 1,188 vertical feet. And still, the needed energy to sustain the system is the energy to fill one balloon.


What am I missing here, am I brain dead or what -

How many balloons have to be filled to sustain the cycle for the entire cycle. Yes, you may be filling one balloon at a time, but the more balloons you have in a cycle, the more you fill in a cycle. If you have five balloons pulling at one tine, you still had to fill all five balloons, not just one. You have to fill all the balloons that are pulling with air whether you fill them one at a time or all at the same time, you are using the same amount of air.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

And the answer is.....not even close.

Toddsterpatriot, I am heading towards a fork in the road; do I turn right or lift or better yet, pull over to the side of the road and take a short nap instead >

Let me try this from one more angle point.

You used the term “total energy” and that is the key, total energy output at any one moment in time.

If I am adding (X) amount of energy to a system, then the most I can get out of this is (X) minus (- i.e. friction and the pull of gravity). Now call the final energy output for each rising bubble (Y); i.e. (X) minus the forces of resistance. Now I have five (5) (Y’s) rising together, pulling together.

The question of the day is—is the combined energy pull of the five expanding bubbles producing more mechanical energy than is needed to maintain the system-?

To get the answer requires more computations of a moving system than I am capable of computing.

That’s why I am here, I am hoping to find folks who are in the know and who are willing to sharpen their pencils’ in a unified effort to answer the question.

In an ideal world I would create a forum topic that outlines the basic topic with subforums tackling the individual components.

That’s just not going to happen here. -

You used the term “total energy”

Yes, because it's cheating to say "look at the energy from 5 rising buckets" compared to the energy needed to fill one bucket.

The question of the day is—is the combined energy pull of the five expanding bubbles producing more mechanical energy than is needed to maintain the system-?

Allow me to repeat myself.........not even close.

​

To get the answer requires more computations of a moving system than I am capable of computing.​

No, it really doesn't require any computations.
​

​

That’s why I am here, I am hoping to find folks who are in the know​

Everyone who said it won't work is in the know.​

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

. In other words, the more balloons used in a cycle, the higher the rate you device uses energy. You do not get free energy by adding more balloons pulling in your device because you are increasing the number of balloons you have to fill per minute

JoeMoma, for the life of me I cannot understand why I do not see this as you do.,.,.,.,. and still I don’t.

I see the output energy rate larger than the energy needed to sustain the system. It’s really that simple. Instead of five (5) balloons rising within a space of 594 vertical feet we could double this to 1,188 vertical feet. And still, the needed energy to sustain the system is the energy to fill one balloon.


What am I missing here, am I brain dead or what -

I see the output energy rate larger than the energy needed to sustain the system.

And we see your ignorance.

 

[watchingfromafar]

You have to fill all the balloons that are pulling with air whether you fill them one at a time or all at the same time, you are using the same amount of air.

Joe, this has been a nice exchange of views and still I am brain dead, stuck in a rut and common sense is not going to set me free.

In my attachment you will see four horses pulling a wagon. Why didn’t the farmer just use one horse instead?

 

[JoeMoma]

You have to fill all the balloons that are pulling with air whether you fill them one at a time or all at the same time, you are using the same amount of air.

Joe, this has been a nice exchange of views and still I am brain dead, stuck in a rut and common since is not going to set me free.

In my attachment you will see four horses pulling a wagon. Why didn’t the farmer just use one horse instead?


View attachment 307084

Did the farmer have to feed all four horses, or just one? Suppose the horses need to eat once every four hours. The farmer feeds 1 horse at 12 noon, the 2nd horse at 1pm, the 3rd horse at 2 pm, and the 4th horse a three pm, then repeats the cycle. Will feeding the 4 horses in a cycle ( 1 horse per hour) cause then to eat less than if he feeds all 4 horses at once at 12 noon and feeds them all again in every 4 hours?

 

[JoeMoma]

You have to fill all the balloons that are pulling with air whether you fill them one at a time or all at the same time, you are using the same amount of air.

Joe, this has been a nice exchange of views and still I am brain dead, stuck in a rut and common sense is not going to set me free.

In my attachment you will see four horses pulling a wagon. Why didn’t the farmer just use one horse instead?


View attachment 307084

The farmer has to feed all 4 horses if he uses 4 horses. If he uses 1 horse, then he only needs to feed 1 horse.

 

[watchingfromafar]

Did the farmer have to feed all four horses, or just one?

Joe, this has been a nice exchange of views and still I am brain dead, stuck in a rut and common since is not going to set me free.

Your example was a good one with one small flaw. The process is a linear one but due to the timeline multiple balloons are pulling on the same cable increasing the pulling force on the cable which is greater than the force needed to sustain the system.

I’m going to take my meds, a short nap then later I will return. Maybe by then I will have seen the light, ending this merry-go-round.

Later -

 

[BULLDOG]

And the answer is.....not even close.

Toddsterpatriot, I am heading towards a fork in the road; do I turn right or lift or better yet, pull over to the side of the road and take a short nap instead >

Let me try this from one more angle point.

You used the term “total energy” and that is the key, total energy output at any one moment in time.

If I am adding (X) amount of energy to a system, then the most I can get out of this is (X) minus (- i.e. friction and the pull of gravity). Now call the final energy output for each rising bubble (Y); i.e. (X) minus the forces of resistance. Now I have five (5) (Y’s) rising together, pulling together.

The question of the day is—is the combined energy pull of the five expanding bubbles producing more mechanical energy than is needed to maintain the system-?

To get the answer requires more computations of a moving system than I am capable of computing.

That’s why I am here, I am hoping to find folks who are in the know and who are willing to sharpen their pencils’ in a unified effort to answer the question.

In an ideal world I would create a forum topic that outlines the basic topic with subforums tackling the individual components.

That’s just not going to happen here. -

No. It;s not the energy from one point in time. If the entire cycle could be completed in that one point in time, you might have a point. It can't. to get that one point in time that you are pointing to, you also have to have all the other points in time that make up the complete cycle. You can't pretend the lower output periods don't exist. They do, and they reduce the net output per cycle.. .