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It went on land? And you know this to be fact how? From everything I've read the fins could not have supported it's weight on land not being connected to the main skeleton.
Seriously your list of alleged transitional fossils prove nothing.
The rest of you post needed no response. I have heard i tbefore and I still think it's a load of BS.
Face it, you are going to believe whatever scientist tells you.
To that I say read Psalms 118:8 for my response.
Try reading some new books.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KurTiX4FDuQ]‪Amazing animals - Mudskipper‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]
Perfect example of what I was saying. The fins must be connected to the main skeleton or it would not be able to hold up the weight.
Evolution has never been proven. It is only a theory and believing that theory requires just as much if not more faith than Christians have in their beliefs. IMO
That little gem is going to make it difficult to ever take you seriously again.
I understand. I know how allergic you are to facts and opposing opinions.
Evolution.
And your definition of evolution is incorrect.
Mutation is one factor..it isn't the whole story.
That's fine...but without natural selection, evolution doesn't work.
Do you get that?
Without natural selection, it's all random. It's a tornado through the lumberyard, leaving a house in it's wake.
And...natural selection requires an advantage.
So if that photon sensing cell evolves without any of the other evolution required to make it useful...it has no selective advantage.
Now you are back to the crap shoot. 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 to 1 against.
Yeah it is pretty random.
Life itself is random. It's a crap shoot. That's probably why we haven't seen all that much around the galaxy. As far as we know, we may very well be it.
And that's what you guys fear most..that life is random, chaotic, meaningless and pointless.
You like neat little stories and easy answers. That's why religion works so well. It gives you comfort that there is a "Heavenly Father" that really cares about your every move and "Guardian Angels" are taking great steps in crafting your destiny.
Well..it's nice. It's compact. And it's comforting. But it's not reality.
Evolution has never been proven. It is only a theory and believing that theory requires just as much if not more faith than Christians have in their beliefs. IMO
That little gem is going to make it difficult to ever take you seriously again.
I understand. I know how allergic you are to facts and opposing opinions.
That's fine...but without natural selection, evolution doesn't work.
Do you get that?
Without natural selection, it's all random. It's a tornado through the lumberyard, leaving a house in it's wake.
And...natural selection requires an advantage.
So if that photon sensing cell evolves without any of the other evolution required to make it useful...it has no selective advantage.
Now you are back to the crap shoot. 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 to 1 against.
Yeah it is pretty random.
Life itself is random. It's a crap shoot. That's probably why we haven't seen all that much around the galaxy. As far as we know, we may very well be it.
And that's what you guys fear most..that life is random, chaotic, meaningless and pointless.
You like neat little stories and easy answers. That's why religion works so well. It gives you comfort that there is a "Heavenly Father" that really cares about your every move and "Guardian Angels" are taking great steps in crafting your destiny.
Well..it's nice. It's compact. And it's comforting. But it's not reality.
Congratulations, you have just freed yourself from the theory of evolution.
Yeah it is pretty random.
Life itself is random. It's a crap shoot. That's probably why we haven't seen all that much around the galaxy. As far as we know, we may very well be it.
And that's what you guys fear most..that life is random, chaotic, meaningless and pointless.
You like neat little stories and easy answers. That's why religion works so well. It gives you comfort that there is a "Heavenly Father" that really cares about your every move and "Guardian Angels" are taking great steps in crafting your destiny.
Well..it's nice. It's compact. And it's comforting. But it's not reality.
Congratulations, you have just freed yourself from the theory of evolution.
Whatever floats your boat.
Congratulations, you have just freed yourself from the theory of evolution.
Whatever floats your boat.
Dismissing yet another fact I see.7. Is evolution a random process?
Evolution is not a random process. The genetic variation on which natural selection acts may occur randomly, but natural selection itself is not random at all. The survival and reproductive success of an individual is directly related to the ways its inherited traits function in the context of its local environment. Whether or not an individual survives and reproduces depends on whether it has genes that produce traits that are well adapted to its environment.
Perfect example of what I was saying. The fins must be connected to the main skeleton or it would not be able to hold up the weight.
Um..
It's a living "Transitional Species".
Whatever floats your boat.
Dismissing yet another fact I see.7. Is evolution a random process?
Evolution is not a random process. The genetic variation on which natural selection acts may occur randomly, but natural selection itself is not random at all. The survival and reproductive success of an individual is directly related to the ways its inherited traits function in the context of its local environment. Whether or not an individual survives and reproduces depends on whether it has genes that produce traits that are well adapted to its environment.
What part of this do you need explained?
Dismissing yet another fact I see.7. Is evolution a random process?
Evolution is not a random process. The genetic variation on which natural selection acts may occur randomly, but natural selection itself is not random at all. The survival and reproductive success of an individual is directly related to the ways its inherited traits function in the context of its local environment. Whether or not an individual survives and reproduces depends on whether it has genes that produce traits that are well adapted to its environment.
What part of this do you need explained?
The part where evolution is the crap shoot you described...and at the same time not random as the definition above clearly states.
Take your time.
Perfect example of what I was saying. The fins must be connected to the main skeleton or it would not be able to hold up the weight.
Um..
It's a living "Transitional Species".
So is the platypus.
Dismissing yet another fact I see.7. Is evolution a random process?
Evolution is not a random process. The genetic variation on which natural selection acts may occur randomly, but natural selection itself is not random at all. The survival and reproductive success of an individual is directly related to the ways its inherited traits function in the context of its local environment. Whether or not an individual survives and reproduces depends on whether it has genes that produce traits that are well adapted to its environment.
What part of this do you need explained?
The part where evolution is the crap shoot you described...and at the same time not random as the definition above clearly states.
Take your time.
What part of this do you need explained?
The part where evolution is the crap shoot you described...and at the same time not random as the definition above clearly states.
Take your time.
Simple enough.
The "process" isn't random. It occurs in all species. And it's easy enough to track. And it's repeatable.
It's "effectiveness" is random.
For example:
A small rodent's natural predator is a snake. The faster rodents that are able to avoid becoming a meal passes on it's genetic traits to it's offspring. The slower ones don't.
Is that clear enough? Or do you need further expansion on that..
And?
What part of this do you need explained?
The part where evolution is the crap shoot you described...and at the same time not random as the definition above clearly states.
Take your time.
We're talking about gene mutations, each of which are accidental and slightly (or dramatically) modify the genetic instructions for the organism. Most gene mutations are harmful for the next generation, but occasionally a mutation turns out to give better instructions than that of the predecessor. These are the ones who tend to survive and reproduce. Of course, for all we know, the lizard born with the best instructions evah was randomly scooped up by a bird and eaten in it's infancy.
Evolution is random, but which mutations survive is not.
Sallow's response was "why do they need to be simultaneous?".Right here is the biggest hole in evolution.Macro-evolution sounds plausible, until you apply logic.The question now of course is, how could such a system [the eye] evolve gradually? All the pieces must be in place simultaneously. For example, what good would it be for an earthworm that has no eyes to suddenly evolve the protein 11-cis-retinal in a small group or "spot" of cells on its head? These cells now have the ability to detect photons, but so what? What benefit is that to the earthworm? Now, lets say that somehow these cells develop all the needed proteins to activate an electrical charge across their membranes in response to a photon of light striking them. So what?! What good is it for them to be able to establish an electrical gradient across their membranes if there is no nervous pathway to the worm's minute brain?
Now, what if this pathway did happen to suddenly evolve and such a signal could be sent to the worm's brain. So what?! How is the worm going to know what to do with this signal? It will have to learn what this signal means. Learning and interpretation are very complicated processes involving a great many other proteins in other unique systems.
Now the earthworm, in one lifetime, must evolve the ability to pass on this ability to interpret vision to its offspring. If it does not pass on this ability, the offspring must learn as well or vision offers no advantage to them.
All of these wonderful processes need regulation. No function is beneficial unless it can be regulated (turned off and on). If the light sensitive cells cannot be turned off once they are turned on, vision does not occur. This regulatory ability is also very complicated involving a great many proteins and other molecules… all of which must be in place initially for vision to be beneficial.
I'll be happy to give you more examples after you explain the one outlined above^.
It is impossible for ALL those absolutely random mutation to occur at the exact same time to allow for a light sensitive spot.
There is also no reason for the random mutations individually to be passed on as by themselves, they give no advantage for natural selection.
Explain?
The part where evolution is the crap shoot you described...and at the same time not random as the definition above clearly states.
Take your time.
We're talking about gene mutations, each of which are accidental and slightly (or dramatically) modify the genetic instructions for the organism. Most gene mutations are harmful for the next generation, but occasionally a mutation turns out to give better instructions than that of the predecessor. These are the ones who tend to survive and reproduce. Of course, for all we know, the lizard born with the best instructions evah was randomly scooped up by a bird and eaten in it's infancy.
Evolution is random, but which mutations survive is not.
I totally agree with that explanation.
Now answer part 2...This is from an earlier post.
Sallow's response was "why do they need to be simultaneous?".Right here is the biggest hole in evolution.Macro-evolution sounds plausible, until you apply logic.The question now of course is, how could such a system [the eye] evolve gradually? All the pieces must be in place simultaneously. For example, what good would it be for an earthworm that has no eyes to suddenly evolve the protein 11-cis-retinal in a small group or "spot" of cells on its head? These cells now have the ability to detect photons, but so what? What benefit is that to the earthworm? Now, lets say that somehow these cells develop all the needed proteins to activate an electrical charge across their membranes in response to a photon of light striking them. So what?! What good is it for them to be able to establish an electrical gradient across their membranes if there is no nervous pathway to the worm's minute brain?
Now, what if this pathway did happen to suddenly evolve and such a signal could be sent to the worm's brain. So what?! How is the worm going to know what to do with this signal? It will have to learn what this signal means. Learning and interpretation are very complicated processes involving a great many other proteins in other unique systems.
Now the earthworm, in one lifetime, must evolve the ability to pass on this ability to interpret vision to its offspring. If it does not pass on this ability, the offspring must learn as well or vision offers no advantage to them.
All of these wonderful processes need regulation. No function is beneficial unless it can be regulated (turned off and on). If the light sensitive cells cannot be turned off once they are turned on, vision does not occur. This regulatory ability is also very complicated involving a great many proteins and other molecules⦠all of which must be in place initially for vision to be beneficial.
I'll be happy to give you more examples after you explain the one outlined above^.
It is impossible for ALL those absolutely random mutation to occur at the exact same time to allow for a light sensitive spot.
There is also no reason for the random mutations individually to be passed on as by themselves, they give no advantage for natural selection.
Explain?
So I explained what you explained above...for natural selection to function, the mutation (or gene recombination or gene flow)...the change must produce an advantage.
Sallow says "well then it's a crap shoot."
A crap shoot is not part of evolutionary theory.
and now Sallow wants to go all around the mulberry bush.
So...
Explain how natural selection works on a trait that provides no advantage whatsoever.
And if you can't do that, then explain how a creature evolves the multiple structure simultaneously to enable that light receptor to function so it does create an advantage.
To be clear, this is an open question to anyone, not just you specifically, or Sallow.
The part where evolution is the crap shoot you described...and at the same time not random as the definition above clearly states.
Take your time.
We're talking about gene mutations, each of which are accidental and slightly (or dramatically) modify the genetic instructions for the organism. Most gene mutations are harmful for the next generation, but occasionally a mutation turns out to give better instructions than that of the predecessor. These are the ones who tend to survive and reproduce. Of course, for all we know, the lizard born with the best instructions evah was randomly scooped up by a bird and eaten in it's infancy.
Evolution is random, but which mutations survive is not.
I totally agree with that explanation.
Now answer part 2...This is from an earlier post.
Sallow's response was "why do they need to be simultaneous?".Right here is the biggest hole in evolution.Macro-evolution sounds plausible, until you apply logic.The question now of course is, how could such a system [the eye] evolve gradually? All the pieces must be in place simultaneously. For example, what good would it be for an earthworm that has no eyes to suddenly evolve the protein 11-cis-retinal in a small group or "spot" of cells on its head? These cells now have the ability to detect photons, but so what? What benefit is that to the earthworm? Now, lets say that somehow these cells develop all the needed proteins to activate an electrical charge across their membranes in response to a photon of light striking them. So what?! What good is it for them to be able to establish an electrical gradient across their membranes if there is no nervous pathway to the worm's minute brain?
Now, what if this pathway did happen to suddenly evolve and such a signal could be sent to the worm's brain. So what?! How is the worm going to know what to do with this signal? It will have to learn what this signal means. Learning and interpretation are very complicated processes involving a great many other proteins in other unique systems.
Now the earthworm, in one lifetime, must evolve the ability to pass on this ability to interpret vision to its offspring. If it does not pass on this ability, the offspring must learn as well or vision offers no advantage to them.
All of these wonderful processes need regulation. No function is beneficial unless it can be regulated (turned off and on). If the light sensitive cells cannot be turned off once they are turned on, vision does not occur. This regulatory ability is also very complicated involving a great many proteins and other molecules⦠all of which must be in place initially for vision to be beneficial.
I'll be happy to give you more examples after you explain the one outlined above^.
It is impossible for ALL those absolutely random mutation to occur at the exact same time to allow for a light sensitive spot.
There is also no reason for the random mutations individually to be passed on as by themselves, they give no advantage for natural selection.
Explain?
So I explained what you explained above...for natural selection to function, the mutation (or gene recombination or gene flow)...the change must produce an advantage.
Sallow says "well then it's a crap shoot."
A crap shoot is not part of evolutionary theory.
and now Sallow wants to go all around the mulberry bush.
So...
Explain how natural selection works on a trait that provides no advantage whatsoever.
And if you can't do that, then explain how a creature evolves the multiple structure simultaneously to enable that light receptor to function so it does create an advantage.
To be clear, this is an open question to anyone, not just you specifically, or Sallow.
