Twoofer Strategy

[Mr. Jones]

False flag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"False colors" redirects here. For the imaging technique, see False-color.
False flag (aka Black Flag) operations are covert operations designed to deceive the public in such a way that the operations appear as though they are being carried out by other entities. The name is derived from the military concept of flying false colors; that is flying the flag of a country other than one's own. False flag operations are not limited to war and counter-insurgency operations, and can be used in peace-time.

No one is debating the definition of "false-flag." I have never said that the U.S. has not participated in false-flag incidents with intentions of leading us to war. The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution and the U.S.S. Maine were used for these purposes; even though the U.S.S. Maine actually blew up by accident...but was used as a false-flag event.

I'm really getting tired of repeating myself.

Once again...Mr. Jones is trying to prove that 9/11 was false-flag attack carried out or allowed by the U.S. government to propel us into war in the Middle East. He posted the Operation Northwoods Document claiming that it was proof that the U.S. was willing to kill it's own people in a false-flag incident. (Implying that the approx. 3,000 U.S. citizens killed on September 11th were victims of a false-flag attack) He continues to post edited passages from the document and claims that they are proof without posting the rest of the subsections below each false-flag scenario.

I read further on the document where, in each subsection, it laid out the plans for removing American citizens or personnel from harms way during each false-flag incident.

For example: The "college student" plan clearly showed that CIA and Government agents would board a pane and fly towards Cuba. An identical (droned) plane would also fly in the same direction. At some point, the plane with the passengers would land at Elgin AFB and be evacuated while the identical drone plane would send out a May Day message. (This does not illustrate the U.S. willingness to sacrifice American lives in a false-flag attack-thus doing nothing for Mr. Jones' argument that Sept. 11 was false flag attack.)

Another example would be the scenario in which a U.S. fighter jet would be shot down by the Cubans. This scenario is virtually identical to the previous scenario in that the pilot would report being fired at by an enemy jet. The pilot would then land securely at a safe location and a droned F-16 would be shot down...simulating that one of our pilots was shot down by the Cubans. (Once again we have a scenario in which an American citizen's life was night being sacrificed in a false-flag attack).

Another example is the suggestion of MIG planes harrassing civil airliners. In this scenario, our own planes would be painted like MIGs and then harrass commercial airliners so that the passengers could get home and say that they identified the jet as a MIG. (Once again, no mention of blowing planes out of the sky and killing innocent Americans).

There is one scenario that suggests shooting a Cuban refugee flotilla...HOWEVER THIS ALSO SUGGESTS THAT THE INCIDENT COULD BE FAKED RATHER THAN ACTUALLY DONE. And furthermore, it still does not illustrate the U.S. Government's willingness to murder it's own civiliians in a false-flag attack. It does illustrate the U.S. Government's willingness to kill people from another country in a false-flag attack.

Eots...I know you and I disagree on a lot in this regard, BUT, you have to admit that by reading this document, it does not suggest the U.S. is willing to lose it's own citizens in these false-flag attacks. Whether they actually do or not is not the question, but rather tha this document proves it.

You still don't get it? I rest my case anyway on the basis of my last response to you, if you think they are so benevolent, and care so much about innocent lives, you are sorely mistaken.

 

[Mr. Jones]

What's your purpose? It is a true statement regardless if I said it or not. This plan was to be carried out in our name, under false pretenses.
Also on page 9 of the doc it clearly says the following:
"The terror campaign could be pointed at Cuban refugees seeking asylum.We could sink a boatload of Cubans en route to Florida, (real or simulated) We could foster events on lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized. Exploding a few plastic bombs, in carefully chosen spots..
So killing a boatload of INNOCENT Cubans who thought they were on their way to be free in the god ole' USA would be no big deal. Or "wounding" Cubans already in the US is ok? And who's to say that these "woundings" would not possibly result in an innocent death, of an American even who was standing too close to the target??
This whole plan and others before and since have killed/murdered innocent civilians, and military peeps.

LOL WOW no wonder...All this time and you didn't know what "false flag" meant And you call me a dipshit, man thanks for the laugh though!
But seriously no, I really was not trying to pull a fast one on you, there are many instances of real false attacks you can read about, but I will admit to a little sarcasm, since there was no way you would have found any of these attacks that did not produce innocent carnage. Look em up and you'll see.

Um no, Again YOU ARE THE DUMBASS like I said above there are such incidents that are documented, and by the way it would help if you understood the definition of "false flag". Hint it does not mean it didn't happen or exist, it means under false pretenses, and flying the flag of the nation you want to go to war with, like using the enemies uniform etc..
Look it up, you'll see.

READ YOU'RE OWN BOLDED POST....IT SAYS "REAL OR SIMULATED". ALSO, you said "KILLING OUR OWN PEOPLE IN YOUR POST, NOT OTHER NATIONS. You must be halfway to China in that hole your digging.

Why do you demean the part that says REAl? In other words they didn't care if this particular part would actually be REAL and sink the boat that would kill innocent Cubans!
Lol, now you are appealing to another "truther"
Gotta love it!

 

[Patriot911]

All this bullshit Jones is pulling out of his ass is a classic red herring. It does NOTHING to prove their point.

Did plans for Operation Northwoods get drawn up? Absolutely. By a government no longer in power and hasn't been for decades.

Did Gulf of Tonkin get lied about? At the time, dubious information was stated as fact and never corrected, so yes. This was also done by a government no longer in power and hasn't been for decades.

So all of this is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Pretending that other people in other times have done bad things or planned bad things is proof that our government is doing those things now is ludicrous.

Any person is capable of horrendous deeds. A group of people with a common goal is also capable of horrendous deeds. We have seen this throughout the history of mankind. Nobody, myself included, is saying our government isn't CAPABLE of executing a plan like 9/11. They are. What the government is incapable of is keeping something as large as 9/11 and the coverup after 9/11 a secret.

This is proven in the paradox truthtards like to pretend is truth. Simply stated, the truthtard theory would have us believe two diametrically opposed facts as true. They want us to believe our government is capable of perfectly carrying out a crime as massive as 9/11 and the coverup of that crime afterwards despite the number of people that would have to be in on the conspiracy. OK. Fine. But THEN they want us to believe the government made mistake after mistake after mistake after really stupid idea after really stupid idea because they are basically retarded. For instance, why blow up the buildings when it dramatically increases the risks of discovery beforehand, dramatically increases the complexity of the attack, and dramatically increases the risk of discovery after the attack? It doesn't buy you ANYTHING, yet truthtards would have us believe the people behind the conspiracy went through the massive undertakings to blow up the buildings as well as fly planes into them.

Two concepts completely diametrically opposed. Perfect and stupid at the same time. The above example is just one of MANY in the truthtard playbook. No plane at Shanksville? Why not? Why not just crash the plane at a random place like Shanksville? Why go through the extra risk of landing the plane somewhere else, and crashing something else at Shanksville?

Or the missile into the Pentagon?

The list goes on and on and on.

 

[Mr. Jones]

Moreover, recently declassified documents show that in the 1960's, the American Joint Chiefs of Staff signed off on a plan to blow up AMERICAN airplanes (using an elaborate plan involving the switching of airplanes), and also to commit terrorist acts on American soil, and then to blame it on the Cubans in order to justify an invasion of Cuba. If you view no other links in this article, please read the following ABC news report;
U.S. Military Wanted to Provoke War With Cuba - ABC News

the official documents;
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf
and watch this interview with the former Washington Investigative Producer for ABC's World News Tonight with Peter Jennings.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IygchZRJVXM]YouTube - Operation Northwoods[/ame]

You might say "But Al-Qaeda is different -- powerful, organized, and out to get us", right? Maybe, but take a look at this Los Angeles Times Article,
Is Al Qaeda Just a Bush Boogeyman?

reviewing a BBC documentary entitled "The Power of Nightmares",
The Power of Nightmares

which shows that the threat from Al Qaeda has been vastly overblown (and see this article on who is behind the hype).
'The Power of Nightmares': Hyping Terror For Fun, Profit - And Power

And a former National Security Adviser told the Senate that the war on terror is "a mythical historical narrative".
"People All Over The World Who Want Freedom, Somehow Or The Other Feel Connected To Other People Who Are Struggling For Freedom." → Washington's Blog

How Jimmy Carter and I Started the Mujahideen-Who went on to become Al-Qaeda
No Regrets: Carter, Brzezinski and the Muj

No lies , no spin or BS just real facts that freedom loving REAL Americans should know.

 

[Patriot911]

Moreover, recently declassified documents show that in the 1960's, the American Joint Chiefs of Staff signed off on a plan to blow up AMERICAN airplanes (using an elaborate plan involving the switching of airplanes), and also to commit terrorist acts on American soil, and then to blame it on the Cubans in order to justify an invasion of Cuba. If you view no other links in this article, please read the following ABC news report;
U.S. Military Wanted to Provoke War With Cuba - ABC News

the official documents;
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf
and watch this interview with the former Washington Investigative Producer for ABC's World News Tonight with Peter Jennings.

YouTube - Operation Northwoods

You might say "But Al-Qaeda is different -- powerful, organized, and out to get us", right? Maybe, but take a look at this Los Angeles Times Article,
Is Al Qaeda Just a Bush Boogeyman?

reviewing a BBC documentary entitled "The Power of Nightmares",
The Power of Nightmares

which shows that the threat from Al Qaeda has been vastly overblown (and see this article on who is behind the hype).
'The Power of Nightmares': Hyping Terror For Fun, Profit - And Power

And a former National Security Adviser told the Senate that the war on terror is "a mythical historical narrative".
"People All Over The World Who Want Freedom, Somehow Or The Other Feel Connected To Other People Who Are Struggling For Freedom." → Washington's Blog

How Jimmy Carter and I Started the Mujahideen-Who went on to become Al-Qaeda
No Regrets: Carter, Brzezinski and the Muj

No lies , no spin or BS just real facts that freedom loving REAL Americans should know.

Shitforbrains Jones posts opinion articles and tries to pretend there is no lies, spin or BS. Anyone else wondering just what the hell he is smoking that makes him think anyone is going to believe his bullshit is no lies, no spin and no BS?

 

[eots]

moreover, recently declassified documents show that in the 1960's, the american joint chiefs of staff signed off on a plan to blow up american airplanes (using an elaborate plan involving the switching of airplanes), and also to commit terrorist acts on american soil, and then to blame it on the cubans in order to justify an invasion of cuba. If you view no other links in this article, please read the following abc news report;
u.s. Military wanted to provoke war with cuba - abc news

the official documents;
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf
and watch this interview with the former washington investigative producer for abc's world news tonight with peter jennings.

youtube - operation northwoods

you might say "but al-qaeda is different -- powerful, organized, and out to get us", right? Maybe, but take a look at this los angeles times article,
is al qaeda just a bush boogeyman?

reviewing a bbc documentary entitled "the power of nightmares",
the power of nightmares

which shows that the threat from al qaeda has been vastly overblown (and see this article on who is behind the hype).
'the power of nightmares': Hyping terror for fun, profit - and power

and a former national security adviser told the senate that the war on terror is "a mythical historical narrative".
"people all over the world who want freedom, somehow or the other feel connected to other people who are struggling for freedom." → washington's blog

how jimmy carter and i started the mujahideen-who went on to become al-qaeda
no regrets: Carter, brzezinski and the muj

no lies , no spin or bs just real facts that freedom loving real americans should know.

Shitforbrains jones posts opinion articles and tries to pretend there is no lies, spin or bs. Anyone else wondering just what the hell he is smoking that makes him think anyone is going to believe his bullshit is no lies, no spin and no bs?

actually I was wondering if you really believe your own bullshit

 

[candycorn]

And I use the term in the title loosely...very loosely.

Well kids it's been 9 years and you've gotten nowhere. Less than nowhere actually because you morons can't even agree on a central set of "facts" (I'm using the quotes because what you idiots call facts are usually nothing more than opinions from people with an agenda).

So I'm curious, where are you going to go from here? We realized Rome wasn't built in a day but they had some blueprints drawn up in 9 years I betcha. Put another way; some GOP dipshit somewhere will end up as his party's standard bearer in 2012 to face President Obama. At this point, that man/woman has not filed. They have only an outline of an election machine at best. A staff of thousands has not been hired. Advertising has not been bought. There is no organization in place. Yet somehow in the next 647 days, all of that will come to pass from literally nothing in place today. You guys have had 3,427 days and you can't come up with a single "fact" or actual FACT to prop up your claims.

Whats next?

Seriously dumbasses....what are you going to do to try and pass yourselves off as legitimate?

 

[Ringel05]

And I use the term in the title loosely...very loosely.

Well kids it's been 9 years and you've gotten nowhere. Less than nowhere actually because you morons can't even agree on a central set of "facts" (I'm using the quotes because what you idiots call facts are usually nothing more than opinions from people with an agenda).

So I'm curious, where are you going to go from here? We realized Rome wasn't built in a day but they had some blueprints drawn up in 9 years I betcha. Put another way; some GOP dipshit somewhere will end up as his party's standard bearer in 2012 to face President Obama. At this point, that man/woman has not filed. They have only an outline of an election machine at best. A staff of thousands has not been hired. Advertising has not been bought. There is no organization in place. Yet somehow in the next 647 days, all of that will come to pass from literally nothing in place today. You guys have had 3,427 days and you can't come up with a single "fact" or actual FACT to prop up your claims.

Whats next?

Seriously dumbasses....what are you going to do to try and pass yourselves off as legitimate?

 

[Patriot911]

moreover, recently declassified documents show that in the 1960's, the american joint chiefs of staff signed off on a plan to blow up american airplanes (using an elaborate plan involving the switching of airplanes), and also to commit terrorist acts on american soil, and then to blame it on the cubans in order to justify an invasion of cuba. If you view no other links in this article, please read the following abc news report;
u.s. Military wanted to provoke war with cuba - abc news

the official documents;
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf
and watch this interview with the former washington investigative producer for abc's world news tonight with peter jennings.

youtube - operation northwoods

you might say "but al-qaeda is different -- powerful, organized, and out to get us", right? Maybe, but take a look at this los angeles times article,
is al qaeda just a bush boogeyman?

reviewing a bbc documentary entitled "the power of nightmares",
the power of nightmares

which shows that the threat from al qaeda has been vastly overblown (and see this article on who is behind the hype).
'the power of nightmares': Hyping terror for fun, profit - and power

and a former national security adviser told the senate that the war on terror is "a mythical historical narrative".
"people all over the world who want freedom, somehow or the other feel connected to other people who are struggling for freedom." → washington's blog

how jimmy carter and i started the mujahideen-who went on to become al-qaeda
no regrets: Carter, brzezinski and the muj

no lies , no spin or bs just real facts that freedom loving real americans should know.

Shitforbrains jones posts opinion articles and tries to pretend there is no lies, spin or bs. Anyone else wondering just what the hell he is smoking that makes him think anyone is going to believe his bullshit is no lies, no spin and no bs?

actually I was wondering if you really believe your own bullshit

I absolutely believe what I write. It is backed up by the evidence and it is by FAR the most logical explanation. You shitheads post all kinds of wild theories you can't back up, have no evidence for, and try to pretend opinions are somehow fact. How could ANYONE not mentally retarded believe a word out of a truthtards mouth?

 

[BrianH]

False flag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"False colors" redirects here. For the imaging technique, see False-color.
False flag (aka Black Flag) operations are covert operations designed to deceive the public in such a way that the operations appear as though they are being carried out by other entities. The name is derived from the military concept of flying false colors; that is flying the flag of a country other than one's own. False flag operations are not limited to war and counter-insurgency operations, and can be used in peace-time.

No one is debating the definition of "false-flag." I have never said that the U.S. has not participated in false-flag incidents with intentions of leading us to war. The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution and the U.S.S. Maine were used for these purposes; even though the U.S.S. Maine actually blew up by accident...but was used as a false-flag event.

I'm really getting tired of repeating myself.

Once again...Mr. Jones is trying to prove that 9/11 was false-flag attack carried out or allowed by the U.S. government to propel us into war in the Middle East. He posted the Operation Northwoods Document claiming that it was proof that the U.S. was willing to kill it's own people in a false-flag incident. (Implying that the approx. 3,000 U.S. citizens killed on September 11th were victims of a false-flag attack) He continues to post edited passages from the document and claims that they are proof without posting the rest of the subsections below each false-flag scenario.

I read further on the document where, in each subsection, it laid out the plans for removing American citizens or personnel from harms way during each false-flag incident.

For example: The "college student" plan clearly showed that CIA and Government agents would board a pane and fly towards Cuba. An identical (droned) plane would also fly in the same direction. At some point, the plane with the passengers would land at Elgin AFB and be evacuated while the identical drone plane would send out a May Day message. (This does not illustrate the U.S. willingness to sacrifice American lives in a false-flag attack-thus doing nothing for Mr. Jones' argument that Sept. 11 was false flag attack.)

Another example would be the scenario in which a U.S. fighter jet would be shot down by the Cubans. This scenario is virtually identical to the previous scenario in that the pilot would report being fired at by an enemy jet. The pilot would then land securely at a safe location and a droned F-16 would be shot down...simulating that one of our pilots was shot down by the Cubans. (Once again we have a scenario in which an American citizen's life was night being sacrificed in a false-flag attack).

Another example is the suggestion of MIG planes harrassing civil airliners. In this scenario, our own planes would be painted like MIGs and then harrass commercial airliners so that the passengers could get home and say that they identified the jet as a MIG. (Once again, no mention of blowing planes out of the sky and killing innocent Americans).

There is one scenario that suggests shooting a Cuban refugee flotilla...HOWEVER THIS ALSO SUGGESTS THAT THE INCIDENT COULD BE FAKED RATHER THAN ACTUALLY DONE. And furthermore, it still does not illustrate the U.S. Government's willingness to murder it's own civiliians in a false-flag attack. It does illustrate the U.S. Government's willingness to kill people from another country in a false-flag attack.

Eots...I know you and I disagree on a lot in this regard, BUT, you have to admit that by reading this document, it does not suggest the U.S. is willing to lose it's own citizens in these false-flag attacks. Whether they actually do or not is not the question, but rather tha this document proves it.

You still don't get it? I rest my case anyway on the basis of my last response to you, if you think they are so benevolent, and care so much about innocent lives, you are sorely mistaken.

I did not say they cared about innocent lives dip shit. You posted the Northwoods Document as evidence they would kill their own people in a false-flag attack. I took the very same document and proved you wrong; that the U.S. (according to the text in the Northwoods Document) is not willing to kill it's own people in a false-flag attack.

 

[Mr. Jones]

No one is debating the definition of "false-flag."

You thought a false flag attack was something "false" and not real!!
Look back through your posts where you thought I was trying to trick you!! You fucking idiotic moron!!

I have never said that the U.S. has not participated in false-flag incidents with intentions of leading us to war. The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution and the U.S.S. Maine were used for these purposes; even though the U.S.S. Maine actually blew up by accident...but was used as a false-flag event.

I'm really getting tired of repeating myself.

Once again...Mr. Jones is trying to prove that 9/11 was false-flag attack carried out or allowed by the U.S. government to propel us into war in the Middle East. He posted the Operation Northwoods Document claiming that it was proof that the U.S. was willing to kill it's own people in a false-flag incident. (Implying that the approx. 3,000 U.S. citizens killed on September 11th were victims of a false-flag attack) He continues to post edited passages from the document and claims that they are proof without posting the rest of the subsections below each false-flag scenario.

I read further on the document where, in each subsection, it laid out the plans for removing American citizens or personnel from harms way during each false-flag incident.

For example: The "college student" plan clearly showed that CIA and Government agents would board a pane and fly towards Cuba. An identical (droned) plane would also fly in the same direction. At some point, the plane with the passengers would land at Elgin AFB and be evacuated while the identical drone plane would send out a May Day message. (This does not illustrate the U.S. willingness to sacrifice American lives in a false-flag attack-thus doing nothing for Mr. Jones' argument that Sept. 11 was false flag attack.)

Another example would be the scenario in which a U.S. fighter jet would be shot down by the Cubans. This scenario is virtually identical to the previous scenario in that the pilot would report being fired at by an enemy jet. The pilot would then land securely at a safe location and a droned F-16 would be shot down...simulating that one of our pilots was shot down by the Cubans. (Once again we have a scenario in which an American citizen's life was night being sacrificed in a false-flag attack).

Another example is the suggestion of MIG planes harrassing civil airliners. In this scenario, our own planes would be painted like MIGs and then harrass commercial airliners so that the passengers could get home and say that they identified the jet as a MIG. (Once again, no mention of blowing planes out of the sky and killing innocent Americans).

There is one scenario that suggests shooting a Cuban refugee flotilla...HOWEVER THIS ALSO SUGGESTS THAT THE INCIDENT COULD BE FAKED RATHER THAN ACTUALLY DONE. And furthermore, it still does not illustrate the U.S. Government's willingness to murder it's own civiliians in a false-flag attack. It does illustrate the U.S. Government's willingness to kill people from another country in a false-flag attack.

Eots...I know you and I disagree on a lot in this regard, BUT, you have to admit that by reading this document, it does not suggest the U.S. is willing to lose it's own citizens in these false-flag attacks. Whether they actually do or not is not the question, but rather tha this document proves it.

You still don't get it? I rest my case anyway on the basis of my last response to you, if you think they are so benevolent, and care so much about innocent lives, you are sorely mistaken.

I did not say they cared about innocent lives dip shit.

You think it, and suggest as much, as evidenced by what you say in your last sentence of this very post that I highlight below for you.

You posted the Northwoods Document as evidence they would kill their own people in a false-flag attack. I took the very same document and proved you wrong;

You most certainly did not, as I have already shown you many times already, fool. No where in the history of the US has a false flag attack NOT ended up killing Americans! The act itself leads to massive deaths, as it is designed to cause a war..you know where people die?!

Do you think that blowing up a drone aircraft with no one inside of it, that is blamed on another nation, and leads to war where innocent unknowing Americans die, is NOT killing your own people??
Are you that stupid and or stubborn to still pursue this asinine train of thought and irrational argument?
Give it up, drone or not, it leads to the killing of our own people, in a war based on fucking lies. They would sacrifice the lives of their own people, by conducting a false flag attack, the proof is in the Doc.

that the U.S. (according to the text in the Northwoods Document) is not willing to kill it's own people in a false-flag attack.

Can you make out your own contradiction here?

"I did not say they cared about innocent lives dip shit. "

After you have been suggesting all along that they-

"went out of their way to insure they didn't kill any of their own people"

Going out of your way for someone suggests concern, hence "care" for someone.
But now you post that you don't mean that?! WTF are you smoking?

The whole idea behind the plan is to cause a war where American military personnel would certainly get killed.
Hint, American military personnel IS their own people dip shit!

Northwoods recognized that the best justification for attacking Cuba was to trick Cuba into attacking U.S. forces first here are a few incidents where US personnel would be killed-
"1. Since it would seem desirable to use legitimate [sic!] provocation as the basis for US military intervention in Cuba, a cover and deception plan, to include requisite preliminary actions such as has been developed in response to Task 33 o [this may be a 'c'] could be executed as an initial effort to provoke Cuban reactions. Harassment plus deceptive actions to convince the Cubans of imminent invasion would be emphasized. Our military posture throughout execution of the plan will allow a rapid change from exercise to intervention if Cuban response justifies."


"3. A "Remember the Maine" incident could be arranged in several forms:
a. We could blow up a US ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba."

There were additional plans for the staging of violent incidents which are not included in the Northwoods document:
"3. It is understood that the Department of State also is preparing suggested courses of action to develop justification for US military intervention in Cuba."

So what I think you are saying is that if no one actually were to die in the commission of the actual false flag attack, even though the plan and execution of the attack ends up killing thousands of American military personnel and innocent civilians on the target nation, in the US response and War it is specifically designed to achieve... this is somehow OK and you can justify this sort of plan and actions,
Because this is exactly what you are defending?

http://emperors-clothes.com/images/north-int.htm

 

[candycorn]

No one is debating the definition of "false-flag." I have never said that the U.S. has not participated in false-flag incidents with intentions of leading us to war. The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution and the U.S.S. Maine were used for these purposes; even though the U.S.S. Maine actually blew up by accident...but was used as a false-flag event.

I'm really getting tired of repeating myself.

Once again...Mr. Jones is trying to prove that 9/11 was false-flag attack carried out or allowed by the U.S. government to propel us into war in the Middle East. He posted the Operation Northwoods Document claiming that it was proof that the U.S. was willing to kill it's own people in a false-flag incident. (Implying that the approx. 3,000 U.S. citizens killed on September 11th were victims of a false-flag attack) He continues to post edited passages from the document and claims that they are proof without posting the rest of the subsections below each false-flag scenario.

I read further on the document where, in each subsection, it laid out the plans for removing American citizens or personnel from harms way during each false-flag incident.

For example: The "college student" plan clearly showed that CIA and Government agents would board a pane and fly towards Cuba. An identical (droned) plane would also fly in the same direction. At some point, the plane with the passengers would land at Elgin AFB and be evacuated while the identical drone plane would send out a May Day message. (This does not illustrate the U.S. willingness to sacrifice American lives in a false-flag attack-thus doing nothing for Mr. Jones' argument that Sept. 11 was false flag attack.)

Another example would be the scenario in which a U.S. fighter jet would be shot down by the Cubans. This scenario is virtually identical to the previous scenario in that the pilot would report being fired at by an enemy jet. The pilot would then land securely at a safe location and a droned F-16 would be shot down...simulating that one of our pilots was shot down by the Cubans. (Once again we have a scenario in which an American citizen's life was night being sacrificed in a false-flag attack).

Another example is the suggestion of MIG planes harrassing civil airliners. In this scenario, our own planes would be painted like MIGs and then harrass commercial airliners so that the passengers could get home and say that they identified the jet as a MIG. (Once again, no mention of blowing planes out of the sky and killing innocent Americans).

There is one scenario that suggests shooting a Cuban refugee flotilla...HOWEVER THIS ALSO SUGGESTS THAT THE INCIDENT COULD BE FAKED RATHER THAN ACTUALLY DONE. And furthermore, it still does not illustrate the U.S. Government's willingness to murder it's own civiliians in a false-flag attack. It does illustrate the U.S. Government's willingness to kill people from another country in a false-flag attack.

Eots...I know you and I disagree on a lot in this regard, BUT, you have to admit that by reading this document, it does not suggest the U.S. is willing to lose it's own citizens in these false-flag attacks. Whether they actually do or not is not the question, but rather tha this document proves it.

You still don't get it? I rest my case anyway on the basis of my last response to you, if you think they are so benevolent, and care so much about innocent lives, you are sorely mistaken.

I did not say they cared about innocent lives dip shit. You posted the Northwoods Document as evidence they would kill their own people in a false-flag attack. I took the very same document and proved you wrong; that the U.S. (according to the text in the Northwoods Document) is not willing to kill it's own people in a false-flag attack.

As with all twoofers; they cite a document as long as it benefits them; the moment that source directly contradicts their fantasies about what happened on 9/11, it becomes irrelevant.

The world doesn't work that way. Sorry.

 

[eots]

You still don't get it? I rest my case anyway on the basis of my last response to you, if you think they are so benevolent, and care so much about innocent lives, you are sorely mistaken.

I did not say they cared about innocent lives dip shit. You posted the Northwoods Document as evidence they would kill their own people in a false-flag attack. I took the very same document and proved you wrong; that the U.S. (according to the text in the Northwoods Document) is not willing to kill it's own people in a false-flag attack.

As with all twoofers; they cite a document as long as it benefits them; the moment that source directly contradicts their fantasies about what happened on 9/11, it becomes irrelevant.

The world doesn't work that way. Sorry.

no one likes you... true story

 

[BrianH]

You still don't get it? I rest my case anyway on the basis of my last response to you, if you think they are so benevolent, and care so much about innocent lives, you are sorely mistaken.

You think it, and suggest as much, as evidenced by what you say in your last sentence of this very post that I highlight below for you.

You most certainly did not, as I have already shown you many times already, fool. No where in the history of the US has a false flag attack NOT ended up killing Americans! The act itself leads to massive deaths, as it is designed to cause a war..you know where people die?!

Do you think that blowing up a drone aircraft with no one inside of it, that is blamed on another nation, and leads to war where innocent unknowing Americans die, is NOT killing your own people??
Are you that stupid and or stubborn to still pursue this asinine train of thought and irrational argument?
Give it up, drone or not, it leads to the killing of our own people, in a war based on fucking lies. They would sacrifice the lives of their own people, by conducting a false flag attack, the proof is in the Doc.

that the U.S. (according to the text in the Northwoods Document) is not willing to kill it's own people in a false-flag attack.

Can you make out your own contradiction here?



After you have been suggesting all along that they-

"went out of their way to insure they didn't kill any of their own people"

Going out of your way for someone suggests concern, hence "care" for someone.
But now you post that you don't mean that?! WTF are you smoking?

The whole idea behind the plan is to cause a war where American military personnel would certainly get killed.
Hint, American military personnel IS their own people dip shit!

Northwoods recognized that the best justification for attacking Cuba was to trick Cuba into attacking U.S. forces first here are a few incidents where US personnel would be killed-
"1. Since it would seem desirable to use legitimate [sic!] provocation as the basis for US military intervention in Cuba, a cover and deception plan, to include requisite preliminary actions such as has been developed in response to Task 33 o [this may be a 'c'] could be executed as an initial effort to provoke Cuban reactions. Harassment plus deceptive actions to convince the Cubans of imminent invasion would be emphasized. Our military posture throughout execution of the plan will allow a rapid change from exercise to intervention if Cuban response justifies."


"3. A "Remember the Maine" incident could be arranged in several forms:
a. We could blow up a US ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba."

There were additional plans for the staging of violent incidents which are not included in the Northwoods document:
"3. It is understood that the Department of State also is preparing suggested courses of action to develop justification for US military intervention in Cuba."

So what I think you are saying is that if no one actually were to die in the commission of the actual false flag attack, even though the plan and execution of the attack ends up killing thousands of American military personnel and innocent civilians on the target nation, in the US response and War it is specifically designed to achieve... this is somehow OK and you can justify this sort of plan and actions,
Because this is exactly what you are defending?

Northwoods: A Plan for Terror to Justify War

I don't know what I have to do to make you understand the nonsense that your posting. I never said that a false-flag attack had to be fake. You're putting words in my posts. I SAID THAT THE DOCUMENT GIVES THE OPTION OF THE "INCIDENT" TO BE FAKE. ON TOP OF THAT, THE DOCUMENT EXPLAINS HOW TO CARRY OUT THE "INCIDENT" SO THAT OUR OWN CITIZENS ARE NOT HARMED IN THE INCIDENT ITSELF... YOU KNOW, KIND OF THE OPPOSITE YOU'RE ACCUSING THEM ON SEPT. 11. UNTIL YOU FIND A DOCUMENT THAT ACTUALLY SAYS LET'S BLOW UP AN ACTUAL GROUP OF COLLEGE STUDENTS, YOU HAVE NOTHING.

YOU used the Northwoods Document to back up your accusation that the U.S. was, in some way, behind the Setp. 11 attaks.... you know...where 3,000 of our own citizens died in the attack itself (NOT A WAR). You claimed it was proof that that the U.S. was willing to harm its own citizens. You said nothing of the casualties involved in an ensuing war in your original post where you posted the link for the document. You MEANT that the Sept. 11 attacks was either created or allowed by the government as a false-flag attack and you posted the document to prove your point.

I'm telling you that the Northwoods Document DOES NOT prove that the government was behind the Sept. 11 attacks and DOES NOT prove that the government is willing to harm its own civilians in a false flag attack. Granted they were willing to harm a boat load of Cubans, but that is not equivalnt to 3,000 of our own civilians. An ensuing war is neither here nor there....we're talking about the SEPT 11 ATTACKS.

 

[BrianH]

You still don't get it? I rest my case anyway on the basis of my last response to you, if you think they are so benevolent, and care so much about innocent lives, you are sorely mistaken.

You think it, and suggest as much, as evidenced by what you say in your last sentence of this very post that I highlight below for you.

You most certainly did not, as I have already shown you many times already, fool. No where in the history of the US has a false flag attack NOT ended up killing Americans! The act itself leads to massive deaths, as it is designed to cause a war..you know where people die?!

Do you think that blowing up a drone aircraft with no one inside of it, that is blamed on another nation, and leads to war where innocent unknowing Americans die, is NOT killing your own people??
Are you that stupid and or stubborn to still pursue this asinine train of thought and irrational argument?
Give it up, drone or not, it leads to the killing of our own people, in a war based on fucking lies. They would sacrifice the lives of their own people, by conducting a false flag attack, the proof is in the Doc.

that the U.S. (according to the text in the Northwoods Document) is not willing to kill it's own people in a false-flag attack.

Can you make out your own contradiction here?



After you have been suggesting all along that they-

"went out of their way to insure they didn't kill any of their own people"

Going out of your way for someone suggests concern, hence "care" for someone.
But now you post that you don't mean that?! WTF are you smoking?

The whole idea behind the plan is to cause a war where American military personnel would certainly get killed.
Hint, American military personnel IS their own people dip shit!

Northwoods recognized that the best justification for attacking Cuba was to trick Cuba into attacking U.S. forces first here are a few incidents where US personnel would be killed-
"1. Since it would seem desirable to use legitimate [sic!] provocation as the basis for US military intervention in Cuba, a cover and deception plan, to include requisite preliminary actions such as has been developed in response to Task 33 o [this may be a 'c'] could be executed as an initial effort to provoke Cuban reactions. Harassment plus deceptive actions to convince the Cubans of imminent invasion would be emphasized. Our military posture throughout execution of the plan will allow a rapid change from exercise to intervention if Cuban response justifies."


"3. A "Remember the Maine" incident could be arranged in several forms:
a. We could blow up a US ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba."

There were additional plans for the staging of violent incidents which are not included in the Northwoods document:
"3. It is understood that the Department of State also is preparing suggested courses of action to develop justification for US military intervention in Cuba."

So what I think you are saying is that if no one actually were to die in the commission of the actual false flag attack, even though the plan and execution of the attack ends up killing thousands of American military personnel and innocent civilians on the target nation, in the US response and War it is specifically designed to achieve... this is somehow OK and you can justify this sort of plan and actions,
Because this is exactly what you are defending?
Northwoods: A Plan for Terror to Justify War

Oh my God... NO. That's the problem when you argue with you frickin knee-jerk emotions instead of realizing what you did. I have not claimed that the U.S. is not willing to commit false flag attacks. I have not claimed that the U.S. cares so much about the lives of its citizens. I have not claimed that no one would die in ensuing wars. Once again, you used this document as proof that the U.S. would have had no problem whatsoever murdering 3,000 civilians on Sept. 11. Ths document DOES NOT prove that...nor does it even hint that the U.S. would kill even ONE of it's own people. This is EVIDENT in the scenario where ONE pilot would land his aircraft while a droned replica would be shot down instead. IF the government had no problem killing any of our civilians in a false-flag attack, why would they go to such lengths to ensure the safety of one SOLDIER?

Let me ask you this dumb-shit. And quit bouncing around the issue like a pogo-stick.

Are you considering Sept. 11th to be a false-flag attack either created or allowed by our own government?

If yes, you posted that Document to prove the point out that the government was willing to kill its own civilians IN AN ATTACK... The post said nothing of an ensuring war an eventual casualites.

What you're failing to distinguish is that YES, it's obvious the government is willing to get involved in a war under false pretenses. Yes, anyone over the age of 5 knows that people die in war, thus, casualties in an ensuing war is frickin obvious...like I told you earlier. HOWEVER, based on the document that you posted, there is ZERO corrolation between the September 11th attacks and the Northwoods Operations. On top of that, the Northwoods Document DOES NOT prove that the government is willing to kill it's own civilians IN A FALSE-FLAG ATTACK. If you read the full document instead of stopping at the first sentence on each scenario, you would see that they go through more than enough bull-shit to make sure none of our people get hurt in false-flag operations. By continuing to ignore the rest of the document, you're demonstrating how much of an artard you are. Haven't you started to wonder yet why Eots hasn't posted in your defense? He's posted the definition of false-flag attack, and he's posted shit towards candycorn because he doesn't like him. He has, however, not come to your rescue because he knows you're full of shit. '

Let me be clear for the feeble-minded... . The document you posted DOES NOT PROVE that the government would either commit or allow the September 11th attacks.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

"I don't know what I have to do to make you understand the nonsense that your posting."

Find the error in this statement, and you will find all of your questions answers.

 

[BrianH]

"I don't know what I have to do to make you understand the nonsense that your posting."

Find the error in this statement, and you will find all of your questions answers.

No error. My point is that HE doesn't even know what he's posting.So I said I don't know what I have to do to make him see HIS errors in his own posts. I'll spare you the examples as I've posted them over and over again on this thread.

 

[Gamolon]

"I don't know what I have to do to make you understand the nonsense that your posting."

Find the error in this statement, and you will find all of your questions answers.

No error. My point is that HE doesn't even know what he's posting.So I said I don't know what I have to do to make him see HIS errors in his own posts. I'll spare you the examples as I've posted them over and over again on this thread.

These are the same idiots who:

1. Compared the twin towers design to a muffler.
2. Compared WTC7's design to a human skull.
3. Say that structural engineers have ALWAYS designed steel structures to compensate for thermal expansion due to office fires.

These are just a few of their wondrous claims. We can post all the evidence that we want, yet they keep repeating stupidity.

 

[BrianH]

"I don't know what I have to do to make you understand the nonsense that your posting."

Find the error in this statement, and you will find all of your questions answers.

No error. My point is that HE doesn't even know what he's posting.So I said I don't know what I have to do to make him see HIS errors in his own posts. I'll spare you the examples as I've posted them over and over again on this thread.

These are the same idiots who:

1. Compared the twin towers design to a muffler.
2. Compared WTC7's design to a human skull.
3. Say that structural engineers have ALWAYS designed steel structures to compensate for thermal expansion due to office fires.

These are just a few of their wondrous claims. We can post all the evidence that we want, yet they keep repeating stupidity.

I know. It's like a train wreck though. I can't wait to see what kind of bull shit they'll post next. There must be some kind of magical formula they use to get from their "evidence" to their conclusion.

 

[Mr. Jones]

How someone can try to explain away an act that would lead to innocent deaths including Americans, is beyond explanation.

False flags attack are designed to provoke a response, and a war. This leads to casualties and deaths. Short of a deliberate suicide plan, any military attack planned would try to minimize casualties, everyone knows this, however they always know that does not work out as planned, as they are aware of "collateral" damage and there are always Americans deaths involved.
What make you think the NWs plan would be any different?
Because they would use a drone, and try to minimize the deaths of the black op agents involved?

There are many instance in the DOC that would put Americans in a position to be killed, read the doc again.

There would have been many many Americans and Cubans involved that would not know the plan was being staged, would use their training to defend themselves, and you would surely have deaths as a result. To think otherwise is really either naive, or you are being disingenuous.
It is an attempt to ignore the bigger picture, and the overall intent and outcome of such a plan, which is a response and a war.
The NWDs doc. proves that American military leaders have the capabilities to plan a conspiracy, that resembles what many people think 9-11 was.
Bottom line is that a false flag attack leads to the deaths of innocent people including Americans, based on lies period, and they were willing to to do it.