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You've totally missed the point of this thread,
Which large segments are harmed by NAFTA?
Working class Americans.
I believe we still throw American Dollars into foreign countries with the intent of propping up their economies. The idea being we can win them over with love better than with our military after they have a communist or worse revolution.
Marshall Plan - Wikipedia
There is a limit to this and I would like to be looked in the face as an adult and told when we were doing it though.
That was part of the argument for Free Trade.
But the Cold War is over, and Working Class Americans have been making that sacrifice for far too long.
Time to shit can that policy.
The Cold War might be over....Wait, "over" is too strong of a term. We won an economic victory in the Cold War and Russia has not recovered. I dunno if they are neutral towards us yet.....man, I'd rather have Putin own Afghanistan than the Taliban again.... Its an uneasy relationship at best with us and Russia.
Lets just say our enemies have shifted.
There is truth we are fighting Islamic fanatics. There is truth we want capitalism to reign supreme in India where 1.3 billion, (BILLION!) potential Muslims live. It will be easier to keep them Hindi with our dollars than our soldiers even if it means outsourcing IT jobs.
We are in a cold hard competition with our new Chinese authoritarian Capitalist like trading partners. Intentional, good, bad, or whatever our dollars flowing into China and helping them build stealth aircraft have also softened that country from the one we "lost" to communism when the dominoes started to fall on Industrial Unregulated Capitalism (IUC, my term).
Then don't forget we gotta keep Mexico from going "Cuba" on us. We have to make capitalism look good there. Otherwise they'll be throwing the exploiters out and having their own 60 year Communist or worse rule. I say "have to" because we don't really want to be guarding a border with Mexico when we could have our troops stationed elsewhere. Mexico is a nice under-developed country to exploit a bit when we need to and I'd rather have a happy capitalistic Mexico to visit than one ran by drug cartels....Chinese capitalism might do them some good, but we don't want a good looking big government country right to our south....
The rambling shows why I think we let these mini-Marshall Plans go on.
I'd rather have India go marxist than have another China sized hole in our trade balance.
I rather have a strong enemy in Mexico, than a weak "friend" that is migrating it's population north.
I don't agree on tariffs per se. Free trade benefits consumers, and a protective tariff ought to be used to punish the business which leaves our shores to exploit labor. Think of it as a sanction, and if the need exists here, it will benefit those businesses and their stock holders who remain.
Those businesses who remain, will be competing against foreign businesses that are paying a fraction of their labor and with less environmental and safety regulations.
We've seen the outcome of that.
Hell, we see what happens when we try to compete against other First World nations, with "Free Trade".
This model is not working for US.
You seem unable to grasp a simple concept. Either your biases bet in the way or you are too stubborn to ever admit when you are wrong.
Point in fact:
"I don't agree on tariffs per se. Free trade benefits consumers, and a protective tariff ought to be used to punish the business which leave our shores to exploit labor."
What Trump is doing is insane. It is pure Brinkmanship and China will not blink. Trump already has on steel and aluminum.
YOu want to punish American businessmen who move manufacturing offshore, and thus, sort of "Reward" those that stay.
Presumably this is an tacit admission that loss of manufacturing jobs is a harm to our society and people.
You support using tariffs for that, against US businesses.
BUT, you are against using tariffs against foreign manufacturers who use cheap labor and/or protectionists trade policy to do cause loss of manufacturing jobs to our economy though unfair competition.
We are already in a Trade War. We just have not been fighting back, for generations.
You believe Trump, that is your biggest mistake. Of course you are always on the wrong side of reason, and that must be an accident of birth.
You started this thread in the Clean Debate Zone.
I made a valid point about your position on tariffs.
You completely failed to address it.
INstead your response consisted on nothing but a non sequitur and a personal attack.
This can only be seen as a complete intellectual collapse of your argument.
My post thus stands as the last word.
YOu want to punish American businessmen who move manufacturing offshore, and thus, sort of "Reward" those that stay.
Presumably this is an tacit admission that loss of manufacturing jobs is a harm to our society and people.
You support using tariffs for that, against US businesses.
BUT, you are against using tariffs against foreign manufacturers who use cheap labor and/or protectionists trade policy to do cause loss of manufacturing jobs to our economy though unfair competition.
We are already in a Trade War. We just have not been fighting back, for generations.
Working class Americans.
I believe we still throw American Dollars into foreign countries with the intent of propping up their economies. The idea being we can win them over with love better than with our military after they have a communist or worse revolution.
Marshall Plan - Wikipedia
There is a limit to this and I would like to be looked in the face as an adult and told when we were doing it though.
That was part of the argument for Free Trade.
But the Cold War is over, and Working Class Americans have been making that sacrifice for far too long.
Time to shit can that policy.
The Cold War might be over....Wait, "over" is too strong of a term. We won an economic victory in the Cold War and Russia has not recovered. I dunno if they are neutral towards us yet.....man, I'd rather have Putin own Afghanistan than the Taliban again.... Its an uneasy relationship at best with us and Russia.
Lets just say our enemies have shifted.
There is truth we are fighting Islamic fanatics. There is truth we want capitalism to reign supreme in India where 1.3 billion, (BILLION!) potential Muslims live. It will be easier to keep them Hindi with our dollars than our soldiers even if it means outsourcing IT jobs.
We are in a cold hard competition with our new Chinese authoritarian Capitalist like trading partners. Intentional, good, bad, or whatever our dollars flowing into China and helping them build stealth aircraft have also softened that country from the one we "lost" to communism when the dominoes started to fall on Industrial Unregulated Capitalism (IUC, my term).
Then don't forget we gotta keep Mexico from going "Cuba" on us. We have to make capitalism look good there. Otherwise they'll be throwing the exploiters out and having their own 60 year Communist or worse rule. I say "have to" because we don't really want to be guarding a border with Mexico when we could have our troops stationed elsewhere. Mexico is a nice under-developed country to exploit a bit when we need to and I'd rather have a happy capitalistic Mexico to visit than one ran by drug cartels....Chinese capitalism might do them some good, but we don't want a good looking big government country right to our south....
The rambling shows why I think we let these mini-Marshall Plans go on.
I'd rather have India go marxist than have another China sized hole in our trade balance.
I rather have a strong enemy in Mexico, than a weak "friend" that is migrating it's population north.
I'll disagree. I'm thrilled not to have a border to send my children to legitimately guard against a "strong" enemy Mexico. That would tie up troops from our war on terror and drive up our debt.
Not to mention I generally think its better to have more democratic capitalist countries in the world.
Those businesses who remain, will be competing against foreign businesses that are paying a fraction of their labor and with less environmental and safety regulations.
We've seen the outcome of that.
Hell, we see what happens when we try to compete against other First World nations, with "Free Trade".
This model is not working for US.
You seem unable to grasp a simple concept. Either your biases bet in the way or you are too stubborn to ever admit when you are wrong.
Point in fact:
"I don't agree on tariffs per se. Free trade benefits consumers, and a protective tariff ought to be used to punish the business which leave our shores to exploit labor."
What Trump is doing is insane. It is pure Brinkmanship and China will not blink. Trump already has on steel and aluminum.
YOu want to punish American businessmen who move manufacturing offshore, and thus, sort of "Reward" those that stay.
Presumably this is an tacit admission that loss of manufacturing jobs is a harm to our society and people.
You support using tariffs for that, against US businesses.
BUT, you are against using tariffs against foreign manufacturers who use cheap labor and/or protectionists trade policy to do cause loss of manufacturing jobs to our economy though unfair competition.
We are already in a Trade War. We just have not been fighting back, for generations.
You believe Trump, that is your biggest mistake. Of course you are always on the wrong side of reason, and that must be an accident of birth.
You started this thread in the Clean Debate Zone.
I made a valid point about your position on tariffs.
You completely failed to address it.
INstead your response consisted on nothing but a non sequitur and a personal attack.
This can only be seen as a complete intellectual collapse of your argument.
My post thus stands as the last word.
YOu want to punish American businessmen who move manufacturing offshore, and thus, sort of "Reward" those that stay.
Presumably this is an tacit admission that loss of manufacturing jobs is a harm to our society and people.
You support using tariffs for that, against US businesses.
BUT, you are against using tariffs against foreign manufacturers who use cheap labor and/or protectionists trade policy to do cause loss of manufacturing jobs to our economy though unfair competition.
We are already in a Trade War. We just have not been fighting back, for generations.
I asked you half a dozen times to stay on topic, and you never did. Now you claim I violated the rule of the CZ, well, tough shit, when I'm faced with an asshole like you, I eventually dropped to your level in the gutter.
That and temporary work visasMoney would be better spent by creating an enterprise zone along the border, from Texas to California. A zone which employed Mexicans and Americans to create, build, maintain and promote commerce and trade at a lesser cost to the Americas.
Solar energy, used to create electrical power to widen the Rio Grande and the Tijuana Rivers, building a R.R. system connecting the two, and providing a means to move products, produce and people from the east to the west, and the west to the east, without using the Panama Canal.
Lots of jobs would be created in construction, technology, farming, tourism and recreation. A win-win Food for thought.
We put men on the moon, nearly a half century ago, since that time we have spent billions (trillions?) on wars and building the tools of war. It seems this vision is not nearly as improbable as men walking on the moon!
That and temporary work visasMoney would be better spent by creating an enterprise zone along the border, from Texas to California. A zone which employed Mexicans and Americans to create, build, maintain and promote commerce and trade at a lesser cost to the Americas.
Solar energy, used to create electrical power to widen the Rio Grande and the Tijuana Rivers, building a R.R. system connecting the two, and providing a means to move products, produce and people from the east to the west, and the west to the east, without using the Panama Canal.
Lots of jobs would be created in construction, technology, farming, tourism and recreation. A win-win Food for thought.
We put men on the moon, nearly a half century ago, since that time we have spent billions (trillions?) on wars and building the tools of war. It seems this vision is not nearly as improbable as men walking on the moon!
Save us a lot of money
That and temporary work visasMoney would be better spent by creating an enterprise zone along the border, from Texas to California. A zone which employed Mexicans and Americans to create, build, maintain and promote commerce and trade at a lesser cost to the Americas.
Solar energy, used to create electrical power to widen the Rio Grande and the Tijuana Rivers, building a R.R. system connecting the two, and providing a means to move products, produce and people from the east to the west, and the west to the east, without using the Panama Canal.
Lots of jobs would be created in construction, technology, farming, tourism and recreation. A win-win Food for thought.
We put men on the moon, nearly a half century ago, since that time we have spent billions (trillions?) on wars and building the tools of war. It seems this vision is not nearly as improbable as men walking on the moon!
Save us a lot of money
And cost US a lot of jobs.
Why the lack of concern for the American working man?
That and temporary work visasMoney would be better spent by creating an enterprise zone along the border, from Texas to California. A zone which employed Mexicans and Americans to create, build, maintain and promote commerce and trade at a lesser cost to the Americas.
Solar energy, used to create electrical power to widen the Rio Grande and the Tijuana Rivers, building a R.R. system connecting the two, and providing a means to move products, produce and people from the east to the west, and the west to the east, without using the Panama Canal.
Lots of jobs would be created in construction, technology, farming, tourism and recreation. A win-win Food for thought.
We put men on the moon, nearly a half century ago, since that time we have spent billions (trillions?) on wars and building the tools of war. It seems this vision is not nearly as improbable as men walking on the moon!
Save us a lot of money
And cost US a lot of jobs.
Why the lack of concern for the American working man?
Why don't you open your eyes to the OP? It is all about jobs, construction jobs, jobs for mariners, jobs for farmers, jobs for technology and jobs for security. You're so stuck on Trump's bullshit you can't think out of the box.
