Trump, the GOP and 2018

[iceberg]

i'm more concerned at the the precedence we set if we stomp our foot and toss out elected officials cause hollywood hates them. cause liberals must have their way. and hell, just because "mob mentality".

Yeah, that's a good point. A dangerous precedent. My personal nightmare scenario is playing out in real time: Trump is in such trouble so quickly that the Democrat party won't even NEED to go through its badly-needed Reformation. The Regressive Left is now waiting in the wings, licking its chops.

But whether I'm right or wrong, we're talking about professional politicians here. Trump either helps their re-election chances or hurts them, and that's their primary calculus.
.

I'm not convinced what's happening will actually help Dimocrats. I'm betting a lot of Republicans are now more furious than ever for the non-stop anti-Trump barrage by the Dims and their media cohorts.

i don't like trump. not much at all. but i HATE what is being done to him by a bunch of emotional kids who demand he curbs his behavior while they run amok.

BUT BUT BUT HE'S PRESIDENT!!!

don't give a shit. we're all responsible for our own actions.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Doing the math:

Democrats have 20+ seats to defend in the Senate and would have to win in red to purple districts in the House, so I say it would take a miracle even with Trump as President for the Democrats to steal back the Senate and win the House.

The only way it happen is if GOP voters stay home or you have one of those odd moments where more Democratic voters head to the poll which in both cases I doubt seeing it is a non-Presidential election year.

Best case for the Democrats is hold their seats and wait for 2020 to pounce on the wonded GOP but if they run Warren then it will be another long election year!

 

[JoeB131]

I'm not convinced what's happening will actually help Dimocrats. I'm betting a lot of Republicans are now more furious than ever for the non-stop anti-Trump barrage by the Dims and their media cohorts.

Well, if you want to believe that, you can.

Reality is, even Republicans are talking impeachment now.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Bottom line, for democracy to survive and thrive you need to believe in and fully support free and fair elections. You also need Rule of Law, Due Process and freedoms. The GOP should be supporting Trump, and in fact the Democrats should be supporting Trump openly based on the above statements. "He was elected by the American people". Doesn't matter who it is. You can argue about policies and be enraged with his actions, but you respect the choice of the people. Instead it's been hyper-partisanship.

I didn't like Sanders policies, I think he is naive and not balanced in how he perceives socialism, yet, I believe in a free and fair primary with the Democrats he would have been the winner. I've not hidden my disdain for socialism and quasi-communism, but everyone should accept the Will of the people.. Going further in regards to Sanders popularity, I have said from day one he probably would have beaten Trump if he were the Democratic choice in 2016. So, if the GOP don't support this more economic laissez-faire president, if he has not done wrong, they can expect to get a Democratic party with a large number who are in the mold of Sanders. Trump supporters in the rust belt and who used to vote Democratic will return to the Democrats in droves if Trump is ousted. The country will return to where it was when Obama left office, and all that Conservatives hated will return, but worse.

This isn't a time to grandstand or be a hero, this is a time to say "we are just the administration, the voters decide the leaders in this country". You can never go wrong with this approach. Even our former PM Harper after he lost the last election stated "the voters are never wrong". Now if he colluded and broke the law, and it is transparent and evidence is clearly shown, then yes, the GOP and the administration have to proceed accordingly. Otherwise, this is a very dangerous game that could bring socialism right to the forefront of American politics and the liberty of individuals will be lost.

Facts not politics.

 

[JoeB131]

The only way it happen is if GOP voters stay home or you have one of those odd moments where more Democratic voters head to the poll which in both cases I doubt seeing it is a non-Presidential election year.

Actually, historically, the party out of white house usually has more people show up in midterm years.

The President's party almost always looses seats in midterms.

When you are talking about one as deeply unpopular as Trump is, it's going to be a bloodbath for the GOP.

Best case for the Democrats is hold their seats and wait for 2020 to pounce on the wonded GOP but if they run Warren then it will be another long election year...l

Here's the thing. I don't think so. The only reason why Trump "won" (not really) was because people disliked Hillary Clinton on a personal level. If Bernie Sanders had been the Democratic nominee, he'd have beaten Trump.

The scariest thing about 2016 was that the GOP nominated a Nazi and the Democrats almost nominated a Communist, and too many people were all too cool with that.

It shows that the people are getting tired of democracy and its inefficiencies.

The fact that Trump is only about four months in and already his presidency can be classified as 'Failed", isn't going to help that.

Now, hopefully the Democrats will nominate someone sensible and moderate to go up against President Pence after Trump is removed from office, but I wouldn't put good money on it.

 

[JoeB131]

Bottom line, for democracy to survive and thrive you need to believe in and fully support free and fair elections. You also need Rule of Law, Due Process and freedoms. The GOP should be supporting Trump, and in fact the Democrats should be supporting Trump openly based on the above statements. "He was elected by the American people". Doesn't matter who it is. You can argue about policies and be enraged with his actions, but you respect the choice of the people. Instead it's been hyper-partisanship.

The problem is, Trump wasn't elected by the American people. He lost by 3 million votes.

He was elected by an archaic system established 200 years ago by Slave-raping assholes who didn't trust the people.

Now, here's the thing. Richard Nixon WAS elected by the people. Pretty overwhelmingly, getting 60% of the vote and winning 49 states. Yet when it was clear that he had broken the law and abused his power and obstructed justice, he had to go.

What Trump did was a lot worse than what Nixon did, and Nixon was far better president than Trump will ever be.

 

[Mac1958]

Otherwise, this is a very dangerous game that could bring socialism right to the forefront of American politics and the liberty of individuals will be lost.

The problem for Trump and his fans is, they asked for this.

They cheer Trump when he's the bull in the china shop, when he insults the very media that presents him to the public, when he says and "tweets" things that would embarrass most reasonable adults, when he acts like a spoiled 15-year old kid. They love it. They call this behavior "bluntness", even though it doesn't rise to that level.

Meanwhile, the Regressive Left is loving every minute of it, waiting in the wings, knowing that it probably won't need to change one damn thing about the way it behaves.

If what you warn against comes to fruition, Trump and his fans will be complicit.
.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Bottom line, for democracy to survive and thrive you need to believe in and fully support free and fair elections. You also need Rule of Law, Due Process and freedoms. The GOP should be supporting Trump, and in fact the Democrats should be supporting Trump openly based on the above statements. "He was elected by the American people". Doesn't matter who it is. You can argue about policies and be enraged with his actions, but you respect the choice of the people. Instead it's been hyper-partisanship.

The problem is, Trump wasn't elected by the American people. He lost by 3 million votes.

He was elected by an archaic system established 200 years ago by Slave-raping assholes who didn't trust the people.

Now, here's the thing. Richard Nixon WAS elected by the people. Pretty overwhelmingly, getting 60% of the vote and winning 49 states. Yet when it was clear that he had broken the law and abused his power and obstructed justice, he had to go.

What Trump did was a lot worse than what Nixon did, and Nixon was far better president than Trump will ever be.

If not for this system, California and New York will determine the direction of the entire country every year. If you want to see big problems in the union, that would be a very easy way to see states unhappy. Even with the EC the Democrats have a major advantage. You can't change the rules as you go. Like Clinton suggested "if the election were held on October 26th I win the election".

The Democrats were a different party in the past, the current rendition is not appealing. As an example, if it were, they would have ordered a Special Prosecutor deal with Clintons scandal while they were in power. Their party has changed dramatically in my lifetime, and not for the better. I would love to see them return to a more centralist party rather than the number of far left they have in their ranks.

 

[JoeB131]

Meanwhile, the Regressive Left is loving every minute of it, waiting in the wings, knowing that it probably won't need to change one damn thing about the way it behaves.

Ooohhh, the "Regressive Left"... are they hanging out with the PC Police?

Of course, the left doesn't have to change. All they have to do is wait for angry old white people to die off.

They cheer Trump when he's the bull in the china shop, when he insults the very media that presents him to the public, when he says and "tweets" things that would embarrass most reasonable adults, when he acts like a spoiled 15-year old kid. They love it. They call this behavior "bluntness", even though it doesn't rise to that level.

Again, Trump isn't as popular as you think he is. He got the exact same amount of the vote as McCain and Romney got. The only difference is,enough people pissed away their votes on third party candidates so he could win.

A chimp in a suit would have won 46 % of the vote and most of those same Red States.

The reality is, the GOP will turn on Trump, but only when his approval ratings dip below 30%. Not that this will save them in 2018 or 2020.

 

[iceberg]

Otherwise, this is a very dangerous game that could bring socialism right to the forefront of American politics and the liberty of individuals will be lost.

The problem for Trump and his fans is, they asked for this.

They cheer Trump when he's the bull in the china shop, when he insults the very media that presents him to the public, when he says and "tweets" things that would embarrass most reasonable adults, when he acts like a spoiled 15-year old kid. They love it. They call this behavior "bluntness", even though it doesn't rise to that level.

Meanwhile, the Regressive Left is loving every minute of it, waiting in the wings, knowing that it probably won't need to change one damn thing about the way it behaves.

If what you warn against comes to fruition, Trump and his fans will be complicit.
.

i think it's more they accepted the bad with the good and it wasn't hillary.

and i don't know too many people who love his bullshit. the last few times i've seen him give speeches the applause was smattering at best and you could see the hurt look on his face.

like i said - he craves attention. quit giving it to him and he's likely to just leave and go elsewhere.

as for the left - they're 100% feeding the machine of hate. i don't believe for a minute they're waiting for trump to do himself in through all this. they're having the time of their life protesting for what is "real" even though they don't know what it is.

 

[iceberg]

Bottom line, for democracy to survive and thrive you need to believe in and fully support free and fair elections. You also need Rule of Law, Due Process and freedoms. The GOP should be supporting Trump, and in fact the Democrats should be supporting Trump openly based on the above statements. "He was elected by the American people". Doesn't matter who it is. You can argue about policies and be enraged with his actions, but you respect the choice of the people. Instead it's been hyper-partisanship.

The problem is, Trump wasn't elected by the American people. He lost by 3 million votes.

He was elected by an archaic system established 200 years ago by Slave-raping assholes who didn't trust the people.

Now, here's the thing. Richard Nixon WAS elected by the people. Pretty overwhelmingly, getting 60% of the vote and winning 49 states. Yet when it was clear that he had broken the law and abused his power and obstructed justice, he had to go.

What Trump did was a lot worse than what Nixon did, and Nixon was far better president than Trump will ever be.

If not for this system, California and New York will determine the direction of the entire country every year. If you want to see big problems in the union, that would be a very easy way to see states unhappy. Even with the EC the Democrats have a major advantage. You can't change the rules as you go. Like Clinton suggested "if the election were held on October 26th I win the election".

The Democrats were a different party in the past, the current rendition is not appealing. As an example, if it were, they would have ordered a Special Prosecutor deal with Clintons scandal while they were in power. Their party has changed dramatically in my lifetime, and not for the better. I would love to see them return to a more centralist party rather than the number of far left they have in their ranks.

good post - but i don't think either party is very appealing nor represents the bulk of americans on either side. my brother is more liberal than i am but even we have lines we don't cross and respect for both sides.

the extremes today simply don't give a shit about "the other side". they are the enemy.

we were doing that before trump won.

 

[JoeB131]

If not for this system, California and New York will determine the direction of the entire country every year. If you want to see big problems in the union, that would be a very easy way to see states unhappy. Even with the EC the Democrats have a major advantage. You can't change the rules as you go. Like Clinton suggested "if the election were held on October 26th I win the election".

It's a dumb statement.

Population of the US- 308 million.

Population of CA and NY combined - 59 Million.

Even if EVERY LAST PERSON in those two states voted one way, the 250 million people in the other states would still have more votes.

The thing about the EC is that it allows only about six states to decide elections. And these aren't the states where most people live.

Also, it produces some truly shitty presidents like Trump, Bush, Hayes

 

[Mac1958]

Otherwise, this is a very dangerous game that could bring socialism right to the forefront of American politics and the liberty of individuals will be lost.

The problem for Trump and his fans is, they asked for this.

They cheer Trump when he's the bull in the china shop, when he insults the very media that presents him to the public, when he says and "tweets" things that would embarrass most reasonable adults, when he acts like a spoiled 15-year old kid. They love it. They call this behavior "bluntness", even though it doesn't rise to that level.

Meanwhile, the Regressive Left is loving every minute of it, waiting in the wings, knowing that it probably won't need to change one damn thing about the way it behaves.

If what you warn against comes to fruition, Trump and his fans will be complicit.
.

i think it's more they accepted the bad with the good and it wasn't hillary.

and i don't know too many people who love his bullshit. the last few times i've seen him give speeches the applause was smattering at best and you could see the hurt look on his face.

like i said - he craves attention. quit giving it to him and he's likely to just leave and go elsewhere.

as for the left - they're 100% feeding the machine of hate. i don't believe for a minute they're waiting for trump to do himself in through all this. they're having the time of their life protesting for what is "real" even though they don't know what it is.

If that's the case, if they really don't like his behaviors, then they're just lying. Look around this board and you'll see a zillion examples of it. Say something about his behavior and they go OFF. That's partisan politics, dishonest to its core.

Sure, the Left is loving this, they want as much destruction as possible, as soon as possible. And Trump isn't disappointing them.
.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Otherwise, this is a very dangerous game that could bring socialism right to the forefront of American politics and the liberty of individuals will be lost.

The problem for Trump and his fans is, they asked for this.

They cheer Trump when he's the bull in the china shop, when he insults the very media that presents him to the public, when he says and "tweets" things that would embarrass most reasonable adults, when he acts like a spoiled 15-year old kid. They love it. They call this behavior "bluntness", even though it doesn't rise to that level.

Meanwhile, the Regressive Left is loving every minute of it, waiting in the wings, knowing that it probably won't need to change one damn thing about the way it behaves.

If what you warn against comes to fruition, Trump and his fans will be complicit.
.

You suggest this because you have a non-politician who says offensive things and riles up his detractors? That is a far stretch from him being complicit in collusion with Russia.

You can't just say "hey, this guy is a real mean dude and so he doesn't deserve office". People who voted for him didn't like his demeanour and probably weren't particular happy with their choices. It was about change, drastic change, change that some are really fighting hard to prevent even post-election. I think everyone would like to see a more relaxed, diplomatic and serene Trump, but ultimately it is his fighting spirit that made him so popular.

If socialism leads the day it won't be because of Trump or his supporters, that you can be certain of.

 

[JoeB131]

The Democrats were a different party in the past, the current rendition is not appealing. As an example, if it were, they would have ordered a Special Prosecutor deal with Clintons scandal while they were in power. Their party has changed dramatically in my lifetime, and not for the better. I would love to see them return to a more centralist party rather than the number of far left they have in their ranks.

I think you are confused. Clinton DID have a special prosecutor when he was in office. His name was Ken Starr, he started off investigating a failed land deal, and when that didn't pan out, he ended up investigating whether or not Bill Clinton thinks a blow job counts as sex or not.

 

[iceberg]

Otherwise, this is a very dangerous game that could bring socialism right to the forefront of American politics and the liberty of individuals will be lost.

The problem for Trump and his fans is, they asked for this.

They cheer Trump when he's the bull in the china shop, when he insults the very media that presents him to the public, when he says and "tweets" things that would embarrass most reasonable adults, when he acts like a spoiled 15-year old kid. They love it. They call this behavior "bluntness", even though it doesn't rise to that level.

Meanwhile, the Regressive Left is loving every minute of it, waiting in the wings, knowing that it probably won't need to change one damn thing about the way it behaves.

If what you warn against comes to fruition, Trump and his fans will be complicit.
.

i think it's more they accepted the bad with the good and it wasn't hillary.

and i don't know too many people who love his bullshit. the last few times i've seen him give speeches the applause was smattering at best and you could see the hurt look on his face.

like i said - he craves attention. quit giving it to him and he's likely to just leave and go elsewhere.

as for the left - they're 100% feeding the machine of hate. i don't believe for a minute they're waiting for trump to do himself in through all this. they're having the time of their life protesting for what is "real" even though they don't know what it is.

If that's the case, if they really don't like his behaviors, then they're just lying. Look around this board and you'll see a zillion examples of it. Say something about his behavior and they go OFF. That's partisan politics, dishonest to its core.

Sure, the Left is loving this, they want as much destruction as possible, as soon as possible. And Trump isn't disappointing them.
.

oh i see the examples. i put those in the extremists on both sides. you see, i also look around and find you. oldlady and several others that while on the "other side" you work to put objectivity and respect to others in as much as your opinions. that's there too. you can't swing a dead cat in a rodeo w/o hitting some clown being an asswhipe.

that doesn't mean the world is full of clowns, just that they're loud and seem more than they are. in my few days here i just ignored anyone doing the "you're a pussy" shit right off the bat and i just don't see the noise as much.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

The only way it happen is if GOP voters stay home or you have one of those odd moments where more Democratic voters head to the poll which in both cases I doubt seeing it is a non-Presidential election year.

Actually, historically, the party out of white house usually has more people show up in midterm years.

The President's party almost always looses seats in midterms.

When you are talking about one as deeply unpopular as Trump is, it's going to be a bloodbath for the GOP.

Best case for the Democrats is hold their seats and wait for 2020 to pounce on the wonded GOP but if they run Warren then it will be another long election year...l

Here's the thing. I don't think so. The only reason why Trump "won" (not really) was because people disliked Hillary Clinton on a personal level. If Bernie Sanders had been the Democratic nominee, he'd have beaten Trump.

The scariest thing about 2016 was that the GOP nominated a Nazi and the Democrats almost nominated a Communist, and too many people were all too cool with that.

It shows that the people are getting tired of democracy and its inefficiencies.

The fact that Trump is only about four months in and already his presidency can be classified as 'Failed", isn't going to help that.

Now, hopefully the Democrats will nominate someone sensible and moderate to go up against President Pence after Trump is removed from office, but I wouldn't put good money on it.

Again Democrats have 20+ seats to defend in the Senate and the House is almost impossible for the Democrats to win with the way the districts are drawn.

Also please stop with the Nazi nonsense because as much as I hate Trump he is far from being a Nazi!

Because you and I disagree with his political views does not mean he is like Hitler and until he start gassing and baking minorities and gays, well he is far from being a damn Nazi!

Back when George W. Bush was President all the left could do is compare him to a Nazi, and I believe many on the left believe anyone that does not agree with them must be a Nazi and how pathetic is that?

Also let me add that Sanders is not Communist either and is a Socialist and yes I know the damn difference between Communistic States like the former USSR and Socialistic States like Norway and Sanders is more like the Norwegian system and far from Stalin or even Trotsky form of Marxism or Communism.

So please let stop with the communism nonsense and because idiots on the right do it does not mean those on the left should follow and act as ignorant!

 

[Mac1958]

If socialism leads the day it won't be because of Trump or his supporters, that you can be certain of.

As I said, the Trumpsters got what they wanted. If he's as wonderful as they think he is, you'll never have to worry about socialism.
.

 

[iceberg]

If socialism leads the day it won't be because of Trump or his supporters, that you can be certain of.

As I said, the Trumpsters got what they wanted. If he's as wonderful as they think he is, you'll never have to worry about socialism.
.

by the same token, if he's as horrible as people say, they wouldn't need to make things up on a regular basis and call it duty.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Meanwhile, the Regressive Left is loving every minute of it, waiting in the wings, knowing that it probably won't need to change one damn thing about the way it behaves.

Ooohhh, the "Regressive Left"... are they hanging out with the PC Police?

Of course, the left doesn't have to change. All they have to do is wait for angry old white people to die off.

They cheer Trump when he's the bull in the china shop, when he insults the very media that presents him to the public, when he says and "tweets" things that would embarrass most reasonable adults, when he acts like a spoiled 15-year old kid. They love it. They call this behavior "bluntness", even though it doesn't rise to that level.

Again, Trump isn't as popular as you think he is. He got the exact same amount of the vote as McCain and Romney got. The only difference is,enough people pissed away their votes on third party candidates so he could win.

A chimp in a suit would have won 46 % of the vote and most of those same Red States.

The reality is, the GOP will turn on Trump, but only when his approval ratings dip below 30%. Not that this will save them in 2018 or 2020.

Yeah that freedom of choice and pissing the vote away must annoy the hell out of you, am I correct?

Run someone that will attract the green to vote Democrat and let be really honest had Clinton not had that landslide victory in California she would have most likely lost the popular vote in a close race...