Trump screwed Up Iran Big Time. And now Iran will get a Nuke.

[Tom Paine 1949]

Show us the signed agreement. Ya know, the signatures on the actual agreement.

File:JCPOA Signatures.png - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Has anybody ever met such a stupid, lazy fool?

 

[Nostra]

File:JCPOA Signatures.png - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Has anybody ever met such a stupid, lazy fool?

Nice try.

Worst photoshop in history, Dumbass.

Show the actual document, not some dishittery from Wiki.

You do realize that John Kerry's own State Department put in writing that is was never signed by anyone, right?

 

[Nostra]

Should we believe some clown who posted a pic on Wiki, or John Kerry's own State Department?


Hmmmmmmm.....

State Department Affirms That Iran Deal Is Only a Political Commitment​

In a letter recently released by Representative Mike Pompeo (R-KS), the State Department emphasized that the Iran deal – the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) – is not binding under international law. The letter was in response to Pompeo’s inquiry about why the JCPOA transmitted to Congress lacked signatures. The State Department said, in part:

The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) is not a treaty or an executive agreement, and is not a signed document. The JCPOA reflects political commitments between Iran, the P5+1 (the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Russia, China) and the European Union. As you know, the United States has a long-standing practice of addressing sensitive problems in negotiations that culminate in political commitments.
The success of the JCPOA will depend not on whether it is legally binding or signed, but rather on the extensive verification measures we have put in place, as well as Iran’s understanding that we have the capacity to re-impose – and ramp up – our sanctions if Iran does not meet its commitments.

This is not a new development, though it is interesting to see the administration assert it so explicitly. Both Jack Goldsmith and John Bellinger (among others) made this clear when the deal was announced this summer. Jack noted that the deal was not a pure executive agreement but merely a political agreement, which “do[es] not create legally binding obligations, even if [it has] normative force in the political (or moral) context.” And, as John argued, while the UN Security Council Resolution (UNSCR) that implemented some of the terms of the JCPOA is binding under international law, the JCPOA itself is not. Nor does the UNSCR require the U.S. to lift domestic sanctions.

While this issue is not new, it has received some heightened scrutiny in the wake of multiple Republican presidential candidates vowing to repudiate the deal if elected. Marco Rubio, for example, said this very thing in September.

There are two related issues here. First, as noted above, as a political agreement the JCPOA is not binding under international law. The second issue is whether the commitments made in the JCPOA are binding under domestic law. An article in the Atlantic flatly asserted Rubio was wrong, equating the Iran deal to congressionally authorized executive agreements such as the International Monetary Fund, World Bank, NAFTA, and World Trade Organization.

But the JCPOA is not such an agreement, as the State Department’s letter makes clear. It is only a political commitment.

State Department Affirms That Iran Deal Is Only a Political Commitment

In a letter recently released by Representative Mike Pompeo (R-KS), the State Department emphasized that the Iran deal – the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) – is not binding under international law. The letter was in response to Pompeo’s inquiry about why the JCPOA transmitted to...

www.lawfareblog.com

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Still a stupid lazy fool!

 

[Nostra]

Still a stupid lazy fool!

Explain why John Kerry's own State Department is on record saying it isn't a signed document, Wikiboi?

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Not explaining anything to a lying fool like you. But maybe for others when I have time …

 

[Nostra]

Not explaining anything to a fool like you. But maybe for others when I have time …

There is a reason you can't explain your lies.

Because the are LIES, Dipshit.

Run along, kid.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

You run along, fool….

Keep believing those signatures are fake, that I was wrong to write:

“It was an agreement signed by Russia and China and supported by all the great European powers, too.”

You are simply … a jerk.

 

[Nostra]

You run along, fool….

Keep believing those signatures are fake, that I was wrong to write:

“It was an agreement signed by Russia and China and supported by all the great European powers, too.”

You are simply … a jerk.

John Kerry's State Department says your Wiki link is full of shit, and so are you.

They admit in writing that nobody signed Barry's so-called deal with Iran.

Sorry those facts have you so butthurt. You can all me a jerk all you want, makes no difference to me since the facts are on my side.

Next?

 

[surada]

Nice try.

Worst photoshop in history, Dumbass.

Show the actual document, not some dishittery from Wiki.

You do realize that John Kerry's own State Department put in writing that is was never signed by anyone, right?

John Kerry's State Department says your Wiki link is full of shit, and so are you.

They admit in writing that nobody signed Barry's so-called deal with Iran.

Sorry those facts have you so butthurt. You can all me a jerk all you want, makes no difference to me since the facts are on my side.

Next?

You should be ashamed. You do all this for what? For Trump?

The Iran nuclear deal framework was a preliminary framework agreement reached in 2015 between the Islamic Republic of Iran and a group of world powers: the P5+1 (the permanent members of the United Nations Security Council —the United States, the United Kingdom, Russia, France, and China—plus Germany) and the European Union.

 

[Nostra]

You run along, fool….

Keep believing those signatures are fake, that I was wrong to write:

“It was an agreement signed by Russia and China and supported by all the great European powers, too.”

You are simply … a jerk.

Simple yes or no question for you..............can the US Secretary of State sign and agreement binding the USA to anything?

 

[Nostra]

You should be ashamed. You do all this for what? For Trump?

The Iran nuclear deal framework was a preliminary framework agreement reached in 2015 between the Islamic Republic of Iran and a group of world powers: the P5+1 (the permanent members of the United Nations Security Council —the United States, the United Kingdom, Russia, France, and China—plus Germany) and the European Union.

Thanks for proving it was a shit deal with no teeth.

Next?

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Nostra wants to derail discussion of the POLITICAL issues raised in this OP, titled “Trump screwed Up Iran Big Time, and now Iran will get a Nuke.” I don’t know when or if Iran will eventually get its nuke, but I do believe Trump “screwed up big time.”

The JCPOA was a complex process of negotiations that took place over more than two years in different stages. During that time Congress by law had to be notified at times of the status of ongoing negotiations. It was the Obama administration that itself argued (and I agree) that the JCPOA was not a formal treaty but a process leading to a preliminary political agreement.

The exact status of different parts of the JCPOA and its annexes under “International Law,” especially after the Security Council accepted it, can be and are still disputed by legal scholars from different nations with different legal traditions. The top foreign representatives of the countries involved argued over aspects of it but ultimately came to agreement and did in fact finally “sign” a JCPOA document.

It is completely normal that different nations (and often factions within them) have different interpretations of the significance of such agreements. The JCPOA was designed precisely so that the U.S. Senate (dominated by the Military Industrial Complex and Israeli Lobby) did not have to vote on it. It based itself on already existing authority of the President, and allowed the U.S. many “opt out” clauses. As another writer from the liberal Brookings Institute “Lawfareblog” — the very blog that Nostra quoted from — wrote:

“The Obama administration maintained that the JCPOA was not legally binding and, therefore, did not require Senate approval. The U.S. could stop implementing it at any time without violating its obligations under international law … “

The present OP discussion is not at all whether it was a “binding agreement or Treaty” for the U.S. (or Iran) — this is just Nostra trying to change the subject.

We are of course also not discussing whether Trump’s decision to unilaterally withdraw from this International Agreement was technically “legal.” That withdrawal is a fact. The question here is simply about whether Trump’s unilateral action was politically correct.

It was most definitely not correct. The messy results of Trump’s unilateral withdrawal from that agreement while Iran and other countries were still respecting it is precisely what we are now living with:

1) a more hostile Iranian government further advanced in its nuclear enrichment activities and more capable of building a bomb should it desire to do so

2) the defeat of the reformers in Iran willing to negotiate with us

3) a more strongly unified and determined Iranian theocracy / political dictatorship

4) an Iran now trading and oriented more to the East & China and less to Western Europe

Internationally, the results are that the U.S. is now seen:

1) by allies as an unstable country, which not only can not be relied on to keep negotiated international agreements, but which may even SANCTION ALLIES for supporting previous U.S. negotiated agreements

2) by great power competitors and opponents as an unstable country which disrespects their views, unilaterally tears up international agreements; as a result they are more hostile and willing to use force in international relations.

 

[Nostra]

“The Obama administration maintained that the JCPOA was not legally binding

Thanks for playing, Dumbass.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

I write not for fools who insult and slander, but for anybody who is truly interested in the issues raised by the JCPOA and Trump’s repudiation of it.

 

[Nostra]

I write not for fools who insult and slander, but for anybody who is truly interested in the issues raised by the JCPOA and Trump’s repudiation of it.

And yet you have ZERO links supporting your claims. The ONE link you brought proved you to be a liar.

Weird.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Nostra does not dispute that he is a fool and slanderer.
He is unable to discuss the subject intelligently in his own words.

Anybody surprised?

 

[Rigby5]

Explain why John Kerry's own State Department is on record saying it isn't a signed document, Wikiboi?

Its a signed document, but it non-binding.
Either party can terminate at any time.
And it was a good agreement.
It put a hold on weapons by reducing fissile stockpiles, while allowing them to keep the technology if we screwed up.
And we WERE the ones to screw up.
Iran was playing by the rules.

 

[Nostra]

Nostra does not dispute that he is a fool and slanderer.
He is unable to discuss the subject intelligently in his own words.

Anybody surprised?

Your admission you are a lying sack of shit is noted.

Dismissed.

 

[Nostra]

Its a signed document, but it non-binding.
Either party can terminate at any time.
And it was a good agreement.
It put a hold on weapons by reducing fissile stockpiles, while allowing them to keep the technology if we screwed up.
And we WERE the ones to screw up.
Iran was playing by the rules.

Its a signed document

Not according to the Kerry State Department who negotiated the deal.