Trouble in paradise...Anti-Government Protests Draws Tens of Thousands to D.C.

[toomuchtime_]

Do people believe protests work?

I don't think they worked when they protested during Bush's tenure.

Whether you liked Bush's policies or not, the Bush WH exercised real leadership within the Republican Party, but the Obama WH does not have that kind of clout among Democrats in Congress, so the demonstrations are aimed at telling members of Congress that their constituents - demonstrations are occurring in state capitols and other cities as well as in Washington - are watching how they vote on Obama's/Dem's big spending bills. The town hall meetings did not change how the Dem leadership behaved, but it did sway a lot of moderate members of Congress, and these demonstrations, if they can be continued, may have the same effect.

Do you believe that the anti-war protests of the 60s and 70s effected the war effort, i.e. it caused America to withdraw?

To the extent the protests were believed to show strong the anti war movement was, they influenced political positions of members of Congress and influenced some elections and these political decisions ultimately influenced policy decisions that led to the cease fire and then to Congress cutting off military aid to the South and preventing the US from providing air support to South Vietnamese troops.

If members of Congress believe these protests, along with the town hall meetings and other smaller protests that have been going on around the country for weeks, show that there is a significant popular movement afoot that strongly opposes Obama's big spending policies, enough members of Congress may decide to force Obama and the Dem leaders to do the right thing and start this process over again with a commission to study all the ways in which we might reform our health care system and how much each will cost before turning the issue over to the political process again.

 

[Modbert]

Gee Xeno, yet you excuse the GOP now?

This "tea party" protest isn't grassroots by any means. It would be like if the founding fathers tea party was being funded by France.

Think Progress » Pressed On FreedomWorks’ Connections To Tea Parties, Dick Armey Lashes Out At TP As ‘Juvenile Delinquents’

Think Progress » Spontaneous Uprising? Corporate Lobbyists Helping To Orchestrate Radical Anti-Obama Tea Party Protests

Then again:

Think Progress » Flashback: Beck said he was against capitalizing on a ‘historical terrorist attack.’

However, in the past, Beck has criticized the supporters of the Ron Paul “Revolution” who did a fundraiser on Guy Fawkes Day:

It’s really not the way I would go, tying my movement in with a historical terrorist attack, especially in post-9/11 America.

Think Progress » Exploiting 9/11, Glenn Beck, Extremists And Corporate-Backed Groups Plan Anti-Obama March

Gold Sponsor Tea Party Patriots is a website run by FreedomWorks staffers. When Tea Party Patriots list serv members objected to the 9/12 march symbol, they were rebuffed and told that all final decisions were made by FreedomWorks.

– Gold Sponsor Our Country Deserves Better is a Republican PAC that also operates the Tea Party Express, a bus tour arriving in DC for the 9/12 march. Our Country Deserves Better/Tea Party Express, which has ran an advertisement comparing Obama to Hitler, is managed by the GOP consulting firm Russo, Marsh & Rogers.

– Bronze Sponsors The Heartland Institute and the Competitive Enterprise Institute are phony think-tanks dedicated to churning out academic-appearing reports to discredit global warming. Like FreedomWorks, both organizations are funded by David and Charles Koch of the Koch Industries oil empire, one of the largest privately held companies in the world.

– Bronze Sponsor American Conservative Union is run by David Keene, a lobbyist for a firm that represents private health care companies, including the insurer HealthFirst.

– Bronze Sponsor The Senate Conservatives Fund is a Republican Party PAC run by Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC).

Many of these groups — each of which paid up to $10,000 to FreedomWorks to participate as sponsors — were pivotal in providing assistance (talking points, event lists, signs) to attendees of rowdy town halls in August and anti-Obama tea party protests. Encouraging anger and intimidation against lawmakers supporting health care reform was part of the strategy.

But for the 9/12 march, there appears to be a shift towards a more radical coalition. The official sponsorship list reveals a subterranean, extreme element of the American right in attendance. The National Association for Rural Landowners, a bronze sponsor, references the incidents at Waco and Ruby Ridge to call for attacks on “government entities” and liberals. In a YouTube video posted in July, the group makes the case for a secession, followed by a violent civil war.

This is nothing new though to these lobbyist companies:

The New York Times > Log In

But Ms. Jaques is not any random single mother. She is the Iowa state director of a conservative advocacy group, FreedomWorks, whose founders are Jack F. Kemp, the former vice-presidential nominee, and Dick Armey, the former House Republican leader.

Ms. Jaques also spent much of the past two years as a spokeswoman in Iowa for a group called For Our Grandchildren, which is mounting a nationwide campaign for private savings accounts.

Stay Classy Tea Party people! Be happy that once again you're being used, except this time isn't by the Bush Administration. No, this time it's by the Drug and Insurance Lobbyists who aren't looking out for you or America, but rather themselves. Want to find out the hard way? Get pregnant and try to get Health Insurance. Get Cancer or Diabetes. Then come back and tell us all how the Insurance companies kicked you off for pre-existing condition like they have well, everybody else.

Then you can tell us how since you decided to get some drugs to ease for your Cancer, it helped costing you thousands of dollars. However, the fact drug prices continue to rise while the Drug Lobby/Insurance Lobby/Anti-Health Care Lobby has given over a TRILLION DOLLARS in 10 years to politicians probably have no relation to one another.

 

[jillian]

Jill dear heart, you are on the wrong side of history here.

I saw this several years ago, and the GoP & Chimp gave the same 'what, me worry?' kind of comments.

What happened to them again?

I disagree with you wholeheartedly. As was pointed out, a minority even a vocal one, is still a minority.

I'm afraid I'm also confused as to where they were when Bush spent 200 billion on an unnecessary war while cutting taxes......

I thnk they're on the same side of history that the hawks were during the Vietnam War...and during the New Deal... and during the Clinton impeachment... and during the civil rights era.

Sorry hon...you know I think you're wonderful, but we aren't seeing this issue in the same way.

As for "what me worry"? I think it is always important to assess the political climate. And there is no question that the same deadenders who are still defending Bush are the ones making all the noise. The issue, for me, is how do you deliver a message and govern in such a way as to address the issues that concern more reasonanble people to keep them on board.

 

[Xenophon]

Wow. They were predicting between 100,000 and 200,000.

And ended up with 1.2 to 2 million.

That is quite a jump.

 

[elvis]

Gee Xeno, yet you excuse the GOP now?

This "tea party" protest isn't grassroots by any means. It would be like if the founding fathers tea party was being funded by France.

Think Progress » Pressed On FreedomWorks’ Connections To Tea Parties, Dick Armey Lashes Out At TP As ‘Juvenile Delinquents’

Think Progress » Spontaneous Uprising? Corporate Lobbyists Helping To Orchestrate Radical Anti-Obama Tea Party Protests

Then again:

Think Progress » Flashback: Beck said he was against capitalizing on a ‘historical terrorist attack.’

However, in the past, Beck has criticized the supporters of the Ron Paul “Revolution” who did a fundraiser on Guy Fawkes Day:

It’s really not the way I would go, tying my movement in with a historical terrorist attack, especially in post-9/11 America.

Think Progress » Exploiting 9/11, Glenn Beck, Extremists And Corporate-Backed Groups Plan Anti-Obama March

Gold Sponsor Tea Party Patriots is a website run by FreedomWorks staffers. When Tea Party Patriots list serv members objected to the 9/12 march symbol, they were rebuffed and told that all final decisions were made by FreedomWorks.

– Gold Sponsor Our Country Deserves Better is a Republican PAC that also operates the Tea Party Express, a bus tour arriving in DC for the 9/12 march. Our Country Deserves Better/Tea Party Express, which has ran an advertisement comparing Obama to Hitler, is managed by the GOP consulting firm Russo, Marsh & Rogers.

– Bronze Sponsors The Heartland Institute and the Competitive Enterprise Institute are phony think-tanks dedicated to churning out academic-appearing reports to discredit global warming. Like FreedomWorks, both organizations are funded by David and Charles Koch of the Koch Industries oil empire, one of the largest privately held companies in the world.

– Bronze Sponsor American Conservative Union is run by David Keene, a lobbyist for a firm that represents private health care companies, including the insurer HealthFirst.

– Bronze Sponsor The Senate Conservatives Fund is a Republican Party PAC run by Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC).

Many of these groups — each of which paid up to $10,000 to FreedomWorks to participate as sponsors — were pivotal in providing assistance (talking points, event lists, signs) to attendees of rowdy town halls in August and anti-Obama tea party protests. Encouraging anger and intimidation against lawmakers supporting health care reform was part of the strategy.

But for the 9/12 march, there appears to be a shift towards a more radical coalition. The official sponsorship list reveals a subterranean, extreme element of the American right in attendance. The National Association for Rural Landowners, a bronze sponsor, references the incidents at Waco and Ruby Ridge to call for attacks on “government entities” and liberals. In a YouTube video posted in July, the group makes the case for a secession, followed by a violent civil war.

This is nothing new though to these lobbyist companies:

The New York Times > Log In

But Ms. Jaques is not any random single mother. She is the Iowa state director of a conservative advocacy group, FreedomWorks, whose founders are Jack F. Kemp, the former vice-presidential nominee, and Dick Armey, the former House Republican leader.

Ms. Jaques also spent much of the past two years as a spokeswoman in Iowa for a group called For Our Grandchildren, which is mounting a nationwide campaign for private savings accounts.

Stay Classy Tea Party people! Be happy that once again you're being used, except this time isn't by the Bush Administration. No, this time it's by the Drug and Insurance Lobbyists who aren't looking out for you or America, but rather themselves. Want to find out the hard way? Get pregnant and try to get Health Insurance. Get Cancer or Diabetes. Then come back and tell us all how the Insurance companies kicked you off for pre-existing condition like they have well, everybody else.

Then you can tell us how since you decided to get some drugs to ease for your Cancer, it helped costing you thousands of dollars. However, the fact drug prices continue to rise while the Drug Lobby/Insurance Lobby/Anti-Health Care Lobby has given over a TRILLION DOLLARS in 10 years to politicians probably have no relation to one another.

yeah, can't be grass roots. it couldn't possibly be that republicans don't want socialized medicine.

 

[JakeStarkey]

'Heathcare' was DOA and all the attempts to claim 'the tide has turned' are as laughable as Barry's speech was the other night.

Xenophon the wrong-con is wrong on this also.

HCR will pass.

 

[eagleseven]

The little people don't know what's best for themselves. They're being used and manipulated by evil men behind the scenes!

1.2 million people loudly disagree, Robert...

 

[elvis]

The little people don't know what's best for themselves. typical elitism.

 

[Xenophon]

Jill dear heart, you are on the wrong side of history here.

I saw this several years ago, and the GoP & Chimp gave the same 'what, me worry?' kind of comments.

What happened to them again?

I disagree with you wholeheartedly. As was pointed out, a minority even a vocal one, is still a minority.

I'm afraid I'm also confused as to where they were when Bush spent 200 billion on an unnecessary war while cutting taxes......

I thnk they're on the same side of history that the hawks were during the Vietnam War...and during the New Deal... and during the Clinton impeachment... and during the civil rights era.

Sorry hon...you know I think you're wonderful, but we aren't seeing this issue in the same way.

As for "what me worry"? I think it is always important to assess the political climate. And there is no question that the same deadenders who are still defending Bush are the ones making all the noise. The issue, for me, is how do you deliver a message and govern in such a way as to address the issues that concern more reasonanble people to keep them on board.

You are working from the wrong premise, the country didn't go hard left, they went 'reject Bush.'

That is why all of this has been getting these protests, a lot of people, including me, would love to see healthcare cheap for all, but this mess isn't the way, and cost is the over riding issue.

You believe it will pass because BO made another speech, I however have fath in the cowardice of no term limit congresscritters and senators who will cover their own asses. They no a 'yes' on the current bill means kissing their jobs goodbye.

Watch and see how 'brave' they are on this, no matter what Obama says, they will be held accountable for it, not him.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Wow. They were predicting between 100,000 and 200,000.

OK, that is everybody who disagrees on the eastern seaboard.

So what?

Real America does not agree, and is the overwhelming majority. And the kicker? The Dems have the majorities in both chambers and the President. They will pass it, and they are not going to worry about the 60-vote rule in the Senate.

And the poor and working classes will vindicate the vote and signature next year in the elections. You can cry and scream and pout all you want, but this is going to pass, and it will stand.

You asked for populist, class warfare, and you have already lost.

 

[Ravi]

I read 30,000, not 1.2 million.

 

[Modbert]

yeah, can't be grass roots. it couldn't possibly be that republicans don't want socialized medicine.

Well when 39% of people in a poll say the Government should stay out of medicare, one has to begin questioning things.

Besides, no comment on the overwhelming evidence?

On the issue of "socialized" medicine:

Think Progress » After calling for an end to government health care, Rep. Price runs away when asked if that includes Medicare.

Think Progress » Right-wing group sponsoring Republican doctors rally supports privatizing Medicare.

The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, a right-wing group that filed an amicus brief supporting Rush Limbaugh in his fight to keep his medical records private amid charges of doctor-shopping to obtain pain medication, was present with a booth at the FreedomWorks rally on Capitol Hill today. AAPS is sponsoring another event this afternoon with Republican leaders, including Rep. Tom Price (R-GA) and Rep. Phil Gingrey (R-GA). ThinkProgress caught up with an AAPS staffer, who explained that the group not only opposes health reform, but also supports privatizing Medicare:

Think Progress » Rep. Broun walks away from man asking for plan to lower health care costs: ‘If you have a suggestion, send it.’

 

[Xenophon]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VMXz6xGeqc&feature=channel_page]YouTube - 9/12 Taxpayer Tea Party March on Washington, DC[/ame]

 

[Xenophon]

I read 30,000, not 1.2 million.

You might need glasses.

D.C. police estimates the crowd at 1.2 million. ABC News, however, reported this afternoon that the crowd was estimated at 2 million.

March on D.C. draws 2 million!

 

[elvis]

yeah, can't be grass roots. it couldn't possibly be that republicans don't want socialized medicine.

Well when 39% of people in a poll say the Government should stay out of medicare, one has to begin questioning things.

Besides, no comment on the overwhelming evidence?

On the issue of "socialized" medicine:

Think Progress » After calling for an end to government health care, Rep. Price runs away when asked if that includes Medicare.

Think Progress » Right-wing group sponsoring Republican doctors rally supports privatizing Medicare.

The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, a right-wing group that filed an amicus brief supporting Rush Limbaugh in his fight to keep his medical records private amid charges of doctor-shopping to obtain pain medication, was present with a booth at the FreedomWorks rally on Capitol Hill today. AAPS is sponsoring another event this afternoon with Republican leaders, including Rep. Tom Price (R-GA) and Rep. Phil Gingrey (R-GA). ThinkProgress caught up with an AAPS staffer, who explained that the group not only opposes health reform, but also supports privatizing Medicare:

Think Progress » Rep. Broun walks away from man asking for plan to lower health care costs: ‘If you have a suggestion, send it.’

thinkprogress.org? do you really think I am going to take a site like that seriously?

maybe I'll start quoting the savage nation.

 

[Modbert]

The little people don't know what's best for themselves. typical elitism.

Oh please, don't be throwing around the "elitist!" bullshit.

The little people are being treated like puppets by those up top. We've been over these Elvis, including many different polls that show the American people can be stupid as blocks of wood sometimes. What's any different then them believing that these lobbyists care about them?

Let me ask you, do you think the Tobacco lobbyists want the American people to all make healthy choices? Probably not.

I'm simply showing you overwhelming evidence that this event is being run by the Health Care lobby, and your response is "Elitist!"

We going back to the primary days already?

Oh and by the way, disregarding my opinion when I do have evidence to back up my points with mere "Elitist" is slightly "Elitist" itself to be honest.

 

[jillian]

You are working from the wrong premise, the country didn't go hard left, they went 'reject Bush.'

That is why all of this has been getting these protests, a lot of people, including me, would love to see healthcare cheap for all, but this mess isn't the way, and cost is the over riding issue.

You believe it will pass because BO made another speech, I however have fath in the cowardice of no term limit congresscritters and senators who will cover their own asses. They no a 'yes' on the current bill means kissing their jobs goodbye.

Watch and see how 'brave' they are on this, no matter what Obama says, they will be held accountable for it, not him.

Close...but not quite. They did not only reject Bush personally. They rejected the failed policies that got us into that mess in the first place. Voodoo economics; corporate welfare; etc. I'm not "hard left" and in fact don't like either extreme ... especially fiscally and in terms of foreign policy.

And I'd probably take the extremists more seriously if they didn't start going psycho the day after the election. I'm tired of hearing the Glen Becks and Rush Limbaugh's of the world being taken seriously... and I don't believe in pandering to schoolyard bullies.

 

[jillian]

I read 30,000, not 1.2 million.

You might need glasses.

D.C. police estimates the crowd at 1.2 million. ABC News, however, reported this afternoon that the crowd was estimated at 2 million.

March on D.C. draws 2 million!

I'll remind you that they intentionally overestimated the numbers at the teabag events too.

 

[eagleseven]

I read 30,000, not 1.2 million.

You might need glasses.

D.C. police estimates the crowd at 1.2 million. ABC News, however, reported this afternoon that the crowd was estimated at 2 million.

March on D.C. draws 2 million!

I'll remind you that they intentionally overestimated the numbers at the teabag events too.

Why would the DC police intentionally overestimate the numbers?

 

[Modbert]

thinkprogress.org? do you really think I am going to take a site like that seriously?

maybe I'll start quoting the savage nation.

Well give me links to show that these things are wrong. Instead of just yelling "bullshit"! and "elitist"! as if it that makes it all better.

Think Progress » New poll finds that 39 percent of Americans want government to ‘stay out of Medicare.’

Take a look at the entire poll results here:

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_National_819513.pdf

Only 16% of people in that poll consider themselves Liberal. And I'm willing to bet it wasn't that 16% saying the Government should "get out of medicare."

Your response?