Trekers vrs Jedites; COME ON PEOPLE GROW THE HELL UP!

[theHawk]

Spock is more intelligent, but Yoda would whoop his ass.

Anyways, both franchises are dead to me now, after J.J. Abrams destroyed both.

Abrams destroyed Star Wars? If you consider Star Wars to be destroyed, you should blame George Lucas for making the prequels. Abrams helped attempt to resurrect Star Wars from the pile of crap Lucas turned it into with those movies. Maybe he failed, but it would be hard for any of the new Star Wars movies to fall to the level of the prequels.

I think we as grown ups expected more since we grew up with the original trilogy for it to be more than that. While the acting was absolutely horrible, the story of the prequels followed the exact same blueprint and themes as the original.

JJ Abrams completely jacked everything up. It made no sense to base a character off a storm trooper, Lucas would had never had done that. And now in the new movie they are going to end the Jedi? Seriously?

JJ Abrams took Star Trek and made it into Michael Bay type action movies in space, they have absolutely no sci-fi value to them at all any more. His show Lost, was one of the most boring and contrived shows I ever sat through (Season 1 only, I couldn't take any more).

The writing of the prequels was as bad as the acting. Jar Jar Binks is perhaps the single worst character ever put into a major movie. The concept of midi-chlorians was horrible. The prequels seemed like little more than a vessel for a bunch of CGI.

The Force Awakens and Rogue One are both much better than any of the 3 prequel movies. They don't make it to the level of the originals (well, maybe Jedi, thanks to the Ewoks), but they aren't the trash the prequels are.

None of the stupidity in the prequels comes close to having a new girl completely untrained in the ways of the force being able to defeat a skywalker trained by both Luke and a new Dark Jedi lord. Terrible fucking writing and shitting on the lore of the Jedi. It took "girl power" bullshit waaaay too far.

 

[blackhawk]

 

[Montrovant]

Spock is more intelligent, but Yoda would whoop his ass.

Anyways, both franchises are dead to me now, after J.J. Abrams destroyed both.

Abrams destroyed Star Wars? If you consider Star Wars to be destroyed, you should blame George Lucas for making the prequels. Abrams helped attempt to resurrect Star Wars from the pile of crap Lucas turned it into with those movies. Maybe he failed, but it would be hard for any of the new Star Wars movies to fall to the level of the prequels.

I think we as grown ups expected more since we grew up with the original trilogy for it to be more than that. While the acting was absolutely horrible, the story of the prequels followed the exact same blueprint and themes as the original.

JJ Abrams completely jacked everything up. It made no sense to base a character off a storm trooper, Lucas would had never had done that. And now in the new movie they are going to end the Jedi? Seriously?

JJ Abrams took Star Trek and made it into Michael Bay type action movies in space, they have absolutely no sci-fi value to them at all any more. His show Lost, was one of the most boring and contrived shows I ever sat through (Season 1 only, I couldn't take any more).

The writing of the prequels was as bad as the acting. Jar Jar Binks is perhaps the single worst character ever put into a major movie. The concept of midi-chlorians was horrible. The prequels seemed like little more than a vessel for a bunch of CGI.

The Force Awakens and Rogue One are both much better than any of the 3 prequel movies. They don't make it to the level of the originals (well, maybe Jedi, thanks to the Ewoks), but they aren't the trash the prequels are.

None of the stupidity in the prequels comes close to having a new girl completely untrained in the ways of the force being able to defeat a skywalker trained by both Luke and a new Dark Jedi lord. Terrible fucking writing and shitting on the lore of the Jedi. It took "girl power" bullshit waaaay too far.

Sorry. Jar Jar Binks and midi-chlorians were worse than anything from the new movies.

That girl suddenly being a force master WAS ridiculous, though.

 

[Divine Wind]

was probably one of the best Sci-fi series ever made and FOX totally fucked it up and it went just one season because FOX should not be allowed to do sci-fi

Do you mean like the movie Avatar?

Oh, undoubtedly, one of the worst sci-fi films in history.

That's a bit much.....most overrated sci fi film in history, maybe.

Agreed. Decent SF movie, vastly overrated....even more so than Titanic.

 

[WillMunny]

It's ironic because both Spock and Yoda clearly disapproved of violence except in self-defense. My #1 favorite sci-fi franchise was the Alien movies (the Sigourney ones, I haven't seen Ridley Scott's prequel movies because reading the plot synopses, they sound like a jumbled, confused mess).

Since other posters are bringing up Avatar, I liked that overlong piece of shit better the first time I saw it, when it was called "Dances with Wolves." Avatar was simply "Dances with Wolves on Alpha Centauri," except I didn't care in the slightest about a single bland, 1-dimensional character in the entire movie.

 

[theHawk]

Spock is more intelligent, but Yoda would whoop his ass.

Anyways, both franchises are dead to me now, after J.J. Abrams destroyed both.

Abrams destroyed Star Wars? If you consider Star Wars to be destroyed, you should blame George Lucas for making the prequels. Abrams helped attempt to resurrect Star Wars from the pile of crap Lucas turned it into with those movies. Maybe he failed, but it would be hard for any of the new Star Wars movies to fall to the level of the prequels.

I think we as grown ups expected more since we grew up with the original trilogy for it to be more than that. While the acting was absolutely horrible, the story of the prequels followed the exact same blueprint and themes as the original.

JJ Abrams completely jacked everything up. It made no sense to base a character off a storm trooper, Lucas would had never had done that. And now in the new movie they are going to end the Jedi? Seriously?

JJ Abrams took Star Trek and made it into Michael Bay type action movies in space, they have absolutely no sci-fi value to them at all any more. His show Lost, was one of the most boring and contrived shows I ever sat through (Season 1 only, I couldn't take any more).

The writing of the prequels was as bad as the acting. Jar Jar Binks is perhaps the single worst character ever put into a major movie. The concept of midi-chlorians was horrible. The prequels seemed like little more than a vessel for a bunch of CGI.

The Force Awakens and Rogue One are both much better than any of the 3 prequel movies. They don't make it to the level of the originals (well, maybe Jedi, thanks to the Ewoks), but they aren't the trash the prequels are.

None of the stupidity in the prequels comes close to having a new girl completely untrained in the ways of the force being able to defeat a skywalker trained by both Luke and a new Dark Jedi lord. Terrible fucking writing and shitting on the lore of the Jedi. It took "girl power" bullshit waaaay too far.

Sorry. Jar Jar Binks and midi-chlorians were worse than anything from the new movies.

That girl suddenly being a force master WAS ridiculous, though.

Jar Jar was just a comic relief side character, and was basically dropped after the first movie. We don't get that luxury with Rei the Pink Power Ranger Jedi.

 

[WillMunny]

Since this thread is about debating sci-fi, does anyone remember the pretty good 1981 Connery film Outland (in which my favorite old coot Frances Sternhagen completely steals the show as the grouchy doctor)? Because it's so easy to picture it in the same movie-universe as Alien - same mood/flavor/appearence, etc. It's not a coincidence because Outland has the same production design team and Jerry Goldsmith composer as Alien (nobody wrote dark, morbid space-music better). In Outland's bar scenes it was very easy to imagine Alien's Parker and Brett getting drunk and hitting on the hookers there.

 

[theHawk]

It's ironic because both Spock and Yoda clearly disapproved of violence except in self-defense. My #1 favorite sci-fi franchise was the Alien movies (the Sigourney ones, I haven't seen Ridley Scott's prequel movies because reading the plot synopses, they sound like a jumbled, confused mess).

Since other posters are bringing up Avatar, I liked that overlong piece of shit better the first time I saw it, when it was called "Dances with Wolves." Avatar was simply "Dances with Wolves on Alpha Centauri," except I didn't care in the slightest about a single bland, 1-dimensional character in the entire movie.

Yea I agree I hated Avatar. Can't Hollywood come up with something better than a lame greedy corporate bad guy?

I'd recommend Prometheus, but keep in mind it isn't really an "Alien" movie, its its own thing. It takes the commonly used sci-fi theme of man turning on his own creation, or his creation turning on him (Frankenstein/Terminator/BladeRunner/TheMatrix..etc) and turns it around. Quite a unique movie in that context.

 

[WillMunny]

It's ironic because both Spock and Yoda clearly disapproved of violence except in self-defense. My #1 favorite sci-fi franchise was the Alien movies (the Sigourney ones, I haven't seen Ridley Scott's prequel movies because reading the plot synopses, they sound like a jumbled, confused mess).

Since other posters are bringing up Avatar, I liked that overlong piece of shit better the first time I saw it, when it was called "Dances with Wolves." Avatar was simply "Dances with Wolves on Alpha Centauri," except I didn't care in the slightest about a single bland, 1-dimensional character in the entire movie.

Yea I agree I hated Avatar. Can't Hollywood come up with something better than a lame greedy corporate bad guy?

I'd recommend Prometheus, but keep in mind it isn't really an "Alien" movie, its its own thing. It takes the commonly used sci-fi theme of man turning on his own creation, or his creation turning on him (Frankenstein/Terminator/BladeRunner/TheMatrix..etc) and turns it around. Quite a unique movie in that context.

Maybe I will, because I've heard Prometheus is better than Covenant, I'm sure there are worse ways to kill 2 hours. One quality I love about Alien movies - cynical as it sounds - is that I think it's the most accurate prediction of humans in space. In which the human characters are all a bunch of grungy, ragtag, foul-mouthed, hard-drinking, chain-smoking interstellar Jerry Springer guests. All under the thumb of soulless, crooked mega-corporations that control all space travel...heehee, us humans should be so lucky! I'm certainly a dude who appreciated high-quality sci-fi since I was a little kid.

 

[WillMunny]

Yeah, I thrive on sci-fi enough I even really enjoyed the slow, overlong Star Trek: The Motion Picture (now there's a sci-fi movie with the most room-shaking Goldsmith music) simply because toward the end, I saw it had such ambitious, hard-core sci-fi ideas to it. Sure the movie had its faults, bland characters/dialogue, but it was certainly aiming high in its ideas. And its production values are STILL the best in Star Trek, even after almost 40 years.

When Star Wars came out in '77, it seemed to cause a big-budget science fiction "awakening," which included Alien, Disney's The Black Hole (another flawed yet comfy guilty pleasure), Close Encounter of the Third Kind and Star Trek: The Motion Picture. I'm sure a few others from that time period I'm forgetting.

 

[Montrovant]

Yeah, I thrive on sci-fi enough I even really enjoyed the slow, overlong Star Trek: The Motion Picture (now there's a sci-fi movie with the most room-shaking Goldsmith music) simply because toward the end, I saw it had such ambitious, hard-core sci-fi ideas to it. Sure the movie had its faults, bland characters/dialogue, but it was certainly aiming high in its ideas. And its production values are STILL the best in Star Trek, even after almost 40 years.

When Star Wars came out in '77, it seemed to cause a big-budget science fiction "awakening," which included Alien, Disney's The Black Hole (another flawed yet comfy guilty pleasure), Close Encounter of the Third Kind and Star Trek: The Motion Picture. I'm sure a few others from that time period I'm forgetting.

I look back fondly on The Black Hole......but I'm afraid to actually watch it again and tarnish those memories.

 

[Call Sign Chaos]

The revolution is successful. But survival depends on drastic measures. Your continued existence represents a threat to the well-being of society. Your lives mean slow death to the more valued members of the colony. Therefore, I have no alternative but to sentence you to death. Your execution is so ordered, signed Kodos, Governor of Tarsus IV. —

EVERYONE knows that Spock is cooler than Yoduh anyway.

I'll fucking kill you!

 

[Call Sign Chaos]

My Gawd, these lame ass nerds actually got into a fight over who was better, Yoda or Spock; answer? Neither one as they are both FANTASY CHARACTERS.

A knife was introduced and then people could have gotten killed all over a childrens TV show and movie series.

Dear GAWD!

Possibly most intense Star Wars v. Star Trek argument ever ends in arrest

 

[WillMunny]

Anyway, back to the Star Wars Vs. Star Trek debate, Spock had a lot more memorable lines of Zen wisdom than Yoda. Like the Amok Time episode, in which Spock's arranged Vulcan wife cuckolded him for another guy; Spock told his rival, "Ston, she is yours. But after a time you may find that 'having' is not nearly so desirable a sensation as 'wanting.' It is illogical, I know, but so often true." Has anyone ever heard a truer statement on TV??

 

[WillMunny]

Yeah, I thrive on sci-fi enough I even really enjoyed the slow, overlong Star Trek: The Motion Picture (now there's a sci-fi movie with the most room-shaking Goldsmith music) simply because toward the end, I saw it had such ambitious, hard-core sci-fi ideas to it. Sure the movie had its faults, bland characters/dialogue, but it was certainly aiming high in its ideas. And its production values are STILL the best in Star Trek, even after almost 40 years.

When Star Wars came out in '77, it seemed to cause a big-budget science fiction "awakening," which included Alien, Disney's The Black Hole (another flawed yet comfy guilty pleasure), Close Encounter of the Third Kind and Star Trek: The Motion Picture. I'm sure a few others from that time period I'm forgetting.

I look back fondly on The Black Hole......but I'm afraid to actually watch it again and tarnish those memories.

It's not half bad until you get to the bizarre, nutty ending. It doesn't make sense, but at least it isn't boring. The movie makers themselves admitted they didn't know how to end it. It's worth another view for the ship alone; the movie's production design was Oscar-deserving. For 1979 its production values were dazzling.

 

[WillMunny]

Here's an absolute on which Trekkies & Jedis can agree: the brain-addled, talentless incompetent, arrogant scumbag J.J. Abrams (who can't even choreograph the simplest action scene) Fucked both franchises with a capital F. It's like that four-eyed pig deliberately dumbed them down as much as possible.

 

[Montrovant]

Here's an absolute on which Trekkies & Jedis can agree: the brain-addled, talentless incompetent, arrogant scumbag J.J. Abrams (who can't even choreograph the simplest action scene) Fucked both franchises with a capital F. It's like that four-eyed pig deliberately dumbed them down as much as possible.

I disagree.

Yes, the new Star Trek movies are more action than sci-fi. However, not too long ago I went back and watched every one of the old Star Trek movies, both original series and next generation movies. Most of them really aren't that good. Wrath of Khan still holds up well. The Undiscovered Country is pretty good. The rest.....not so much. The next generation movies were basically just slightly longer episodes.

With Star Wars, as I have discussed with theHawk in this thread, Lucas had already shit all over them. The Force Awakens, while it was far too similar to A New Hope, was at least too similar to a good Star Wars movie. It was a vast improvement over every one of the prequel movies.

Abrams may not make amazing movies, but I think he tends to make entertaining ones.