Torture: physical or psychological

[Patriot]

Originally posted by OCA
Flame me all you want but I voted right, although I don't like how the right answer was posed. Its not that I don't care about Iraqis, I don't care about insurgent Iraqis. I still say when you show me a picture of actual physical torture than I will change my tune, until then my position is psyops or psyhumiliation is a valid tool of war.

AMEN!

 

[Patriot]

Originally posted by JIHADTHIS
Suprised I'm not basking in the fire

Why should you bask in the fire? I think you may have a valid point!

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by JIHADTHIS
Suprised I'm not basking in the fire

I think you misunderstand the meaning of the word "bask" lol

 

[nycflasher]

As far as I'm concerned, leaving someone naked or sleep deprived for a couple of days prior to interogation is not torture.

This situation can quickly escalate into a horrific situation, however, without proper leadership and training. Not only was/is the prison extremely overcrowded but it seems that SOME of our "soldiers" behaved more like Sadham's henchmen than Americans. On top of this, it seems this has been going on for 6 months or more.

<--waiting for the dust to settle

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Originally posted by nycflasher
I think you misunderstand the meaning of the word "bask" lol

LOL, maybe I'm a closet pyro!!!!

I meant to say burn

 

[Doc Holiday]

Since I am under the impression that the Iraqis being detained are associated with the resistance and are committed to killing US Troops, I have no problem with making them stand around naked and be humiliated by female soldiers to get information from them.

Since these guys feel that they are doing God's work, they aren't afraid of death. They are afraid of not getting to paradise so the 72 virgins can service them. So, coop them up naked with some pigs, threaten to cut off their balls (since they believe those in paradise the virgins), or whatever else it takes to make them talk about their friends and save US lives.

 

[nycflasher]

He-he.
Yeah burn is better.
One basks in the sun or the affections of a sexy lady... but one burns in hell or the flaming of a pissed off messagebaorder ;-)

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by Doc Holiday
Since I am under the impression that the Iraqis being detained are associated with the resistance and are committed to killing US Troops, I have no problem with making them stand around naked and be humiliated by female soldiers to get information from them.

Since these guys feel that they are doing God's work, they aren't afraid of death. They are afraid of not getting to paradise so the 72 virgins can service them. So, coop them up naked with some pigs, threaten to cut off their balls (since they believe those in paradise the virgins), or whatever else it takes to make them talk about their friends and save US lives.

Problem is, I think there are like 5000 prisoners in Abu.
I doubt ALL of them are murderers/would-be murderers.

Regardless, we don't torture murderers in the US nor should we there. We lock 'em up, throw away the key, spit on the ground they walk on and lead the world by example.

We MUST lead by example.

 

[dilloduck]

<-------agrees with waiting for the dust to settle but wait! I hear lawyers coming. The prima donnas have their sights set on bucks and fame. How could I have possibly offered an opinion without being informed by the only people in the know. Thank God (not yours spidey) that at least it's in the hands of the military for now. If or when it goes civilian we will be hearing hairs split til we puke.

 

[Doc Holiday]

Originally posted by nycflasher
Problem is, I think there are like 5000 prisoners in Abu.
I doubt ALL of them are murderers/would-be murderers.

Regardless, we don't torture murderers in the US nor should we there. We lock 'em up, throw away the key, spit on the ground they walk on and lead the world by example.

We MUST lead by example.

Saddam had over 40,000 people associated with his various groups. I think 5000 is a reasonable number and yes they could all be dedicated killers.

We're not operating in the US and the example we have set so far has shown the US to be weak and easy to take advantage of. Remember the story of the Russians kidnapping members of a terrorist group and castrating three of them? Same principle applies here. The Arabic culture respects strength, not political correctness.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Originally posted by nycflasher
Problem is, I think there are like 5000 prisoners in Abu.
I doubt ALL of them are murderers/would-be murderers.

Regardless, we don't torture murderers in the US nor should we there. We lock 'em up, throw away the key, spit on the ground they walk on and lead the world by example.

We MUST lead by example.

If I've read the Taguba report correctly, you can't really tell if the insurgents and your "non murderers" are kept in the same cell blocks. We don't really know anything about the pics other then they were taken at that prison. Until the dust settles, all of us are really speculating.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Originally posted by remie
Real physical torture is wrong, however, nothing I have seen in the present situation amounts to any more than humiliation. Coercing a bad guy to talk is the part of war nobody wants to admit or talk about. I think we need to remember that a short time before they were "tortured" the prisoners were trying to blow up our soldiers and if given the chance, burn their bodies and hang them from a bridge. I think the entire situation is being blown out of proportion.

Tell me which would you rather I do to you? Take you pick


A) Beat you senseless and then drag you off to the infirmary where you'll make a full recovery

or


B) Force you to take it up the ass from another prisoner at gunpoint, take pictures, and then distribute the pictures to your familiy and friends and neigbors?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Originally posted by OCA
Well DK I still need that actual picture of somebody taking a beating for no good reason. I just want to know if anybody has bothered to get both sides of the story here? And just how do these intelligence officers know that most of the detainees are innocent as insurgent and civilian are indistinguishable. I don't know maybe i'm screwed up personally but I have yet to feel 1 ounce of any remorse or sadness over what happened to these guys. Are these guys dead? Are they going to go home to loved ones eventually? Are the contractors going to get to go home to their loved ones?

Why are we expected to play by 1 set of rules but historically are enemies have not been held to the same set of standards? I'm very interested in hearing what are pow's have to say on how they were treated when this is all said and done.

You need pictures? Conveniently, the more disgusting ones aren't being released, so you can go head on and pretend they don't exist and feel great about yourself.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Originally posted by OCA
You know DK I know you don't think i'm sad, I wouldn't have went off for that. I do respect your guys's position, I for one am just asking to hear the soldier's stories before I make up my mind in full, until then i'm gonna cut them some slack given the circumstances in Iraq.

I for one am very eager to hear the soldiers stories. Who knows what will come out at trial.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Originally posted by cptpwichita
I believe we should use certain types of psychological warfare,including fear and intimidation,sleep deprivation,and hunger.We should however leave this to the people who are trained to do it,NOT prison guards.the prison guards were not attempting to retrieve good intelligence information,they were retailating against those who were percieved as the enemy.

We have people trained to torture people? Interesting.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Originally posted by JIHADTHIS
You guys are going to flame me, but try to keep an open mind.

How do we know that the Iraqis in the pictures are not of the same mindset that the barbarians of Fallujah were? This thinking goes hand in hand with "we don't fear death, we want to be martyrs" . In this context, this type of interrgation tactic may be responsible for saving US lives and bringing the scumbags to justice. Killing them gets no info out of them, but as DK has eluded to, they fear shame and humiliation more then physical torture. Nothing worse in their minds then being humiliated by a small butch looking Christian woman now is there. (Notice they used women in a lot of these pics. Maybe there is some credibility in their claims that they were doing this on orders???)

Why has the assumpton been made that these were all easy going nice law abiding people that we just decided to drag around on leashes and attach wires to for the fun of it?

I bought into the "we're better then them" shame that has gripped the country the past few days, but I'm pulling a Kerry here. I think these pictures were taken on purpose with full knowledge of those in the MI community, and would even venture that some of them were staged.

I think the shame is that no one in DoD from Rummy on down has the balls to come out and say this, and GWB has allowed this to get so out of control.

Think about it.

It doesn't matter who these people are. We don't have to make any assumptions about who they are to say that torturing them is wrong.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Originally posted by Doc Holiday
Since I am under the impression that the Iraqis being detained are associated with the resistance and are committed to killing US Troops, I have no problem with making them stand around naked and be humiliated by female soldiers to get information from them.

Since these guys feel that they are doing God's work, they aren't afraid of death. They are afraid of not getting to paradise so the 72 virgins can service them. So, coop them up naked with some pigs, threaten to cut off their balls (since they believe those in paradise the virgins), or whatever else it takes to make them talk about their friends and save US lives.

"Since I am under the impression that the Iraqis being detained are associated with the resistance and are committed to killing US Troops"

HOW DO YOU KNOW !?!?!?!?



It is not permissible to use either physical or psycological discomfort as an interrorgation technique PERIOD.

 

[remie]

Originally posted by SpidermanTuba
Tell me which would you rather I do to you? Take you pick


A) Beat you senseless and then drag you off to the infirmary where you'll make a full recovery

or


B) Force you to take it up the ass from another prisoner at gunpoint, take pictures, and then distribute the pictures to your familiy and friends and neigbors?

Try reading what I posted....real physical torture is wrong. I think you can safely say your two choices both qualify as physical.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Originally posted by remie
Try reading what I posted....real physical torture is wrong. I think you can safely say your two choices both qualify as physical.

You know, you're right. Try this.


A) Beat you senseless and then drag you off to the infirmary where you'll make a full recovery

or


B) Force you to pose, at gunpoint, with other inmates that make it appear as if you may be taking it up the ass from them, take pictures, and then distribute the pictures to your familiy and friends and neigbors?

 

[Patriot]

Originally posted by SpidermanTuba
"Since I am under the impression that the Iraqis being detained are associated with the resistance and are committed to killing US Troops"

HOW DO YOU KNOW !?!?!?!?



It is not permissible to use either physical or psycological discomfort as an interrorgation technique PERIOD.

Ummm...He is the terrorism expert remember?