Toddler finds mother shot dead in Umm al-Fahm

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I do not think it has anything to do with religion, honor killings, I think it is more cultural like the female circumcisions are. In Iraq, for example, there are certain Kurdish areas where female circimcisions are carried out. In some of the countries in the Middle East, there are literally hundreds of different tribes who have their own dialects and customs. When you see a village like Nabi Saleh, for example, where all the residents have the surname Tamimi, you are dealing with a specific tribe of people with their own history and customs.

Thanks so much for a paragraph from the mosque literature ---sherri.
In fact----circumcision is not only ALMOST totally a practice of muslims---
it exists in virtually all places where islam was imposed----in some places
it is rare. In general it is not at all prevalent in Iran ---or Pakistan.---but
it still exists. It is exremely rare in non muslim populations----
with the exception of some groups in subsaharan africa (CHECK THE
W.H.O findings ----or---go to a nice large medical library). In the
world today---female circumcision is A MUSLIM religious
practice

As to arabic ----it has the characteristic of the majority of its
speakers being illiterate-----when a language is spoken
but not written----is does change lots and persons from
different places do not understand each other in speech SO???

the rest of your post is chock full of misleading assertions
and errors----but that is ok-----you lie all the time
 
as to surnames in the middle east-----lots and lots of them
are simply the name of the place the person comes from
with an "i" at the end----indicating that fact---eventually
the name follows the people over generations, See?
I can supply baby information ----but I leave out the
misleading propaganda crap that you throw in.
keep up the good garbage, sherri
 
regarding "honor killings" to say it has nothing to do
islam----is a very misleading statement. Islamic law
is very very lenient on the killing of female relatives
for sexual indiscretion. It is also very very lenient on
the killing of non muslims and rape of non muslims.
Both are actually legal if the non muslim is not "under the
protection" of a muslim governor ----even then they
cannot be considered capital crimes

shariah law is easy, sherri----regarding the
"legal interactions" between men and women--
just think of non muslims as blacks in the old south.

the laws and customs are derived from the same
sources
 
My husband was raised as a Muslim and he was not taught honor killings were a teaching of Islam and I do not think it is.
 
*killings in historyAs noted by Christian Arab writer, Norma Khouri, honor killings originate from the belief that a woman’s chastity is the property of her families, a cultural norm that comes "from our ancient tribal days, from the*Hammurabi*and Assyrian tribes of 1200 B.C."[27]Matthew A. Goldstein, J.D. (Arizona), has also noted that honor killings were encouraged in ancient Rome, where male family members who did not take actions against the female adulterers in their family were "actively persecuted".[28]The origin of honor killings and the control of women is evidenced throughout history in the culture and tradition of many regions. TheRoman law*of*pater familias*gave complete control to the men of the family for both their children and wives. Under these laws, the lives of children and wives were at the sole discretion of the men in their family. Ancient Roman Law also established historical roots of honor killings through the law stating that women found guilty of adultery could be killed by their husband in whatever manner the husband desired. In ancient Rome, being raped was seen as dishonorable to the point of destroying a woman's life and reputation, and honor killing was supposed to be a "merciful" act.[citation needed]In Greece also, the lives of women were dictated by their husbands as women were considered socially below males.[29]Among the*Amerindian*Aztecs*and*Incas, adultery was punishable by death.[28]Qays bin Asim, ancient leader of*Banu Tamim*is credited by some historians as the first to kill children on the basis of honor. It is recorded that he murdered all of his daughters to prevent them from ever causing him any kind of dishonor. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing
 
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My husband was raised as a Muslim and he was not taught honor killings were a teaching of Islam and I do not think it is.


If your husband was raised in Iran----as a shiite muslim---it is unlikely
that he ever read the koran in any language. I have known many
Iranian muslims ---none could either read arabic or ever read the
koran. ----and kinda laugh at the very thought of doing so. I do not
recall anyone saying that muslims are "taught" that "honor killings"
are legal. In islamic law ---fathers ---and whoever is the guardian
of a woman ----have remarkable powers over her.----violations
of islamic law ----such as going out of the home without
permission -----after dusk----etc etc are considered BLASPHEMY----
a capital crime for adherents of strict islamic law. If a muslim
carries out ISLAMIC LAW upon the woman under his control----
he has comitted what amounts to no crime. In fact the same
is true for slaves and non muslims in islamic law. Nothing
unique----roman law gave the PATERFAMILIAS the right
to execute members of his own family----and slaves -- I am
amazed that lawyers are not required to know anything about
the HISTORY OF LAW-----lots of islamic law is derived from
the same sources from which Constantine elaborated that which
became the JUSTINIAN CODE---and from which adolf abu ali---
derived the nuremburg laws.
 
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You read a little bit and learn honor killing has a history that predates Islam and it isva cultural practice with nothing to do with religion.
 
You read a little bit and learn honor killing has a history that predates Islam and it isva cultural practice with nothing to do with religion.


anyone who knows anything ---knows that honor killing predates islam as does
pita. Circumcision also predates islam ----as does the concept of
VIRGINITY. the statement that these issues (excluding pita)
have nothing to do with RELIGION is ----even for you-----
utterly idiotic Sherri---you know nothing at all about islam---
which is not surprising if your entire source is an Iranian who left
Iran. If you want to know something about islam----ask roudy.
He has EXPERIENCED it


of course you could ask ISA but ----the iranians do not speak
arabic as does isa.
 
My husband was raised as a Muslim and he was not taught honor killings were a teaching of Islam and I do not think it is.

http://http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/15/pregnant-womans-throat-slit-jordan-honor-killing/


Pregnant woman's throat slit in Jordan 'honor killing' - Washington Times













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Pregnant woman’s throat slit in Jordan ‘honor killing’



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By Jessica Chasmar

-

The Washington Times

Monday, April 15, 2013




**FILE** Jordanian women are seen March 12, 2010, during a rally in Deir Alla west of Amman, Jordan, to express solidarity with Palestinians following clashes between Israeli police and Palestinians in Jerusalem. (Associated Press)
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**FILE** Jordanian women are seen March 12, 2010, during a rally in ... more >



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Jordanian police reported an apparent “honor killing” Sunday after finding the burned body of a pregnant woman whose throat had been slit and abdomen cut open to expose the fetus.

Authorities found the woman’s body at dawn in Ruseifeh, east of Amman, Agence France Presse reported.

“Her throat was slit in a hideous way. The body was burned after the murder,” a police spokesman said. “We believe it was an honor crime. The belly of the woman, who was in her twenties, was cut open and we could see her four-month-old unborn child, who was dead too.”

Between 15 and 20 women die in so-called “honor killings” each year in the Arab world, according to AFP.

Murder is punishable by death in Jordan, but courts can reduce sentences for “honor killings,” particularly if the victim’s family asks for leniency


Read more: Pregnant woman's throat slit in Jordan 'honor killing' - Washington Times
Follow us: [MENTION=39892]Was[/MENTION]htimes on Twitter


This " Christian" woman is lying again. That is all she does. Something that is " learned" no doubt. Could you imagine her reaction if this happened to a JEWISH WOMEN inside Israel? She would be yelling and screaming about the RELIGION !!
 
for the record---the rights of the PATERFAMILIAS in roman
law to execute anyone in his family or his slaves ----was ALSO
an aspect of the religion of the romans

Virginity---and the seclusion even of married women
was also an ABSOLUTE must in ancient greece.

yes ---sherri-----like thousands of years ago---lots
of people did it. I was referring to the islamic
cultures that are still extant----like the one in the country
in which my hubby was born and the one that the
Iranians REVIVED in the late 1970s and the one that
the arab SPRING is in the act of reviving --
-OSAMA's islam
(for the sunnis)
and UM-two boys bostoni

(there is a new custom for lag b'omer----the eating of picnic
roasted potatoes-----jews did not invent potatoes or the eating
thereof-----and bar kochba never saw a potato----but now
it is a JEWISH CUSTOM to eat picnic roasted potatoes on
lag'b'omer) Muslims did not invent circumcision----but TODAY
' the overwhelming majority of those who practice doing so
are muslims doing it as a religious rite. Dead girl for
sexual indiscretion---or refusal to marry family chosen
man---etc etc ---is way out of proportion to population---
muslim girl. In fact also true in the USA

On the other hand----the only death of husband by
cleaning a gun by wife-----that I heard about---three
of them-----were by texans ---the event taking place
in texas and----at least one of the gun cleaners
was a baptist-----I do not know the religions of the
other two,, I believe that killing ones
husband does precede the existence of
baptists in texas. I do not have enough data
( as I do regarding the issue of islamic female
cicumcision) to describe gun cleaning killing
of husbands as a "texas baptist" thing
 
My husband was raised as a Muslim and he was not taught honor killings were a teaching of Islam and I do not think it is.

http://http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/15/pregnant-womans-throat-slit-jordan-honor-killing/


Pregnant woman's throat slit in Jordan 'honor killing' - Washington Times

Pregnant woman’s throat slit in Jordan ‘honor killing’

By Jessica Chasmar

-

The Washington Times

Monday, April 15, 2013
Jordanian police reported an apparent “honor killing” Sunday after finding the burned body of a pregnant woman whose throat had been slit and abdomen cut open to expose the fetus.

Authorities found the woman’s body at dawn in Ruseifeh, east of Amman, Agence France Presse reported.

“Her throat was slit in a hideous way. The body was burned after the murder,” a police spokesman said. “We believe it was an honor crime. The belly of the woman, who was in her twenties, was cut open and we could see her four-month-old unborn child, who was dead too.”

Between 15 and 20 women die in so-called “honor killings” each year in the Arab world, according to AFP.

Murder is punishable by death in Jordan, but courts can reduce sentences for “honor killings,” particularly if the victim’s family asks for leniency


Read more: Pregnant woman's throat slit in Jordan 'honor killing' - Washington Times
Follow us: [MENTION=39892]Was[/MENTION]htimes on Twitter


This " Christian" woman is lying again. That is all she does. Something that is " learned" no doubt. Could you imagine her reaction if this happened to a JEWISH WOMEN inside Israel? She would be yelling and screaming about the RELIGION !!

No. She is not lying. Please show me where in the Quran or Hadith's it states that honor killing is Islamic. Otherwise, perhaps you should admit you are lying.
 
The body of a woman was found Sunday in the northern Israeli city of Umm al-Fahm. The victim, of approximately 30 years of age, was apparently shot to death.

Police say the woman's son, a toddler of about three years of age, discovered the dead body as he walked into the family home in the Arab-populated town.

Toddler finds mother shot dead in Umm al-Fahm - Israel News, Ynetnews

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How horrible ... the poor child was sleeping next to his mother when she was killed...

The article states:

Police are looking into the possibility that the suspected murder was related to a dispute within the family.

Some 150 people took part in a protest over the weekend against the murder of women in Arab society. The demonstration was held at the entrance to the Israeli-Arab community of Kfar Qara along Route 65. The protesters, most of which were women, held signs with the names of female victims of honor killings and demanded an immediate end to violence targeting women.

Violence against women is so often put on the back burner in so many cultures. Like the horrible rape in India. Women need to take back their freedom from violence but as long as authorities look the other way, not much changes :(
First the authorities have to say that honor killings are wrong. That would be a start.

Abbas aide: No plans to outlaw 'honor killing' | Maan News Agency


Pakistan outlaws 'honor' killings - CSMonitor.com

https://sites.google.com/site/roblwagnerarchives/the-myth-of-honor-killings
Do Muslims as a rule condone honor killings? Of course not. Syria's
grand mufti, cleric Ahmad Hassoun, has condemned the crime as
un-Islamic. Forty Pakistani religious scholars issued a joint fatwa in
2006 against honor killings, branding the practice as contrary to the
teachings of Prophet Muhammad. And last summer Lebanon's Grand
Ayatollah Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah issued a fatwa banning honor
killings, characterizing the practice as a "repulsive act."

From Wikipedia:
“According to Dr. Shahrzad Mojab, a University of Toronto professor of women’s studies, followers of Hinduism, Islam, Judaism and Christianity have used their religions as a rationale to commit honour killings. However, Mojab stated that honor killings don’t have “any definite connection with religion at all.” She also pointed out that honor killings have been practised before any major religion came into existence. Also according to Widney Brown, the advocacy director of Human Rights Watch, said that the practice “goes across cultures and across religions.” Human rights advocates have compared “honor killing” to “crimes of passion” in Latin America (which are sometimes treated extremely leniently) and also to the killing of women for lack of dowry in India.”

Debating the Death Sentence for ‘Honor’ Killings

Shafia Murders: Imams Issue Fatwa Against Honour Killings, Domestic Violence

RELIGION - US imams issue fatwa against the honor killings

Shi?a fatwa against honor killings | the human province

Chief justice: 'Honor killing' unacceptable in Islam
 
They're just following their " religion". I thought we believed in freedom of religion. If this women were Jewish the two Hypocritical Pro Palestinian Posters wouldn't give a SHIT which is exactly how I feel.

So you support violence against women then?

Somehow, I'm not surprised.

The Pro Palestinians do. They don't see anything wrong with an entire family being murdered which obviously included women as long as they are Jewish.The hypocrite speaks again.. Their infant son was BEHEADED! Do you support that? Of course you do.I"m not surprised at all!

Really? Please show me proof of this alledged wide spread support for honor killings amonst us pro-palestinians.
 
So you support violence against women then?

Somehow, I'm not surprised.

The Pro Palestinians do. They don't see anything wrong with an entire family being murdered which obviously included women as long as they are Jewish.The hypocrite speaks again.. Their infant son was BEHEADED! Do you support that? Of course you do.I"m not surprised at all!

One very important point; When I had mentioned the family in a prior post there wasn't one Pro Palestinian with ANY degree of sorrow or empathy!!!!

What family? Do you mean the Fogels? Has it occurred to you that that is old news, much discussed and with much empathy already given and your attempt to continue bringing it up in other threads is little more self-serving thread derailment?

However what was even more disgusting was that Pro Palestinian bitch Sheri saying she asked for it because she was on " occupied land " . However what is really disgusting is that she claimed Ms Fogel DESERVED IT because she taught " terrorism " to the young Israeli girls. Of course when asked to produce the link there was nobody home. Didn't see you condemn that!!!! You can take your racist Double Standard and shove it up your ass

We'll overlook your own racist double standard for now. How about discussing the OP rather than dragging other murders into this thread? Try it. It ain't rocket science. :)
 
How horrible ... the poor child was sleeping next to his mother when she was killed...

The article states:



Violence against women is so often put on the back burner in so many cultures. Like the horrible rape in India. Women need to take back their freedom from violence but as long as authorities look the other way, not much changes :(

Yes.

Problem is, our authorities are very hesitant to get involved in cultural issues such as this one. of course they'll investigate each case up to what they can do, but as a phenomenon they pretty much put it aside, out of many reasons.

There is a difference between what happened here and what happened in India. The former is about their " religion" where the latter was just plain violence. In the US there have been " Honor Killings". Any " outrage" about their " religious practices"? Of course not!!!

There is no diffference, but I'll humor you. Let's pretend there is a difference. Where in the Quran does it permit honor killing?
 
So you support violence against women then?

Somehow, I'm not surprised.

The Pro Palestinians do. They don't see anything wrong with an entire family being murdered which obviously included women as long as they are Jewish.The hypocrite speaks again.. Their infant son was BEHEADED! Do you support that? Of course you do.I"m not surprised at all!

Really? Please show me proof of this alledged wide spread support for honor killings amonst us pro-palestinians.



I was obviously referring to the Fogel family . Among the Palestinians there was approval and thirst for more blood. Didn't see you condemning that Brutal Act.

While we are at it, show me proof that I " support violence against women'.
 
Yes.

Problem is, our authorities are very hesitant to get involved in cultural issues such as this one. of course they'll investigate each case up to what they can do, but as a phenomenon they pretty much put it aside, out of many reasons.

There is a difference between what happened here and what happened in India. The former is about their " religion" where the latter was just plain violence. In the US there have been " Honor Killings". Any " outrage" about their " religious practices"? Of course not!!!

There is no diffference, but I'll humor you. Let's pretend there is a difference. Where in the Quran does it permit honor killing?



Answer your question with a question; In what name of what " RELIGION" are " HONOR KILLINGS" practiced?? Why isn't it done in other religions?
 
The Pro Palestinians do. They don't see anything wrong with an entire family being murdered which obviously included women as long as they are Jewish.The hypocrite speaks again.. Their infant son was BEHEADED! Do you support that? Of course you do.I"m not surprised at all!

One very important point; When I had mentioned the family in a prior post there wasn't one Pro Palestinian with ANY degree of sorrow or empathy!!!!

What family? Do you mean the Fogels? Has it occurred to you that that is old news, much discussed and with much empathy already given and your attempt to continue bringing it up in other threads is little more self-serving thread derailment?

However what was even more disgusting was that Pro Palestinian bitch Sheri saying she asked for it because she was on " occupied land " . However what is really disgusting is that she claimed Ms Fogel DESERVED IT because she taught " terrorism " to the young Israeli girls. Of course when asked to produce the link there was nobody home. Didn't see you condemn that!!!! You can take your racist Double Standard and shove it up your ass

We'll overlook your own racist double standard for now. How about discussing the OP rather than dragging other murders into this thread? Try it. It ain't rocket science. :)



I never said she deserved it unlike Sheri who stated that Ms. Fogel did. Wouldn't expect you to understand that though. So exactly what makes me " racist?" Because I refuse to get upset about what Arab Men do to Arab Women ?

Maybe you would be better off using your hostility towards those " Christians" who do not condemn the Muslim enslaving and killing of Christians. Naaaaa.... That would be asking to much. Besides, I can't ask you to think beyond the thread.


http://http://jurist.org/dateline/2012/06/abeer-hashayka-honor-killings.php


JURIST - Dateline


The number of women killed in Palestine as the result of honor killings has been growing because of the absence of a deterrent law, the phenomenon of violence against women and the mentality that sexual freedom of women brings shame to the family. According to Lona Saadeh in Recommendations to reduce the local phenomenon of violence against women in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, statistics show that between the years 2004 to 2006, 32 women in Palestine were killed as the result of honor killings for being unfaithful. However, legal and medical evidence from criminal investigations proved that no evidence of infidelity existed in the majority of these instances. In some cases, merely having a conversation with a man merited killing. Often, families who kill their daughters because of honor were found guilty of assaulting them. Statistics from the Women's Center for Legal Aid and Counseling showed that up to eight women were killed in 2008 as a result of being sexually abused by one of their family members.

In 1967, before the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories, Jordan ruled the West Bank and Egypt ruled the Gaza Strip. As a result, the West Bank applies Jordanian law and the Gaza Strip applies Egyptian law. The legislative policy in the Jordanian Penal Code of 1960, which is applicable in the West Bank, is to protect people from any crime and to impose sanctions on perpetrators. Although the legislature has criminalized the act of killing, it has also provided honor killers with leniency. In the circumstances of an "honor killing," the male assailant either goes free without punishment in the case of "extenuating circumstances," or he may be imprisoned for a period of one to six months.

Article 340a of the Penal Code states that "every man who takes by surprise his wife or any female relative while committing adultery or fornication with another man and as a result kills, wounds or harms both of them or either of them is entitled to the quit circumstances." Article 98, meanwhile, guarantees "a lighter sentence for male killers who have committed a crime in a fit of fury caused by an unlawful or dangerous act on the part of the victim."

This law either protects men completely or allows for a lesser sentence for honor killings. However, if a woman were to kill any man in her family, such as a husband or brother, because he had had an extramarital relationship — which would also harm the family's honor — she would not be protected by quit or extenuating circumstances.

The current Palestinian Penal Code, which is still in draft form, treats honor killing differently. This law would give both women and men equal coverage under "extenuating circumstances" when they are surprised to find their spouse in an adulterous relationship. However, Article 235 of this law states that women can only benefit from extenuating circumstances if they catch their husband committing adultery in their house and in their marital bed. However, the husband benefits from extenuating circumstances whenever he discovers his wife's affair.

In May 2011, Aya Barde'a's dead body was found in Hebron City in the West Bank. She was a 21-year-old university student when her uncle killed her and threw her into a well — where she remained for a year until her body was discovered. Her uncle killed her because a young man kept asking Aya's family to allow him to marry her. His persistence led the uncle to believe that there was a sexual relationship and, for this reason, the uncle killed his niece without any evidence that she did anything wrong. The case sparked a wave of anger in Palestine, especially in the feminist movement. Honor killings became a public opinion issue and, on May 15, 2011, the President of the Palestinian National Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, issued a presidential decree to annul Article 340 of the Jordanian Penal Code in the West Bank so that honor killers would not benefit from quit or extenuating circumstances. Despite the illegality of the manner in which Abbas attempted to amend the law, as such amendments require a two-thirds approval vote from the legislative council, it was nevertheless considered to be a positive step toward changing unjust laws against women.

Honor killing is not just a Palestinian matter but rather a human rights matter. Killing women because of sexual behavior is a violation of women's right to life, which is protected by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Article 3 of the Declaration states: "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person." In addition, the Penal Code that applies in the Palestinian territories violates the principle of equality because it gives only men rights under quit circumstances, which contradicts Article 2 of the Declaration: "Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, color, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion."


The above is only a small portion of the article. This is what you should get upset about instead of taking out your Hostility on me.

Maybe you should get in touch with them and ask if it's in the Quran. ( What a stupid comment)
 
There is a difference between what happened here and what happened in India. The former is about their " religion" where the latter was just plain violence. In the US there have been " Honor Killings". Any " outrage" about their " religious practices"? Of course not!!!

There is no diffference, but I'll humor you. Let's pretend there is a difference. Where in the Quran does it permit honor killing?



Answer your question with a question; In what name of what " RELIGION" are " HONOR KILLINGS" practiced?? Why isn't it done in other religions?

That's two questions.

Question 1: it's not done in the name of any religion - it's done in the misguided cultural belief that a woman and her chastity are the property of her huband or male relatives

Question 2: It is.

Suggestion: Before you make an assumption, you had better verify that the answer you assume to be correct, is.

Now, can you answer my question?
 
The Pro Palestinians do. They don't see anything wrong with an entire family being murdered which obviously included women as long as they are Jewish.The hypocrite speaks again.. Their infant son was BEHEADED! Do you support that? Of course you do.I"m not surprised at all!

Really? Please show me proof of this alledged wide spread support for honor killings amonst us pro-palestinians.



I was obviously referring to the Fogel family . Among the Palestinians there was approval and thirst for more blood. Didn't see you condemning that Brutal Act.

I've condemned it. I just don't see the need to keep condemning it everytime you drag it up in an attempt to derail a topic.

While we are at it, show me proof that I " support violence against women'.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/7162599-post4.html
 
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