To Vaccinate or Not To Vaccinate

[Rozman]

When the statistic is 1 in 100,000 kids will get autism....
I would be freaking out.
I am so glad I never had children.
I would be so out of my mind about vaccinations.

 

[rdean]

With so much debate swirling throughout the media, its hard to make a decision about vaccinations.
This is especially true with infants and young children. Their brains and young bodies are still growing and maturing, why should we interfere with the natural progression of things?

I'd like to see both sides with evidence-from both sides.
I'm personally anti-vax and I've decided to be this way from research I've done.
I've also come to my decision because the CDC won't tell us the way vaccines are made, what tests are done to verify their safety and efficacy, and the true ingredients in these chemical-laden formulas.

What are your thoughts?

The only debate is from ignorant right wingernuts. And that debate makes as much sense as Obama's birth certificate.

 

[rdean]

When the statistic is 1 in 100,000 kids will get autism....
I would be freaking out.
I am so glad I never had children.
I would be so out of my mind about vaccinations.

Which, of course, has nothing to do with vaccines.

 

[Rozman]

When the statistic is 1 in 100,000 kids will get autism....
I would be freaking out.
I am so glad I never had children.
I would be so out of my mind about vaccinations.

Which, of course, has nothing to do with vaccines.

The ones loaded up with mercury?

 

[konradv]

The worst happens when the parent of a child who does have a reaction gets on a soapbox and convinces other parents to not get their kids vaccinated. We feel for your pain, but don't add to it by setting up other kids for the disease the vaccine would have protected them against. What you experienced is a fluke, NOT the norm.

 

[rdean]

When the statistic is 1 in 100,000 kids will get autism....
I would be freaking out.
I am so glad I never had children.
I would be so out of my mind about vaccinations.

Which, of course, has nothing to do with vaccines.

The ones loaded up with mercury?

Yea, because doctors goal is to give everyone mercury poisoning. Read about it before you talk about it. Then you can be on the side of knowledge, not on the side of Republicans.

Thimerosal in Vaccines

 

[FA_Q2]

When the statistic is 1 in 100,000 kids will get autism....
I would be freaking out.
I am so glad I never had children.
I would be so out of my mind about vaccinations.

Considering that the actual statistic is zero in 100,000 I don't really find that as a concern at all.

Look up the information, there is noting at all connecting autism to vaccines.

 

[Politico]

When the statistic is 1 in 100,000 kids will get autism....
I would be freaking out.
I am so glad I never had children.
I would be so out of my mind about vaccinations.

No the stats are that kids who don't have a damn thing wrong with them are being diagnosed with Autism.

As far as the OP goes, if you stop listening to the bobbleheads there is no debate.

 

[Noomi]

 

[Noomi]

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Why your child should get childhood immunizations.

I work in emergency medicine. I see lots of sick kids every shift. ALMOST EVERY TIME the sick kid just has a viral syndrome and simply needs alternating doses of acetaminophen (tylenol) and ibuprofen (motrin), more fluids, and close observation by mom and dad. If it's not a viral syndrome, then it is probably strep throat or an ear infection and they get amoxicillin (although studies show that this is unnecessary, the kiddo will get better without the antibiotic). Rarely is it something more serious like appendicitis, but I always have to be on guard to find the more serious thing.

And then there are the un-vaccinated kids. These kids scare the HELL out of me because I have rarely, if ever, seen some of the diseases THAT THIS KID SHOULDN'T EVEN BE AT RISK FOR GETTING. I've never seen Diphtheria, Tetanus, Polio, or even mumps. Now this mild rash on the kids leg, which is almost assuredly just a viral xanthem (a viral "cold" in the skin) just might be a meningiococcal rash which means this kid could be dead in a few hours if I don't diagnose it immediately and start intravenous antibiotics. That cough that the 4 month old has had for 3 days might not be his first case of viral bronchitis, it may be pertussis that can have him cough so much he gets hypoxic brain damage.

Here is a list of childhood vaccines that are recommended by the Centers for Disease Control. Next to the vaccine is the recommended age for first vaccination (most require multiple innoculations for best immunity). Then I describe to you what this MOSTLY PREVENTABLE disease can do to your child or to others.

meningiococcal (6 weeks): This prevents a bacteria that wants to cause two different, but related diseases in your child: Meningococcemia and Meningitis.

Meningococcemia is a bacterial infection of the blood. It often starts with flu-like symptoms. A fever, nausea, body aches, headache, and tiredness. Sounds like the viral syndrome that every healthy kid gets several times a year. That rash on your child's leg may look just like a viral xanthem when you bring them to see me in the ER. We give him acetaminophen in the ER, tell you to alternate with ibuprofen, push fluids, watch him closely, and bring him back if anything gets worse. The acetaminophen brings the fever down and you put him to bed. The next morning you go to wake him up and notice he is burning hot, his legs are all splotchy, and he doesn't want to wake up. You rush him back to my ER where he is diagnosed with Meningiococcmia, started on intravenous antibiotics, put on a ventilator, and admitted to the ICU. If we are lucky your child will survive, although he will likely lose his legs.

Meningitis is an infection or inflammation of the lining around the brain and spinal cord. It can be caused by many different viruses or bacteria. Bacterial meningitis commonly has a much worse outcome in terms of death and long term disability than viral meningitis. Until the development of meningococcal and pneumococcal vaccines the most common cause of meningitis were these bacteria. Meningitis can also start with flu-like symptoms of fever, nausea, body and headaches, and fatigue....looks very much like that viral syndrome that your child gets several times a year. Bacterial meningitis however, can quickly move from these benign symptoms to permanent brain damage or death in a matter of hours.

Here are some links to videos of Meningococcemia and Bacterial Meningitis:

(in spanish, but pictures in the first two minutes tell the story)



(the caption states this was viral meningitis, but I doubt it was due to the need for amputation).

pneumococcus (2 month) covers 13 of the worst serotypes of Streptococcus pneumoniae which are the second leading cause (next to Meningococcal) of bacterial meningitis. Strep pneumoniae is also a primary cause of ear infections and systemic blood infections. Some statistics say that, in developing countries, pneumococcus kills more kids than malaria, AIDS, and measles combined. Of course, as it's name implies, it also is a primary cause of pneumonia.

Here's what can happen to your child:



Pertussis (2 months) Your kiddo comes home from school with a mild fever and a cough. This is going to happen a few times every school year, and you're sure he will get better. If he's vaccinated, he probably will. If he's unvaccinated, you need to worry, because I certainly will in the emergency department because this may be whooping cough. No big deal if you bring him to see me because if I suspect it then I can treat it easily with an antibiotic. But the much bigger deal is your younger children, or your younger nieces and nephews who are not old enough to be immunized. Your unvaccinated child may have been carrying, and spreading, pertussis for as long as a MONTH before he started coughing. Now all of those unimmunized babies your child has been around may wind up in the pediatric ICU looking like this baby.





Haemophilus Influenza B (2 months). Or that mild fever and cough could progress into something else, like epiglotittis. This is an inflammation of the epiglottis, which is the flap that covers your windpipe when you swallow so that food doesn't go down it. What happens when your epiglottis gets inflammed? It covers that windpipe and you can't breathe. This can happen very quickly and is an absolute emergency.

Epiglottitis - YouTube

What happens when your child can't breathe due to epiglottitis closing off his windpipe and you bring him to my ER? I have to cut a hole in his throat so he breathe through it. Here is a video of that procedure, although this is done in the operating room. If I have to do it in the emergency department it is a lot faster, messier, and bloodier.

Imagine watching me do this to your child in the emergency room: TRACHEOSTOMY - YouTube

By the way, I've never done one of these in the ER. If you don't get your child immunized with the HIB vaccine, your child may be the first one I do.

Diphtheria (2 months): Fever, chills, fatigue, cough, headache....sounds like the viral syndrome again doesn't it? And it probably is, but if your child isn't vaccinated it could be diphtheria. Your child's lymph nodes in their neck may swell up so much that I have to put a tube down their throat so they can breathe. If I can't get the tube down their throat, I may have to again cut a hole in your child's throat so they can breathe. Diphtheria is fatal in upwards of 10% of cases, and possibly as high as 20% in the very young or elderly.

Polio (2 months): The poliovirus wants to attack the nerves that control your child's muscles. Polio is almost wiped out from the planet due to the vaccines...but we could have said the same thing about Diphtheria 15 years ago before it's resurgence. I've never seen a single case of it.

Hep B (birth) - Very infective. Causes hepatitis which can lead to permanent liver damage, and sometimes death.

Hep A (1 year) - Similar to Hep B.

Rotavirus (2 month) - Very infective horrible diarrhea that can lead to severe dehydration and hospitalization. In America this has a very low death rate, but very uncomfortable for the child and parents.

tetanus (2 month) - If your child gets tetanus their muscles can cramp up so much that they break their own bones. Yes, your child can cramp up so much that they break their own bones. We can prevent that with tetanus vaccine.

Measles (1 year) - Fever, fatigue, body aches, and a rash everywhere. While not typically a fatal disease, it often progresses to a serious pneumonia that can require hospitalization.

mumps(1 year) Fever, fatigue for few days. Swelling in the throat. Usually goes away without any big deal. Unless you are a male who is past puberty, then you are at risk for inflammation of your testicles which can lead to infertility. Women too can have inflammation of her ovaries and infertility issues. And then there is the nearly 30% chance of spontaneous miscarriage if a pregnant woman contracts mumps.

rubella(1 year) Not commonly a significant disease for your child. But if your child gives it to a pregnant woman then the pre-born child is at high risk for congenital rubella syndrome (CRS). This results in a miscarriage approximately 20% of the time. The surviving babies have significant risk of being born with a wide range of deformities including mental retardation, deafness, cataracts, retina problems, congenital heart problems, small head, etc etc, etc.

This is what rubella vaccine prevents: Congenital Rubella Syndrome - Ian s story - YouTube

Varicella(1 year) Yeah, I know, it's only chickenpox. You probably had chickenpox when you were a child and you don't think it's a big deal. It usually isn't. It can RARELY cause swelling around the brain, but that's very rare. However the bigger consequence of chickenpox happens 30-60 years AFTER they go away because, you see, the virus never really goes away. It just hides in a nerve root for decades until it comes back as shingles which is an incredibly painful rash. I've had to put people into the hospital before just to control their pain.

HPV (11 year) prevents most of the papilloma viruses that cause the most aggressive forms of cervical cancer. While cervical cancer can be detected early by annual pap smears, these pap smears on detect the cancer, they don't prevent or treat it. Furthermore many young woman do not get the pap smears, and don't go to the doctor until they have symptoms. But in that respect cervical cancer is like colon cancer; once you have symptoms, you probably have very advanced disease.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

I'd like to see both sides with evidence-from both sides.
I'm personally anti-vax and I've decided to be this way from research I've done.
I've also come to my decision because the CDC won't tell us the way vaccines are made, what tests are done to verify their safety and efficacy, and the true ingredients in these chemical-laden formulas.

What kind of "research" have you done? Would you care to share that with us? Research is only valid if it is repeatable, meaning other people can do the SAME thing with their research and come up with the same results.

The CDC doesn't tell you the way vaccines are made? Are you kidding me? Open a basic immunology/microbiology textbook and you will see several examples of how various vaccines are made. Furthermore, the CDC isn't involved in the safety/efficacy, that is the role of the FDA, which has unbelievably high requirements for any kind of medication that I prescribe (including vaccines).

The quality of living conditions plays a huge role as to what illnesses prevail in a society. Those who are hygienic and live a healthy lifestyle are ten times less likely to become ill than those who live in poverty and/or poor living conditions.

Did you notice that the decrease in major diseases also came around the time when the living conditions in America were improving?

That's because TWO public health measures grew up at about the same time: Clean potable water and vaccines. Clean potable water helped (mostly) eradicate cholera, and vaccines have helped eradicate such things as smallpox.

An analogy to your flawed thinking is "I can drive 100 mph as long as my kid is seatbelted"....how about you buckle them up AND drive safe?

The only debate is from ignorant right wingernuts. And that debate makes as much sense as Obama's birth certificate.

And here comes the big serving of partisan fruitcake. Who pays you to come on these boards all day/every day and spew your communist propaganda??

The ones loaded up with mercury?

Try again. No vaccines are "loaded" with mercury.

 

[ShackledNation]

If it weren't for widespread vaccination, smallpox would still be a threatening disease. Polio would be a larger problem. I typically don't get flu vaccinations and the like, but for more serious illnesses I think vaccination has helped saved countless lives.

 

[Darlene]

If it weren't for widespread vaccination, smallpox would still be a threatening disease. Polio would be a larger problem. I typically don't get flu vaccinations and the like, but for more serious illnesses I think vaccination has helped saved countless lives.

I'm not completely opposed to vaccines. Some aren't necessary though.

 

[Darlene]

I'd also ask for a complete list of adverse reactions and ingredients. If the doctor refuses, then you know something is up.

 

[rdean]

When the statistic is 1 in 100,000 kids will get autism....
I would be freaking out.
I am so glad I never had children.
I would be so out of my mind about vaccinations.

Considering that the actual statistic is zero in 100,000 I don't really find that as a concern at all.

Look up the information, there is noting at all connecting autism to vaccines.

Michelle Bachmann connects autism to vaccines.

 

[Valerie]

I'd also ask for a complete list of adverse reactions and ingredients. If the doctor refuses, then you know something is up.

VIS Vaccine Information Statements are required by federal law...


Vaccine Information Statements - VISs - CDC information sheets for patients

 

[Valerie]

I'd also ask for a complete list of adverse reactions and ingredients. If the doctor refuses, then you know something is up.

VIS Vaccine Information Statements are required by federal law...


Vaccine Information Statements - VISs - CDC information sheets for patients

Vaccine Information Statements (VISs) are information sheets produced by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). VISs explain both the benefits and risks of a vaccine to adult vaccine recipients and the parents or legal representatives of vaccines who are children and adolescents.

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Federal law requires that VISs be handed out whenever certain vaccinations are given (before each dose).

 

[Boatswain2PA]

I'd also ask for a complete list of adverse reactions and ingredients. If the doctor refuses, then you know something is up.

No, it doesn't mean "something is up." If you come to see me with pneumonia I may prescribe for you azithromycin. I know the medicine, I know how it works, I know it's common and (most of) it's uncommon side effects. I know what it's used for, what it's not used for, and when not to use it.

I don't know the complete list of adverse reactions (most of which are so incredibly rare that, statistically, I will never see them), and I don't know ANY of the ingredients in it other than azithromycin.

 

[koshergrl]

Vaccinations for things like measles, the flu, pertussis, tetanus, diptheria, polio...absolutely it's foolish not to be vaccinated (adults too). Because although you might not be felled by the flu, the 6 month old baby next door could very well die of it, and quickly.

The stupid HPV *vaccine* for girls...they push that every time I take my daughter to the doctor's office, and it's hogwash. They're pushing a vaccine that may or may not help the like 4000 cases of cervical cancer per year in the us.

I don't see the justification for it at all. When a vaccine works, there's no question that the rate of infection decreases. I don't think there's any evidence whatever that the rate of infection/the cancer rate is affected at ALL by that particular "vaccination".

And I'm tired of the nurse trying to push it on us.