Time to Bust Up Teacher Unions

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

All unions suck.

Unions that are greedy Left Wing assole cash cows for the filthy Democrat Party really suck.

To be fair I think they had their place many, many years ago, when people were working 14 hour days, 6 days a week in deplorable conditions. The shirtwaist factory in which many women died in NYC comes to mind. But like many things, with laws now in place for working conditions, they may have outlived their usefulness and now MUCH too often act as an arm of the Democrat Party, you're so right.

Obviously the tactics of these few teachers with the obscene gestures is disgusting and wholly unprofessional.

Obviously the tactics of these few teachers with the obscene gestures is disgusting and wholly unprofessional.

Yet they’re teaching summer school today to impressionable children and you defend it.

What the heck is summer school? Those programs ended in most school districts about 10 years ago! catch a clue!

We did away with summer school way back in about 2000 in my district in Florida. The clueless education bashers still tell stories claiming that teachers can work in the summer to supplement their pathetically poor income.

There you go again. Applying your micro bubble world to America.

Call me when there’s teaching jobs left open because no teachers can be found.

My microbubble world covers more than just my backyard. That is YOUR issue. You think the world revolves around things you see in the liberal dominated insane worlds of NYC, Chicago, and LA. When was the last time you heard of a problem in Iowa, South Dakota, New Mexico, or Idaho?

I was a substitute teacher last year in a high school that had 3 math positions filled with substitutes for the entire year. Yeah, I know, my backyard! You just want to ignore reality.

I once was hired mid-year because I was the only person even remotely qualified for the position in a school where they FIRED a teacher. The principal said there was no real interview or anything to assess my ability to do the job except what was on my resume. They had searched for 3 months for a replacement.

Wait! You said that teachers never get fired, didn't you? They get protected by the unions at all costs. I must be lying again! Reading your posts has influenced me I guess!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

To be fair I think they had their place many, many years ago, when people were working 14 hour days, 6 days a week in deplorable conditions. The shirtwaist factory in which many women died in NYC comes to mind. But like many things, with laws now in place for working conditions, they may have outlived their usefulness and now MUCH too often act as an arm of the Democrat Party, you're so right.

Obviously the tactics of these few teachers with the obscene gestures is disgusting and wholly unprofessional.

Obviously the tactics of these few teachers with the obscene gestures is disgusting and wholly unprofessional.

Yet they’re teaching summer school today to impressionable children and you defend it.

What the heck is summer school? Those programs ended in most school districts about 10 years ago! catch a clue!

We did away with summer school way back in about 2000 in my district in Florida. The clueless education bashers still tell stories claiming that teachers can work in the summer to supplement their pathetically poor income.

Teacher salaries in NY vary by district.

Thank you Captain Obvious. Was there a point there? If so, you missed it by a mile.

Hey maybe when the teacher shortage just gets THAT BAD< all these yokels can go into the public schools and tell the kids how awful they are and how much the job is sooooo easy and stuff.

How long do you give them, how long do you think they'll last in the classroom? Me, I got 25 years in.

I retired (You can also read that as "quit") last year because of bureaucratic nonsense that kept me as a long term sub rather than a paid teacher. I would not go back into any of my local school districts if you paid me $200,000 a year. 21 years of frustration in dealing with educator wannabees infesting this message board was far too long!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

All unions suck.

Unions that are greedy Left Wing assole cash cows for the filthy Democrat Party really suck.

To be fair I think they had their place many, many years ago, when people were working 14 hour days, 6 days a week in deplorable conditions. The shirtwaist factory in which many women died in NYC comes to mind. But like many things, with laws now in place for working conditions, they may have outlived their usefulness and now MUCH too often act as an arm of the Democrat Party, you're so right.

Obviously the tactics of these few teachers with the obscene gestures is disgusting and wholly unprofessional.

Obviously the tactics of these few teachers with the obscene gestures is disgusting and wholly unprofessional.

Yet they’re teaching summer school today to impressionable children and you defend it.

If you can't make an argument honestly it means you can't make an argument.

Says the teacher defending horrible teachers who abuse children.

Does everyone see how much Weatherman is outright LYING about what I've said in this thread? Yes or no.

Am I defending horrible teachers who abuse children? Anyone see me do that?

In another thread he accused me of saying something I did not say. It is is his M.O. Lie, lie, lie, and then when you are proven to be a liar, he just lies some more.

 

[Indeependent]

As it should be. As I've explained over and over on this board, you have no right to a job. Jobs are a byproduct of an entity creating a service or product for others. As a business expands one person typically can't get the job done on their own so they hire people to help. It's up to them as to how they decide to compensate you. If you don't feel it's enough then don't take the job. If they can't find someone they'll have to up their ante. That's the way the real world works. If you want to decide your own salary start your own business.

It works out nicely for employers when they can treat every employee as every man for himself. Not in an economic position to protect yourself, you get fucked

Workers have a right to stand up for each other. Protect each other from abuse.

The precise reason to discourage off-shoring, business visas and Illegals.

Workers surrendering their standard of living and basic benefits is not a solution to off shoring.
Not many illegal school teachers

I know many many teachers; most of them are not the brightest bulbs in the world.

I know many, many teachers who are dedicated, hard working and very good at what they do

Now define “what they do”.

 

[Indeependent]

All unions suck.

Unions that are greedy Left Wing assole cash cows for the filthy Democrat Party really suck.

To be fair I think they had their place many, many years ago, when people were working 14 hour days, 6 days a week in deplorable conditions. The shirtwaist factory in which many women died in NYC comes to mind. But like many things, with laws now in place for working conditions, they may have outlived their usefulness and now MUCH too often act as an arm of the Democrat Party, you're so right.

Obviously the tactics of these few teachers with the obscene gestures is disgusting and wholly unprofessional.

Obviously the tactics of these few teachers with the obscene gestures is disgusting and wholly unprofessional.

Yet they’re teaching summer school today to impressionable children and you defend it.

What the heck is summer school? Those programs ended in most school districts about 10 years ago! catch a clue!

We did away with summer school way back in about 2000 in my district in Florida. The clueless education bashers still tell stories claiming that teachers can work in the summer to supplement their pathetically poor income.

Teacher salaries in NY vary by district.

Thank you Captain Obvious. Was there a point there? If so, you missed it by a mile.

I simply responded to your post.

 

[Indeependent]

As it should be. As I've explained over and over on this board, you have no right to a job. Jobs are a byproduct of an entity creating a service or product for others. As a business expands one person typically can't get the job done on their own so they hire people to help. It's up to them as to how they decide to compensate you. If you don't feel it's enough then don't take the job. If they can't find someone they'll have to up their ante. That's the way the real world works. If you want to decide your own salary start your own business.

It works out nicely for employers when they can treat every employee as every man for himself. Not in an economic position to protect yourself, you get fucked

Workers have a right to stand up for each other. Protect each other from abuse.

The precise reason to discourage off-shoring, business visas and Illegals.

Workers surrendering their standard of living and basic benefits is not a solution to off shoring.
Not many illegal school teachers

I know many many teachers; most of them are not the brightest bulbs in the world.

They probably feel the same way about you.

They are not bright enough to know who’s brighter than they are.
I actually have to explain why, “No child left behind” caused the other children to be held behind.
I will give credit to most of them who listened to me and realized I was correct.

 

[Indeependent]

As it should be. As I've explained over and over on this board, you have no right to a job. Jobs are a byproduct of an entity creating a service or product for others. As a business expands one person typically can't get the job done on their own so they hire people to help. It's up to them as to how they decide to compensate you. If you don't feel it's enough then don't take the job. If they can't find someone they'll have to up their ante. That's the way the real world works. If you want to decide your own salary start your own business.

It works out nicely for employers when they can treat every employee as every man for himself. Not in an economic position to protect yourself, you get fucked

Workers have a right to stand up for each other. Protect each other from abuse.

The precise reason to discourage off-shoring, business visas and Illegals.

Workers surrendering their standard of living and basic benefits is not a solution to off shoring.
Not many illegal school teachers

I know many many teachers; most of them are not the brightest bulbs in the world.

Depends though on what kind of smart you're talking about. Some people have IQs of 140 and no people skills whatsoever. Teaching demands a very high level of people skills to find any kind of success; we have to make a stunning number of decision about people in a given day. So maybe the "people you know" are not intellectual wunderkinds are far as pure IQ goes, but there's a lot more that goes into good teaching.

That said, I think teachers should be smart and educated, generally.

My kids went to non-politically correct private schools and most of the teachers were phenomenal.
Of course, most of them had spouses who were professionals in other fields such as MDs, Financiers, Attorneys and Accountants.
Someone had to bring home the bacon.

 

[rightwinger]

It works out nicely for employers when they can treat every employee as every man for himself. Not in an economic position to protect yourself, you get fucked

Workers have a right to stand up for each other. Protect each other from abuse.

The precise reason to discourage off-shoring, business visas and Illegals.

Workers surrendering their standard of living and basic benefits is not a solution to off shoring.
Not many illegal school teachers

I know many many teachers; most of them are not the brightest bulbs in the world.

I know many, many teachers who are dedicated, hard working and very good at what they do

Now define “what they do”.

Educate generations of Americans

 

[Indeependent]

The precise reason to discourage off-shoring, business visas and Illegals.

Workers surrendering their standard of living and basic benefits is not a solution to off shoring.
Not many illegal school teachers

I know many many teachers; most of them are not the brightest bulbs in the world.

I know many, many teachers who are dedicated, hard working and very good at what they do

Now define “what they do”.

Educate generations of Americans

Define “educate”.
Be specific...
Math
Language
Science
Critical thinking skills

The new math stopped the fragmenting of...
Algebra
Geometry
Trigonometry
Calculus
And became a cauldron of confusion

European history is no longer being taught as an introduction to the greatness of the US

Critical, in context, thought is no longer relevant.

 

[Weatherman2020]

To be fair I think they had their place many, many years ago, when people were working 14 hour days, 6 days a week in deplorable conditions. The shirtwaist factory in which many women died in NYC comes to mind. But like many things, with laws now in place for working conditions, they may have outlived their usefulness and now MUCH too often act as an arm of the Democrat Party, you're so right.

Obviously the tactics of these few teachers with the obscene gestures is disgusting and wholly unprofessional.

Obviously the tactics of these few teachers with the obscene gestures is disgusting and wholly unprofessional.

Yet they’re teaching summer school today to impressionable children and you defend it.

If you can't make an argument honestly it means you can't make an argument.

Says the teacher defending horrible teachers who abuse children.

Does everyone see how much Weatherman is outright LYING about what I've said in this thread? Yes or no.

Am I defending horrible teachers who abuse children? Anyone see me do that?

In another thread he accused me of saying something I did not say. It is is his M.O. Lie, lie, lie, and then when you are proven to be a liar, he just lies some more.

Here we are in a thread about abusive teachers and once again the teachers dogpile in their self pity party about wanting more money for crappy education.

 

[Weatherman2020]

All unions suck.

Unions that are greedy Left Wing assole cash cows for the filthy Democrat Party really suck.

To be fair I think they had their place many, many years ago, when people were working 14 hour days, 6 days a week in deplorable conditions. The shirtwaist factory in which many women died in NYC comes to mind. But like many things, with laws now in place for working conditions, they may have outlived their usefulness and now MUCH too often act as an arm of the Democrat Party, you're so right.

Obviously the tactics of these few teachers with the obscene gestures is disgusting and wholly unprofessional.

Obviously the tactics of these few teachers with the obscene gestures is disgusting and wholly unprofessional.

Yet they’re teaching summer school today to impressionable children and you defend it.

What the heck is summer school? Those programs ended in most school districts about 10 years ago! catch a clue!

We did away with summer school way back in about 2000 in my district in Florida. The clueless education bashers still tell stories claiming that teachers can work in the summer to supplement their pathetically poor income.

There you go again. Applying your micro bubble world to America.

Call me when there’s teaching jobs left open because no teachers can be found.

My microbubble world covers more than just my backyard. That is YOUR issue. You think the world revolves around things you see in the liberal dominated insane worlds of NYC, Chicago, and LA. When was the last time you heard of a problem in Iowa, South Dakota, New Mexico, or Idaho?

I was a substitute teacher last year in a high school that had 3 math positions filled with substitutes for the entire year. Yeah, I know, my backyard! You just want to ignore reality.

I once was hired mid-year because I was the only person even remotely qualified for the position in a school where they FIRED a teacher. The principal said there was no real interview or anything to assess my ability to do the job except what was on my resume. They had searched for 3 months for a replacement.

Wait! You said that teachers never get fired, didn't you? They get protected by the unions at all costs. I must be lying again! Reading your posts has influenced me I guess!

When was the last time you heard of a problem in Iowa, South Dakota, New Mexico, or Idaho?

It’s a thread about the crappy teachers of Colorado Springs.

 

[Flash]

All unions suck.

Unions that are greedy Left Wing assole cash cows for the filthy Democrat Party really suck.

To be fair I think they had their place many, many years ago, when people were working 14 hour days, 6 days a week in deplorable conditions. The shirtwaist factory in which many women died in NYC comes to mind. But like many things, with laws now in place for working conditions, they may have outlived their usefulness and now MUCH too often act as an arm of the Democrat Party, you're so right.

Obviously the tactics of these few teachers with the obscene gestures is disgusting and wholly unprofessional.

Collective bargaining assures that there is at least a chance of a balance of power. otherwise, there would be no limit on exploitation.

Betsy bitch deserves what she got. Giving a thief, who is full of hatred for what she is and is out to protect criminals, the finger is no big deal.

Collective bargaining only assures greed.

The collective also becomes a political entity that leads to corruption.

You have to be a sorry ass individual to not be able to bargain with your employer on your own.

 

[Flash]

Yet they’re teaching summer school today to impressionable children and you defend it.

If you can't make an argument honestly it means you can't make an argument.

Says the teacher defending horrible teachers who abuse children.

Does everyone see how much Weatherman is outright LYING about what I've said in this thread? Yes or no.

Am I defending horrible teachers who abuse children? Anyone see me do that?

In another thread he accused me of saying something I did not say. It is is his M.O. Lie, lie, lie, and then when you are proven to be a liar, he just lies some more.

Here we are in a thread about abusive teachers and once again the teachers dogpile in their self pity party about wanting more money for crappy education.

My wife is a retired school teacher. She said she would hate teaching nowadays with the school districts kissing the ass of the filthy minorities, that have no drive to learn anything.

 

[rightwinger]

Workers surrendering their standard of living and basic benefits is not a solution to off shoring.
Not many illegal school teachers

I know many many teachers; most of them are not the brightest bulbs in the world.

I know many, many teachers who are dedicated, hard working and very good at what they do

Now define “what they do”.

Educate generations of Americans

Define “educate”.
Be specific...
Math
Language
Science
Critical thinking skills

The new math stopped the fragmenting of...
Algebra
Geometry
Trigonometry
Calculus
And became a cauldron of confusion

European history is no longer being taught as an introduction to the greatness of the US

Critical, in context, thought is no longer relevant.

Nope
Not playing

 

[rightwinger]

If you can't make an argument honestly it means you can't make an argument.

Says the teacher defending horrible teachers who abuse children.

Does everyone see how much Weatherman is outright LYING about what I've said in this thread? Yes or no.

Am I defending horrible teachers who abuse children? Anyone see me do that?

In another thread he accused me of saying something I did not say. It is is his M.O. Lie, lie, lie, and then when you are proven to be a liar, he just lies some more.

Here we are in a thread about abusive teachers and once again the teachers dogpile in their self pity party about wanting more money for crappy education.

My wife is a retired school teacher. She said she would hate teaching nowadays with the school districts kissing the ass of the filthy minorities, that have no drive to learn anything.

Did your wife call them filthy minorities?

If she did, I’m glad she is retired

 

[Fueri]

If you have other facts, present them. If you have specific points, cite them.

Given that you cannot seem to grasp that one set of data was aggregate to the town and the other was specific to the school, as both topics came up, I will spoonfeed you that to too. Two different data sets. Dealing with 2 different sample sets. One was poverty level of the town, the second was specific to the high school and, as per that source, indicated the % of students qualifying for meal assistance. Get it now, I hope.

You've been wrong about nearly every damn thing you've said. I would list them but I'm afraid you'd run out of fingers counting them and have a stroke or something by having to actually engage that barnacle encrusted brain to do the math in your head.

Again, if you have different data that disproves anything I said present it, else stop making an ass of yourself.

Your ignorance in deciding to lecture me on the demographics of my hometown, in which I spent 20+ years, while you have never set foot there, and then not simply admitting you may have been wrong is one if the more glaring examples if idiocy I have seen on this board, so well done on that.

I'd agree we're done. I'm going to finish mowing the lawn and start in on the beer in the cooler. Latah'

I am not arguing the demographics! Your own sources are!

The school is the only one in the community correct? How could the demographics be that far out of whack unless they are simply wrong!

BTW, the starting salary in your schools district is nowhere near 100K! In fact, it about half that at $52,041. That's still about what our teachers make with 20 years service. Only then does a teacher in your district with a Master's degree come close to 100K.

https://www.fenton100.org/UserFiles/Servers/Server_286965/File/District/Administration/Business Office/FEA Contract 2018-21 Final.pdf

You are either incredibly stupid or lying through your teeth. You claim to not be stupid, so why do you lie?

Who gives a fuck what the starting salary is you abject idiot.

I cited average salary. And offered links to verify the data.

You do understand the difference I hope.

While you're drooling in your soup you might want to consider that you still have shown jack shit, proven nothing, while I have proven you a liar and a fool repeatedly and you keep coming back for more.

I'm feeling sorry for you at this point.

Now scuttle back to your hole and keep muttering to yourself how right you are.

So NOW you claim that the average teacher in that school has an average of over 20 years experience? My God, you are such a dumbass!

No fuckface, I made no such statement.

We've established that you can't read worth a shit and now we know your math skills aren't worth a crap either as you apparently don't understand how simple averages work.

Holy shit you're truly dumb as hell. As in truly, actually, stupid. Lol.

From the source:

"This information is reported at the district level. The display shows the average salary for teachers over the past 5 years. These numbers are calculated by using the sum of all teachers' salaries divided by the number of FTE teachers. To view long term data click on 10 Years Trend. Clicking the View Details button will add a data table."

In other words, this is public data, moron, which means we can likely find it.

And we can. Here are the actual salaries, and totals, of those teachers, listed individually and summarized:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.fenton100.org/UserFiles/Servers/Server_286965/File/District/Administration/Business%20Office/2018%20EIS%20Administrator%20and%20Teacher%20Salary%20and%20Benefits%20Report.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiOk678n5PjAhXNB80KHcFoAQcQFjAAegQIBhAC&usg=AOvVaw3sftowhzWyuBfYRnCQ-8ZV

Total base salary, not including benefits BTW, shown at the bottom of the report

11,718,714.36

Total number of personnel: 112

Now, follow the bouncing ball, as this is where it apparently gets too tricky for you.

We take this number: 11,718,714.36

And divide by this number: 112

And that gives us an aaaaaavvvvverrrrrage

We get..........drumroll please: 104,631.37 average base salary per employee. One teacher I saw is pulling 178k base salary. Ho-lee-shit. Likely coaching or something too is my guess, but still, 178k. Ho-lee-shit.

There are some admin listed here also, but I doubt that changes the average teacher pay all that much. The data is there, but I'm not wasting more of my time calculating those out.

Read it and weep.....or deny or deflect, as is your well established MO. All the same to me, really.

The facts are clear, they've been presented clearly and concisely, and you're simply wrong. Continuing to argue them is dumb, and has been all along.

Class dismissed.

Your link includes administrators, so your numbers are STILL fucked up!

You are a pathetic excuse for an educated American because you lie, plain and simple. What makes it worse is your excuses. You have earned a well-deserved ignore because you have shown nothing but contempt and lies about your own school district.

Yes, shit for brains and I mentioned that fact in my post. You can see the salaries yourself you lazy sack of crap.

I've lied about nothing, zero, and have offered data to support every single thing I've said, while you have lied and misrepresented repeatedly, including in this latest response, and have offered nothing but bluster.

It is your ignorant foolish ass that simply refuses to accept the data or reality. You are wrong, have been proven wrong by data and simple math and refuse to accept clear facts.

That's how people stay dumb. The earth is pretty flat in your view, ain't it, loser.

You cannot accept that you've been handed an ass-whippin, and run to the ignore button to save what's left of your fragile ego. Go right ahead, pussy.

I've shown contempt here only for you, shithead, and it has been well-deserved. Your very first comment called me a liar, which was a lie itself and quickly proven as such, and I rightfully shoved all of this right up your contemptible ass. Treat me with respect and I do the same. Call me a liar, with no basis in fact, and you get what you give, and that's exactly what you got.

Now go hide in your ignorance behind your ignore button. Lol.

 

[Indeependent]

I know many many teachers; most of them are not the brightest bulbs in the world.

I know many, many teachers who are dedicated, hard working and very good at what they do

Now define “what they do”.

Educate generations of Americans

Define “educate”.
Be specific...
Math
Language
Science
Critical thinking skills

The new math stopped the fragmenting of...
Algebra
Geometry
Trigonometry
Calculus
And became a cauldron of confusion

European history is no longer being taught as an introduction to the greatness of the US

Critical, in context, thought is no longer relevant.

Nope
Not playing

I’m happy to hear that as education is not a game.

 

[Lysistrata]

All unions suck.

Unions that are greedy Left Wing assole cash cows for the filthy Democrat Party really suck.

To be fair I think they had their place many, many years ago, when people were working 14 hour days, 6 days a week in deplorable conditions. The shirtwaist factory in which many women died in NYC comes to mind. But like many things, with laws now in place for working conditions, they may have outlived their usefulness and now MUCH too often act as an arm of the Democrat Party, you're so right.

Obviously the tactics of these few teachers with the obscene gestures is disgusting and wholly unprofessional.

Collective bargaining assures that there is at least a chance of a balance of power. otherwise, there would be no limit on exploitation.

Betsy bitch deserves what she got. Giving a thief, who is full of hatred for what she is and is out to protect criminals, the finger is no big deal.

One thing I know: your idea of social mores is totally broken. So I won't be taking advice on proper conduct in front of students from you. Believe me.

So my idea of social mores is "totally broken"? I've never heard that one before. Why would I want to give advice to somebody who chases after frankie?

 

[SweetSue92]

It works out nicely for employers when they can treat every employee as every man for himself. Not in an economic position to protect yourself, you get fucked

Workers have a right to stand up for each other. Protect each other from abuse.

The precise reason to discourage off-shoring, business visas and Illegals.

Workers surrendering their standard of living and basic benefits is not a solution to off shoring.
Not many illegal school teachers

I know many many teachers; most of them are not the brightest bulbs in the world.

Depends though on what kind of smart you're talking about. Some people have IQs of 140 and no people skills whatsoever. Teaching demands a very high level of people skills to find any kind of success; we have to make a stunning number of decision about people in a given day. So maybe the "people you know" are not intellectual wunderkinds are far as pure IQ goes, but there's a lot more that goes into good teaching.

That said, I think teachers should be smart and educated, generally.

My kids went to non-politically correct private schools and most of the teachers were phenomenal.
Of course, most of them had spouses who were professionals in other fields such as MDs, Financiers, Attorneys and Accountants.
Someone had to bring home the bacon.

I hope you are smart enough to realize the best teachers are not always in the private schools.

I mean I hope you're that smart.

 

[SweetSue92]

Yet they’re teaching summer school today to impressionable children and you defend it.

If you can't make an argument honestly it means you can't make an argument.

Says the teacher defending horrible teachers who abuse children.

Does everyone see how much Weatherman is outright LYING about what I've said in this thread? Yes or no.

Am I defending horrible teachers who abuse children? Anyone see me do that?

In another thread he accused me of saying something I did not say. It is is his M.O. Lie, lie, lie, and then when you are proven to be a liar, he just lies some more.

Here we are in a thread about abusive teachers and once again the teachers dogpile in their self pity party about wanting more money for crappy education.

Here we are in another thread where Weatherman must lie in order to make a point.