This is why we need a living wage

[beagle9]

Actually, what happened was that OPEC formed, and the price of gas started rising pretty quickly in the 1970's. Service stations started offering the option of self-service or full-service. Full-service usually ran 7-10 cents a gallon more than self-service (which coincidentally was also about 7-10%). It didn't take long for most people to start switching to self-service. Less people using full-service also resulted in less people working at service stations. And guess who the people were that got fired? It was the 15-20 year old unskilled young people that pumped gas and in between customers, they were learning a trade called auto mechanics. Being an auto mechanic at a mom and pop service station used to pay a pretty decent wage (much more than minimum wage). Eventually, in most states, the 'Service Station" disappeared and was replaced by self-service with a convenience store attached.

Now, to be perfectly realistic, I'm not sure the whole pump gas and learn how to be a mechanic would work in this day and age. Automobiles have become much more complex than they were 20+ years ago. I doubt a person could learn good automotive mechanics simply from on the job training these days. But 20, 30, 40 years ago, they could build a decent paying career with that as their start.

Peoples ability to reason and learn has developed greatly over the years, and that is the very reason things have become as complex as they are today, especially when they are given the chance, and so I will still believe that the things that people assume people can't do anymore is just wrong today. Kids are in rebellion these days because they don't have the opportunities of the past offered them no more, and it's not because they aren't smart enough, but it's more so that greed has replaced the things in which we all held dear in the learning processes of life, therefore leaving them to wither on the vine, and then to simply die. They are supposed to be the potential replacements for the old who will need them someday in order to retire, but yet they can't find themselves anymore because of it all........ Shameful....

It's not because people aren't smart enough. It really does take a lot more technical skill to perform many auto mechanic functions on a vehicle built in the last ten years than it took twenty (and more) years ago. Think about it, today's cars have things like heated and cooled seats, rear view cameras, built in GPS and DVD players. A buddy of mine has a car with programmed keys. When he gets in the car, it knows it is him and automatically adjusts the driver seat to his preference as opposed to the seat position when his wife's key is used. In addition to that, the "key" never comes out of his pocket, a sensor detects it by proximity. A shade tree mechanic can't diagnose and fix problems to those types of systems.
A good mechanic these days is part mechanical engineering, part computer science, part HVAC and part experienced guesser when the diagnostic tool can't figure out what is wrong, plus more.

Hehe, when I was a young man a common saying was that 'everybody needs a good doctor, a good lawyer and a good mechanic'. I know I spend a lot more time with my mechanic than I do with either my doctor or my lawyer. But then, they call it "Practicing medicine", and "Practicing law", and they call it "Auto repair".
Just sayin', the mechanics aren't 'practicing'.

Well your speaking to a mechanic, and once you know the basics of how things work, and how things are built upon like layers on a cake, then it's not so bad peeling back those layers in order to expose what type of secrets they now hold, and this was on top of what was always the foundation of it all from the very beginning. My grandfather once made me laugh as we were working on a huge I-H tractor that had the latest technology built within it, when he laughed and said "HA, them college engineers think they can fool someone like me, but all they did was take this and do that to it, and then take that and do this with it, but in the end it really wasn't as sofisticated as they wanted us to believe it to be". I agreed and we fixed the problem easily that day, and then we laughed and joked about it all the way to the shop.

If I can learn anything, then trust me almost anyone can learn just about anything if they apply themselves. I know because I wasn't the brightest bulb in the room by no stretch of the imagination... Uh Oh (I hope Ernie S. doesn't read this)...LOL

 

[beagle9]

So your goal isn't to improve the lives of the low end workers, but rather to eliminate their jobs and force them on to welfare?

My goal is to stop you from enslaving children to work in your coal mine.

Well aren't you quite the accomplished fellow.
You achieved your goal before you were even born.
You know, back in 1865 when slavery ended in the US.
Admirable

Good follow up to his words Alan, and hey Zombie you may want to try that again in a different way maybe, because Alan is right on with his response to your words.

 

[beagle9]

If you ran a gas station with pumps that didnt have credit card capability you'd be out of business in a month.

And you know why that is ? It's not because the citizens would put you out of business, but you would be forced out by your competitors who would use the good ole boy system to crush you because you are breaking the union in which they have created. You see they get together and only allow certain services and things at certain prices, but here a rogue owner is trying to do more, and to give someone more bang for their buck until he or she becomes an ameba to the good ole boy club, and then a target to be run out of business somehow or the other....... The citizens should be ashamed that they have allowed this to happen to them over time.

That "good ole boy" system sure put Microsoft, Apple, Google, Yahoo and other rogues out of business, didn't they? It offends me that Westinghouse, General Electric, AT&T, Xerox and Hewlett-Packard did that.
Oh wait.
My bad.
They didn't.

Wow you just listed some of the members of the club... LOL

What happened to the thousands more that should be listed also ? Oh that's right the club is exclusive not inclusive as people might think that it is or maybe they want people to think they are when their not, but hec I don't know I might be dreaming about it all.

Hmmm seems I remember the government bringing what some sort of an (anti-trust???) lawsuit against Microsoft not so long ago, and they won that suit didn't they ? Didn't Microsoft have to make consessions in that suit or something ? The others have been on the hot seat also haven't they ?

 

[Zombie_Pundit]

So your goal isn't to improve the lives of the low end workers, but rather to eliminate their jobs and force them on to welfare?

My goal is to stop you from enslaving children to work in your coal mine.

Well aren't you quite the accomplished fellow.
You achieved your goal before you were even born.
You know, back in 1865 when slavery ended in the US.
Admirable

I am a zombie, you know. It's kind of hard to tell when I was born.
In any case, it is evident that the person to whom I responded would like to repeal a number of laws, and maybe an amendment or two.

 

[Zombie_Pundit]

My goal is to stop you from enslaving children to work in your coal mine.

Well aren't you quite the accomplished fellow.
You achieved your goal before you were even born.
You know, back in 1865 when slavery ended in the US.
Admirable

Good follow up to his words Alan, and hey Zombie you may want to try that again in a different way maybe, because Alan is right on with his response to your words.

Alan1 is cool. He actually adds to the discussion. If he took some umbrage, well, I'll just have to keep it cleaner.

 

[alan1]

And you know why that is ? It's not because the citizens would put you out of business, but you would be forced out by your competitors who would use the good ole boy system to crush you because you are breaking the union in which they have created. You see they get together and only allow certain services and things at certain prices, but here a rogue owner is trying to do more, and to give someone more bang for their buck until he or she becomes an ameba to the good ole boy club, and then a target to be run out of business somehow or the other....... The citizens should be ashamed that they have allowed this to happen to them over time.

That "good ole boy" system sure put Microsoft, Apple, Google, Yahoo and other rogues out of business, didn't they? It offends me that Westinghouse, General Electric, AT&T, Xerox and Hewlett-Packard did that.
Oh wait.
My bad.
They didn't.

Wow you just listed some of the members of the club... LOL

What happened to the thousands more that should be listed also ? Oh that's right the club is exclusive not inclusive as people might think that it is or maybe they want people to think they are when their not, but hec I don't know I might be dreaming about it all.

Hmmm seems I remember the government bringing what some sort of an (anti-trust???) lawsuit against Microsoft not so long ago, and they won that suit didn't they ? Didn't Microsoft have to make consessions in that suit or something ? The others have been on the hot seat also haven't they ?

Yep, the club that was Westinghouse, General Electric, AT&T, Xerox and Hewlett-Packard. I suppose the new club includes Microsoft, Apple, Google and Yahoo.
It's almost paranoid to claim to call them a "club".
Disruptive technologies have always leaped and smart companies have always embraced new tech/ideas.
I could have listed thousands more, but I have neither the time nor desire to do so. Just like I didn't list the extinct companies that failed to adapt.

 

[alan1]

Well aren't you quite the accomplished fellow.
You achieved your goal before you were even born.
You know, back in 1865 when slavery ended in the US.
Admirable

Good follow up to his words Alan, and hey Zombie you may want to try that again in a different way maybe, because Alan is right on with his response to your words.

Alan1 is cool. He actually adds to the discussion. If he took some umbrage, well, I'll just have to keep it cleaner.

And intelligent, and good looking, and a snappy dresser. Not to mention that ladies love him and men try to emulate him.

No umbrage, simply some disagreement

 

[Zombie_Pundit]

Hmmm, A side note to the site - These adds at the bottom of the page are interupting badly the experience here now, and in fact they are causing the computers to run slow and even lock up. Might want to look into it.

Beagle, set your plugins to not auto-enable.

It's a trick I learned surfing the web when I worked in the Capital helping Abraham Lincoln draft the Emancipation Proclamation...and fight vampires.

 

[Ernie S.]

No I am an old timer for whom I think if you new me, you might give me a little more respect than what you do.

I understand though, I mean that you are living in a world that has now been long since removed from the good old days for which we had known, and that probably you may never know and/or experience in your life other than maybe in the books you might read.

It's sad what this nation has become, and what it is bringing up in mentalities now.

Old timer? Sad really that you've lived so long and learned so little.
As to the text above that I bolded, I agree. I find you depressing.

I see you get your wottle feelings hurt easily, so all I can say to you is suck it up soldier or maybe find somewhere else where a person might agree with everything you say or want to say, because it sure ain't here in my postings that you will find such babying and cotteling in which you might expect to find while reading. I'm just sayin.

First of all, I'm probably very close in age to you. Secondly, you're not intelligent enough to hurt my "wottle???" feelings. As a matter of fact, I laugh at how easily you are made a fool of on a daily basis.

By the way! WTF is "cotteling"?

 

[Ernie S.]

I don't get the sense that Beagle wants to establish and operate a business but I do believe he wants the pace and gentility of a long gone time in America.
I'm confused as to why anyone with your resources wouldn't simply purchase ice making equip... oh, I get it.
Never mind.

My ice maker produces 195 lbs of ice/day and after a $2,100 purchase price, costs about 25 bucks a month for water, electricity and cleaning costs.

As a matter of fact, it was cleaned today for a bottle of Bud Lite.

Really, though, I have to tote 4, 5 gallon buckets of ice to the bar twice every day. I might be willing to pay for someone to deliver it to me, if I didn't have to tote the stuff. (where the hell is that tongue-in-cheek smiley???)

Really, Beagle I would love to see your business plan, if for nothing else than to see if you have any inkling of what it takes to provide a premium service to customers. I'm guessing you haven't a clue.

I'm sure beagle9 will gladly provide all that you request as soon as you promise to pay him enough money for him to pay his staff this mythical "living wage".

He's made no attempt so far... I did say I would invest if he came up with a viable business plan, but unfortunately, it appears he doesn't know what that means, yet he's advising me how to run my business. Yup! He's a Liberal.

 

[Ernie S.]

And you know why that is ? It's not because the citizens would put you out of business, but you would be forced out by your competitors who would use the good ole boy system to crush you because you are breaking the union in which they have created. You see they get together and only allow certain services and things at certain prices, but here a rogue owner is trying to do more, and to give someone more bang for their buck until he or she becomes an ameba to the good ole boy club, and then a target to be run out of business somehow or the other....... The citizens should be ashamed that they have allowed this to happen to them over time.

That "good ole boy" system sure put Microsoft, Apple, Google, Yahoo and other rogues out of business, didn't they? It offends me that Westinghouse, General Electric, AT&T, Xerox and Hewlett-Packard did that.
Oh wait.
My bad.
They didn't.

Wow you just listed some of the members of the club... LOL

What happened to the thousands more that should be listed also ? Oh that's right the club is exclusive not inclusive as people might think that it is or maybe they want people to think they are when their not, but hec I don't know I might be dreaming about it all.

Hmmm seems I remember the government bringing what some sort of an (anti-trust???) lawsuit against Microsoft not so long ago, and they won that suit didn't they ? Didn't Microsoft have to make consessions in that suit or something ? The others have been on the hot seat also haven't they ?

They didn't have a viable business plan. Kind of like you.

What's a consession?

 

[Ernie S.]

My goal is to stop you from enslaving children to work in your coal mine.

Well aren't you quite the accomplished fellow.
You achieved your goal before you were even born.
You know, back in 1865 when slavery ended in the US.
Admirable

I am a zombie, you know. It's kind of hard to tell when I was born.
In any case, it is evident that the person to whom I responded would like to repeal a number of laws, and maybe an amendment or two.

What amendment would that be? Please indicate with quotes how you have arrived at your opinion.

 

[Zombie_Pundit]

That "good ole boy" system sure put Microsoft, Apple, Google, Yahoo and other rogues out of business, didn't they? It offends me that Westinghouse, General Electric, AT&T, Xerox and Hewlett-Packard did that.
Oh wait.
My bad.
They didn't.

Wow you just listed some of the members of the club... LOL

What happened to the thousands more that should be listed also ? Oh that's right the club is exclusive not inclusive as people might think that it is or maybe they want people to think they are when their not, but hec I don't know I might be dreaming about it all.

Hmmm seems I remember the government bringing what some sort of an (anti-trust???) lawsuit against Microsoft not so long ago, and they won that suit didn't they ? Didn't Microsoft have to make consessions in that suit or something ? The others have been on the hot seat also haven't they ?

They didn't have a viable business plan. Kind of like you.

What's a consession?

Really? A misspelling? That's where this thread has gone.
Maybe that's an improvement over the theory proffered in this thread that minimum wage laws caused apartheid.
Do you have anything to add to a clean discussion on the minimum wage besides your usual hyperbolic vitriol?

 

[Zombie_Pundit]

Well aren't you quite the accomplished fellow.
You achieved your goal before you were even born.
You know, back in 1865 when slavery ended in the US.
Admirable

I am a zombie, you know. It's kind of hard to tell when I was born.
In any case, it is evident that the person to whom I responded would like to repeal a number of laws, and maybe an amendment or two.

What amendment would that be? Please indicate with quotes how you have arrived at your opinion.

What amendment would that be?

Sixteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But I strongly suspect you and your buddies of also wanting to repeal the 6th, 8th, 9th, 13th, 14th, 15th, 19th, and 24th. I can only confirm one at the moment.

Please indicate with quotes how you have arrived at your opinion.

I read your and your buddies' posts. Don't you people actually read the crazy stuff you write?

I oppose income taxation on principle.

Well, that gets right to the core of it. In my view, you're being bought off with special favors from the state. While I'd never disparage anyone personally for playing the "I got mine" game, I can't advocate for it as policy, especially when it perpetuates government that I consider ultimately corrosive to freedom.

Not a very effective buy-off, considering I already stated that I support repeal of the income taxe...

 

[AntiParty]

The Shocking Truth About What It Would Cost Us All If Walmart Paid A Living Wage

Watch the video.

$300,000,000 a year in food stamps just for walmart employees. Give them a living wage and we pay an extra 1.4% on their goods. One penny for every dollar spent at Walmart and those employees would not need to live on food stamps.

The deceiving thing about this video is that it assumes Wal-Mart "may have to" raise prices to pay it's employee's a living wage.......

What we see today is the top few keeping most and spending some to keep the workers blind.

Christie Walton is worth $36.7 Billion. Now, did she make all that money herself or was there a team involved that helped her make it?

Do YOU think she will become "unrich" if she allows Wal-Mart to pay a decent wage? Ever do the math on how much 1 billion split to all employee's in one year would do? (Of course this would make her only $35.7 Billion rich, what a struggle)

Big Corporations like Wal-Mart can buy media to convince small minds that their workers don't deserve a raise. And most buy it because we focus on the new workers, not the veteran workers.

They are also the reason for so much outsourcing.

America is a Monopoly today.

So it's time to start wondering why Christie Walton will be so upset when she only makes $35.7 Billion instead of this movement today questioning why Wal-Mart workers should be paid more. It's complete ignorance of business. What if she made only 1 Billion AND THE REST WENT TO HER WORKERS! OMG DRAMA!. SHE WOULD BE SO POOR!

 

[AntiParty]

How much are we willing to sacrifice Christie Waltons lifestyle to ensure the people running the stores that create her profits are compensated to support their family and not receive welfare.

Anyone who has seen the Documentary on Wal-Mart knows that Wal-Mart pushes it's Managers to give under paid employee's Welfare paper "hand outs" when they ask for a raise.

Why is it ok that Christie keeps so much yet the tax payers have to compensate for America's biggest employer?

 

[Andylusion]

How much are we willing to sacrifice Christie Waltons lifestyle to ensure the people running the stores that create her profits are compensated to support their family and not receive welfare.

Anyone who has seen the Documentary on Wal-Mart knows that Wal-Mart pushes it's Managers to give under paid employee's Welfare paper "hand outs" when they ask for a raise.

Why is it ok that Christie keeps so much yet the tax payers have to compensate for America's biggest employer?

You must be new to the thread, because we covered this already.

First off, you are *NOT* going to sacrifice Christie Walton lifestyle no matter what you do. There is no law you can make, no regulation you can enforce, that is going to cause Christie Walton the slightest discomfort.

You keep forgetting... she OWNS this company. If she and her fellow owners, are not compensated to the degree they wish, they could close the company, walk off with billions, and retire to small island with private servants to spend the rest of their lives in luxury.

Do you want jobs, or not? Do you want Walmart's 2.1 Million employees employed, or not?

It's like just yesterday, a guy at work was b!tch and moaning about the CEO going out and buying stuff for a work trip to Florida, and how wasteful it was.

Whether it was or not, is irrelevant. It's not his money. It's not your money. It's not your company. What part of this do you people on the left not get? It's not yours! "well blaw blaw blaw" Doesn't matter. IT IS NOT YOUR MONEY.

We used to have this concept in America "Nonya". Nonya business. You have no right whatsoever to talk about what other people should do with their money. Nonya.

And we both know right now, that if I came to your home and started complaining "you shouldn't have that, you could feed 15 orphan kids in Uganda with that money! You shouldn't buy those things. That's wasteful! How dare you spend all that money! Blaw blaw"

If I did that, you would tell me to shut up, and get off your property... AND RIGHTLY SO. It's none of my business what you do with your money.

How about we start applying those fundamentals to business owners as well? Nonya business what they do with their money. How America ended up with such nosy busy-bodies that run around sticking their fingers in everyone's business, is beyond me. How did we end up with such childish pathetic whiny people in our culture?

Secondly, and I have said this numerous times, any chain business, is setup so that each individual store is a separate business.

I don't know why this concept is so hard. Each store.... is run like a separate business. If your store doesn't have $10,000 extra, so that you can get a raise, then you can't get a raise. Doesn't matter what Walmart Corporate has. They could have TRILLIONS of dollars.

Your individual store has to make, or break payroll on it's own. Your store has to pay out it expenses alone. Doesn't matter what Corporate has. Corporate could have trillions, and if your individual store doesn't have money to pay you more, then it can't pay you more. Period.

And this last point proves it.

Thirdly, and this has been mentioned dozens of times, every single time that you try and harm the company, you only harm yourself.

I said at the very start, you are not going to 'sacrifice Christie Walton's lifestyle', and I meant it.

Every time that you pass a law, the only result is that the people harmed are yourself.

The reason is because every single penny that a company gets, is either by paying employees less, or charging customers more. And every time you pass a higher minimum wage, that is exactly what happens.

I was working at Wendy's back in the 90s. After Clinton increased the minimum wage, over the next year or two, Wendy's fired off all their part time employees. The remaining employees had to cover the jobs the fired employees did.

Further, they slowly over months and month, reduced the portion sizes. They shrank the size of the small medium and large, and then introduced the "Biggie" size with a higher price. The Biggie was actually the size of the original large. Large became the size of the medium, and the Medium the small, and Small was eliminated. For several years, Wendy's only had a medium, large and Biggie size drinks and fries.

In other words, they increased their prices.

Fast forward to today. Same thing happened after 2009. I just read an article just last week, that the average employees per Walmart store in 2007 when the minimum wage was $5.25, was 330 employees per store.

In 2010, when the minimum wage was up to $7.25, the average number of employees per store, was down to 270.

Walmart has 11,000 locations. That's a loss of 60 jobs per store. That's over half a million unemployed people that could have had jobs.

Now who 'sacrificed lifestyle' because of that minimum wage increase? Christie Walton? Or those half million unemployed? (hint: Not Christie. She's doing fine)

I just read yesterday, the retailers across the country are reducing the net-weight of consumer goods. So a box of Cherios at the store, now holds less Cherios, for the same price.

Again, who is 'sacrificing lifestyle' because of that minimum wage increase? Christie Walton? Or the 300 million people of the US that now have to pay a higher price for goods? (hint: Not Christie.)

Minimum wage hurts absolutely everyone, and especially the employees, EXCEPT for the rich and wealthy.

When you try and hurt the rich and wealthy, the only one you hurt is the poor and middle class. That's the way it ALWAYS works.

 

[RandallFlagg]

The Shocking Truth About What It Would Cost Us All If Walmart Paid A Living Wage

Watch the video.

$300,000,000 a year in food stamps just for walmart employees. Give them a living wage and we pay an extra 1.4% on their goods. One penny for every dollar spent at Walmart and those employees would not need to live on food stamps.

Has someone figured out the magic formula to define a "living" wage?

Or should each employee be paid according to how much money they need to "live?"

This statement will be the hallmark that the murderer Hillary Clinton is going to base her campaign on - I guarantee it. Her statement about "the cancer of inequality" is directed at stupid women in America and none others.

Her "unicorn and rainbow" idea of promising everything to women is all she has to run on. The unfortunate part? It might just work for this weasel of a woman. Appeal to the stupid women. Promise them socialism and "equality" while she goes on making millions.

Stupid, stupid sheep.

 

[Ernie S.]

I am a zombie, you know. It's kind of hard to tell when I was born.
In any case, it is evident that the person to whom I responded would like to repeal a number of laws, and maybe an amendment or two.

What amendment would that be? Please indicate with quotes how you have arrived at your opinion.

Sixteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But I strongly suspect you and your buddies of also wanting to repeal the 6th, 8th, 9th, 13th, 14th, 15th, 19th, and 24th. I can only confirm one at the moment.

I read your and your buddies' posts. Don't you people actually read the crazy stuff you write?

Well, that gets right to the core of it. In my view, you're being bought off with special favors from the state. While I'd never disparage anyone personally for playing the "I got mine" game, I can't advocate for it as policy, especially when it perpetuates government that I consider ultimately corrosive to freedom.

Not a very effective buy-off, considering I already stated that I support repeal of the income taxe...

The only Amendment I've seen anyone advocate repealing is the 17th. Ya see, Conservatives aren't into groupspeak. I have no control over, no responsibility for and no duty comply with what another Conservative says.
Very possibly, someone on the right has advocated repeal of the 16th.
I don't. I do however advocate a flat tax, or barring that, at the very least, a minimum 5% of gross pay, public assistance included. I advocate ending EITC. EVERYONE pays.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Uncensored2008 just got their poor little feelings hurt.

I am amazed at how thin the skin is on those who have nothing to add to the discussion but absurd hyperbole. They sure can't take a taste of their own medicine.

That leftism is based on ignorance fed from a stream of stupidity doesn't hurt my feelings - it hurts my wallet, but not my feelings...