This is... Catholic?!

[RandomVariable]

This video had some good documentary information of the Catholic church. The video is long, I haven't finished it myself, but the first 15 minutes cover the start of the church.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Given that none of the above is based upon reality all that matters is what kind of a person you are in this life, here and now.

Are you perceived as a kind, loving, compassionate person that others can depend upon for support. Are you loyal and trustworthy? Are you honest and straightforward when it comes to interacting with others?

Those are the qualities that matter IMO. Jesus summed them up as loving your fellow man but not many actually understand what that means in reality and therefore don't practice it.

So "salvation" is just a "get out of perdition free" card for those who don't measure up.

You so don't understand Christianity...... clueless....

Not my problem if what I post makes you uncomfortable.

Where do you get that I'm uncomfortable from me saying you don't understand Christianity and calling you clueless? Those tactics might work with your ignorant clients.......

What "ignorant clients" would those be?

You made an absurd claim that I don't understand christianity even after I summed it all up in a single statement for you.

Obviously that makes you uncomfortable for it to be exposed for what it really is.

Except that you are wrong, on both counts. Other than that....
Anyway, you do that a lot to people you know the trite "thank you for proving my point" and "I understand you are frustrated" etc. Making statements about people that just aren't true and/or at least you have no real way of knowing, but, by saying it (or typing it in this case) the idea is in the head of the "audience" (if anyone is really interested in reading this stuff) - kinda like saying something in court, and they strike it from the record! Like the jury can "unhear" something, I don't think so! Even if it's a blantant lie, the thought is there.... anyway.... doesn't matter......


I do get where you are coming from because I believe as you do for a long time.
When we're dead I guess we'll find out the truth.

I make those statements because they are an accurate reflection of what just transpired.

Yes, you are uncomfortable with the fact that your religion is nothing more than a "get our of perdition free" card if you say the "magic words".

And you have no idea how close to the truth you just came with your final statement that we will only find out when we are dead.

No one knows what happens after we die, no one at all. Anyone who tells you that they do are lying. In fact that is one of the surest ways to know that they are lying to you.

So yes, when we die there are two possibilities.

1. We are dead and that is the end and all that mattered about our lives is the love we left behind for those who are still alive.

2. There is an afterlife and that may or may not be anything remotely like what your religion claims. You never entered this life with any awareness of what it was going to be like so why do you imagine that it is going to be any different in the next one?

Even in the one in a trillion, trillion, trillion possibilities that it does end up the way you imagine it might be you are going to find yourself at those "pearly gates" with your "get out of perdition free" card clutched in your sweaty hands. Whatever unfortunate minion has been put on bouncer duty that day will be turning pretty much everyone away because none of those "get out of perdition free" cards are worth anything at all and you are just another one of a billion refugees trying to illegally immigrate into the "promised land".

So you will end up in some squatter slum on the outside of the gates singing hymns and wondering what you did wrong and without a clue how to deal with the situation.

Yup, heaven isn't what you imagined it to be and the seating limit of 144,000 was filled a long time ago and there are no vacancies for all of eternity to come.

 

[Bonzi]

You so don't understand Christianity...... clueless....

Not my problem if what I post makes you uncomfortable.

Where do you get that I'm uncomfortable from me saying you don't understand Christianity and calling you clueless? Those tactics might work with your ignorant clients.......

What "ignorant clients" would those be?

You made an absurd claim that I don't understand christianity even after I summed it all up in a single statement for you.

Obviously that makes you uncomfortable for it to be exposed for what it really is.

Except that you are wrong, on both counts. Other than that....
Anyway, you do that a lot to people you know the trite "thank you for proving my point" and "I understand you are frustrated" etc. Making statements about people that just aren't true and/or at least you have no real way of knowing, but, by saying it (or typing it in this case) the idea is in the head of the "audience" (if anyone is really interested in reading this stuff) - kinda like saying something in court, and they strike it from the record! Like the jury can "unhear" something, I don't think so! Even if it's a blantant lie, the thought is there.... anyway.... doesn't matter......


I do get where you are coming from because I believe as you do for a long time.
When we're dead I guess we'll find out the truth.

I make those statements because they are an accurate reflection of what just transpired.

Yes, you are uncomfortable with the fact that your religion is nothing more than a "get our of perdition free" card if you say the "magic words".

And you have no idea how close to the truth you just came with your final statement that we will only find out when we are dead.

No one knows what happens after we die, no one at all. Anyone who tells you that they do are lying. In fact that is one of the surest ways to know that they are lying to you.

So yes, when we die there are two possibilities.

1. We are dead and that is the end and all that mattered about our lives is the love we left behind for those who are still alive.

2. There is an afterlife and that may or may not be anything remotely like what your religion claims. You never entered this life with any awareness of what it was going to be like so why do you imagine that it is going to be any different in the next one?

Even in the one in a trillion, trillion, trillion possibilities that it does end up the way you imagine it might be you are going to find yourself at those "pearly gates" with your "get out of perdition free" card clutched in your sweaty hands. Whatever unfortunate minion has been put on bouncer duty that day will be turning pretty much everyone away because none of those "get out of perdition free" cards are worth anything at all and you are just another one of a billion refugees trying to illegally immigrate into the "promised land".

So you will end up in some squatter slum on the outside of the gates singing hymns and wondering what you did wrong and without a clue how to deal with the situation.

Yup, heaven isn't what you imagined it to be and the seating limit of 144,000 was filled a long time ago and there are no vacancies for all of eternity to come.

Okay so you are telling me you know what I feel. How is that?

 

[Derideo_Te]

Not my problem if what I post makes you uncomfortable.

Where do you get that I'm uncomfortable from me saying you don't understand Christianity and calling you clueless? Those tactics might work with your ignorant clients.......

What "ignorant clients" would those be?

You made an absurd claim that I don't understand christianity even after I summed it all up in a single statement for you.

Obviously that makes you uncomfortable for it to be exposed for what it really is.

Except that you are wrong, on both counts. Other than that....
Anyway, you do that a lot to people you know the trite "thank you for proving my point" and "I understand you are frustrated" etc. Making statements about people that just aren't true and/or at least you have no real way of knowing, but, by saying it (or typing it in this case) the idea is in the head of the "audience" (if anyone is really interested in reading this stuff) - kinda like saying something in court, and they strike it from the record! Like the jury can "unhear" something, I don't think so! Even if it's a blantant lie, the thought is there.... anyway.... doesn't matter......


I do get where you are coming from because I believe as you do for a long time.
When we're dead I guess we'll find out the truth.

I make those statements because they are an accurate reflection of what just transpired.

Yes, you are uncomfortable with the fact that your religion is nothing more than a "get our of perdition free" card if you say the "magic words".

And you have no idea how close to the truth you just came with your final statement that we will only find out when we are dead.

No one knows what happens after we die, no one at all. Anyone who tells you that they do are lying. In fact that is one of the surest ways to know that they are lying to you.

So yes, when we die there are two possibilities.

1. We are dead and that is the end and all that mattered about our lives is the love we left behind for those who are still alive.

2. There is an afterlife and that may or may not be anything remotely like what your religion claims. You never entered this life with any awareness of what it was going to be like so why do you imagine that it is going to be any different in the next one?

Even in the one in a trillion, trillion, trillion possibilities that it does end up the way you imagine it might be you are going to find yourself at those "pearly gates" with your "get out of perdition free" card clutched in your sweaty hands. Whatever unfortunate minion has been put on bouncer duty that day will be turning pretty much everyone away because none of those "get out of perdition free" cards are worth anything at all and you are just another one of a billion refugees trying to illegally immigrate into the "promised land".

So you will end up in some squatter slum on the outside of the gates singing hymns and wondering what you did wrong and without a clue how to deal with the situation.

Yup, heaven isn't what you imagined it to be and the seating limit of 144,000 was filled a long time ago and there are no vacancies for all of eternity to come.

Okay so you are telling me you know what I feel. How is that?

So you are now trying to convince everyone that you have no problem whatsoever with my characterization of your religion?

Even after all of your endless posts about what it means to be a christian?

Pull the other one, it has bells on it.

 

[Bonzi]

Where do you get that I'm uncomfortable from me saying you don't understand Christianity and calling you clueless? Those tactics might work with your ignorant clients.......

What "ignorant clients" would those be?

You made an absurd claim that I don't understand christianity even after I summed it all up in a single statement for you.

Obviously that makes you uncomfortable for it to be exposed for what it really is.

Except that you are wrong, on both counts. Other than that....
Anyway, you do that a lot to people you know the trite "thank you for proving my point" and "I understand you are frustrated" etc. Making statements about people that just aren't true and/or at least you have no real way of knowing, but, by saying it (or typing it in this case) the idea is in the head of the "audience" (if anyone is really interested in reading this stuff) - kinda like saying something in court, and they strike it from the record! Like the jury can "unhear" something, I don't think so! Even if it's a blantant lie, the thought is there.... anyway.... doesn't matter......


I do get where you are coming from because I believe as you do for a long time.
When we're dead I guess we'll find out the truth.

I make those statements because they are an accurate reflection of what just transpired.

Yes, you are uncomfortable with the fact that your religion is nothing more than a "get our of perdition free" card if you say the "magic words".

And you have no idea how close to the truth you just came with your final statement that we will only find out when we are dead.

No one knows what happens after we die, no one at all. Anyone who tells you that they do are lying. In fact that is one of the surest ways to know that they are lying to you.

So yes, when we die there are two possibilities.

1. We are dead and that is the end and all that mattered about our lives is the love we left behind for those who are still alive.

2. There is an afterlife and that may or may not be anything remotely like what your religion claims. You never entered this life with any awareness of what it was going to be like so why do you imagine that it is going to be any different in the next one?

Even in the one in a trillion, trillion, trillion possibilities that it does end up the way you imagine it might be you are going to find yourself at those "pearly gates" with your "get out of perdition free" card clutched in your sweaty hands. Whatever unfortunate minion has been put on bouncer duty that day will be turning pretty much everyone away because none of those "get out of perdition free" cards are worth anything at all and you are just another one of a billion refugees trying to illegally immigrate into the "promised land".

So you will end up in some squatter slum on the outside of the gates singing hymns and wondering what you did wrong and without a clue how to deal with the situation.

Yup, heaven isn't what you imagined it to be and the seating limit of 144,000 was filled a long time ago and there are no vacancies for all of eternity to come.

Okay so you are telling me you know what I feel. How is that?

So you are now trying to convince everyone that you have no problem whatsoever with my characterization of your religion?

Even after all of your endless posts about what it means to be a christian?

Pull the other one, it has bells on it.

I reply to you because I want to stand up for God.
It's for Him not for me.
People are going to think what they think, and believe what they will believe, however, if God puts it on my heart and mind to say something that may soften someone's heart towards Him, it's worth it.

 

[Derideo_Te]

What "ignorant clients" would those be?

You made an absurd claim that I don't understand christianity even after I summed it all up in a single statement for you.

Obviously that makes you uncomfortable for it to be exposed for what it really is.

Except that you are wrong, on both counts. Other than that....
Anyway, you do that a lot to people you know the trite "thank you for proving my point" and "I understand you are frustrated" etc. Making statements about people that just aren't true and/or at least you have no real way of knowing, but, by saying it (or typing it in this case) the idea is in the head of the "audience" (if anyone is really interested in reading this stuff) - kinda like saying something in court, and they strike it from the record! Like the jury can "unhear" something, I don't think so! Even if it's a blantant lie, the thought is there.... anyway.... doesn't matter......


I do get where you are coming from because I believe as you do for a long time.
When we're dead I guess we'll find out the truth.

I make those statements because they are an accurate reflection of what just transpired.

Yes, you are uncomfortable with the fact that your religion is nothing more than a "get our of perdition free" card if you say the "magic words".

And you have no idea how close to the truth you just came with your final statement that we will only find out when we are dead.

No one knows what happens after we die, no one at all. Anyone who tells you that they do are lying. In fact that is one of the surest ways to know that they are lying to you.

So yes, when we die there are two possibilities.

1. We are dead and that is the end and all that mattered about our lives is the love we left behind for those who are still alive.

2. There is an afterlife and that may or may not be anything remotely like what your religion claims. You never entered this life with any awareness of what it was going to be like so why do you imagine that it is going to be any different in the next one?

Even in the one in a trillion, trillion, trillion possibilities that it does end up the way you imagine it might be you are going to find yourself at those "pearly gates" with your "get out of perdition free" card clutched in your sweaty hands. Whatever unfortunate minion has been put on bouncer duty that day will be turning pretty much everyone away because none of those "get out of perdition free" cards are worth anything at all and you are just another one of a billion refugees trying to illegally immigrate into the "promised land".

So you will end up in some squatter slum on the outside of the gates singing hymns and wondering what you did wrong and without a clue how to deal with the situation.

Yup, heaven isn't what you imagined it to be and the seating limit of 144,000 was filled a long time ago and there are no vacancies for all of eternity to come.

Okay so you are telling me you know what I feel. How is that?

So you are now trying to convince everyone that you have no problem whatsoever with my characterization of your religion?

Even after all of your endless posts about what it means to be a christian?

Pull the other one, it has bells on it.

I reply to you because I want to stand up for God.
It's for Him not for me.
People are going to think what they think, and believe what they will believe, however, if God puts it on my heart and mind to say something that may soften someone's heart towards Him, it's worth it.

Did you ever stop and wonder if your god isn't trying to tell you something via what I am posting?

Think about it!

Or not!

Whatever floats your boat.

 

[Bonzi]

Except that you are wrong, on both counts. Other than that....
Anyway, you do that a lot to people you know the trite "thank you for proving my point" and "I understand you are frustrated" etc. Making statements about people that just aren't true and/or at least you have no real way of knowing, but, by saying it (or typing it in this case) the idea is in the head of the "audience" (if anyone is really interested in reading this stuff) - kinda like saying something in court, and they strike it from the record! Like the jury can "unhear" something, I don't think so! Even if it's a blantant lie, the thought is there.... anyway.... doesn't matter......


I do get where you are coming from because I believe as you do for a long time.
When we're dead I guess we'll find out the truth.

I make those statements because they are an accurate reflection of what just transpired.

Yes, you are uncomfortable with the fact that your religion is nothing more than a "get our of perdition free" card if you say the "magic words".

And you have no idea how close to the truth you just came with your final statement that we will only find out when we are dead.

No one knows what happens after we die, no one at all. Anyone who tells you that they do are lying. In fact that is one of the surest ways to know that they are lying to you.

So yes, when we die there are two possibilities.

1. We are dead and that is the end and all that mattered about our lives is the love we left behind for those who are still alive.

2. There is an afterlife and that may or may not be anything remotely like what your religion claims. You never entered this life with any awareness of what it was going to be like so why do you imagine that it is going to be any different in the next one?

Even in the one in a trillion, trillion, trillion possibilities that it does end up the way you imagine it might be you are going to find yourself at those "pearly gates" with your "get out of perdition free" card clutched in your sweaty hands. Whatever unfortunate minion has been put on bouncer duty that day will be turning pretty much everyone away because none of those "get out of perdition free" cards are worth anything at all and you are just another one of a billion refugees trying to illegally immigrate into the "promised land".

So you will end up in some squatter slum on the outside of the gates singing hymns and wondering what you did wrong and without a clue how to deal with the situation.

Yup, heaven isn't what you imagined it to be and the seating limit of 144,000 was filled a long time ago and there are no vacancies for all of eternity to come.

Okay so you are telling me you know what I feel. How is that?

So you are now trying to convince everyone that you have no problem whatsoever with my characterization of your religion?

Even after all of your endless posts about what it means to be a christian?

Pull the other one, it has bells on it.

I reply to you because I want to stand up for God.
It's for Him not for me.
People are going to think what they think, and believe what they will believe, however, if God puts it on my heart and mind to say something that may soften someone's heart towards Him, it's worth it.

Did you ever stop and wonder if your god isn't trying to tell you something via what I am posting?

Think about it!

Or not!

Whatever floats your boat.

I've talked about this extensively with non-believers and other various believers of other things, so, it's really not new. I'm sure it's not new for you either. But I like to put it out there regardless...

 

[JakeStarkey]

Catholicism is not my preferred denomination at all.

Like almost all religious organizations, it has its good and not so good.

Consider Jere's pentecostalism: she is very dedicated to Jesus but she thinks the KJV and her preferred worship are necessary to salvation, when in fact scripture is very clear that it is accepting Jesus as one's savior.

Other than accepting Jesus as your savior, do you believe anything else is required for salvation?

Sure, but that is not for a denomination to decide. Look how Jere has her head twisted around worrying

 

[JakeStarkey]

Silliest statement of the day so far, "Given that none of the above is based upon reality all that matters is what kind of a person you are in this life, here and now."

That is merely your opinion, for we have not the tools empircally or logically to prove it.

In that sense, an atheist is no more and no less a believer than a religionists.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Silliest statement of the day so far, "Given that none of the above is based upon reality all that matters is what kind of a person you are in this life, here and now."

That is merely your opinion, for we have not the tools empircally or logically to prove it.

In that sense, an atheist is no more and no less a believer than a religionists.

You are looking at that statement as a theist.

Take off the theist glasses and imagine what would be considered to be a good life if this was all there was and nothing else?

 

[JakeStarkey]

I am looking at your statement as one who understands language and logic.

You can assert, opine, and say what you want, but you don't have the tools necessary to prove it.

 

[Bonzi]

 

[Derideo_Te]

I am looking at your statement as one who understands language and logic.

You can assert, opine, and say what you want, but you don't have the tools necessary to prove it.

I know, and you know, and everyone else knows what constitutes a good person in this life.

For that we have the tools necessary. It isn't rocket science to tell the difference between a good person and one who isn't.

Even dogs can do it instinctively and so can babies.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Consider Jere's pentecostalism: she is very dedicated to Jesus but she thinks the KJV and her preferred worship are necessary to salvation, when in fact scripture is very clear that it is accepting Jesus as one's savior.

Who is Jere?

Good values and principles are common to all people.

Yes, there is "common ground" when it comes to those values because they are common to all of us.

My experience so far has been that I'm quite alone in my worldview. I'm unsure of it even having a definite name. Apparently it's similar to a traditionalist Catholicism without the Bible, pope, or religion, as scary as that is to say.

As far as the topic of abortion goes there is no "sanctity of life" IMO. That too is religious BS. A zygote/fetus is only entitled to whatever "rights" the woman bearing it is willing and/or able to provide it. That is her decision and no one else gets to decide it for her. She makes the decision and has to live with it either way. As a male I am will support whatever decision she makes but that is all I can do without imposing on her individual rights.

Three intrinsic aspects of this apparently nameless philosophy are that a living thing has inherent and inalienable value, that the right to continue living is the most basic right upon which all others depend, and that nobody has the authority to determine another's level of personhood or strip them of their personhood for any reason.

And no, the fetus only has what the law allows under the RvW decision which I recommend that you read if you haven't already.

I'm going to assume that you're aware we regard RvW as a mistaken decision little different than Dred Scott v Sanford or Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission.

So let's recap the Catholics have been around long before you were born and now you claim they copied off of you?

I simply find it disturbing that my personal ethics would match well with traditionalist Catholic thought.

You do know atheism is a New religion correct?

I do not because atheism is not a religion.

My ass you were not influenced by religion....

Any influence would be... regrettable...

Other wise you would be like the american Indians.

I'm unsure what you mean by this. It seems you're implying something racist.

All children are born atheists and have natural tendencies towards good values. As they grow up they leave behind selfishness.

It might be disingenuous to claim that all children are born atheists. Their disbelief isn't from rejection. It's from a lack of capability to understand the idea of a god whatsoever.

You are looking at that statement as a theist.

Take off the theist glasses and imagine what would be considered to be a good life if this was all there was and nothing else?

I'm not sure it makes a whole lot of sense to tell a theist simply to stop seeing the world as a theist.

 

[Avatar4321]

Why would you feel offended at sharing values with anyone else? That makes no sense.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I'm going to assume that you're aware we regard RvW as a mistaken decision little different than Dred Scott v Sanford or Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission.

And might "we" be?

It might be disingenuous to claim that all children are born atheists. Their disbelief isn't from rejection. It's from a lack of capability to understand the idea of a god whatsoever.

Exactly my point. Everyone is born an atheist and must be taught religion.

I'm not sure it makes a whole lot of sense to tell a theist simply to stop seeing the world as a theist.

Jake is capable of looking at things from more than just a theist perspective. He is one of the intelligent posters here at USMB and there are not a whole lot of them to be found.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Why would you feel offended at sharing values with anyone else? That makes no sense.

The other party in question happens to be a vast corrupt organization that spends much of its time and money ensuring the spread of AIDS and sexual violence against minors throughout Africa, unhealthy attitudes towards contraception globally (which makes my job as an anti-abortion activist all the harder), and the safety of pedophiles and mobsters from prosecution. I'm not exactly the Church's biggest fan.

And might "we" be?

Those of us who regard it as a mistaken, politically motivated decision.

Exactly my point. Everyone is born an atheist and must be taught religion.

I guess in the same way that you could a half rotted skeleton bald?

Jake is capable of looking at things from more than just a theist perspective. He is one of the intelligent posters here at USMB and there are not a whole lot of them to be found.

Could you see the world through the eyes of an utterly convinced, devout Shi'a Muslim?

 

[Bonzi]

Exactly my point. Everyone is born an atheist and must be taught religion.

Missionaries go out into the fields, and tell folks about Jesus and they get saved on the spot.
No taught religion so, that is not true.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Exactly my point. Everyone is born an atheist and must be taught religion.

Missionaries go out into the fields, and tell folks about Jesus and they get saved on the spot.
No taught religion so, that is not true.

Do you want to try that post again?

 

[Bonzi]

Exactly my point. Everyone is born an atheist and must be taught religion.

Missionaries go out into the fields, and tell folks about Jesus and they get saved on the spot.
No taught religion so, that is not true.

Do you want to try that post again?

I'm under the weather so maybe I missed something, but no, I stand behind it.
You don't think people that have never heard about Jesus can be saved and accept Jesus as their Savior by hearing the Gospel for the 1st time?