Theses Senators who voted against Betsy DeVos, send their kids to private schools, not public....

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Here is what De Vos wants & most Republicans are happy to do t.

States would issue vouchers to every school age child. They can take that to any private school or cyber school they want. The kids no one wants will be dumped into grossly under funded public schools. Corporations & religious groups will run the schools. The vouchers will not cover the best schools or even the better schools.

This is allowing those upper middle class & wealthy to get help sending their kids to good private schools & dooming the rest to mediocre schools.

Republicans think government should be just deciding what corporation gets the contract to educate, jail, run Medicare, etc. We already see corporations buying legislators.

Why don't we just vote on a list of corporations to run the fucking entire government. Cut out the politician middle man.

No.....the kids who are discipline problems will also have vouchers........and there will be schools that will be created that will actually see to their needs...unlike current public school that simply warehouse them till mandatory graduation in their senior year.....

You guys still don't understand freedom of choice and how it creates new, better and less expensive items.....

Why would a school want to specialize in areas that cost more if they are getting less from the government?

Amateurs.

They won't be getting less from the government...they will get exactly what the government school gets....but they will have to actually educate children.

Total bullshit! They will be paying rent or loans to pay off their buildings. Most will not own the land where their school is located and will be subject to the whims of landlords. Those magic numbers everyone floats about the cost to educate the child builds schools, buys land, buys or contracts buses, pays administrators, teachers, custodians and the cafeteria workers.

Those funds are not included in " the money the schools gets". Again, you people are so sure of yourself and you don't know squat!

Nope......you are looking at it as someone trained in public school education.....you have blinders on where change and improvements can be made....

No. I am looking at it from someone who sees the problem is not in the schools but society in general.

Your solution is to destroy all of the schools so the problems of a few percent of school districts can be remediated. That is like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Do you take your car to your dentist to have it fixed? When you drains clog do you call an electrician? When you get sick, do you consult your garbage man?

Of course not! You find the best people who know how to solve the problem and let them do it. You don't let rank amateurs control your personal investments do you?

 

[Oldstyle]

No...they will make more and get better benefits...because new schools will need to hire the best teachers if they want parents to send their kids to their schools.....there are more parents that want to send their kids to charter schools than there are spaces...vouchers will change that.....

Why would a teacher want to go to a new school with lower salary, less benefits and longer working hours?

Because they will actually be paid more, have more control over their teaching methods and have better benefits......you have no idea how competition works because you have been inside the government education system so long, you don't understand how the customer having freedom of choice increases quality and lowers cost......

How are they going to get paid more?

The charter and private schools will not be in any financial condition to pay higher salaries. Why can't you see that?

Those schools will have to do much more with less because they will have costs for facilities that public schools already have in place.

You amateurs just cannot see the big picture.

No...they won't be wasting money the way government controlled schools do...the waste in the public school system is massive....the voucher schools will concentrate on educating children...not hiring more and more administrators who do nothing.....

If the government was in charge of supplying cell phones we would still have brick phones.....the magic of the customer having the freedom to choose and go to another school will make all schools better.....how you can't see that is pretty amazing.

Having been an administrator in the schools, let me tell you about the 16 hour days I put in at least 5 days a week and sometimes again on Saturday..

My current school has three administrators. They are usually the first to arrive and the last to leave.

You are completely clueless and that makes your ignorance all the more dangerous.

You work 80 plus hours a week as a public school administrator? Really? My brother is a high school principle. He works more than 40 hours a week but nobody in his entire school system works 80 plus hours a week. When I told him the hours you claim to be putting in...his question to me was WHY?

 

[Oldstyle]

No.....the kids who are discipline problems will also have vouchers........and there will be schools that will be created that will actually see to their needs...unlike current public school that simply warehouse them till mandatory graduation in their senior year.....

You guys still don't understand freedom of choice and how it creates new, better and less expensive items.....

Why would a school want to specialize in areas that cost more if they are getting less from the government?

Amateurs.

They won't be getting less from the government...they will get exactly what the government school gets....but they will have to actually educate children.

Total bullshit! They will be paying rent or loans to pay off their buildings. Most will not own the land where their school is located and will be subject to the whims of landlords. Those magic numbers everyone floats about the cost to educate the child builds schools, buys land, buys or contracts buses, pays administrators, teachers, custodians and the cafeteria workers.

Those funds are not included in " the money the schools gets". Again, you people are so sure of yourself and you don't know squat!

Nope......you are looking at it as someone trained in public school education.....you have blinders on where change and improvements can be made....

No. I am looking at it from someone who sees the problem is not in the schools but society in general.

Your solution is to destroy all of the schools so the problems of a few percent of school districts can be remediated. That is like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Do you take your car to your dentist to have it fixed? When you drains clog do you call an electrician? When you get sick, do you consult your garbage man?

Of course not! You find the best people who know how to solve the problem and let them do it. You don't let rank amateurs control your personal investments do you?

Actually a better analogy, Admiral would be...do you take your car to the Mercedes dealership where they charge you an arm and a leg for service...or do you take it to an independent mechanic that does the same job for half the money? It appears you want public education to be a monopoly run by the teacher's unions with parents having no say on what kind of an education their kid's receive. I'm sorry but that's NOT what parents want!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Why would a teacher want to go to a new school with lower salary, less benefits and longer working hours?

Because they will actually be paid more, have more control over their teaching methods and have better benefits......you have no idea how competition works because you have been inside the government education system so long, you don't understand how the customer having freedom of choice increases quality and lowers cost......

How are they going to get paid more?

The charter and private schools will not be in any financial condition to pay higher salaries. Why can't you see that?

Those schools will have to do much more with less because they will have costs for facilities that public schools already have in place.

You amateurs just cannot see the big picture.

No...they won't be wasting money the way government controlled schools do...the waste in the public school system is massive....the voucher schools will concentrate on educating children...not hiring more and more administrators who do nothing.....

If the government was in charge of supplying cell phones we would still have brick phones.....the magic of the customer having the freedom to choose and go to another school will make all schools better.....how you can't see that is pretty amazing.

Having been an administrator in the schools, let me tell you about the 16 hour days I put in at least 5 days a week and sometimes again on Saturday..

My current school has three administrators. They are usually the first to arrive and the last to leave.

You are completely clueless and that makes your ignorance all the more dangerous.

You work 80 plus hours a week as a public school administrator? Really? My brother is a high school principle. He works more than 40 hours a week but nobody in his entire school system works 80 plus hours a week. When I told him the hours you claim to be putting in...his question to me was WHY?

No. Your brother might be an elementary school PRINCIPAL and if he thinks his teachers are not working more than 40 hours a week, he is mortally clueless or his school sucks!

 

[Oldstyle]

For someone in education, Admiral...your word comprehension skills are a bit off! I didn't say my brother told me he didn't have teachers working more than 40 hours a week...i said that nobody in his school system works 80 plus hours a week. Care to try again?

 

[Oldstyle]

What is it exactly that you DO for those 80 plus hours a week?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Why would a school want to specialize in areas that cost more if they are getting less from the government?

Amateurs.

They won't be getting less from the government...they will get exactly what the government school gets....but they will have to actually educate children.

Total bullshit! They will be paying rent or loans to pay off their buildings. Most will not own the land where their school is located and will be subject to the whims of landlords. Those magic numbers everyone floats about the cost to educate the child builds schools, buys land, buys or contracts buses, pays administrators, teachers, custodians and the cafeteria workers.

Those funds are not included in " the money the schools gets". Again, you people are so sure of yourself and you don't know squat!

Nope......you are looking at it as someone trained in public school education.....you have blinders on where change and improvements can be made....

No. I am looking at it from someone who sees the problem is not in the schools but society in general.

Your solution is to destroy all of the schools so the problems of a few percent of school districts can be remediated. That is like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Do you take your car to your dentist to have it fixed? When you drains clog do you call an electrician? When you get sick, do you consult your garbage man?

Of course not! You find the best people who know how to solve the problem and let them do it. You don't let rank amateurs control your personal investments do you?

Actually a better analogy, Admiral would be...do you take your car to the Mercedes dealership where they charge you an arm and a leg for service...or do you take it to an independent mechanic that does the same job for half the money? It appears you want public education to be a monopoly run by the teacher's unions with parents having no say on what kind of an education their kid's receive. I'm sorry but that's NOT what parents want!

For about the ten thousandth time, let me explain it to you again!

TEACHER'S UNIONS HAVE ZERO IMPACT ON WHAT IS TAUGHT IN THE SCHOOLS. NOTHING. NADA. ZILCH. DOESN'T HAPPEN.

Why do you people cling so bitterly to something that is dead wrong? It is incredible stupidity is what it is!

Parents elect school boards that make all of those decisions. They get a say. Our school and every school where I have worked also has parents on some sort of committee to make decisions for the school.

When I was hired, the Site-Based Decision Making (SBDM) Council at my public high school decided whether to hire me or not, based on the principal's recommendation. Even he does not get the final say in who he hires. Two of those members are parents and three are teachers. I have sat as a teacher member of those type of boards. I know how they operate.

I am also on committees for my school in charge of curriculum, and technology. We make the decisions for the school. The union is not allowed.

Once again, you amateurs do not know what you are talking about, so why should we take any input from you?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

For someone in education, Admiral...your word comprehension skills are a bit off! I didn't say my brother told me he didn't have teachers working more than 40 hours a week...i said that nobody in his school system works 80 plus hours a week. Care to try again?

So, you are admitting your brother is a clueless? I guarantee there are multiple people who work that many hours. If not, they are in a lousy school putting out a lousy product. I have never worked less than 50 hours a week and I have been a teacher for 20 years.

 

[Oldstyle]

Did you want to explain what it is you're doing for 80 plus hours a week, Admiral...or did you want to rant some more in red caps?

 

[Oldstyle]

For someone in education, Admiral...your word comprehension skills are a bit off! I didn't say my brother told me he didn't have teachers working more than 40 hours a week...i said that nobody in his school system works 80 plus hours a week. Care to try again?

So, you are admitting your brother is a clueless? I guarantee there are multiple people who work that many hours. If not, they are in a lousy school putting out a lousy product. I have never worked less than 50 hours a week and I have been a teacher for 20 years.

Are you now claiming 50 hours as the median...or is it still over 80? Huge difference, Admiral!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

What is it exactly that you DO for those 80 plus hours a week?

Why should I bother telling you? Honestly, you know so very little about what goes on in education, you would not understand anyway. But here is my typical week.

I arrive at school at 7 am at the absolute latest every day. Class starts at 8 and I teach until 3pm. That's 40 hours a week right there. I tutor three days a week after school for my students. That's 43 hours. I grade papers for at least 2 hours each day, sometimes staying at school until after 6 pm. We'll be generous and say that I don't stay late on Fridays, so we will add another 8 hours, so we are up to 51. Each night I write my lesson plans and that takes about 2-3 hours because I teach 3 separate classes. Because we have no textbooks, I write SmartBoard presentations, edit worksheets for their classwork/homework, and then make up handouts containing notes and formulas we use. We'll go conservative and add another 10 hours. That's 61 hours. I also have to do a book study for my new teacher orientation classes because I am new to this district, despite having taught 20 years. That's a few hours a week, We'll add three for that so we are up to 64 hours. On Sundays, I have to watch professional development videos to get my required 24 hours in this year, so we'll add another 2 for that. That's a total of 66 hours. Oh, BTW, because my district held their professional development in the summer before I was hired, I paid nearly $200 out of pocket for the video courses that I am using.

I also sell tickets for sports events at school as part of my other assigned duties. I watch the restrooms between classes, which is about the only time I get to use those facilities. I do not have my own classroom because we are building a new school on-site and I am the new kid on the block. I push a cart with all of my instructional materials to 4 different classrooms throughout the day. Our teachers lounge contains two copiers, a refrigerator, a microwave (donated by yours truly) and our mailboxes. There are no chairs or desks. My planning period has me sitting at my desk/cart near an electrical outlet in a hallway so I can use my printer (bought and paid for by yours truly).

That's as a teacher. Now imagine being an administrator and having to supervise all of the after school sports and other activities,

Now, how about those apples?

 

[Markle]

Why should low and low-middle income parents be forced into a failing school? Shouldn't they be able to take the money poured into a failed school and attend a better school for their children?

No Child Left Behind gives students at failing schools the option to transfer to a passing school in the district. Some districts give students an array of choices but others restrict the choice to a single school.

Most parents when given a choice of transfer regardless of whether it's another district school, charter school, or a voucher for a private school, the majority chose to stay at the failing school. One of the reasons given is that failing schools get a lot of attention from the district, state, and the federal government. This usually means new leadership in the school, additional staff, and more funding.

Please show us your source and reputable links.

Are you even aware that the failed trillion dollar stimulus program took away the vouchers used for parents to attend a private school?

Obama's Hypocrisy

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

For someone in education, Admiral...your word comprehension skills are a bit off! I didn't say my brother told me he didn't have teachers working more than 40 hours a week...i said that nobody in his school system works 80 plus hours a week. Care to try again?

So, you are admitting your brother is a clueless? I guarantee there are multiple people who work that many hours. If not, they are in a lousy school putting out a lousy product. I have never worked less than 50 hours a week and I have been a teacher for 20 years.

Are you now claiming 50 hours as the median...or is it still over 80? Huge difference, Admiral!

I think you need the reading comprehension lessons. I was talking about administrators. You changed the topic.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Did you want to explain what it is you're doing for 80 plus hours a week, Admiral...or did you want to rant some more in red caps?

Apparently education bashers suffer from ADD, so I wanted to make sure it grabbed your attention.

 

[Markle]

What is it exactly that you DO for those 80 plus hours a week?

Why should I bother telling you? Honestly, you know so very little about what goes on in education, you would not understand anyway. But here is my typical week.

I arrive at school at 7 am at the absolute latest every day. Class starts at 8 and I teach until 3pm. That's 40 hours a week right there. I tutor three days a week after school for my students. That's 43 hours. I grade papers for at least 2 hours each day, sometimes staying at school until after 6 pm. We'll be generous and say that I don't stay late on Fridays, so we will add another 8 hours, so we are up to 51. Each night I write my lesson plans and that takes about 2-3 hours because I teach 3 separate classes. Because we have no textbooks, I write SmartBoard presentations, edit worksheets for their classwork/homework, and then make up handouts containing notes and formulas we use. We'll go conservative and add another 10 hours. That's 61 hours. I also have to do a book study for my new teacher orientation classes because I am new to this district, despite having taught 20 years. That's a few hours a week, We'll add three for that so we are up to 64 hours. On Sundays, I have to watch professional development videos to get my required 24 hours in this year, so we'll add another 2 for that. That's a total of 66 hours. Oh, BTW, because my district held their professional development in the summer before I was hired, I paid nearly $200 out of pocket for the video courses that I am using.

I also sell tickets for sports events at school as part of my other assigned duties. I watch the restrooms between classes, which is about the only time I get to use those facilities. I do not have my own classroom because we are building a new school on-site and I am the new kid on the block. I push a cart with all of my instructional materials to 4 different classrooms throughout the day. Our teachers lounge contains two copiers, a refrigerator, a microwave (donated by yours truly) and our mailboxes. There are no chairs or desks. My planning period has me sitting at my desk/cart near an electrical outlet in a hallway so I can use my printer (bought and paid for by yours truly).

That's as a teacher. Now imagine being an administrator and having to supervise all of the after school sports and other activities,

Now, how about those apples?

You knew all that you are whining about the day you decided to teach in a government school.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

For someone in education, Admiral...your word comprehension skills are a bit off! I didn't say my brother told me he didn't have teachers working more than 40 hours a week...i said that nobody in his school system works 80 plus hours a week. Care to try again?

So, you are admitting your brother is a clueless? I guarantee there are multiple people who work that many hours. If not, they are in a lousy school putting out a lousy product. I have never worked less than 50 hours a week and I have been a teacher for 20 years.

Are you now claiming 50 hours as the median...or is it still over 80? Huge difference, Admiral!

Can you read? I was talking about me personally. I'll highlight it in red text again. Does that help?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

What is it exactly that you DO for those 80 plus hours a week?

Why should I bother telling you? Honestly, you know so very little about what goes on in education, you would not understand anyway. But here is my typical week.

I arrive at school at 7 am at the absolute latest every day. Class starts at 8 and I teach until 3pm. That's 40 hours a week right there. I tutor three days a week after school for my students. That's 43 hours. I grade papers for at least 2 hours each day, sometimes staying at school until after 6 pm. We'll be generous and say that I don't stay late on Fridays, so we will add another 8 hours, so we are up to 51. Each night I write my lesson plans and that takes about 2-3 hours because I teach 3 separate classes. Because we have no textbooks, I write SmartBoard presentations, edit worksheets for their classwork/homework, and then make up handouts containing notes and formulas we use. We'll go conservative and add another 10 hours. That's 61 hours. I also have to do a book study for my new teacher orientation classes because I am new to this district, despite having taught 20 years. That's a few hours a week, We'll add three for that so we are up to 64 hours. On Sundays, I have to watch professional development videos to get my required 24 hours in this year, so we'll add another 2 for that. That's a total of 66 hours. Oh, BTW, because my district held their professional development in the summer before I was hired, I paid nearly $200 out of pocket for the video courses that I am using.

I also sell tickets for sports events at school as part of my other assigned duties. I watch the restrooms between classes, which is about the only time I get to use those facilities. I do not have my own classroom because we are building a new school on-site and I am the new kid on the block. I push a cart with all of my instructional materials to 4 different classrooms throughout the day. Our teachers lounge contains two copiers, a refrigerator, a microwave (donated by yours truly) and our mailboxes. There are no chairs or desks. My planning period has me sitting at my desk/cart near an electrical outlet in a hallway so I can use my printer (bought and paid for by yours truly).

That's as a teacher. Now imagine being an administrator and having to supervise all of the after school sports and other activities,

Now, how about those apples?

You knew all that you are whining about the day you decided to teach in a government school.

You made the choice to ignore all of the sacrifices that teachers make, dismissing them as union pawns who don't care about their students. I find your ignorance of reality very disturbing.

 

[Markle]

Here is what De Vos wants & most Republicans are happy to do t.

States would issue vouchers to every school age child. They can take that to any private school or cyber school they want. The kids no one wants will be dumped into grossly under funded public schools. Corporations & religious groups will run the schools. The vouchers will not cover the best schools or even the better schools.

This is allowing those upper middle class & wealthy to get help sending their kids to good private schools & dooming the rest to mediocre schools.

Republicans think government should be just deciding what corporation gets the contract to educate, jail, run Medicare, etc. We already see corporations buying legislators.

Please provide your reliable sources and links.

Or is this some FAKE NEWS you swallowed from one of your beloved FAKE NEWS SITES?

 

[Markle]

Children do better in schools taught by union teachers than schools taught by the cheapest available teacher

National Education Association General Counsel Bob Chanin stated in July 2009.

Chanin: "It is not because we care about children. And it is not because we have a vision of a great public school for every child. NEA and its affiliates are effective advocates because we have power. And we have power because there are more than 3.2 million people who are willing to pay us hundreds of millions of dollars in dues...."



Says it all, does it not?

He's a lawyer! That is his J-O-B!

Glad you agree! Thanks!

 

[Yarddog]

Do you understand the term "Representative?" Representatives are supposed to vote and do things with the best interests of their constituents in mind, not what they do with their own kids. If they can afford to pay for a private school, and they want to send their kids to a private school, more power to them. This is a free country and that is their right to be able to do so. However, if they think it is in the best interests of their constituents NOT to have a voucher program that will hurt public schools which most of the kids of the people they represent attend... then they made the right choice.

US kids are among the last in Math and Science. How much more is someone going to hurt these schools? Maybe they are doing something wrong? It would be fair to let some of the poorer children have a chance to attend a better school. If those children not attending class in public schools affects funding, then maybe its time to revisit the way public schools are funded. Surely there must be someone intelligent enough to do this?