The worship of Satan: Has it led to genocide?

[Sallow]

Erm, you do know that Judaism does not include any belief in a 'Satan' as an embodiment of intelligent evil, as some supernatural entity in opposition to GOD - don't you?

The term 'ha-satan' is 'the adversary', and this refers to the 'job description' of an angel who is performing the duties assigned by the Almighty - duties which in RL would be performed by the DA's office.

People who are familiar with Christianity often make the error of assuiming that Judaism is 'Christianity minus Jesus'. However, Judaism is very UNlike Christianity. Starting with Genesis, there is no 'Fall', no 'Devil' (the talking snake is a talking snake!), no 'Hell'....... and ultimately no need to 'retire' the Sinai Covenant or 'replace' it with any other.

Here is one of THE best sites for reliable and accurate information on ANY religion: Religious Tolerance home page

I realize that's somewhat 'off topic', but the OP was inaccurate in its assumption with regard to Jewish belief and practice.

If someone else has already brought up this point, I apologize - but I wasn't patient enough to read all 11 pages right now!

There is a concept of Satan..but it's more of a concept then a being.

Christianity is alot like Greco/Roman mythology.

But the big three..are pretty similar in other ways.

 

[logical4u]

No...Christians are know to go far out of their way to hurt other people. Way far. From Europe they did their "mighty" crusades in the middle east. And if that weren't enough, they traveled to asia and the americas to "convert the heathens".

The muslim hordes were "invading" Christian lands. The Crusaders were a defensive measure (without their actions, you to could be grabbing your ankles and bowing to the east).

IMHO, the conversions were a response to the muslims repeated attacks and invasions; they figured if they did it first, they would have to fight less people in the future.

Now, be honest, would you rather live in a predominately Christian nation or a predominately muslim nation?

Oh yeah..

Constantinople was deep in the heart of Europe.

Oh wait.

Do you have to turn down your socks to see? You must be extremely short so that the statement "Christian lands" went over your head.

After the Roman empire fell, Christianity was the closest thing to "civilization", and Christian lands were throughout the ME, North Africa, the Mediterranian area, into Europe and even into the British isles. The muslim "hordes" were invading, killing, stealing (not that different than today) from any peoples that had "wealth". Your blind belief in a system of deceit, death, destruction, decay and dust explains a lot. Charles Manson could have used a follower like you.

 

[MHunterB]

The Vandals were Muslims?

And the Vikings, too????

 

[logical4u]

The Vandals were Muslims?

And the Vikings, too????

Vandals, is probably a good description for Vikings. It is not a good description for a system that demands everyone (EVERYONE) convert, be enslaved (subjugated to a far lower status), or be killed.

The Vikings went for poorly defended (that would be our country right now) communities of wealth (it wasn't fun attacking communities of old starving people). Not saying they were good people by any means, just the level of destruction was not as great as where muslims have invaded and oppressed the local populations.

BTW, Vikings were not originally "Christians". Most did not become "Christians" until after islam was in place. It might be that they rose to power because the "Christian community" sent many of its finest to fight the muslim hordes, leaving their own territories vulnerable.

 

[uscitizen]

Well, since most of human nature tends to side with the forces of good over evil, Satanism is probably very much a fringe religion with very few actual participants.... so no, they don't have the numbers or the power to do much of anything as dramatic as genocide.

Truthfully... All genocides are not of God, they are of man. Even the ones done in God's name. Man is his own worst enemy.

Done under gods direction.

Kill all who do not flee before you even the women and children and animals.
The story of Jericho.

 

[Uncensored2008]

The Vandals were Muslims?

And the Vikings, too????

Or the Moors, or the Berbers....

Oh wait...

 

[Uncensored2008]

Done under gods direction.

Kill all who do not flee before you even the women and children and animals.
The story of Jericho.

Oh wow, and that was just yesterday...


2012.07.26 (Khar, Pakistan) - Religion of Peace militants detonate a shrapnel bomb at a crowded market, leaving eleven dead and two dozen more in agony.
2012.07.25 (Bara, Pakistan) - Islamists kidnap a 70-year-old man, slit his throat and then spray him with bullets.
2012.07.25 (Maiduguri, Nigeria) - Sharia fanatics attack an Indian-owned business and murder the owners.
2012.07.25 (Ad-Dawr, Iraq) - Four children under the age of 10 are dismantled along with their mother by Religion of Peace bombers.
2012.07.25 (Gulbehar, Pakistan) - A 14-year-old girl is murdered when Lashkar e Jhangvi gunmen attack a Shia ceremony.
2012.07.24 (Ghor, Afghanistan) - Seven children are torn to shreds by a Taliban bomb.

 

[logical4u]

Well, since most of human nature tends to side with the forces of good over evil, Satanism is probably very much a fringe religion with very few actual participants.... so no, they don't have the numbers or the power to do much of anything as dramatic as genocide.

Truthfully... All genocides are not of God, they are of man. Even the ones done in God's name. Man is his own worst enemy.

Done under gods direction.

Kill all who do not flee before you even the women and children and animals.
The story of Jericho.

I know you guys want to pretend the Lord decided to wipe out these sweet, sweet people that never did anything wrong. When the Hebrews left Egypt, the Lord used these "slaves" to defeat some very, very proud and strong people. The Lord tells the Hebrews "why" these peoples are to be killed where they are (there is no indication that the Lord sent Hebrews all over the earth to "dispatch" any that survived, unlike some other "faiths"), and it did not have to do with gaining the land. That was easy for the Lord, He could have done that with famines or moving the elements. They were to be destroyed because they "sinned" against the Lord, and against man. They practiced human sacrifices in places that were special to the Lord. They disrespected (sound familiar) the Alph and the Omega, there time for improvement had ended.

The crusades were in defense of the slaughter of Christians throughout the "known" world by muslim hordes.

The inquisition "killed" approximately 5000 people in over 400 years (not nearly as many as we have all been led to believe).

Now, I will ask you the same question that I asked another liberal (who wouldn't answer the question): would you rather live in a predominantly Christian country or a predominantly muslim country?

 

[MHunterB]

I'd rather live in a nation which has a Constitution forbidding placing one religion above others, or allowing any discrimination on basis of religion, color, national origin, sexuality, gender, etc......

What religion my fellow citizens follow is not relevant: what is, is that the Law of the Land guarantees me the right to freely practice mine, and prevents them from interfering with that even when they are the hefty majority.

It's a matter of principle.

 

[theHawk]

As an atheist, I find it interesting that most religions need a whipping boy of sorts to promote their ideas. The major three (christianity, islam and judaism) have the concept of "Satan" to attach the faults of mankind too. However, there are religions that actually worship that deity as well. Just wondering, if there have ever been any major Genocides attributed to this practice?

Not sure how many "satan worshipers" have commited genocide, but I think its safe to say that atheists have killed far more people than satan worshipers.

Hell, Stalin alone was responsible for at least 20 million, if not nearly double that.

 

[daws101]

As an atheist, I find it interesting that most religions need a whipping boy of sorts to promote their ideas. The major three (christianity, islam and judaism) have the concept of "Satan" to attach the faults of mankind too. However, there are religions that actually worship that deity as well. Just wondering, if there have ever been any major Genocides attributed to this practice?

Not sure how many "satan worshipers" have commited genocide, but I think its safe to say that atheists have killed far more people than satan worshipers.

Hell, Stalin alone was responsible for at least 20 million, if not nearly double that.

buullshit:.Refuting the myth that Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot were atheists
atheismAugust 6, 2010
By: Al Stefanelli0 Email.Get Secular alerts!

It is a common talking point amongst Christians to attribute the horrors committed by infamous world leaders to atheism, and many times we are ill-equipped to refute those erroneous claims. In fact, last year, an Anglican Archbishop named Peter Jensen told his Australian congregation that atheism is not the rational philosophy that it claims to be. He stated, "Last century we tried godlessness on a grand scale and the effects were devastating: Nazism, Stalinism, Pol Pot-ery, mass murder, abortion and broken relationships - all promoted by state-imposed atheism…the illusion that we can build a better life without God." He further stated, "It's about our determination as human beings to have our own way, to make our own rules, to live our own lives, unfettered by the rule of God and the right of God to rule over us…What we're really seeing, once more [is] an example of the contest between human beings and God over who rules the world."

Atheist Foundation president David Nicholls says the comments are an act of desperation by the church. Personally, I think "desperation" is an understatement of epic proportions. There are so many things wrong with Jensen's statements that I had to sit here and stare at my screen for quite a while before I even found a starting point. I gave considerable thought to expounding on the sheer arrogance that a god rules the world regardless of whether or not anyone actually believes in one, the utterly ridiculous notion of a struggle between god and man, or their dogma about not being able to achieve peace, happiness and harmony in our society without their god. However, time being at a premium today, I decided to a different route.

First of all, there is no such thing as state-imposed atheism. A state can ban religion, but it cannot ban atheism because it is not a belief, a faith, a set of doctrines or dogmas and cannot be imposed on anybody. Atheism is an absence of belief, and you cannot ban something that does not exist. I have heard the argument so many times from believers who think that atheism is a belief. They compare it to a religion. They say it takes faith. They accuse us of hating god. Believers really need to find another line of fire, as all of these arguments only serve to make them look like complete idiots, which is unnecessary, as many believers are otherwise intelligent individuals. I will not bother to extrapolate the reasons why these are illegitimate arguments, as many of you already know the details. Those of you who don't can look them up yourselves, and perhaps better arm yourselves for the times when you are confronted by theists who offer them up.

Today, though, we are going to examine Jensen's claims about Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mass Murder and Broken Relationships. We'll start with the people he mentioned, and, as far as I'm aware, none of them said "I don't believe in god, therefore I will slaughter lots of innocent people". Let's start with Adolf Hitler…

On Adolf Hitler…

Christians have been trying to discredit Hitler's faith for decades, turning their eyes away from history books. From the earliest formation of the Nazi party he expressed his Christian support to the German citizenry and soldiers. He was baptized as Roman Catholic in Austria, attended a monastery school and was a communicant and an altar boy in the Catholic Church. He was confirmed as a "soldier of Christ" and his goal was to become a priest. He was never excommunicated or condemned and the church had stated that he was "Avenging for God" in attacking the Jews for they deemed the Semites the killers of Jesus. Look it up…

Hitler was given veto power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany and forged a treaty whereas the National Socialist state was officially recognized by the Catholic Church. In a letter to the Nazi party, he wrote "…this treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism is hostile to religion is a lie."

He allied with Pope Pius in converting German society and made a deal with the church whereas the church absorbed Nazi ideals and preached them as part of their sermons, and in turn, Hitler placed Catholic teachings in public education. This lead to Hitler enacting doctrines of the Church as law. He outlawed all abortion, raged a death war on all homosexuals, and demanded corporal punishment in schools and home.

He was quoted as stating, "The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity. It will be its honest endeavor to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines (Lehren), and in their duties to constitute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of today…Providence has caused me to be Catholic, and I know therefore how to handle this Church."

In fact, the Holocaust grew out of Hitler's Christian education due mainly to Jews having an inferior status in Christian Austria and Germany. The Christians there blamed the Jews for the killing of Jesus and the hatred that Hitler fostered against Jewish people began from the preaching of Catholic priests and Protestant ministers throughout Germany. It is well known that Martin Luther held a livid hatred for Jews and their religion. Luther wrote a book titled "On the Jews and their Lies" which set the standard for Jewish hatred all the way up to World War 2. Hitler, of course, expressed a great admiration for Luther.

The Nazis began to control schools insisting that Christianity was taught. They included anti-Semitic Christian writings in textbooks and were not removed from Christian doctrines until 1961. Nazi soldiers wore religious symbols and placed religious sayings on military gear. The official army belt buckle read "God With Us". They got sprinkled with holy water and listened to Catholic sermons before going out on maneuvers. The Nazis had a secret service called the "SS Reich" that would act as spies on the dealings of other citizens and if anyone was suspected of heresy they would be prosecuted.

Here are a few quotes from Hitler:

"We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out." -Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people." -Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922

"Christianity could not content itself with building up its own altar; it was absolutely forced to undertake the destruction of the heathen altars. Only from this fanatical intolerance could its apodictic faith take form; this intolerance is, in fact, its absolute presupposition." -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

Had enough of Hitler? OK, let's move on to Stalin:

Joseph Stalin was raised to be a Catholic Priest and I remain curious as to why his Christianity is shoved aside in all these arguments. Yes, there is no way to get around the fact that in his early career, Stalin made a vast effort to rid Russia of religion, but that had nothing to do with atheism. It was the only way he knew to seize power of the country.

For generations the entire populace of Russia had been taught that the head of state was supposed to be close to god. At the time in question, the head of the church in Russia was a tyrant. The Russians were already disposed to servility and all Stalin did was exploit these two facts, and place himself in the position of god. Once Stalin was firmly seated in office, he revived the Russian Orthodox Church in order to intensify patriotic support for the war effort. Stalin was part of a council convened to elected a new church Patriarch. Then the Russian theological schools were opened, and thousands of churches began to function. Even the Moscow Theological Academy Seminary was re-opened, after being closed since 1918.

So, while Stalin was no peach, he was not exactly what you would call a died-in-the-wool atheist. He was more a secular minded religious opportunist, which is a personal character trait. He did not use atheism to gain control, but religious principles that were modified to fit his own, sick and twisted method of revolution.

What about Pol Pot?

Truly a monster, having killed some twenty-five percent of the entire population of Cambodia. Pol Pot targeted not just different religions, but education, science and medicine in his quest for total domination. Now, let's take a head count of atheists who are against education, science and medicine. Thought so… Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge were composed of Buddhists and Pol Pot was a Theravada Buddhist. He studied at a Buddhist monastery and then at a Catholic school for 8 years. Cambodia's communism was influenced by Theravada Buddhism.

Prince Norodom Sihanouk said, "Pol Pot does not believe in God but he thinks that heaven, destiny, wants him to guide Cambodia in the way he thinks it the best for Cambodia, that is to say, the worst. Pol Pot is mad, you know, like Hitler."

So, while Pol Pot was definitely not a Christian, he was also definitely not an Atheist.

Refuting the myth that Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot were atheists - National atheism | Examiner.com

 

[Uncensored2008]

Not sure how many "satan worshipers" have commited genocide, but I think its safe to say that atheists have killed far more people than satan worshipers.

Hell, Stalin alone was responsible for at least 20 million, if not nearly double that.

Stalin murdered between 65 and 110 million, peace time civilians. Mao butchered between 35 and 50 million more. Atheism in 70 years accounts for more murder than all other religions combined over the last 3,000 years.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Anyone claiming that Stalin, Mao, or Pol Pot were not Atheists is a fucking liar.

 

[daws101]

Anyone claiming that Stalin, Mao, or Pol Pot were not Atheists is a fucking liar.

the queen of denial speaks

 

[Uncensored2008]

Anyone claiming that Stalin, Mao, or Pol Pot were not Atheists is a fucking liar.

the queen of denial speaks

Isn't the denial by those who lie about Stalin and claim the most violent Atheist in history was actually religious?

I mean, it's laughable in the absolute Orwellian absurdity of it all.

What to do over Stalin the Atheist being the most prolific mass murder in history? Well I know, well do the big lie thing and simply declare that he's no longer an Atheist, we'll just rewrite history to suit our agenda.

“Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth, and God from Heaven!” - Josef Stalin.

 

[daws101]

anyone claiming that stalin, mao, or pol pot were not atheists is a fucking liar.

the queen of denial speaks

isn't the denial by those who lie about stalin and claim the most violent atheist in history was actually religious?

I mean, it's laughable in the absolute orwellian absurdity of it all.

What to do over stalin the atheist being the most prolific mass murder in history? Well i know, well do the big lie thing and simply declare that he's no longer an atheist, we'll just rewrite history to suit our agenda.

“let us drive out the capitalists from the earth, and god from heaven!” - josef stalin.

can you rationalize any harder...

 

[Uncensored2008]

Those who would declare Josef Stalin not to be an Atheist are as credible as those who would declare Napoleon not to be French.

 

[Uncensored2008]

can you rationalize any harder...

Hey, if reality doesn't suit you, just lie.

Josef Stalin was no more an Atheist than Idi Amin was an African.

 

[daws101]

can you rationalize any harder...

Hey, if reality doesn't suit you, just lie.

Josef Stalin was no more an Atheist than Idi Amin was an African.

The Russians were already disposed to servility and all Stalin did was exploit these two facts, and place himself in the position of god. Once Stalin was firmly seated in office, he revived the Russian Orthodox Church in order to intensify patriotic support for the war effort. Stalin was part of a council convened to elected a new church Patriarch. Then the Russian theological schools were opened, and thousands of churches began to function. Even the Moscow Theological Academy Seminary was re-opened, after being closed since 1918.

So, while Stalin was no peach, he was not exactly what you would call a died-in-the-wool atheist. He was more a secular minded religious opportunist, which is a personal character trait. He did not use atheism to gain control, but religious principles that were modified to fit his own, sick and twisted method of revolution....
also you have no proof that Stalin's so called atheism was in any way responsible for his actions....
on the other hand christians have always been proud to kill in the name of god!

 

[Uncensored2008]

The Russians were already disposed to servility and all Stalin did was exploit these two facts, and place himself in the position of god.

Stalin didn't place himself in the position of god, he placed the state in the position of god.

Once Stalin was firmly seated in office, he revived the Russian Orthodox Church in order to intensify patriotic support for the war effort.

Utter bullshit.

The easing of the restrictions on religious practice began long before the war. Stalin eased some of the attacks on religion to consolidate his efforts against the Menshiviks. The oppression Stalin had been engaged in was being used by Trotsky's followers to create dissension to Stalin and the Bolsheviks. Stalin SLIGHTLY eased the oppression only to counter this.

Stalin was part of a council convened to elected a new church Patriarch. Then the Russian theological schools were opened, and thousands of churches began to function. Even the Moscow Theological Academy Seminary was re-opened, after being closed since 1918.

With the Communist party dictating content of services and teachings.

Such a deal the Atheists gave the Christians.

So, while Stalin was no peach, he was not exactly what you would call a died-in-the-wool atheist.

Stalin was an atheist to the very core, and proudly proclaimed it. Stalin was also a man who loved power and knew how to gain and keep it.

He was more a secular minded religious opportunist, which is a personal character trait. He did not use atheism to gain control, but religious principles that were modified to fit his own, sick and twisted method of revolution....

And?

also you have no proof that Stalin's so called atheism was in any way responsible for his actions....
on the other hand christians have always been proud to kill in the name of god!

Stalin was a Marxist, an Atheist, and the most prolific mass murderer in history. Despite your flaccid attempt to rewrite history, this remains fact.

Atheism is the most murderous religious system in all of history - this is a matter of fact.