The West´s silly Ukrainian ISIS Nazi Army

[Sbiker]

It is some kind of hybrid civil war invasion combination. Would there be a civil war without this big involvement from Russia? Could this civil war be fought without trained military from a neighboring nation assisting the so called rebellion? Ukraine citizens are in the rebellion, so that make it a civil war. Russia is using a tricky tactic and caught everyone by surprise. Putin said there were no troops in Crimea helping with the rebellion. Later we learned different. Was that a true rebellion?
Putin has given us a new kind of warfare and way for countries to invade neighbors. The west is struggling to find ways to stop this kind of tactic. Sending disguised troops across foreign borders is already illegal. That is why so much effort is made to deny it and refusal to admit what is obvious.
Other nations go to great effort with UN and international law to justify entering a sovereign nation. You can find ways that America has done this and say America has done just like Russia did in Ukraine. That would not be accurate. America always has some UN resolution or international agreement to fall back on. You can argue that the excuse may be being misused or distorted, but at least there is something to contest and debate. What justification does Russia give for having troops in Ukraine?

I think there have been not many civil wars without external meddling.

I think all that rebellion in Eastern Ukraine would have been stopped in the spring of 2014 if there hadn’t been Russian support. But at the same time, the hybrid war would be impossible without a great number of people in Donbass who support the so-called rebel movement.

It is may well be called a proxy war.

To tell you the truth, I don’t know where there lays a line which distinguishes a civil war from a proxy war or a proxy war from a hybrid war.

There was an invasion in Crimea. But I don’t think the war in Donbass may be called an invasion. I am pretty sure that there are Russian military trainers, advisors, technical specialists. I am pretty sure that there are deliveries of arms, ammunition, and military equipment from Russia. In all probability units of the Russian armed forces took part in battles in Ilovaisk and Debaltsevo. But at the same time I think that the majority of so-called rebels are local citizens.

We have a saying "a girl can not be a little bit pregnant". I believe Russian troops have been used in Ukraine. An invasion is an invasion. To say the troops only came to Ukraine a few times is like saying the girl is only a little bit pregnant.

You can believe in invasion, but it's fact you've mixed details.
Offcourse, Putin upkeeps rebels as he can - in other case he have a big risk from angry electorate in Russia. But where the facts, where Putin feed rebels with cookies, like Nuland? Where's facts?
Erofeev and Alexandrov? Ok, let's count. Ukraine has about 200.000 combatants in army (see To fight wiht it Russia must have similar group and really have about 200.000 in rapid-reaction forces. Only two captured from 200.000, which "take a part in war in Ukraine" during year??? It's lesser than statistic. With Russian and Ukrainian people are millions of relations, it's available for Ukrainian policemen to find two civilian guests with military experience from Russia and claim them as "spies".
Have you seen Esay's story about marauding in rebel's army? It's a fact, but no one regular army can allow marauding - it's seriously downs their fighting abitily. So, it's a fact, shows the rebel army is consist of cossacs, volunteers, some bandit groups etc. So, if we believe only facts, we have only invasion of Victoria Nuland on the streets of Kiev

 

[tinydancer]

It is some kind of hybrid civil war invasion combination. Would there be a civil war without this big involvement from Russia? Could this civil war be fought without trained military from a neighboring nation assisting the so called rebellion? Ukraine citizens are in the rebellion, so that make it a civil war. Russia is using a tricky tactic and caught everyone by surprise. Putin said there were no troops in Crimea helping with the rebellion. Later we learned different. Was that a true rebellion?
Putin has given us a new kind of warfare and way for countries to invade neighbors. The west is struggling to find ways to stop this kind of tactic. Sending disguised troops across foreign borders is already illegal. That is why so much effort is made to deny it and refusal to admit what is obvious.
Other nations go to great effort with UN and international law to justify entering a sovereign nation. You can find ways that America has done this and say America has done just like Russia did in Ukraine. That would not be accurate. America always has some UN resolution or international agreement to fall back on. You can argue that the excuse may be being misused or distorted, but at least there is something to contest and debate. What justification does Russia give for having troops in Ukraine?

I think there have been not many civil wars without external meddling.

I think all that rebellion in Eastern Ukraine would have been stopped in the spring of 2014 if there hadn’t been Russian support. But at the same time, the hybrid war would be impossible without a great number of people in Donbass who support the so-called rebel movement.

It is may well be called a proxy war.

To tell you the truth, I don’t know where there lays a line which distinguishes a civil war from a proxy war or a proxy war from a hybrid war.

There was an invasion in Crimea. But I don’t think the war in Donbass may be called an invasion. I am pretty sure that there are Russian military trainers, advisors, technical specialists. I am pretty sure that there are deliveries of arms, ammunition, and military equipment from Russia. In all probability units of the Russian armed forces took part in battles in Ilovaisk and Debaltsevo. But at the same time I think that the majority of so-called rebels are local citizens.

We have a saying "a girl can not be a little bit pregnant". I believe Russian troops have been used in Ukraine. An invasion is an invasion. To say the troops only came to Ukraine a few times is like saying the girl is only a little bit pregnant.

You can believe in invasion, but it's fact you've mixed details.
Offcourse, Putin upkeeps rebels as he can - in other case he have a big risk from angry electorate in Russia. But where the facts, where Putin feed rebels with cookies, like Nuland? Where's facts?
Erofeev and Alexandrov? Ok, let's count. Ukraine has about 200.000 combatants in army (see To fight wiht it Russia must have similar group and really have about 200.000 in rapid-reaction forces. Only two captured from 200.000, which "take a part in war in Ukraine" during year??? It's lesser than statistic. With Russian and Ukrainian people are millions of relations, it's available for Ukrainian policemen to find two civilian guests with military experience from Russia and claim them as "spies".
Have you seen Esay's story about marauding in rebel's army? It's a fact, but no one regular army can allow marauding - it's seriously downs their fighting abitily. So, it's a fact, shows the rebel army is consist of cossacs, volunteers, some bandit groups etc. So, if we believe only facts, we have only invasion of Victoria Nuland on the streets of Kiev

Now that is funny about Nuland.

 

[Tehon]

But then I don’t understand your logic. According to their opinion, the territory of Ukraine which they call Novorossia is historically Russian lands which must be returned back to Russia. Furthermore, if so-called Novorossia had really got to existence, it would have given good advantages to Russia in bargaining with the West. So, your statement that there would be no advance is somewhat doubtful, I think.

There is no effort to advance on Kiev. Far from giving Russia a good advantage it would do the opposite by escalating an already precarious situation. I don't believe my statement is doubtful, I believe you are living some fantasy, propagated by the West, that Putin is trying to reclaim the USSR. There is no evidence of this. Russia supports the Donbass in a far less than official capacity. So far less in fact that there really is no credible evidence of his support .

 

[ESay]

There is no effort to advance on Kiev. Far from giving Russia a good advantage it would do the opposite by escalating an already precarious situation. I don't believe my statement is doubtful, I believe you are living some fantasy, propagated by the West, that Putin is trying to reclaim the USSR. There is no evidence of this. Russia supports the Donbass in a far less than official capacity. So far less in fact that there really is no credible evidence of his support .

I am not talking about Kiev. Browse the Internet to find out what territories the rebels call Novorossia.

I have thought that we are talking about the events which may have happened a year ago or so, but didn’t happen. If the so-called rebels with indirect support from the outside had secured the lands of so-called Novorossia at that time, then I think that Russia would have good advantages for bargaining today.

If we are talking about the current situation, then I agree that a possible assault of the rebels is doubtful. As I said above, the Russian rulers are seeking a way out of this conflict, with an opportunity to save their face. Again, it is only my own opinion and nothing more.

I believe you are living some fantasy, propagated by the West,

You can believe in everything you want.

 

[Tehon]

There is no effort to advance on Kiev. Far from giving Russia a good advantage it would do the opposite by escalating an already precarious situation. I don't believe my statement is doubtful, I believe you are living some fantasy, propagated by the West, that Putin is trying to reclaim the USSR. There is no evidence of this. Russia supports the Donbass in a far less than official capacity. So far less in fact that there really is no credible evidence of his support .

I am not talking about Kiev. Browse the Internet to find out what territories the rebels call Novorossia.

I have thought that we are talking about the events which may have happened a year ago or so, but didn’t happen. If the so-called rebels with indirect support from the outside had secured the lands of so-called Novorossia at that time, then I think that Russia would have good advantages for bargaining today.

If we are talking about the current situation, then I agree that a possible assault of the rebels is doubtful. As I said above, the Russian rulers are seeking a way out of this conflict, with an opportunity to save their face. Again, it is only my own opinion and nothing more.

I believe you are living some fantasy, propagated by the West,

You can believe in everything you want.

Any advance, regardless of the territories considered as Novorossia, would be construed by Kiev and their puppet masters as an advance on Kiev.

 

[Tehon]

So, if we believe only facts, we have only invasion of Victoria Nuland on the streets of Kiev

And this is the fact that those pointing fingers at Putin ignore. None of this would be happening had it not been for Western support for the coup. A coup that was really unnecessary, Yanukovych had already agreed to step down and hold early elections. The financial institutions needed the coup because before Yanukovych left office he was threatening to secure a financial agreement with Russia against the wishes of the West.

 

[eagle1462010]

http://www.defense.gov/home/feature...n_Atlantic_Resolve_Fact_Sheet_11_JUN_2015.pdf

European Reassurance Initiative ERI is part of the Consolidated and Further Continuing Appropriations Act of 2015, signed by President Obama on December 19, 2014, included $985 million in ERI funds. These monies enable the Department of Defense to continue its efforts to reinforce America’s solemn commitment to the safety and territorial integrity of our allies and to strengthen the security and capacity of our partners in the region. The ERI enables the DoD to, among other things: Continue Operation Atlantic Resolve, which includes conducting military exercises and training on land, in the air and at sea, while sustaining a rotational presence across Europe; and increase the responsiveness of U.S. forces to reinforce NATO by exploring initiatives such as prepositioning of equipment and enhancing reception facilities in Europe. ERI funding will help increase the capability, readiness and responsiveness of NATO forces, primarily through the funding of rotational force presence in Eastern Europe, as well as through the improvement of ground and air training and staging sites. Combined training and theater security cooperation engagements with our Allies and partners demonstrate that we share a commitment to promoting a Europe that is whole, free and at peace. The ERI is already increasing responsiveness and readiness by pre-positioning ammunition, fuel and equipment for use in regional training and exercises, as well as improving infrastructure that enhances NATO operations and enables Eastern Allies to rapidly receive reinforcements. For more information on ERI, go to: EUCOM provides update on the European Reassurance Initiative United States European Command

 

[eagle1462010]

OPERATION ATLANTIC RESOLVE

Is the United States and NATO'S to Russian aggression in Ukraine...........In post 187 you can see the specific operations of in your face tactics directed at Russia in Cold War Style in your face operations.........................

Operation Atlantic Resolve

U.S. European Command lists 4 specific operations inside Ukraine.........click the pins on the map.

 

[eagle1462010]

Senate Armed Services Committee Opening Statement by General Phil Breedlove Commander U.S. European Command United States European Command

Our top concern is a revanchist Russia.

Russia is blatantly challenging the rules and principles that have been the bedrock of European security for decades. The challenge is global. not regional. and enduring. not temporary. Russian aggression is clearly visible in its illegal occupation of Crimea, and in its continued operations in eastern Ukraine.

In Ukraine, Russia has supplied their proxies with heavy weapons, training and mentoring, command and control, artillery fire support, and tactical-and operational-level air defense,. Russia has transferred many pieces of military equipment into Ukraine, including tanks, armored personnel carriers, heavy artillery pieces, and other military vehicles.

What we have seen over the course of the fight, was that when the Russian proxy offensive ran into trouble, Russian forces intervened directly to "right the course."

Today on the ground, the situation is volatile and fragile. Russian forces used the opportunities provided by the recent lull in fighting to re-set and re-position, while protecting their gains. Many of their actions are consistent with preparations for another offensive.

The hope remains that both parties will fully implement an effective ceasefire as an important step toward an acceptable political resolution of the conflict, one that respects the internationally recognized border.

I am often asked, "Should the United States and others provide weapons to Ukraine?" What we see is a Russia that is aggressively applying all elements of national power - diplomatic, informational, and economic, as well as military. So my view,.is it would not make sense to unnecessarily take any of our own tools off the table.

But the crisis in Ukraine is about more than just Ukraine. Russian activities are destabilizing neighboring states, and the region as a whole,..and Russia's illegal actions are pushing instability closer to the boundaries of NATO.

We cannot be fully certain what Russia will do next, and we cannot fully grasp Putin's intent. What we can do is learn from his actions,. And what we see suggests growing Russian capabilities, significant military modernization, and ambitious strategic intent.

We also know that Putin responds to strength., and seeks opportunities in weakness. We must strengthen our deterrence in order to manage his opportunistic confidence.

Defense.gov News Article Carter Meets With Ukraine s Defense Minister

WASHINGTON, June 25, 2015 – Defense Secretary Ash Carter met today with Ukraine Defense Minister Colonel-General Stepan Poltorak at the NATO Defense Ministerial in Brussels, according to a Defense Department news release.

This was two leaders’ first meeting, the release said.

The defense leaders discussed Russia's ongoing aggression in eastern Ukraine, the release said, and Carter commended the general for Ukraine’s efforts toward implementing the Minsk agreements despite Russia's destabilizing actions.

Carter emphasized that the United States, together with its allies, “remains committed to supporting Ukraine in its effort to define its own course as a sovereign, democratic nation,” the release said.

The leaders reviewed ongoing U.S. security assistance to Ukraine's armed forces and border guard service, including the mid-July delivery of an additional 100 Humvees and the ongoing training of Ukrainian national guard forces in Yavoriv, the release said.

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[Tehon]

Rohrabacher vs Power Ukraine Video C-SPAN.org

 

[Stratford57]

[QUOTE ="tinydancer, post: 11702324, member: 25451"][ QUOTE="Sbiker, post: 11702313, member: 54793"]
So, if we believe only facts, we have only invasion of Victoria Nuland on the streets of Kiev [/QUOTE]
Now that is funny about Nuland.[/QUOTE]

Translation: ^
The way Victoria Nuland thinks about Ukraine is shameful, painful and disgusting.