The Warren Healthcare Plan

[Third Party]

Now why would one trust what a government won't do? I don't believe for a moment that taxes won't be raised on the middle class to pay for these outrageous "plans" being put forth by the far left.

Your disbelief noted. What's your healthcare plan and how would you pay for it?

A modified Medicare based on what the person has and age. No freebees

Okay, so Medicare For All Passing Ageist Government Means Tests. Die Quickly for all who fail. Please clarify "freebees"?

Everybody pays something or they get nothing-like it used to be.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Your disbelief noted. What's your healthcare plan and how would you pay for it?

1. Keep my job.

2. Pay for my health care.

With Medicare For All you get to change jobs. That's why corporations instituted our employer based "healthcare" insurance scheme to begin with. To introduce artificial competition into the market.. institutionalizing the extraction of rents from illness and the fear losing one's health "coverage." To rip you off while forcing you to "Keep (your) job." And sure, elitist bureaucrats, private and public worked hand in hand, to accomplish that evil. Prior to that one could simply "Pay for (their) healthcare" dealing directly with their actual health care provider (doctor, hospital, etc). Problem remains, what about the too old, young, infirm, disabled, mentally ill,. Die Quickly, right?

 

[Third Party]

Your disbelief noted. What's your healthcare plan and how would you pay for it?

1. Keep my job.

2. Pay for my health care.

With Medicare For All you get to change jobs. That's why corporations instituted our employer based "healthcare" insurance scheme to begin with. To introduce artificial competition into the market.. institutionalizing the extraction of rents from illness and the fear losing one's health "coverage." To rip you off while forcing you to "Keep (your) job." And sure, elitist bureaucrats, private and public worked hand in hand, to accomplish that evil. Prior to that one could simply "Pay for (their) healthcare" dealing directly with their actual health care provider (doctor, hospital, etc). Problem remains, what about the too old, young, infirm, disabled, mentally ill,. Die Quickly, right?

If it is God's will... Especially if they are ILLEGAL!

 

[Grumblenuts]

Die Quickly, right?

If it is God's will... Especially if they are ILLEGAL!

At least you're honest about it.

 

[Old Man Grumbles]

Die quickly - no. How about providing Medicare to those without health insurance and pay for it with the wasteful spending by Congress?

For the second year in a row, members of Congress have set records for the cost and number of earmarks during the supposed earmark moratorium.

Citizens Against Government Waste’s (CAGW) 2019 Congressional Pig Book exposes 282 earmarks, an increase of 21.6 percent from the 232 in fiscal year (FY) 2018. The cost of earmarks in FY 2019 is $15.3 billion, an increase of 4.1 percent from the $14.7 billion in FY 2018. Since FY 1991, CAGW has identified 111,144 earmarks costing $359.8 billion.

2019 Congressional Pig Book

OR with:

ince 2004, twenty large federal agencies admit paying out an astonishing $1.2 trillion in improper payments. That amounts to more than one-quarter of President Trump’s proposed $4.7 trillion budget for 2020. Last year, these improper payments totaled $140 billion – that’s about $12 billion per month.

Federal Agencies Admit To $1.2 Trillion In Improper Payments Since 2004

 

[Pete7469]

You are mentally ill grimpynuts, just die.

 

[Grumblenuts]

How about providing Medicare to those without health insurance and pay for it with the wasteful spending by Congress?

Far as reducing waste in spending? Fine by me. Suggesting that to those running for office might actually help, including Senator Warren. The devil's in the details of course. Whose special interest is of least use to the greater public? Next? That's similar to asking a corporation to police itself in the public interest. Not very damn likely but beats doing nothing, I 'spose. Trying to shame people into better behavior sometimes works. Making it illegal and enforcing those laws with serious penalties?.. Better.

However, the group "those without health insurance" may easily grow. The costs of the needed goods and services certainly will as we've seen. The healthy will continue bitching about having to support the indigent and lazy against their will. Medicare For All eliminates that. Everyone's covered. All are entitled to the same level of care. Those who really want the frills can still buy them. Billions saved by eliminating the totally unnecessary middle men and excess paperwork.

 

[Third Party]

How about providing Medicare to those without health insurance and pay for it with the wasteful spending by Congress?

Far as reducing waste in spending? Fine by me. Suggesting that to those running for office might actually help, including Senator Warren. The devil's in the details of course. Whose special interest is of least use to the greater public? Next? That's similar to asking a corporation to police itself in the public interest. Not very damn likely but beats doing nothing, I 'spose. Trying to shame people into better behavior sometimes works. Making it illegal and enforcing those laws with serious penalties?.. Better.

However, the group "those without health insurance" may easily grow. The costs of the needed goods and services certainly will as we've seen. The healthy will continue bitching about having to support the indigent and lazy against their will. Medicare For All eliminates that. Everyone's covered. All are entitled to the same level of care. Those who really want the frills can still buy them.

I did not see healthcare mentioned in the constitution so there is NO entitlement. People need to be responsible for their own health and financial well being. I would favor a catastrophic coverage provision, like life insurance has, but THAT needs to be paid for too by the patient. Growing up, we had none of this-we paid for every vaccine, doctor's visit and operation. And, if the person is an illegal-no medical service-immediate deportation!

 

[Old Man Grumbles]

How about providing Medicare to those without health insurance and pay for it with the wasteful spending by Congress?

Far as reducing waste in spending? Fine by me. Suggesting that to those running for office might actually help, including Senator Warren. The devil's in the details of course. Whose special interest is of least use to the greater public? Next? That's similar to asking a corporation to police itself in the public interest. Not very damn likely but beats doing nothing, I 'spose. Trying to shame people into better behavior sometimes works. Making it illegal and enforcing those laws with serious penalties?.. Better.

However, the group "those without health insurance" may easily grow. The costs of the needed goods and services certainly will as we've seen. The healthy will continue bitching about having to support the indigent and lazy against their will. Medicare For All eliminates that. Everyone's covered. All are entitled to the same level of care. Those who really want the frills can still buy them.

So CMS gets to decide (like they currently do) what is necessary versus electable care AND do it fairly? Not likely. My wife is a provider in healthcare, working in a rural clinic, with a lot of elderly patients on Medicare. She battles on a regular basis when CMS denies a procedure that my wife has determined to be medically necessary.

I do not trust the government to provide "the same level of care" to all.

 

[Grumblenuts]

I did not see healthcare mentioned in the constitution

The right to health care has long been recognized internationally. Ironically, the origins of this right are here in the United States. Health care was listed in the Second Bill of Rights drafted by Franklin Delano Roosevelt (FDR). Sadly, FDR’s death kept this Second Bill of Rights from being implemented. Eleanor Roosevelt, however, took his work to the United Nations (UN), where it was expanded and clarified. She became the drafting chairperson for the UN’s Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR). That committee codified our human rights, including, at Article 25, the essential right to health. The United States, together with all other nations of the UN, adopted these international standards.

Since the adoption of the UDHR, every other industrialized country in the world—and many non-industrialized countries—have implemented universal health care systems. Such systems ensure that all persons within their borders enjoy their right to health care.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Must say, quite the corporatist turnout! So "Die Quickly" big winner then, so far..

Mislable much ?

 

[Grumblenuts]

How about providing Medicare to those without health insurance and pay for it with the wasteful spending by Congress?

Far as reducing waste in spending? Fine by me. Suggesting that to those running for office might actually help, including Senator Warren. The devil's in the details of course. Whose special interest is of least use to the greater public? Next? That's similar to asking a corporation to police itself in the public interest. Not very damn likely but beats doing nothing, I 'spose. Trying to shame people into better behavior sometimes works. Making it illegal and enforcing those laws with serious penalties?.. Better.

However, the group "those without health insurance" may easily grow. The costs of the needed goods and services certainly will as we've seen. The healthy will continue bitching about having to support the indigent and lazy against their will. Medicare For All eliminates that. Everyone's covered. All are entitled to the same level of care. Those who really want the frills can still buy them.

So CMS gets to decide (like they currently do) what is necessary versus electable care AND do it fairly? Not likely. My wife is a provider in healthcare, working in a rural clinic, with a lot of elderly patients on Medicare. She battles on a regular basis when CMS denies a procedure that my wife has determined to be medically necessary.

I do not trust the government to provide "the same level of care" to all.

I've dealt with CMS too and found them impressive. Not perfect. I don't blindly trust govt either. I trust it to do a much better job (of handling the ppw) than an Aetna, or a United Healthcare, or my previous dentist for that matter. And I can call them and bitch to an actual, English speaking person who's job it is to serve the public (me), not to simply find excuses to deny my coverage.

 

[Old Man Grumbles]

[
I've dealt with CMS too and found them impressive. Not perfect. I don't blindly trust govt either. I trust it to do a much better job (of handling the ppw) than an Aetna, or a United Healthcare, or my previous dentist for that matter. And I can call them and bitch to an actual, English speaking person who's job it is to serve the public (me), not to simply find excuses to deny my coverage.

And this sums up my point. Two people who have opposite interactions with the agency that would be in control of our healthcare. Doesn't sound like equal treatment to me.

 

[Grumblenuts]

You miss the point then. It is quite true that there are no guarantees in life. Nothing is perfectly fair or balanced. The question in this case boils down to who can be counted upon to be worse, a purely profit driven entity whose shareholders demand serving you minimally or a public one (accountable to we the people) charged with serving everyone equally? It's not rocket science.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

You miss the point then. It is quite true that there are no guarantees in life. Nothing is perfectly fair or balanced. The question in this case boils down to who can be counted upon to be worse, a purely profit driven entity whose shareholders demand serving you minimally or a public one charged with serving everyone equally? It's not rocket science.

Actually it is.

Because the public one would be in the hands of the clownshow that is not fighting over impeachment.

You really want those fuckers running health care ?

 

[Grumblenuts]

You miss the point then. It is quite true that there are no guarantees in life. Nothing is perfectly fair or balanced. The question in this case boils down to who can be counted upon to be worse, a purely profit driven entity whose shareholders demand serving you minimally or a public one charged with serving everyone equally? It's not rocket science.

Actually it is.

Because the public one would be in the hands of the clownshow that is not fighting over impeachment.

You really want those fuckers running health care ?

Currently Democrats. Republicans likely not too far down the line. I prefer neither. Bureaucrat working stiffs generally don't care either in my experience.

 

[Pete7469]

 

[Grumblenuts]

 

[Grumblenuts]

 

[Third Party]

I did not see healthcare mentioned in the constitution

The right to health care has long been recognized internationally. Ironically, the origins of this right are here in the United States. Health care was listed in the Second Bill of Rights drafted by Franklin Delano Roosevelt (FDR). Sadly, FDR’s death kept this Second Bill of Rights from being implemented. Eleanor Roosevelt, however, took his work to the United Nations (UN), where it was expanded and clarified. She became the drafting chairperson for the UN’s Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR). That committee codified our human rights, including, at Article 25, the essential right to health. The United States, together with all other nations of the UN, adopted these international standards.

Since the adoption of the UDHR, every other industrialized country in the world—and many non-industrialized countries—have implemented universal health care systems. Such systems ensure that all persons within their borders enjoy their right to health care.

There s the problem-recognized internationally. Is that a good reason to do anything? Hitler did stuff-should we do what he did? Its international.