The Value of a College Education

[Spiderman]

As usual, those who never got near a college dismiss it as a waste

How much money did your liberal arts degree earn you?

If you took all the money, tuition, books,fees etc, spent on a degree in literature, history or whatever and put that money to work for you by starting a business, investing etc would you have more money now or less?

And I've been near colleges. Like I said most of my tenants are either attending college or have some degree or one sort or another. I make more than all of them. So I obviously put my money to better use than they did.

I didn't get a liberal arts degree, I got an engineering degree and it earned me well over a million dollars

Funny how you didn't see that I said degrees in technical and hard scientific pursuits had merit. I specifically said liberal arts degrees were worthless

But I appreciate those with a liberal arts degree. I admire people who write well, who have good critical thinking skills, who can put things in historical perspective. Overall, they make interesting people to talk to. I have to admit, most of the engineers I work with have a bit of geek in them

You don't need a liberal arts degree to write well or have good critical thinking skills.

I agree that college is horribly overpriced but I do not think that it is a waste of time. For every college grad you point out who works in Starbucks, I can point out ten High School grads who will never leave the trailer park
Yes you can open your own business and succeed without a college education. But most businesses fail. Unless you have a family backing you, you have very little margin for error. To sell "open your own business" as an alternative to education is an invitation to failure

Opportunities to educate yourself exist outside of college. Even outside of high school for that matter.

I bought a rental property so I learned everything I could about commercial mortgages, taxes and all the laws regarding rental properties and taught myself how to do basic repairs, plumbing, electrical, carpentry etc because I couldn't afford to pay someone to do it for me.

I taught myself how to repair and maintain my vehicles because I had to

If you need to learn something then learn it on your own or pay to take a class but be pragmatic about it. Wasting time and money learning things that will not give you a return on what you spend is a poor plan.

Family is unnecessary for success. And you can use the chance of failure as an excuse but it's not a failure that is the problem it's believing that one failure is the end that is the problem.

 

[rightwinger]

How much money did your liberal arts degree earn you?

If you took all the money, tuition, books,fees etc, spent on a degree in literature, history or whatever and put that money to work for you by starting a business, investing etc would you have more money now or less?

And I've been near colleges. Like I said most of my tenants are either attending college or have some degree or one sort or another. I make more than all of them. So I obviously put my money to better use than they did.

I didn't get a liberal arts degree, I got an engineering degree and it earned me well over a million dollars

Funny how you didn't see that I said degrees in technical and hard scientific pursuits had merit. I specifically said liberal arts degrees were worthless

But I appreciate those with a liberal arts degree. I admire people who write well, who have good critical thinking skills, who can put things in historical perspective. Overall, they make interesting people to talk to. I have to admit, most of the engineers I work with have a bit of geek in them

You don't need a liberal arts degree to write well or have good critical thinking skills.

I agree that college is horribly overpriced but I do not think that it is a waste of time. For every college grad you point out who works in Starbucks, I can point out ten High School grads who will never leave the trailer park
Yes you can open your own business and succeed without a college education. But most businesses fail. Unless you have a family backing you, you have very little margin for error. To sell "open your own business" as an alternative to education is an invitation to failure

Opportunities to educate yourself exist outside of college. Even outside of high school for that matter.

I bought a rental property so I learned everything I could about commercial mortgages, taxes and all the laws regarding rental properties and taught myself how to do basic repairs, plumbing, electrical, carpentry etc because I couldn't afford to pay someone to do it for me.

I taught myself how to repair and maintain my vehicles because I had to

If you need to learn something then learn it on your own or pay to take a class but be pragmatic about it. Wasting time and money learning things that will not give you a return on what you spend is a poor plan.

Family is unnecessary for success. And you can use the chance of failure as an excuse but it's not a failure that is the problem it's believing that one failure is the end that is the problem.

Yes, you can self educate

But that doesn't mean that those who don't are wasting their money. I have worked with people who went to college and those who haven't. For the most part, those who went to college are more skilled than those who didn't. They write better, they have better analytical skills, they have better organizational skills.

If you are highly motivated and have a passion for success you can succeed without a College degree. But most people who are not motivated enough to go to College or a trade school after High School generally do not succeed.
Most who choose to end their education after High School do not do so because they can succeed without post secondary education. They do it because they barely had the skills and motivation to finish High School

 

[Sunshine]

I didn't get a liberal arts degree, I got an engineering degree and it earned me well over a million dollars

Funny how you didn't see that I said degrees in technical and hard scientific pursuits had merit. I specifically said liberal arts degrees were worthless



You don't need a liberal arts degree to write well or have good critical thinking skills.

I agree that college is horribly overpriced but I do not think that it is a waste of time. For every college grad you point out who works in Starbucks, I can point out ten High School grads who will never leave the trailer park
Yes you can open your own business and succeed without a college education. But most businesses fail. Unless you have a family backing you, you have very little margin for error. To sell "open your own business" as an alternative to education is an invitation to failure

Opportunities to educate yourself exist outside of college. Even outside of high school for that matter.

I bought a rental property so I learned everything I could about commercial mortgages, taxes and all the laws regarding rental properties and taught myself how to do basic repairs, plumbing, electrical, carpentry etc because I couldn't afford to pay someone to do it for me.

I taught myself how to repair and maintain my vehicles because I had to

If you need to learn something then learn it on your own or pay to take a class but be pragmatic about it. Wasting time and money learning things that will not give you a return on what you spend is a poor plan.

Family is unnecessary for success. And you can use the chance of failure as an excuse but it's not a failure that is the problem it's believing that one failure is the end that is the problem.

Yes, you can self educate

But that doesn't mean that those who don't are wasting their money. I have worked with people who went to college and those who haven't. For the most part, those who went to college are more skilled than those who didn't. They write better, they have better analytical skills, they have better organizational skills.

If you are highly motivated and have a passion for success you can succeed without a College degree. But most people who are not motivated enough to go to College or a trade school after High School generally do not succeed.
Most who choose to end their education after High School do not do so because they can succeed without post secondary education. They do it because they barely had the skills and motivation to finish High School

Finishing high school means that you can go by the rules.

Finishing college means that you can finish things.

Those things are about all the high school and undergrad degrees are about. If you want to really learn something you have to get a graduate degree.

 

[OnePercenter]

I didn't mean to imply that "everyone should go to college."

I was considering the questions of (a) the value of a liberal arts education, and (b) whether one could get one without going to college.

There are clearly many good careers that do not require much formal education, and, more importantly,

The best way to get rich is to be an entrepreneur, and spending four years in college to an entrepreneurial person could well be a complete waste of time.

I don't agree. Every entrepreneur that I personally know has had some college education. Some (like me) have advanced degrees.

 

[Katzndogz]

You might still get that first job, but what kind of job will it be? My husband's daughter has a liberal arts degree. She finally got a job as an "administrative assistant" (i.e. secretary) for which a college degree was unnecessary.

Why don't you e-mail this link to your Step Daughter.

How to turn a liberal arts degree into a paycheck

How do you know she didn't get the job because of her college degree?

Did you miss this one liner:

— by picking up a few technical skills before they graduate,

If my step daughter got her job because of her college degree, she is the ONLY one in her department that did. If it wasn't for her father badgering her to learn how to type, she wouldn't have gotten that.

She had three roommates in college. They were getting math based or science based educations. They all got well paying jobs in their senior year including signing bonuses. She was the only one of her group that graduated to look for a job. When the University had job fairs, no one even wanted to talk to her.

As your article clearly states, a liberal arts degree alone is worthless.

 

[Spiderman]

I didn't mean to imply that "everyone should go to college."

I was considering the questions of (a) the value of a liberal arts education, and (b) whether one could get one without going to college.

There are clearly many good careers that do not require much formal education, and, more importantly,

The best way to get rich is to be an entrepreneur, and spending four years in college to an entrepreneurial person could well be a complete waste of time.

I don't agree. Every entrepreneur that I personally know has had some college education. Some (like me) have advanced degrees.

Anecdotal.

Besides I said if you need to learn something then learn it but a degree is not necessary.

Having "some" college means only that someone took a class or two which is a pragmatic approach to education where you only pay for what you need and what will give you the most return for your time and money.

 

[rightwinger]

I didn't mean to imply that "everyone should go to college."

I was considering the questions of (a) the value of a liberal arts education, and (b) whether one could get one without going to college.

There are clearly many good careers that do not require much formal education, and, more importantly,

The best way to get rich is to be an entrepreneur, and spending four years in college to an entrepreneurial person could well be a complete waste of time.

I don't agree. Every entrepreneur that I personally know has had some college education. Some (like me) have advanced degrees.

Anecdotal.

Besides I said if you need to learn something them learn it but a degree is not necessary.

Having "some" college means only that someone took a class or two which is a pragmatic approach to education where you only pay for what you need and what will give you the most return for your time and money.

Could you have been more successful if you went to College?

We will never know will we?

 

[Spiderman]

I didn't get a liberal arts degree, I got an engineering degree and it earned me well over a million dollars

Funny how you didn't see that I said degrees in technical and hard scientific pursuits had merit. I specifically said liberal arts degrees were worthless



You don't need a liberal arts degree to write well or have good critical thinking skills.

I agree that college is horribly overpriced but I do not think that it is a waste of time. For every college grad you point out who works in Starbucks, I can point out ten High School grads who will never leave the trailer park
Yes you can open your own business and succeed without a college education. But most businesses fail. Unless you have a family backing you, you have very little margin for error. To sell "open your own business" as an alternative to education is an invitation to failure

Opportunities to educate yourself exist outside of college. Even outside of high school for that matter.

I bought a rental property so I learned everything I could about commercial mortgages, taxes and all the laws regarding rental properties and taught myself how to do basic repairs, plumbing, electrical, carpentry etc because I couldn't afford to pay someone to do it for me.

I taught myself how to repair and maintain my vehicles because I had to

If you need to learn something then learn it on your own or pay to take a class but be pragmatic about it. Wasting time and money learning things that will not give you a return on what you spend is a poor plan.

Family is unnecessary for success. And you can use the chance of failure as an excuse but it's not a failure that is the problem it's believing that one failure is the end that is the problem.

Yes, you can self educate

But that doesn't mean that those who don't are wasting their money. I have worked with people who went to college and those who haven't. For the most part, those who went to college are more skilled than those who didn't. They write better, they have better analytical skills, they have better organizational skills.

If you are highly motivated and have a passion for success you can succeed without a College degree. But most people who are not motivated enough to go to College or a trade school after High School generally do not succeed.
Most who choose to end their education after High School do not do so because they can succeed without post secondary education. They do it because they barely had the skills and motivation to finish High School

Most that go to college do not succeed either.
In fact most end up horribly average.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

The everyone should go to college manta is wrong.

Outside of technical and hard scientific studies, engineering,medicine, etc most degrees are a waste of money.

Hell even high school wasn't worth it to me.

Education should be a pragmatic endeavor. If you need to learn something to accomplish a task or even move up in a job then learn it. Getting a degree for the sake of getting a degree is a waste of both time and money.

I agree. I think apprenticeships would be far more effective.

 

[rightwinger]

Funny how you didn't see that I said degrees in technical and hard scientific pursuits had merit. I specifically said liberal arts degrees were worthless



You don't need a liberal arts degree to write well or have good critical thinking skills.



Opportunities to educate yourself exist outside of college. Even outside of high school for that matter.

I bought a rental property so I learned everything I could about commercial mortgages, taxes and all the laws regarding rental properties and taught myself how to do basic repairs, plumbing, electrical, carpentry etc because I couldn't afford to pay someone to do it for me.

I taught myself how to repair and maintain my vehicles because I had to

If you need to learn something then learn it on your own or pay to take a class but be pragmatic about it. Wasting time and money learning things that will not give you a return on what you spend is a poor plan.

Family is unnecessary for success. And you can use the chance of failure as an excuse but it's not a failure that is the problem it's believing that one failure is the end that is the problem.

Yes, you can self educate

But that doesn't mean that those who don't are wasting their money. I have worked with people who went to college and those who haven't. For the most part, those who went to college are more skilled than those who didn't. They write better, they have better analytical skills, they have better organizational skills.

If you are highly motivated and have a passion for success you can succeed without a College degree. But most people who are not motivated enough to go to College or a trade school after High School generally do not succeed.
Most who choose to end their education after High School do not do so because they can succeed without post secondary education. They do it because they barely had the skills and motivation to finish High School

Most that go to college do not succeed either.
In fact most end up horribly average.

Once again, a person who never made it near college making broad statements to cover up their own inadequacies

Most people who go to college do succeed, their lifetime earnings are an order of magnitude (that means a bunch more) higher than those who do not

 

[Spiderman]

I don't agree. Every entrepreneur that I personally know has had some college education. Some (like me) have advanced degrees.

Anecdotal.

Besides I said if you need to learn something them learn it but a degree is not necessary.

Having "some" college means only that someone took a class or two which is a pragmatic approach to education where you only pay for what you need and what will give you the most return for your time and money.

Could you have been more successful if you went to College?

We will never know will we?

I don't think so.

I don't know too many 4 year degree programs from a college I could have afforded ( I was dirt poor and didn't have parents to pay my way) getting me a job that pays me anywhere near what I make now.

Most of the people I rent to have a degree of one kind or another and yet they pay me, the lowly HS drop out, every month. And if one of them leaves there are plenty of other people who will pay me rent every month.

Funny with all that education they haven't figured out that it's better to be paid rent than to pay rent.

Success is more a result of desire and determination than it is of education.

 

[Unkotare]

Anecdotal.

Besides I said if you need to learn something them learn it but a degree is not necessary.

Having "some" college means only that someone took a class or two which is a pragmatic approach to education where you only pay for what you need and what will give you the most return for your time and money.

Could you have been more successful if you went to College?

We will never know will we?

I don't think so.

I don't know too many 4 year degree programs from a college I could have afforded ( I was dirt poor and didn't have parents to pay my way) getting me a job that pays me anywhere near what I make now.

Most of the people I rent to have a degree of one kind or another and yet they pay me, the lowly HS drop out, every month. And if one of them leaves there are plenty of other people who will pay me rent every month.

Funny with all that education they haven't figured out that it's better to be paid rent than to pay rent.

Success is more a result of desire and determination than it is of education.

I notice your pattern of being averse to learning.

 

[Unkotare]

A liberal arts education is worthless. College itself has been devalued. A college degree in liberal arts has the same value as a high school diploma 20 years ago.

Critics of the Liberal Arts Are Wrong | TIME.com

 

[Spiderman]

Could you have been more successful if you went to College?

We will never know will we?

I don't think so.

I don't know too many 4 year degree programs from a college I could have afforded ( I was dirt poor and didn't have parents to pay my way) getting me a job that pays me anywhere near what I make now.

Most of the people I rent to have a degree of one kind or another and yet they pay me, the lowly HS drop out, every month. And if one of them leaves there are plenty of other people who will pay me rent every month.

Funny with all that education they haven't figured out that it's better to be paid rent than to pay rent.

Success is more a result of desire and determination than it is of education.

I notice your pattern of being averse to learning.

You notice wrong.

I said if you need to learn something then learn it. How is that an aversion to learning.?

I take a pragmatic approach to everything. If I need to learn the ins and outs of mortgages I am not going to pay to take a course in psychology. If I need to learn how to build a house I am not going to pay to take a course in English literature.

If you're going to pay to learn something then that something should give you a quantifiable return. If you want to learn something for the hell of it why pay anyone when you can look it up on line for free?

 

[OnePercenter]

I didn't mean to imply that "everyone should go to college."

I was considering the questions of (a) the value of a liberal arts education, and (b) whether one could get one without going to college.

There are clearly many good careers that do not require much formal education, and, more importantly,

The best way to get rich is to be an entrepreneur, and spending four years in college to an entrepreneurial person could well be a complete waste of time.

I don't agree. Every entrepreneur that I personally know has had some college education. Some (like me) have advanced degrees.

Anecdotal.

Besides I said if you need to learn something then learn it but a degree is not necessary.

Having "some" college means only that someone took a class or two which is a pragmatic approach to education where you only pay for what you need and what will give you the most return for your time and money.

I couldn't have gotten where I'm at today without a degree. My advanced degree taught me my investment skills.

Bill Gates has 'some college', work out very well for that entrepreneur.

 

[Spiderman]

I don't agree. Every entrepreneur that I personally know has had some college education. Some (like me) have advanced degrees.

Anecdotal.

Besides I said if you need to learn something then learn it but a degree is not necessary.

Having "some" college means only that someone took a class or two which is a pragmatic approach to education where you only pay for what you need and what will give you the most return for your time and money.

I couldn't have gotten where I'm at today without a degree. My advanced degree taught me my investment skills.

Bill Gates has 'some college', work out very well for that entrepreneur.

I don't get what you're point is. I said if you need to learn something then learn it.

Tell me how many courses did you pay for that had nothing to do with investing and therefore no bearing on your income?

One can get a license to sell stocks, bonds, mutual funds, insurance without getting a degree.

One can take courses in finance separately from a degree program that does not make you pay for courses that are irrelevant to your career path.

As I said "some college" does not imply anything more than taking one college course.

Nothing I have said denies that taking a class to learn something is undesirable as long as that something gives you a return on your money and time.

Spending 4 years and tens of thousands of dollars on a course of study with no purpose and no real promise of a return is a waste of time.

 

[rightwinger]

Anecdotal.

Besides I said if you need to learn something then learn it but a degree is not necessary.

Having "some" college means only that someone took a class or two which is a pragmatic approach to education where you only pay for what you need and what will give you the most return for your time and money.

I couldn't have gotten where I'm at today without a degree. My advanced degree taught me my investment skills.

Bill Gates has 'some college', work out very well for that entrepreneur.

I don't get what you're point is. I said if you need to learn something then learn it.

Tell me how many courses did you pay for that had nothing to do with investing and therefore no bearing on your income?

One can get a license to sell stocks, bonds, mutual funds, insurance without getting a degree.

One can take courses in finance separately from a degree program that does not make you pay for courses that are irrelevant to your career path.

As I said "some college" does not imply anything more than taking one college course.

Nothing I have said denies that taking a class to learn something is undesirable as long as that something gives you a return on your money and time.

Spending 4 years and tens of thousands of dollars on a course of study with no purpose and no real promise of a return is a waste of time.

I hear you can even learn brain surgery online

 

[Sunshine]

A liberal arts education is worthless. College itself has been devalued. A college degree in liberal arts has the same value as a high school diploma 20 years ago.

Critics of the Liberal Arts Are Wrong | TIME.com

From the article:

I sat on a commission put together by the American Academy of Arts and Sciences to explore this very question, and the subsequent congressional report, released today, acknowledges the critical importance of technical training but also asserts without equivocation that the study of the humanities and social sciences must remain central components of America’s educational system at all levels. Both areas are critical to producing citizens who can participate effectively in our democratic society, become innovative leaders and benefit from the spiritual enrichment that the contemplation of ethics, morals, aesthetics and the great ideas over time can provide.

Read more: Critics of the Liberal Arts Are Wrong | TIME.com Critics of the Liberal Arts Are Wrong | TIME.com

^^^I agree with that.

 

[Sunshine]

I don't agree. Every entrepreneur that I personally know has had some college education. Some (like me) have advanced degrees.

Anecdotal.

Besides I said if you need to learn something then learn it but a degree is not necessary.

Having "some" college means only that someone took a class or two which is a pragmatic approach to education where you only pay for what you need and what will give you the most return for your time and money.

I couldn't have gotten where I'm at today without a degree. My advanced degree taught me my investment skills.

Bill Gates has 'some college', work out very well for that entrepreneur.

My son works in IT. He has made a six figure salary every year since he was 23. But he loves art, philosophy, and literature. Those are enriching experiences. Just because they don't pay his bills doesn't mean they were useless courses. In all honesty, I enjoyed my literature and philosophy classes more than I did my science classes. But that is not where my commitment was. I still feel they were valuable classes.

 

[rdean]

Rick Santorum was one of the last two Republicans standing when the nod finally went to Mitt. But I think Rick speaks for the majority of the GOP when it comes to the value of education.