THe United States: Best Country On Planet

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by the truth hurts
Run by Islamic clerics?.... Is King Mohammed VI a cleric?. How about Saddam? Okay, what about King Fahd? Hmmm, Hosni Mubarak?
It appears you know very little about Arab politics (not to insult). There is no leader in the middle east that has been elected with a free and clear public election (less the Ayat Allah of Iran).

Who nephew of the king did the US train to assassinate so that King Fahd can take power? Remember the oil crisis of the 70's??

When did the late King Hasssan 2 stand for elections?

Who placed back the existing government in Algeria when an Islamic government was democratically elected in?

Who put Saddam in to power, and kept him there?

Who put the Shah of Iran in power?

Who put in place the leader of Afghanistan (despite public dissaproval)?

The leader of Lebanon, Syria (his father), Kuwait, Oman, UAE, Egypt, the list goes on and on.....!!!!!!

Even outside the middle east... Who sent 20,000 troops to put back into power the then-ousted Aristide of Haiti.

Elected officials???? Laughable to say the least.


According to sharia law. People of the book (infidels-you refer them as) must pay a tax to the governing Islamic body. They will then be protected by the Islamic armies. Allow to operate their own governments within the Islamic State, with their own religious laws, with their elected officials.
Shariah law, and history if far more complex and detailed then one can consume reading one or two books. This area must be studied for years, to begin to derive an opinion.

Your societies are backwards in terms of individual freedoms and civil liberties. Your treatment of women is appalling. That's not our fault. I do not need to study something for years to realize it's crap. I know your cultures invented algebra and all that but in life as in love it comes down to "What have you done for me lately?" Your cultures are a disgrace to civilization at this point.

 

[Scourge]

ok man, but what's up with Iran wanting Nuke Israel when and if they get the bomb?

I mean I think the US has messed with a lot of countries, but there ARE fundamentalists in power who do want total jihad against Israel and 'the great satan' even if they have a point in their hatred of the US, the Israel deal is trickier because it involves religion more than just foreign policy.

Is Iran going to be peacefull if we allow them to have a nuclear weapon?
To ensure its security, could Israel pre-emptively strike Iran? According to US policy, this is justified.
Am I right?

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by the truth hurts

Run by Islamic clerics?.... It appears you know very little about Arab politics (not to insult). There is no leader in the middle east that has been elected with a free and clear public election (less the Ayat Allah of Iran).

WOW - You said ME right? Typcial, you totally overlook Israel. But then again, they are not human huh?

According to sharia law. People of the book (infidels-you refer them as)

I just went to several Islamic sites that refer to non-Muslims (People of the Book) as infidels. So please don't say that is only OUR method of referral.

(Dude, you are starting to lose all credibility)

continued... must pay a tax to the governing Islamic body. They will then be protected by the Islamic armies. Allow to operate their own governments within the Islamic State, with their own religious laws, with their elected officials.

Why should I have to pay a tax for not believing in your religion? Not very tolerant folks huh?

Yeah, go ahead and tell that to the Jews that were run out of Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, etc. how much they will be protected.

Out of 290 parliamentary leaders in Iran, the Christians get 1 rep, the Jews one rep, and so on. That's pretty fair huh? NOT it is pretty pathetic. Why can't one just vote for the right guy for the job??

Shariah law, and history if far more complex and detailed then one can consume reading one or two books. This area must be studied for years, to begin to derive an opinion.

Are you sidestepping the topic?? Appears so.... You haven't yet countered any of the quotes or information that I have provided. It is all verifiable. If you have a counter, please provide it. But I am not sure how you will spin what is written in their own words. I mean, we can all read for ourselves the 1990 Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam. So if you have something else that counters what it says and from the same group of The 54 Muslim countries of the Organization of the Islamic Conference and not your your own personal spin, then post it. PLEASE!

If it were Christians or Jews that were taking the "holier than thou" attitude that the Muslims are you would be outraged. Can't you see that Islam believes it is the only right way just as Christianity does and therefore, you cannot waiver from that as a devout Muslim (assuming that you are).

Again, the difference is that Christianity has been weakened over the years. If Christians were as fundamentalist as a whole as the Muslims are, then we really would be involved in a global conflict based on a religious war.

Christians have lost much of their identity. Some say this is good, some say it is bad. Well, I would think that it is good, but the problem is that then that leaves nothing to counter the Muslims.

I have done a lot of research on this subject and even pro-Islamic sites say much of what I previously posted. So how do you counter that? You can't. And as somebody that is not about to convert to Islam how can I counter you? I can't, unless I want to kill you. Don't you see, that is the problem.

And don't tell me that if we leave the Muslim nations alone they will leave us alone. Tell that to the Catholics in the Phillapines. Islam is spreading and you guys don't want to stop it. So see, you are the problem. You don't want to let people live in peace. You say you do, but then if Islam becomes predominant, you begin to disriminate against non-Muslims. Don't say that is not true. Malaysia is the perfect example. Unless you are a bumi-putra (Muslim) you can't win government contracts. Malaysia is just at 50 - 55% Muslim and the rest is a mix of Christians, Hindus, etc. and they will all tell you that they have just learned to live with institutionalized disrimination.

Man, I could go on and on.....

 

[freeandfun1]

Is Iran going to be peacefull if we allow them to have a nuclear weapon?

Nope... they are going to sit in Iran, point their missiles at the US, Europe and the rest of the "non-Muslim" world and tell us if we don't pay their fucking tax or submit, then we must pay the ultimate price - death.

 

[the truth hurts]

freeandfun1

What should be a topic against US policies, has turned into a topic against Islam. This is not fair to the other members. There is a section for Islam to discuss. But I will answer....

Okay, let's begin....

Quote
WOW - You said ME right? Typcial, you totally overlook Israel. But then again, they are not human huh?

Now your just insulting me! But whatever, I'll ignore it.
Hmmm, How could I have forgotten Palestine (now refered to as Israel), the champion of democracy!
A democracy that kicked out the original people from its own state, because it believed that there had to be a country run by jewish law. Bless the Balfour declaration.
A democracy that kicked out over 300,000 people (which has now procreated to 4,000,000 people) into makeshift ghettos in the countries surrounding it
A democracy that not only stoled the land, but also stole the original inhabitants assets and properties.
A democracy that delegated the remaining people to hell-hole like areas (West Bank and Gaza strip).
A democracy to this day, still kills an average of 3 Palestinians a day (most of them children and teenagers).
A democracy that prevents anybody under the age of 40 to visit the 3rd most holiest site in their religion.
A democracy that has broken over 100 UN RESOLUTIONS!!
Was this the democracy you were talking about?.... Give me a break!


Quote
I just went to several Islamic sites that refer to non-Muslims (People of the Book) as infidels. So please don't say that is only OUR method of referral.

(Dude, you are starting to lose all credibility)

I'm loosing credibility? How long have you been on the internet? Don't you know that any jackmonkey with some basic knowledge of HTML can put up a website. So if you see a site on Islam, it has to be true..... Right? NAIVE is the only word I can think of.
Besides, are we basing a religion on a web site, or by the religous texts of that religion?
Dude... Come on!
This will help.
Infidel=let's say a pagan worshipper
People of the Book=Christian, Jew, etc..

let's continue.....

Quote
Why should I have to pay a tax for not believing in your religion? Not very tolerant folks huh?

What developed nation is there, on this planet, that taxes don't have to be paid.? I don't believe in my secular government! By your account, I shouldn't pay any taxes either. If you want to live in a country, whether it has Islamic Law or not--- YOU'RE GOING TO PAY TAXES!!!!!! Get over it. It's as if the muslims within an Islamic state don't have to pay taxes... Of course they do!


Quote
Yeah, go ahead and tell that to the Jews that were run out of Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, etc. how much they will be protected.

First of all, there is no Islamic state on this planet!!!! I refer to an Islamic state as to what the Qu'ran and the authentic hadeeths say. Not because a bunch of muslims live there. So whatever happened to Jews in the above-mentioned countries, can not be accountable to the religion of Islam.
Secondly, have you forgotten the past. For almost 800 years (700AD to 1400'sAD--dubbed "the dark ages" in christian-judeo hsitory) Islam was the one of the most powerful nations on the planet. Where was the genocide!! Where was the mass killings!!! Did not the christians and jews live in peace in the Islamic nations since the time of Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) (like the popular Ibn Saba-- a jew amongst the muslims during the time of the Prophet). The jews (as an example) has never lived in more peace than with muslims under a true Islamic government.


Quote
Out of 290 parliamentary leaders in Iran, the Christians get 1 rep, the Jews one rep, and so on. That's pretty fair huh? NOT it is pretty pathetic. Why can't one just vote for the right guy for the job??

Again, can't say if that is a true Islamic state (and I'll tell you why in a minute). But as to the one rep for each religion. We are talking about National laws (not regional). The religion and constitution of the country is Islamic. To give a majority to a non muslim could threating their constitution. Just like if an Islamic government won power in the US. The laws that they would apply would go against the US constitution. Thus, that would never be allowed.
But the fact that they allow representation at the national level, is tremendous. If I did the same thing in the US, with Islam. My organization would probably be dubbed a terrorist organization, and I'd be imprisoned without any trial!!
Lucky bastards, at least they get representation.

Quote

Are you sidestepping the topic?? Appears so.... You haven't yet countered any of the quotes or information that I have provided. It is all verifiable. If you have a counter, please provide it. But I am not sure how you will spin what is written in their own words. I mean, we can all read for ourselves the 1990 Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam. So if you have something else that counters what it says and from the same group of The 54 Muslim countries of the Organization of the Islamic Conference and not your your own personal spin, then post it. PLEASE!

If it were Christians or Jews that were taking the "holier than thou" attitude that the Muslims are you would be outraged. Can't you see that Islam believes it is the only right way just as Christianity does and therefore, you cannot waiver from that as a devout Muslim (assuming that you are).

Again, the difference is that Christianity has been weakened over the years. If Christians were as fundamentalist as a whole as the Muslims are, then we really would be involved in a global conflict based on a religious war.

Christians have lost much of their identity. Some say this is good, some say it is bad. Well, I would think that it is good, but the problem is that then that leaves nothing to counter the Muslims.

I have done a lot of research on this subject and even pro-Islamic sites say much of what I previously posted. So how do you counter that? You can't. And as somebody that is not about to convert to Islam how can I counter you? I can't, unless I want to kill you. Don't you see, that is the problem.

And don't tell me that if we leave the Muslim nations alone they will leave us alone. Tell that to the Catholics in the Phillapines. Islam is spreading and you guys don't want to stop it. So see, you are the problem. You don't want to let people live in peace. You say you do, but then if Islam becomes predominant, you begin to disriminate against non-Muslims. Don't say that is not true. Malaysia is the perfect example. Unless you are a bumi-putra (Muslim) you can't win government contracts. Malaysia is just at 50 - 55% Muslim and the rest is a mix of Christians, Hindus, etc. and they will all tell you that they have just learned to live with institutionalized disrimination.


First of all, this Islamic state council is a bunch of BS. They do exist, that is true.
Do they represent Islam? That is false.
You have shown some initial studies into Islam. That is good! But you have to start from the beginning, don't jump into the middle and expect to understand.
One thing that you are missing, that is a required, is the structure of the Islamic State.
I'll explain.
An islamic state MUST have a Khaleefah (or vice gerent) of the religion. No Khaleefah, no Islamic state! Simple as that.
How many Khaleefahs are there? Only 1 for the entire religion.
Who's the Khaleefah nowadays? There is none.
You see, what ever these bogus representatives of Islam say, it's all BS. Because they no accountablility to a Khaleefah. You need an elected Khaleefah to make those decisions.

Yes I would love to have the entire world muslim. So does every other religion. That's not the problem. The accusation is that Islam does it by the "sword".
This, I can't stomach.
There are 20,000,000 christians in Egypt right now. Egypt was one of first nations to come to Islam (after the death of the Prophet (pbuh)). If we converted by the sword, where did these 20,000,000 christian arabs come from?
Almost 10% of the Moroccan population are jews. Again, where did they come from if we force the religion by the sword?
Almost 50% of Lebanon are christians... How, if by the sword?

Now if certain countries grant contracts to its own kind nowadays, that is not a reason to blame a religion.
Are we judging a religion by some of its people, or by the actual religion itself?

Hypothetical situation:
An Islamic nation exists- Khaleefah and all.

Nation B, has no qwams with the Islamic Nation, nor are there any existing muslims living withing that nation that are being persecuted.

According to your research, the Islamic Nation must fight them. In the pursuit of God.
WRONG!
They have no right to attack, get taxes from them, or anything else except be good neighbours.
This is Islam.

So how did we become the second largest religion and the fastest growing religion in the world?
DAWA.
Spreading the religion by peacefull means of talking. The christians call them missionaries.
This how we did it. Not by the sword.

Tired of typing.....

Oh, and by the way. JIHAD: The major part of jihad is the struggle of one's self against sin. The minor part of jihad is against attacking nations.

Got to go know. It's been a slice.

If what I said is true, then it's from God and God alone. If what I said is false, then it is from me/Shaytan and I ask of your forgiveness.

Be safe.

 

[Zhukov]

I believe christianity is the fastest growing religion in the world actually. Though I could be wrong.

 

[the truth hurts]

The question can also be: Could Iran pre-emptively strike Israel if it thought it was threatened? Fair is fair, right?
Has Iran said that it will nuke Israel, if it had the chance (in turn destroying the 3rd most holiest Islamic site)?
Pre-emptive strikes is bull shite. No one should be allowed to do that.
Iran and nukes, huh... Sooo scarry, huh! Come on....
Out of all the countries in the world that has either nukes, or the capabilities to produce nukes, only 1 of them has ever used it in combat.
That's the US.
In a war they already won.
As a planet, we should remove these weapons of mass destruction from such a hostile state.
Did you know that they haven't NOT been in a war for over a year since world war 2.
Crazy.... Let's end the madness together! NO ONE SHOULD HAVE NUKES!!!!!!!

 

[the truth hurts]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Your societies are backwards in terms of individual freedoms and civil liberties. Your treatment of women is appalling. That's not our fault. I do not need to study something for years to realize it's crap. I know your cultures invented algebra and all that but in life as in love it comes down to "What have you done for me lately?" Your cultures are a disgrace to civilization at this point.

Wow... First of all, stick to the subject. You said that the US deals with the leaders these "Islamic nations" societies have choosen. I proved that these societies didn't choose their leaders. They were in fact western imposed.

Now your attacking Islam. This is appropriate in the Islamic Forum. Not the Anti-US forum.
But I'd be more than happy to discuss how Islam liberated the women, in the Islamic forum.

Be safe

 

[freeandfun1]

Truth....

You are missing my points.

I have clearly stated that I undestand that not all Muslims are bad. It is just that some of the bad ones are highjacking the religion. But as long as the "good" Muslims sit by and let the bad ones have it, then there is going to be conflict in the world. Just as if the Christians let the fundamentalist take over Christianity or if the Jews let the Orthodox take over theirs.

That is my point.

As far as Jihad, I know the original meaning. But it is funny, the last time I pointed out what you did on another board, I was told by a Muslim I had no idea what I was talking about.

So go figure...

 

[Bry]

welcome to the board, truth. Your perspective is interesting and a needed contribution to the board (IMHO).

 

[the truth hurts]

Originally posted by Bry
welcome to the board, truth. Your perspective is interesting and a needed contribution to the board (IMHO).

Thank you!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by the truth hurts
Wow... First of all, stick to the subject. You said that the US deals with the leaders these "Islamic nations" societies have choosen. I proved that these societies didn't choose their leaders. They were in fact western imposed.

Now your attacking Islam. This is appropriate in the Islamic Forum. Not the Anti-US forum.
But I'd be more than happy to discuss how Islam liberated the women, in the Islamic forum.

Be safe

Yes. If it weren't for the U.S., the middle east would be comprised of individual rights oriented constitutional democracies. I call bullshit. And quit trying to use the very structure of this board to shut down half the argument. How lame.

 

[the truth hurts]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr


Yes. If it weren't for the U.S., the middle east would be comprised of individual rights oriented constitutional democracies. I call bullshit. And quit trying to use the very structure of this board to shut down half the argument. How lame.

Okay... So let me get this straight.
First you said that the arab societies chose their own governments. These "chosen" governments are massive rights violators.

Then I proved that these governments were not chosen by their respective societies, but were placed in power by the west.

Now your saying that if we (the west-you keep saying US despite the fact that France and the UK have major roles in the creation of the middles east) let these "backward" people determine their own governments, they would undoubtedly form a massive rights violating government.

HUH?????

(scratching my head) I'm confused.....

I guess I can some up your "theory" as: Damned if you do, Damned if you don't!

There is one thing for sure that I can say. The arabs never had a chance to truly form their own government (the way they want it). A little something we call democracy (the latin translation of "the people rule"--- not the west rules).
So who the hell are you to say that if we gave them the chance, they would form this evil, demagod-like government. It's pre-emptive strikes all over again!

Ohhhh the audacity of it all...

Please, I respect all opinions. But get your opinion straight. Stick to one side please...... I get confused easily.

If you love democracy. Then you got to except all the ups and downs that come with it!!!!!!!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by the truth hurts
Okay... So let me get this straight.
First you said that the arab societies chose their own governments. These "chosen" governments are massive rights violators.

Then I proved that these governments were not chosen by their respective societies, but were placed in power by the west.

Now your saying that if we (the west-you keep saying US despite the fact that France and the UK have major roles in the creation of the middles east) let these "backward" people determine their own governments, they would undoubtedly form a massive rights violating government.

HUH?????

(scratching my head) I'm confused.....

I guess I can some up your "theory" as: Damned if you do, Damned if you don't!

There is one thing for sure that I can say. The arabs never had a chance to truly form their own government (the way they want it). A little something we call democracy (the latin translation of "the people rule"--- not the west rules).
So who the hell are you to say that if we gave them the chance, they would form this evil, demagod-like government. It's pre-emptive strikes all over again!

Ohhhh the audacity of it all...

Please, I respect all opinions. But get your opinion straight. Stick to one side please...... I get confused easily.

If you love democracy. Then you got to except all the ups and downs that come with it!!!!!!!

I never said their arab societies chose their own governments.

Your overarching argument is that Arab societies are f'ed because of the west. i'm saying they're f'ed due their inherent tribalistic barbarity, sexism, and fudamentalistic islam.

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by the truth hurts

There is one thing for sure that I can say. The arabs never had a chance to truly form their own government (the way they want it). A little something we call democracy (the latin translation of "the people rule"--- not the west rules).

This is such hog-wash. Sure, the west may have implemented governments they wanted, but why could the people not rise up and get the governments THEY wanted? All over the world there has been uprisings against governments (remember something called the American Revolution? Or how about the French Revolution?). So this holds no water. Why is it the "west's" fault that your Arab brothers are either too lazy or too scared to stand up and demand they have a fair government? You have totally ignored my previous writings on my opinion about this where I say it is because the religious and government leaders feed off each other to keep the masses suppressed. Well, that is not the doing of the west. That is your own doing.

 

[the truth hurts]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
Originally posted by the truth hurts



This is such hog-wash. Sure, the west may have implemented governments they wanted, but why could the people not rise up and get the governments THEY wanted? All over the world there has been uprisings against governments (remember something called the American Revolution? Or how about the French Revolution?). So this holds no water. Why is it the "west's" fault that your Arab brothers are either too lazy or too scared to stand up and demand they have a fair government? You have totally ignored my previous writings on my opinion about this where I say it is because the religious and government leaders feed off each other to keep the masses suppressed. Well, that is not the doing of the west. That is your own doing.

Imagine this....

You are a member of a poor people. But your country is wealthy. Your country is filled with corrupted government officials that you did not elect.
And to top it all off, you have economic sanctions against your country. So international trade is out of the question.
So you stick to the neccessities to make ends meet. Let's say you open a metal factory.
You manufacture springs for mattresses, door hinges, whatever..
But one day, you hear a sonic boom in the air outside your house.
A large explosion.
As the smoke settles, you see that your metal factory is destroyed.
Some US or UK or France or Israeli fighter plane blew it up.
Because you deal with metal, "You could 'potentially' manufacture guns, bullets, or shells", is their reasoning.... Even though you don't.
Start all over again.
But you had enough!! It's time to rise up!
Your going to need weapons.
All that is available, is a handfull of 30 year old Klashnikov's (AK-47's).
So you say "Got to make do with what you got". So you "rise up".
But your enemies hear wind of this. In retaliation, they carpet bomb 3 villages and knock out 4 hospitals in the same area so that the injured can't be helped.
Now you're worse off then you were before.

This happens everyday!

The Iranians rose up. In turn, the US supplied weapons and biological weapons to Iraq. Convinced them to attack Iran.
After 8 long years of war, over 1,000,000 people died as a result.

The US wins both ways... That's 1,000,000 less free thinking middle easterners they got to worry about.

So what do you do????? Huh???

You're screwed either way.

Please stop acting as if the "religous leaders" are in cohoots(sp?) with the corrupt governments of the area. They are one and the same. Not elected. And CORRUPT.
And if its true that these leaders keep my "brothers" suppressed. And if the west put these leaders in to power? Won't that make it the west's fault?.....

You know.. It's funny...

Your government, will force feed you BS that they attack a muslim dominated country in hopes of "liberating the nation of rights abuses". Not the truth of government rebuilding contracts, placing a government that will keep it's people at bay, and to ensure continued oil supplies.

But then you have China, one of the worst human rights abusers in the world, who will never be touched by the west. They force them the privleage of being a G8 member. Place no sanctions on them. All because there isn't enough Wal-marts there?

I have no problem with the American people. They're good people.... But your government, and its foreign policy, are curropt and evil to the core.

 

[OCA]

War is hell, isn't it? Btw i'm Greek and an orthodox christian and supported Milosevic in Serbia's war against muslims. What you are saying does have some validity but war is not about being fair or balanced its about doing what you have to do to make sure your side wins. So since we went into Iraq and got rid of Sadaam why shouldn't we reap some of the spoils of war? Even if the reason to make war was oil i'm good with that because Sadaam was sitting on, I forget exact percentage now but its alot of the worlds oil supply and now that oil is free to be sold on open market whereas under Sadaam it wasn't. Your analogy of China is good too except for one thing, they have the worlds largest army and have nukes so you can't just jump in and throw dukes with them not that we wouldn't if push came to shove. In the end the world has always had one constant since the beginning of time, well two, might makes right and the one with all the gold makes the rules. There is nothing anybody can or ever has been able to do about that.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by OCA
War is hell, isn't it? Btw i'm Greek and an orthodox christian and supported Milosevic in Serbia's war against muslims. What you are saying does have some validity but war is not about being fair or balanced its about doing what you have to do to make sure your side wins. So since we went into Iraq and got rid of Sadaam why shouldn't we reap some of the spoils of war? Even if the reason to make war was oil i'm good with that because Sadaam was sitting on, I forget exact percentage now but its alot of the worlds oil supply and now that oil is free to be sold on open market whereas under Sadaam it wasn't. Your analogy of China is good too except for one thing, they have the worlds largest army and have nukes so you can't just jump in and throw dukes with them not that we wouldn't if push came to shove. In the end the world has always had one constant since the beginning of time, well two, might makes right and the one with all the gold makes the rules. There is nothing anybody can or ever has been able to do about that.

War is a continuation of politics by other means (gene hackman, crimson tide). Its also based on greed, one country has something, another country wants to take it.

Your statement about 'might makes right' is what I would call 'a load of crap'. hitler invaded many countries, so did italy and japan, russia invaded and occupied many others after WW2, did that make them right?

 

[OCA]

Hitler didn't have the might, as if he did we'd all be doing the goose step right now. America did and so did Soviet Union which is why Europe ended up divided like it did. I would say America and Soviets being practically equal militarily at time saved the world from being controlled or influenced by one or the other. America is just doing what has been done for centuries, it is extending its influence because it has the power to do so. Rome did it, Greeks did it, Persians did it, Spain etc etc. One difference though is America is not colonizing as these other powers did, that argument can't be made. But you cannot argue that throughout history the most powerful nations have always used their power and influence to control events and situations. Thats a simple historical fact.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Hitler didn't have the might, as if he did we'd all be doing the goose step right now.

so his takeover and occupation of poland, france, and some other countries are a blatant historical lie? Just because he wasn't able to keep up his world domination crusade does not invalidate his victories over the countries that he obtained.

I would say America and Soviets being practically equal militarily at time saved the world from being controlled or influenced by one or the other.

it may have saved the world but the process was pretty painful for alot of countries caught in the crossfire.

But you cannot argue that throughout history the most powerful nations have always used their power and influence to control events and situations. Thats a simple historical fact.

You misspoke yourself I think, I think what you meant to say is that you cannot argue that they 'didn't' use their power and influence, and you're right about that. that is a simple historical fact.