The Ultimate Secular Christmas "Hymn"

[sparky]

About SANTA. About Christmas, but all the secular parts. Just SANTA. Which in itself, as we all know, is a FAIRY. TALE.

Well would you walk into class and break 30 little hearts with the truth Sue?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

What do you think?

we do it every xmas gig>

we'll also wear corny xmas hats , so if there's any athiests offended i'll personally pay them back their door fee to get the F out of our Xmas gig

~S~

I doubt you will find any atheists offended. You will infinitely more likely to find religious people pre emptively whining and wringing their hands, like in your post. Or, other religious people whining that "you're not doing it right".

 

[SweetSue92]

I didn't hear anything like Rudolph or Jingle Bells. What I heard was something quite spiritual. The song is all about belief and the words urge everyone to act upon what their heart is telling them. I can easily see how Christians could apply this song to their faith.

The following verse strongly suggests a life beyond this mortal existence; a final, wonderful destination:

“Trains move quickly to their journey's end
Destinations are where we begin again
Ships go sailing far across the sea
Trusting starlight to get where they need to be
When it seems that we have lost our way
We find ourselves again on Christmas day.”

The song was not written about children at Christmas time; it was written for adults who have become so entangled in the secular word they have lost site of something more important. They lost their simple childlike faith. I believe the Bible addresses this issue:

“And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein” Mark 10:13-15, KJV).

That's just my humble opinion. Your question deserved an answer and I've done my best to explain how I feel. I'm certain that others will have a different interpretation. Poetry, good poetry, makes one think.

That's not good poetry IMO because it's a collection of trite observations and does not convey any truths in a novel way. It's inspirational poster speak, and the ending is particularly meaningless. WHAT do we find on Christmas Day?

 

[SweetSue92]

About SANTA. About Christmas, but all the secular parts. Just SANTA. Which in itself, as we all know, is a FAIRY. TALE.

Well would you walk into class and break 30 little hearts with the truth Sue?

Not in a million years. But then, Santa Claus is for children. It's when adults buy into the sentimentality that the inconsistencies arise.

 

[Moonglow]

I am not pagan or Christian enough to be suckered into a holiday in which the more you spend the more you love...

 

[The Professor]

I didn't hear anything like Rudolph or Jingle Bells. What I heard was something quite spiritual. The song is all about belief and the words urge everyone to act upon what their heart is telling them. I can easily see how Christians could apply this song to their faith.

The following verse strongly suggests a life beyond this mortal existence; a final, wonderful destination:

“Trains move quickly to their journey's end
Destinations are where we begin again
Ships go sailing far across the sea
Trusting starlight to get where they need to be
When it seems that we have lost our way
We find ourselves again on Christmas day.”

The song was not written about children at Christmas time; it was written for adults who have become so entangled in the secular word they have lost site of something more important. They lost their simple childlike faith. I believe the Bible addresses this issue:

“And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein” Mark 10:13-15, KJV).

That's just my humble opinion. Your question deserved an answer and I've done my best to explain how I feel. I'm certain that others will have a different interpretation. Poetry, good poetry, makes one think.

That's not good poetry IMO because it's a collection of trite observations and does not convey any truths in a novel way. It's inspirational poster speak, and the ending is particularly meaningless. WHAT do we find on Christmas Day?

I respect your opinion but I have my own. What you think in no way determines what I believe and I know the converse is true. I have nothing further to say.

 

[rightwinger]

I know people go wild for this Josh Groban song, but as I heard it on the radio yesterday, two things occurred to me:

1. The sentimentality of it is based on nothing. Absolutely nothing. I would never have my students sing this song because I recognize that straight away. "Dreams", "destinations", but mostly, some nebulous "feeling" that is fleeting and tentative. Footie pajamas, opening presents, snow, hot chocolate--I don't know what. Do not get me wrong: there are very good songs about working toward and achieving dreams. This is not one of them.

2. It's sentimental schlock. It's Christmas without any religion. It's what you're left with when it's all holiday with no foundation. I say that's fine if you're trying for Rudolph and Let it Snow and Jingle Bells. When you try to reach for Meaningful, you end up with....this.

What do you think?

Polar Express was a movie about the belief in Santa and how it gradually slips away as you grow

The song reflects that

Not all Christmas songs need to be about Baby Jesus

 

[SweetSue92]

I know people go wild for this Josh Groban song, but as I heard it on the radio yesterday, two things occurred to me:

1. The sentimentality of it is based on nothing. Absolutely nothing. I would never have my students sing this song because I recognize that straight away. "Dreams", "destinations", but mostly, some nebulous "feeling" that is fleeting and tentative. Footie pajamas, opening presents, snow, hot chocolate--I don't know what. Do not get me wrong: there are very good songs about working toward and achieving dreams. This is not one of them.

2. It's sentimental schlock. It's Christmas without any religion. It's what you're left with when it's all holiday with no foundation. I say that's fine if you're trying for Rudolph and Let it Snow and Jingle Bells. When you try to reach for Meaningful, you end up with....this.

What do you think?

Polar Express was a movie about the belief in Santa and how it gradually slips away as you grow

The song reflects that

Not all Christmas songs need to be about Baby Jesus

Exactly. Just what I said. And it's exactly right that as children grow they lose their belief, and it's nothing particularly wonderful to hold onto. And I have already conceded that I have no problem with songs that are secular. It's when secular songs try to be Meaningful that you get sentimental schlock like this.

 

[SweetSue92]

I didn't hear anything like Rudolph or Jingle Bells. What I heard was something quite spiritual. The song is all about belief and the words urge everyone to act upon what their heart is telling them. I can easily see how Christians could apply this song to their faith.

The following verse strongly suggests a life beyond this mortal existence; a final, wonderful destination:

“Trains move quickly to their journey's end
Destinations are where we begin again
Ships go sailing far across the sea
Trusting starlight to get where they need to be
When it seems that we have lost our way
We find ourselves again on Christmas day.”

The song was not written about children at Christmas time; it was written for adults who have become so entangled in the secular word they have lost site of something more important. They lost their simple childlike faith. I believe the Bible addresses this issue:

“And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein” Mark 10:13-15, KJV).

That's just my humble opinion. Your question deserved an answer and I've done my best to explain how I feel. I'm certain that others will have a different interpretation. Poetry, good poetry, makes one think.

That's not good poetry IMO because it's a collection of trite observations and does not convey any truths in a novel way. It's inspirational poster speak, and the ending is particularly meaningless. WHAT do we find on Christmas Day?

I respect your opinion but I have my own. What you think in no way determines what I believe and I know the converse is true. I have nothing further to say.

Well this is an opinion forum. So of course you have an opinion that you're going to state--isn't that why we come here? And to read and trade them? We don't come here for recipes and weather.

 

[BreezeWood]

I know people go wild for this Josh Groban song, but as I heard it on the radio yesterday, two things occurred to me:

1. The sentimentality of it is based on nothing. Absolutely nothing. I would never have my students sing this song because I recognize that straight away. "Dreams", "destinations", but mostly, some nebulous "feeling" that is fleeting and tentative. Footie pajamas, opening presents, snow, hot chocolate--I don't know what. Do not get me wrong: there are very good songs about working toward and achieving dreams. This is not one of them.

2. It's sentimental schlock. It's Christmas without any religion. It's what you're left with when it's all holiday with no foundation. I say that's fine if you're trying for Rudolph and Let it Snow and Jingle Bells. When you try to reach for Meaningful, you end up with....this.

What do you think?

It says "You're a special snowflake, you can do anything if you just believe in yourself." A la Secular Humanism, removing Christ from Christmas.

While that's a good attitude to have, at times it's best to realize when things are not going as expected and try something different. It's also good to realize there may be forces at work bigger than yourself around.


2 things Christmas centers around:

Bible Gateway passage: Luke 2:1-20 - King James Version


and/or

https://www.biography.com/people/st-nicholas-204635

Either way, it's a Christian holiday.

.

Either way, it's a Christian holiday.

The following Federal holidays are established by law (5 U.S.C. 6103):

• New Year's Day (January 1).
• Birthday of Martin Luther King, Jr. (Third Monday in January).
• Washington's Birthday (Third Monday in February).
• Memorial Day (Last Monday in May).
• Independence Day (July 4).
• Labor Day (First Monday in September).
• Columbus Day (Second Monday in October).
• Veterans Day (November 11).
• Thanksgiving Day (Fourth Thursday in November).
• Christmas Day (December 25).

what do you mean, either way, morrison - its a christian holiday, not to mention its always been a holiday, the winter solstice since recorded time ...

what's phony is your religion choosing that time to selfishly then claim it is for you alone.


you too sweety, buttout with your anti-secular rhetoric for the Holiday's celebration, solstice your religion purposely chose having nothing to do with religion but to encourage worshiping your fictitious messiah.

 

[rightwinger]

I know people go wild for this Josh Groban song, but as I heard it on the radio yesterday, two things occurred to me:

1. The sentimentality of it is based on nothing. Absolutely nothing. I would never have my students sing this song because I recognize that straight away. "Dreams", "destinations", but mostly, some nebulous "feeling" that is fleeting and tentative. Footie pajamas, opening presents, snow, hot chocolate--I don't know what. Do not get me wrong: there are very good songs about working toward and achieving dreams. This is not one of them.

2. It's sentimental schlock. It's Christmas without any religion. It's what you're left with when it's all holiday with no foundation. I say that's fine if you're trying for Rudolph and Let it Snow and Jingle Bells. When you try to reach for Meaningful, you end up with....this.

What do you think?

Polar Express was a movie about the belief in Santa and how it gradually slips away as you grow

The song reflects that

Not all Christmas songs need to be about Baby Jesus

Exactly. Just what I said. And it's exactly right that as children grow they lose their belief, and it's nothing particularly wonderful to hold onto. And I have already conceded that I have no problem with songs that are secular. It's when secular songs try to be Meaningful that you get sentimental schlock like this.

Why can’t secular songs be meaningful?

Most Christian hymns are sentimental schlock too

 

[sparky]

Most Christian hymns are sentimental schlock too

especially in a room full o' drunk rednecks....~S~

 

[SweetSue92]

I know people go wild for this Josh Groban song, but as I heard it on the radio yesterday, two things occurred to me:

1. The sentimentality of it is based on nothing. Absolutely nothing. I would never have my students sing this song because I recognize that straight away. "Dreams", "destinations", but mostly, some nebulous "feeling" that is fleeting and tentative. Footie pajamas, opening presents, snow, hot chocolate--I don't know what. Do not get me wrong: there are very good songs about working toward and achieving dreams. This is not one of them.

2. It's sentimental schlock. It's Christmas without any religion. It's what you're left with when it's all holiday with no foundation. I say that's fine if you're trying for Rudolph and Let it Snow and Jingle Bells. When you try to reach for Meaningful, you end up with....this.

What do you think?

It says "You're a special snowflake, you can do anything if you just believe in yourself." A la Secular Humanism, removing Christ from Christmas.

While that's a good attitude to have, at times it's best to realize when things are not going as expected and try something different. It's also good to realize there may be forces at work bigger than yourself around.


2 things Christmas centers around:

Bible Gateway passage: Luke 2:1-20 - King James Version


and/or

https://www.biography.com/people/st-nicholas-204635

Either way, it's a Christian holiday.

.

Either way, it's a Christian holiday.

The following Federal holidays are established by law (5 U.S.C. 6103):

• New Year's Day (January 1).
• Birthday of Martin Luther King, Jr. (Third Monday in January).
• Washington's Birthday (Third Monday in February).
• Memorial Day (Last Monday in May).
• Independence Day (July 4).
• Labor Day (First Monday in September).
• Columbus Day (Second Monday in October).
• Veterans Day (November 11).
• Thanksgiving Day (Fourth Thursday in November).
• Christmas Day (December 25).

what do you mean, either way, morrison - its a christian holiday, not to mention its always been a holiday, the winter solstice since recorded time ...

what's phony is your religion choosing that time to selfishly then claim it is for you alone.


you too sweety, buttout with your anti-secular rhetoric for the Holiday's celebration, solstice your religion purposely chose having nothing to do with religion but to encourage worshiping your fictitious messiah.

Christmas is Christian.

 

[SweetSue92]

I know people go wild for this Josh Groban song, but as I heard it on the radio yesterday, two things occurred to me:

1. The sentimentality of it is based on nothing. Absolutely nothing. I would never have my students sing this song because I recognize that straight away. "Dreams", "destinations", but mostly, some nebulous "feeling" that is fleeting and tentative. Footie pajamas, opening presents, snow, hot chocolate--I don't know what. Do not get me wrong: there are very good songs about working toward and achieving dreams. This is not one of them.

2. It's sentimental schlock. It's Christmas without any religion. It's what you're left with when it's all holiday with no foundation. I say that's fine if you're trying for Rudolph and Let it Snow and Jingle Bells. When you try to reach for Meaningful, you end up with....this.

What do you think?

Polar Express was a movie about the belief in Santa and how it gradually slips away as you grow

The song reflects that

Not all Christmas songs need to be about Baby Jesus

Exactly. Just what I said. And it's exactly right that as children grow they lose their belief, and it's nothing particularly wonderful to hold onto. And I have already conceded that I have no problem with songs that are secular. It's when secular songs try to be Meaningful that you get sentimental schlock like this.

Why can’t secular songs be meaningful?

Most Christian hymns are sentimental schlock too

They can be meaningful, but not when they are titled "Believe" and are in fact about what no adults--unless they are mentally challenged--believes in. What you are then encouraging is just an onslaught of sentimentality about a holiday that is essentially meaningless. It's not even about the usual "time with family"....it's about believing in a fairy tale. And isn't THAT ironic?

 

[Disir]

I know people go wild for this Josh Groban song, but as I heard it on the radio yesterday, two things occurred to me:

1. The sentimentality of it is based on nothing. Absolutely nothing. I would never have my students sing this song because I recognize that straight away. "Dreams", "destinations", but mostly, some nebulous "feeling" that is fleeting and tentative. Footie pajamas, opening presents, snow, hot chocolate--I don't know what. Do not get me wrong: there are very good songs about working toward and achieving dreams. This is not one of them.

2. It's sentimental schlock. It's Christmas without any religion. It's what you're left with when it's all holiday with no foundation. I say that's fine if you're trying for Rudolph and Let it Snow and Jingle Bells. When you try to reach for Meaningful, you end up with....this.

What do you think?

I'm shocked. SHOCKED!

For 364 days a year people are pro-capitalists and someone made a movie with forgettable songs and charged about $12 a head and expected to make lots of money in all kinds of ways for years to come? Then they attempted to reach all kinds of audiences to make more money and in the same way they keep trying to add a bunch of romance to butcher historical films?

And YOU couldn't find a deeper meaning?

 

[Disir]

Ooo, it says they might produce "The Chronicles of Narnia".



Now that IS based on Christianity, through and through. Great series.

They are going to have to go above and beyond to do it justice.

 

[SweetSue92]

I know people go wild for this Josh Groban song, but as I heard it on the radio yesterday, two things occurred to me:

1. The sentimentality of it is based on nothing. Absolutely nothing. I would never have my students sing this song because I recognize that straight away. "Dreams", "destinations", but mostly, some nebulous "feeling" that is fleeting and tentative. Footie pajamas, opening presents, snow, hot chocolate--I don't know what. Do not get me wrong: there are very good songs about working toward and achieving dreams. This is not one of them.

2. It's sentimental schlock. It's Christmas without any religion. It's what you're left with when it's all holiday with no foundation. I say that's fine if you're trying for Rudolph and Let it Snow and Jingle Bells. When you try to reach for Meaningful, you end up with....this.

What do you think?

I'm shocked. SHOCKED!

For 364 days a year people are pro-capitalists and someone made a movie with forgettable songs and charged about $12 a head and expected to make lots of money in all kinds of ways for years to come? Then they attempted to reach all kinds of audiences to make more money and in the same way they keep trying to add a bunch of romance to butcher historical films?

And YOU couldn't find a deeper meaning?

Never. Never shocked.

I'm only calling out that people attempt to make meaning out of the schlock. That's all.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Christmas is Christian.

Except for when it isn't.

 

[BreezeWood]

Christmas is Christian.

Except for when it isn't.

Except for when it isn't.

they ignored the fact the holiday has been celebrated long before christianity - and also the person Jesus could be recognized for their contributions and tragic death without the fallacy he was somesortof messiah - christmas - they have no proof he ever made such a claim and certainly nothing Jesus himself purposely left physically that would verify the christian claim.

 

[MaryL]

So, well, perhaps this query belongs on another thread, but do non Christians really get to celebrate Christmas? I don't go to mass anymore, I lost my faith years ago. This is a tribal tradition and it has power of it's own. I love this season, the songs and feel of the entire thing. Oh, yeah, happy FESTIVUS, everyone!