The Ugly Truth of Obamacare

Discussion in 'Healthcare/Insurance/Govt Healthcare' started by Zoom-boing, Aug 19, 2009.

  1. Zoom-boing
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    Zoom-boing Gold Member

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    There's is reason to be concerned about end-of-life counseling, but the truth is more complicated. Here's the story.

    The House bill does deal with the issue. (The Senate Finance Committee bill did until the provision was removed the other day.) Section 1233 amends the Medicare law to add "advance care planning consultation"
    (counseling about living wills and the like) to the list of reimbursable services. The provision defines "consultation," but nowhere does it require Medicare beneficiaries to participate or authorize death panels. (Grassley voted for a similar provision in 2003 when his Republican-controlled Congress added drug coverage to Medicare.)

    But even if some conservative Republican critics are wrong about Section 1233, there is good reason to worry about Obama's nationalization scheme.

    The reason can be found in Econ 101. Medical care doesn't grow on trees. It must be produced by human and physical capital, and those resources are limited. Therefore, if demand for health care services increases -- which is Obama's point in extending health insurance -- prices must go up. But somehow Obama also promises, "I won't sign a bill that doesn't reduce health care inflation".

    This is magical thinking. Obama, talented as he is, can't repeal the laws of supply and demand. Costs are real. If they are incurred, someone has to pay them. But as economist Thomas Sowell points out, politicians can control costs -- by refusing to pay for the services.

    It's called rationing.

    Advocates of nationalization hate that word because it forces them to face an ugly truth. If government pays for more people's health care and wants to control costs, it must limit what we buy.

    So much for Obama's promise not to interfere with our freedom of choice.

    This brings us back to end-of-life consultation. As the government's health care budget becomes strained, as it must -- and, as Obama admits, already is under Medicare -- the government will have to cut back on what it lets people have.

    So it is not a leap to foresee government limiting health care, especially to people nearing the end of life. Medical "ethicists" have long lamented that too much money is spent futilely in the last several months of life. Are we supposed to believe that the social engineers haven't read their writings?

    And given the premise that it's government's job to pay for our heath care, concluding that 80-year-olds should get no hip replacements makes sense. The problem is the premise: that taxpayers should pay. Once you accept that, bad things follow.

    In the end, perhaps the biggest objection to nationalized health care is the "principal-agent problem." For whom does the doctor work? Ordinarily, the doctor is the agent of the patient. But when government signs the checks and orders doctors to reduce spending, it is not crazy to think that this won't influence their "advance care planning consultation".

    Freedom is about self-determination. Obama's health care scheme would undermine both.

    RealClearPolitics - The Ugly Truth of Obamacare
     
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  2. Truthmatters
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    Truthmatters BANNED

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    Why is it other countries can provide this service and we are incapable of doing it?

    Are they better at everything than us?
     
  3. veritas
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    veritas OBKB

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    But the government already pays for and controls all healthcare for old people, it's called medicare.


    wanker, you are so owned.
     
  4. Truthmatters
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    Truthmatters BANNED

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    77% of medicare recipients like the program.

    Some of the antihealthcare nutbags came to the town halls telling their reps to keep the gov out of healthcare and leave their medicare alone.

    The police, FBI, Military are just a few gov programs that do indeed work also.
     
  5. Zoom-boing
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    Zoom-boing Gold Member

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    Which will be bellyup in 10 years.

    "As the government's health care budget becomes strained, as it must -- and, as Obama admits, already is under Medicare -- the government will have to cut back on what it lets people have."

    Medicare will be belly up in 10 years.

    "As the government's health care budget becomes strained, as it must -- and, as Obama admits, already is under Medicare -- the government will have to cut back on what it lets people have."
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2009
  6. veritas
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    veritas OBKB

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    then all those old people shall die, die, die?!!!!!!


    still a wanker.
     
  7. Immanuel
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    Immanuel Gold Member

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    Our political leaders on both sides of the aisle are so politically corrupt that the reality of the issue is that should this plan succeed in being approved by Congress and signed by the President, there is only one possible outcome and that is the bankruptcy of the program just like Social Security and Medicare and every other public run subsidy, but even worse than that is the fact that it WILL contribute to the bankruptcy of this country. We simply can not continue to spend like drunken George Bush's and survive. This plan is doomed to failure and dooming the U.S. of A.

    Other countries may have been successful and socializing medicine which is the ultimate goal here, but it is not possible in our current state.

    Immie
     
  8. Immanuel
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    Immanuel Gold Member

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    I don't think so. The social programs we already have will remain with us until the day that our government collapses. If... when Medicare and Social Security go belly up, Congress will simply raise taxes again and again until they have taxed us to death and finally the country's economy collapses.

    Which is why we can't afford to add more!

    Immie
     
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  9. Political Junky
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    Political Junky Gold Member

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    Under Eisenhower, the tax rate for those making over $400,000. was 91%. Our current top rate is 35%.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2009
  10. OneWorld
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    This is one of the dumbest things I've read in quite some time.

    Most of the cost in health care is in the bureaucracy of the health insurance companies. I believe they said over 40% (someone correct if I'm wrong). Cut this out, and you're drastically driving down the cost. Not to mention we already have medicare. Also, almost all doctor associations are in favor of this reform, so they must not be too worried about "giovernment takeover".... they just want to practice medicine without the current "private take over" they are dealing with in insurance companies. Go talk to some doctors at least... jesus people.

    Man, just stop regurgitating what people are saying and think for yourself for a minute.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2009

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