The Trump Conundrum

[JoeB131]

I don't care what they do with their bodies but they shouldn't be allowed to kill other humans with their decisions.

Not your body.. not your decision... DEAL WITH IT!!!!

Well, you know that it's bad, it's the deliberate taking of human life, the most innocent and precious life of all. Without due process, without any consideration whatsoever other than vanity and convenience.

Well, more along the lines of the people who you support have so crushed the middle class people can't afford to have big families anymore. Has nothing to do with "Vanity". Back in the day, My Dad could raise five kids ona union salary and it was fine. Today- man, having two kids is pushing it, even if you are college educated and have a good job. But you keep saying the women are the problem...

That's precisely why you contest the definition of life so fervently. You have to somehow make it not a life... not a living human being. Because you know it's bad and you understand it's wrong.

Guy, you work on an assumption that I really care. Frankly, if your own mother doesn't want you to be in the world, you are truly better off not existing.

Fetuses aren't people. If you don't like the choices women make, take some responsibility for the choices you've forced on them.

You see, every day, hundreds of thousands of people starve to death or die of treatable diseases because they have the bad luck of being poor. But I doubt you give a fig about their "lives". Shit, you don't even want to pay women minimum wage, but you act all suprirsed when they have abortions?

 

[Dragonlady]

No it still doesn't make sense that you want to ignore biology.

It makes even less sense that YOU ignore reality. You talk about wanting to save the lives of the unborn, but you don't want to put your money where your mouth is.

Look at the abortion statistics for Canada - almost half the number of abortions per 1000 as the US. But abortions are free and on demand in Canada. There is no abortion law. Abortion is a matter between a woman and her doctor. A woman who is pregnant is not counselled about the implications of having an abortion, forced to have an ultra-sound she doesn't need, or even wait overnight. She can go to the hospital or a clinic, ask for and receive an abortion. And she pays nothing for that abortion. It's covered by her government health care.

But Canada also has one year mandated maternity leave, during which time her job is protected, and she receives unemployment insurance during her maternity leave. Employers in Canada complain that you can't fire a pregnant woman. It's true. You can't. So poor women don't have to worry about losing their jobs when they get pregnant.

We also have family leave to care for sick family members. For low income families, there is government subsidized day care, when that year is up and she returns to work, but there are long waiting lists for most day care.

Canadian health care is fully funded by the government. There are no co-pays, or extra billing. Not only is the abortion fully covered, but so is the pre-natal care, the post-natal care, the delivery and the birth. The child's health care is fully covered from the moment of birth.

Canada provides help and support for low income women to have and keep their babies. If you want to reduce the number of abortions and save these precious lives, this is the way to do it.

 

[JoeB131]

Canada provides help and support for low income women to have and keep their babies. If you want to reduce the number of abortions and save these precious lives, this is the way to do it.

Oh, DL, there you go being LOGICAL again.

Boss doesn't care about practical results. He just cares about his rigid ideology.

Paid health leave.... that sounds like SOCIALISM!!!!!!!! We should let the market decide.

Except when the market decides that having an abortion is easier than having a baby you can't feed on minimum wage, then he wants to punish those dirty, dirty girls.

 

[Boss]

I love how you "progressives" like to change the debate to one of health care and social welfare instead of staying on topic. That tells us you really have no argument here. You may be interested to know, back in the day, pro-slavery advocates made the same arguments against abolition. Not just the same arguments but the same tactics of avoiding the subject with superficial clap trap about costs and who would pay.

 

[JoeB131]

I love how you "progressives" like to change the debate to one of health care and social welfare instead of staying on topic. That tells us you really have no argument here. You may be interested to know, back in the day, pro-slavery advocates made the same arguments against abolition. Not just the same arguments but the same tactics of avoiding the subject with superficial clap trap about costs and who would pay.

Actually, people who advocated slavery made the same argument you make about "States Rights" and how the Founding Fathers wanted the Federal Government to be weak.... but never mind.

Uh, guy, abortion is a medical procedure... you really do need to discuss it in terms of health care.

Now, I think both sides use dishonest arguments. The "Pro-Life" side just can't stop talking about late abortions (only 1% take place after week 20, when the fetus still isn't viable) and the "Pro-Choice" side likes to talk about rape and incest, because even though they are only 1/10 of 1% of abortions performed, talking about them will always get the nuts saying things like "Gift from God" rape and "Legitimate" rape.

The delusion you whackadoodles have is that you think Roe v. Wade opened the floodgates to a deluge of abortions. It did no such thing. The reality is, abortion was being regularly done by OB/GYN's and women who were ignoring laws that the states had stopped enforcing a long time ago.

The only reason why it became a big deal to the right was because the CHristian Right - which was initially formed as a reaction to forced desegregation- needed an issue that tested well.

The fact is, you don't give a fuck about the "babies'. One only has to look at your social welfare policy to see that. This is the rich playing you fools by appealing to your religious and sexual fears. The very thought that a woman could snuff out your seed horrifies the lot of you.

 

[Boss]

Like I said, you have no more argument. You are now grandstanding.

 

[JoeB131]

Like I said, you have no more argument. You are now grandstanding.

Guy, I've made the argument. You've just cast your "Ignore Reality" spell where you pretend the world doesn't work the way it really does.