The Trump Conundrum

[kaz]

You're either conservative about everything or fu

I ran into an outspoken Republican partisan on Twitter the other day.

He was going on and on bashing liberals he was engaging with.

I jump into the fray with my usual style, asking questions, I asked him, "Is Trump a conservative?"

I had to repeat it like 3 times before he finally caved, and his answer was basically "no."

Then he blocked me.

What does that tell you?

#LOLGOP #SMHGOP

That tells me you have no honesty about the Hildabeast and she she means to you

Trumps losing by 15 points. Good luck stupid.

Trumps going birther! He's insane

Trump sucking doesn't make Hillary any better, Holmes

You guys been sayin she sucks 4 40 years. As far as politicians go she's not bad.

You righties need to stop with the either you're a con or you suck schtick. We think you guys suck. That's why trumps running and not a real Republican. Reform your party first then we will go along. Kick out the Ryan's and McCain's too not just the rubio Cruz jeb kasichs. Your house is still not clean.

Our house is cleaner than yours.

Only reason Republicans are relevant is because people don't show up to midterms

She's a psychopathic liar. Her taking the lead on publicly attacking women who speak up over her sexual predator husband is far worse than everything Trump did in his career combined

 

[Boss]

It's about the size of a dime. It won't live 10 seconds outside the womb.

How large it is or how long it can survive outside of it's reasonably expected parameters for existence doesn't change what it is. It began as a conception of a male spermatozoa and female egg cell in the uterus. Once the fused cells reproduced, it became a living human organism and human being. (It is, in fact, in a state of being or existing.) It doesn't require anything else to become what it already is. We can dance around with pictures and rhetoric denying what it is.... but that's not honest.

So whenever you want to be honest and let's begin the debate with... It's a human life... what do we do? Then, I am willing to have that debate... that's fine... we can do that... but when most pro-choicers wish to diminish the argument by refusing to accept known facts and approach this from a viewpoint of total dishonesty, we have to clear that up first. It IS a human life. It IS a human being.

 

[Dragonlady]

Trump sucking doesn't make Hillary any better, Holmes

When you stop believe the bullshit lies Republicans have been telling about her. Contrary to the lies, she does't lie as much as the others, she's not corrupt - the Clinton Foundation is world renowned for the fine work they do in Africa, getting girls educated, fighting AIDS, and other diseases, helping with the micro economies, but at home, Hillary is reviled for her Foundation, and we're going to have another useless investigation.

And if, like Boss, you go with option A and believe her to be the smartest most corrupt pol ever, I'd rather have the smart one running the country than the guy so stupid he went broke running a casino, four times.

What lies have the Republicans told about her?

Whitewater, Travelgate, Vince Foster, Benghazi, lousy job as Secretary of State, stole $200,00 worth of stuff from the White House when they left, Clinton Foundation Pay for Play allegations, email scandal - All of which have been investigated thoroughly by the press and by Republicans, Special Counsels, and the FBI, and not a single charge has been laid. Not a single whistle blower has come forward. No evidence has ever been found.

 

[EriktheRed]

Trump sucking doesn't make Hillary any better, Holmes

When you stop believe the bullshit lies Republicans have been telling about her. Contrary to the lies, she does't lie as much as the others, she's not corrupt - the Clinton Foundation is world renowned for the fine work they do in Africa, getting girls educated, fighting AIDS, and other diseases, helping with the micro economies, but at home, Hillary is reviled for her Foundation, and we're going to have another useless investigation.

And if, like Boss, you go with option A and believe her to be the smartest most corrupt pol ever, I'd rather have the smart one running the country than the guy so stupid he went broke running a casino, four times.

What lies have the Republicans told about her?

Whitewater, Travelgate, Vince Foster, Benghazi, lousy job as Secretary of State, stole $200,00 worth of stuff from the White House when they left, Clinton Foundation Pay for Play allegations, email scandal - All of which have been investigated thoroughly by the press and by Republicans, Special Counsels, and the FBI, and not a single charge has been laid. Not a single whistle blower has come forward. No evidence has ever been found.

Whole lotta smoke, no fire.

 

[kaz]

Trump sucking doesn't make Hillary any better, Holmes

When you stop believe the bullshit lies Republicans have been telling about her. Contrary to the lies, she does't lie as much as the others, she's not corrupt - the Clinton Foundation is world renowned for the fine work they do in Africa, getting girls educated, fighting AIDS, and other diseases, helping with the micro economies, but at home, Hillary is reviled for her Foundation, and we're going to have another useless investigation.

And if, like Boss, you go with option A and believe her to be the smartest most corrupt pol ever, I'd rather have the smart one running the country than the guy so stupid he went broke running a casino, four times.

What lies have the Republicans told about her?

Whitewater, Travelgate, Vince Foster, Benghazi, lousy job as Secretary of State, stole $200,00 worth of stuff from the White House when they left, Clinton Foundation Pay for Play allegations, email scandal - All of which have been investigated thoroughly by the press and by Republicans, Special Counsels, and the FBI, and not a single charge has been laid. Not a single whistle blower has come forward. No evidence has ever been found.

Wow, that post is a total lie, Mrs. Mao. Hillary was guilty of at least unethical behavior in every one of those

 

[kaz]

Trump sucking doesn't make Hillary any better, Holmes

When you stop believe the bullshit lies Republicans have been telling about her. Contrary to the lies, she does't lie as much as the others, she's not corrupt - the Clinton Foundation is world renowned for the fine work they do in Africa, getting girls educated, fighting AIDS, and other diseases, helping with the micro economies, but at home, Hillary is reviled for her Foundation, and we're going to have another useless investigation.

And if, like Boss, you go with option A and believe her to be the smartest most corrupt pol ever, I'd rather have the smart one running the country than the guy so stupid he went broke running a casino, four times.

What lies have the Republicans told about her?

Whitewater, Travelgate, Vince Foster, Benghazi, lousy job as Secretary of State, stole $200,00 worth of stuff from the White House when they left, Clinton Foundation Pay for Play allegations, email scandal - All of which have been investigated thoroughly by the press and by Republicans, Special Counsels, and the FBI, and not a single charge has been laid. Not a single whistle blower has come forward. No evidence has ever been found.

Whole lotta smoke, no fire.

She was protected by the partisan Democrats and leftist media over and over

 

[Dragonlady]

I ran into an outspoken Republican partisan on Twitter the other day.

He was going on and on bashing liberals he was engaging with.

I jump into the fray with my usual style, asking questions, I asked him, "Is Trump a conservative?"

I had to repeat it like 3 times before he finally caved, and his answer was basically "no."

Then he blocked me.

What does that tell you?

#LOLGOP #SMHGOP

That tells me you have no honesty about the Hildabeast and she she means to you

Trumps losing by 15 points. Good luck stupid.

Trumps going birther! He's insane

Trump sucking doesn't make Hillary any better, Holmes

You guys been sayin she sucks 4 40 years. As far as politicians go she's not bad.

You righties need to stop with the either you're a con or you suck schtick. We think you guys suck. That's why trumps running and not a real Republican. Reform your party first then we will go along. Kick out the Ryan's and McCain's too not just the rubio Cruz jeb kasichs. Your house is still not clean.

Our house is cleaner than yours.

Only reason Republicans are relevant is because people don't show up to midterms

She's a psychopathic liar. Her taking the lead on publicly attacking women who speak up over her sexual predator husband is far worse than everything Trump did in his career combined

Really. Worse than cheating people out of their life's savings? Worse than causing businesses to fail?

Unlike the people Trump cheated, none of these women filed suit, laid charges, or did anything other than give an interview to a Republican publication, but not to any mainstream media. In the MSM, these women deny everything. The allegations in the Republican publication are untrue. That's not what happened. Which version are we to believe?

Monica certainly never complained that Hillary came after her. Paul Jones contends that Hillary had to have known, but that implies that she never spoke with Hillary about her husband, doesn't it. Why would Hillary go after women who had never gone to the press, and leave those who had, alone? Makes no sense.

 

[Dragonlady]

Trump sucking doesn't make Hillary any better, Holmes

When you stop believe the bullshit lies Republicans have been telling about her. Contrary to the lies, she does't lie as much as the others, she's not corrupt - the Clinton Foundation is world renowned for the fine work they do in Africa, getting girls educated, fighting AIDS, and other diseases, helping with the micro economies, but at home, Hillary is reviled for her Foundation, and we're going to have another useless investigation.

And if, like Boss, you go with option A and believe her to be the smartest most corrupt pol ever, I'd rather have the smart one running the country than the guy so stupid he went broke running a casino, four times.

What lies have the Republicans told about her?

Whitewater, Travelgate, Vince Foster, Benghazi, lousy job as Secretary of State, stole $200,00 worth of stuff from the White House when they left, Clinton Foundation Pay for Play allegations, email scandal - All of which have been investigated thoroughly by the press and by Republicans, Special Counsels, and the FBI, and not a single charge has been laid. Not a single whistle blower has come forward. No evidence has ever been found.

Wow, that post is a total lie, Mrs. Mao. Hillary was guilty of at least unethical behavior in every one of those

All right, let's take one of the most egregious lies. That the Clintons stole $200,000 worth of stuff from the White House when they left.

Presidential families are allowed to receive personal gifts while in the White House, and to take those things with them when they leave. Nancy Reagan had received a gift of some very expensive china while in the White House and tried to take it with her when she left, but those who gifted the China said the gift was to the White House, not to Mrs. Reagan personally. No one accused Mrs. Reagan of trying to steal the china.

This is exactly what happened when the Clintons turned in their list of gifts they were taking with them. Republicans made a big stink about these gifts, accused the Clintons of "stealing stuff" from the White House, and the Clintons quietly returned some of the things, and paid for others. It was petty politics on the part of Republicans, but you still think the Clintons stole stuff from the White House. At the end of this petty farce, the White House returned about $25,000 worth of furniture gifted to the Clintons which Bill and Hillary returned in error.

All of the stuff which was investigated turned up NOTHING. If they were so dirty, how do they keep getting away with it? Why haven't they been caught? People turned on Nixon, on Reagan, and W's crowd owned corporations the government was contracting with. Nothing happened to them.

W got over 3,000 Americans killed in Iraq, and over 100,000 Iraqi's, because he lied to the American people, and you're good with that, but Hillary Clinton didn't immediately call the Benghazi attack a terrorist attack and this is the worst lie ever told by anyone? How deranged are you people?

Dick Cheney outed a CIA agent in retaliation for her husband's refusal to say that Saddam Hussein was not in compliance with the UN Resolutions, but Hillary's email, which was never hacked, is the worst thing ever.

Reagan conducted a secret war funded with illegal arms sales and lied to Congress about it, but Hillary can't be trusted because of her email.

Nixon hired and financed a second rate burglary of the DN Headquarters, paid hush money to cover it up, and lied to Congress. Ford pardoned him.

You people got a lot of damn gall going on and on and on about shit you make up about Hillary Clinton.

 

[kaz]

That tells me you have no honesty about the Hildabeast and she she means to you

Trumps losing by 15 points. Good luck stupid.

Trumps going birther! He's insane

Trump sucking doesn't make Hillary any better, Holmes

You guys been sayin she sucks 4 40 years. As far as politicians go she's not bad.

You righties need to stop with the either you're a con or you suck schtick. We think you guys suck. That's why trumps running and not a real Republican. Reform your party first then we will go along. Kick out the Ryan's and McCain's too not just the rubio Cruz jeb kasichs. Your house is still not clean.

Our house is cleaner than yours.

Only reason Republicans are relevant is because people don't show up to midterms

She's a psychopathic liar. Her taking the lead on publicly attacking women who speak up over her sexual predator husband is far worse than everything Trump did in his career combined

Really. Worse than cheating people out of their life's savings? Worse than causing businesses to fail?

Unlike the people Trump cheated, none of these women filed suit, laid charges, or did anything other than give an interview to a Republican publication, but not to any mainstream media. In the MSM, these women deny everything. The allegations in the Republican publication are untrue. That's not what happened. Which version are we to believe?

Monica certainly never complained that Hillary came after her. Paul Jones contends that Hillary had to have known, but that implies that she never spoke with Hillary about her husband, doesn't it. Why would Hillary go after women who had never gone to the press, and leave those who had, alone? Makes no sense.

When you say who do "we" believe, you believe the one with the D after their name no matter how ridiculous their story is.

Like Hillary saying that Comey said she told the truth ...

As for Trump, begging the question

 

[kaz]

Dick Cheney outed a CIA agent in retaliation for her husband's refusal to say that Saddam Hussein was not in compliance with the UN Resolutions

Perfect example of the lies you tell. Valery told the press she was in the CIA. Explain how this makes any sense at all.

Tim Russert said she talked about it at cocktail parties. Girl say who "outed" Plame?

Your stories are a bunch of lies

 

[Dragonlady]

Trump sucking doesn't make Hillary any better, Holmes

When you stop believe the bullshit lies Republicans have been telling about her. Contrary to the lies, she does't lie as much as the others, she's not corrupt - the Clinton Foundation is world renowned for the fine work they do in Africa, getting girls educated, fighting AIDS, and other diseases, helping with the micro economies, but at home, Hillary is reviled for her Foundation, and we're going to have another useless investigation.

And if, like Boss, you go with option A and believe her to be the smartest most corrupt pol ever, I'd rather have the smart one running the country than the guy so stupid he went broke running a casino, four times.

What lies have the Republicans told about her?

Whitewater, Travelgate, Vince Foster, Benghazi, lousy job as Secretary of State, stole $200,00 worth of stuff from the White House when they left, Clinton Foundation Pay for Play allegations, email scandal - All of which have been investigated thoroughly by the press and by Republicans, Special Counsels, and the FBI, and not a single charge has been laid. Not a single whistle blower has come forward. No evidence has ever been found.

Wow, that post is a total lie, Mrs. Mao. Hillary was guilty of at least unethical behavior in every one of those

Found guilty by whom? Not Republicans, not a court of law. The only people who found Clinton guilty of anything are right wing media and idiots like yourself. Republicans started the rumours that led to the investigations in the first place. The plant a smoke bomb, and then say "Where's there's smoke there's fire".

Tax payers pay for all of these investigations, but nothing is ever found. Her email wasn't hacked. No sensitive material was stolen. Email is not a vehicle for highly sensitive material at the best of times. Yes she had more than one device - back in her office in Washington. On the road, she had her Blackberry.

You have turned over ever single detail of this woman's life for the past 25 years and have found NOTHING. Because the allegations are always based on Republican lies, in the first place.

 

[Dragonlady]

Dick Cheney outed a CIA agent in retaliation for her husband's refusal to say that Saddam Hussein was not in compliance with the UN Resolutions

Perfect example of the lies you tell. Valery told the press she was in the CIA. Explain how this makes any sense at all.

Tim Russert said she talked about it at cocktail parties. Girl say who "outed" Plame?

Your stories are a bunch of lies

Bullshit:

Plame affair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Key Players in the Valerie Plame Affair

No mention of Tim Russert or cocktail parties in either of these stories, just retaliation by Cheney, and ruining this woman's career for daring to tell the truth.

 

[JoeB131]

How large it is or how long it can survive outside of it's reasonably expected parameters for existence doesn't change what it is.

Actually, it really does. That's why the Courts drew distinctions on viability Roe v. Wade, before deciding that a woman's health was paramount in Doe v. Boland.

It began as a conception of a male spermatozoa and female egg cell in the uterus. Once the fused cells reproduced, it became a living human organism and human being. (It is, in fact, in a state of being or existing.) It doesn't require anything else to become what it already is. We can dance around with pictures and rhetoric denying what it is.... but that's not honest.

By that logic, every fertilized zygote is a human being. You do realize that 2/3rds of Fertilized Zygotes do not attached themselves to the uterine wall. But by the logic you've just put out, every fucking tampon is a crime scene. Maybe every tampon should come with a little coffin, and we can invite a clergyman over to say a few words.

So whenever you want to be honest and let's begin the debate with... It's a human life... what do we do? Then, I am willing to have that debate... that's fine... we can do that... but when most pro-choicers wish to diminish the argument by refusing to accept known facts and approach this from a viewpoint of total dishonesty, we have to clear that up first. It IS a human life. It IS a human being.

I'm honestly NOT willing to have that debate with you assholes until you stop trying to steal food out of the mouths of hungry kids who are undeniably kids.

Beyond that, if the woman doesn't want it, it's MEDICAL WASTE. Period.

 

[Slyhunter]

Well I can post actual pictures of aborted fetuses at that age but they're pretty graphic. You can google it if you need to confirm but yes... the illustration is fairly accurate. And again, we've already established that if a living organism does exist, it has to be human, it can't be anything else. It is at the early stage of development known as the fetal stage.

Trying to fantasize and pretend that a fetus is something other than what science says it is, puts you in the category of an ignorant person. But then, you're a bigoted racist and most of them are ignorant people.

Um, no, it really isn't... This is what a fetus looks like when most abortions are performed.

It's about the size of a dime. It won't live 10 seconds outside the womb.

And I'd take you wingnuts concern about Children a little more seriously if you weren't trying to yank food stamps and school lunches out of the mouths of hungry kids to give tax cut to millionaires.

So how about it. We do a tradeoff. I'll support a ban on elective abortions if you support a cradle to grave - no scratch that- Conception to grave welfare state...
Deal?

You keep jumping around. When we talk about late term abortions you jump to early term ones. When we agree that you might have an argument about early one you go back to wanting the whole thing again. Late term abortions should be outlawed because they are murder. Arguing about early term abortions can go on as usual but you should agree with us about late term abortions.

 

[Dragonlady]

You keep jumping around. When we talk about late term abortions you jump to early term ones. When we agree that you might have an argument about early one you go back to wanting the whole thing again. Late term abortions should be outlawed because they are murder. Arguing about early term abortions can go on as usual but you should agree with us about late term abortions.

Late term abortion are very rarely performed, and when they are, it is nearly always because the life of the mother or the child is endangered. These abortions, more than any must remain legal, as they are almost always performed for strictly medical reasons, and to preserve the life of the mother.

 

[Slyhunter]

You keep jumping around. When we talk about late term abortions you jump to early term ones. When we agree that you might have an argument about early one you go back to wanting the whole thing again. Late term abortions should be outlawed because they are murder. Arguing about early term abortions can go on as usual but you should agree with us about late term abortions.

Late term abortion are very rarely performed, and when they are, it is nearly always because the life of the mother or the child is endangered. These abortions, more than any must remain legal, as they are almost always performed for strictly medical reasons, and to preserve the life of the mother.

Then you shouldn't mind if they rewrite the law saying late term abortions are illegal unless medically necessary for the life of the mother.

 

[Boss]

How large it is or how long it can survive outside of it's reasonably expected parameters for existence doesn't change what it is.

Actually, it really does. That's why the Courts drew distinctions on viability Roe v. Wade, before deciding that a woman's health was paramount in Doe v. Boland.

I'm familiar with court cases... Courts are not science or biology. Distinctions on "viability" by their very nature, confirm the existence of a human being. Literally, it is the court's opinion that the fetus is not a viable human being. There is no denial of science. It IS a human being. Again, how long it can survive outside it's reasonably expected parameters (viability) doesn't change what it is.

It began as a conception of a male spermatozoa and female egg cell in the uterus. Once the fused cells reproduced, it became a living human organism and human being. (It is, in fact, in a state of being or existing.) It doesn't require anything else to become what it already is. We can dance around with pictures and rhetoric denying what it is.... but that's not honest.

By that logic, every fertilized zygote is a human being. You do realize that 2/3rds of Fertilized Zygotes do not attached themselves to the uterine wall. But by the logic you've just put out, every fucking tampon is a crime scene. Maybe every tampon should come with a little coffin, and we can invite a clergyman over to say a few words.

Again, there is no special logic, it's simple biological fact. A zygote is a human being in the zygote stage of development. It can't be anything else... it's living, it's an organism and it's human. Whether the organism is capable of accomplishing a feat doesn't change what the organism is. Tampons, clergy and coffins is your silly way of showing you can't refute biological fact.

So whenever you want to be honest and let's begin the debate with... It's a human life... what do we do? Then, I am willing to have that debate... that's fine... we can do that... but when most pro-choicers wish to diminish the argument by refusing to accept known facts and approach this from a viewpoint of total dishonesty, we have to clear that up first. It IS a human life. It IS a human being.

I'm honestly NOT willing to have that debate with you assholes until you stop trying to steal food out of the mouths of hungry kids who are undeniably kids.

Beyond that, if the woman doesn't want it, it's MEDICAL WASTE. Period.

Well then you're saying that you intend to keep being dishonest. Now you're appealing to a straw man argument. Social welfare programs or lack thereof, have nothing to do with this. It's just more of your diversion from the fact you can't refute biology.

And yes, according to liberal courts who share your anti-life viewpoint, fetuses (who are human beings) are considered medical waste. That's precisely why you have a vibrant pro-life movement and it's not going away. You will one day be stopped from denying basic human rights to millions of unborn human beings. The ancillary court findings of Roe v Wade will become a small footnote in history. Dishonest people such as yourself, will suddenly find "redemption" and blame the millions of deaths on the right as you always do.

 

[Boss]

You keep jumping around. When we talk about late term abortions you jump to early term ones. When we agree that you might have an argument about early one you go back to wanting the whole thing again. Late term abortions should be outlawed because they are murder. Arguing about early term abortions can go on as usual but you should agree with us about late term abortions.

It's because you are conceding to a position of dishonesty before starting the debate. Life begins at conception. Whether it is "viable" or can perform various tasks and functions, is completely irrelevant to the biology of what it is. Once you have rejected the biology, everything else is a matter of perspective. All kinds of arbitrary lines of distinction can be drawn. Then it's all a matter of opinion where those lines should be. However, approaching the question honestly, by admitting it is a human life, the debate on when it's appropriate to terminate it becomes a legitimate topic grounded in honesty.

 

[JoeB131]

You keep jumping around. When we talk about late term abortions you jump to early term ones. When we agree that you might have an argument about early one you go back to wanting the whole thing again. Late term abortions should be outlawed because they are murder. Arguing about early term abortions can go on as usual but you should agree with us about late term abortions.

Nope. Here's the thing.

1) The only two people who should say whether an abortion should happen at ANY stage is the woman and her doctor. Period.

2) Abortion pisses off the religious assholes. This makes it a good thing.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm familiar with court cases... Courts are not science or biology. Distinctions on "viability" by their very nature, confirm the existence of a human being. Literally, it is the court's opinion that the fetus is not a viable human being. There is no denial of science. It IS a human being. Again, how long it can survive outside it's reasonably expected parameters (viability) doesn't change what it is.

Well, yeah, it kind of does. The reality, of course, is that before Roe, women where having abortions and the doctors were writing down something else on the charts. all the courts did was strike down laws no one was following because they were stupid.

Again, there is no special logic, it's simple biological fact. A zygote is a human being in the zygote stage of development. It can't be anything else... it's living, it's an organism and it's human. Whether the organism is capable of accomplishing a feat doesn't change what the organism is. Tampons, clergy and coffins is your silly way of showing you can't refute biological fact.

then by that logic, we no only need to outlaw abortions, but IUDs, morning after pills, and women exercising after sex. Give little Zygy a chance, baby... And then we need to throw up the Crime Scene Tape around those Tampons to make sure that devious bitch didn't do little Zygy in!!! CSI:Cotex Scene Investigation!!!

Or you phonies can just mind your own business and stop pretend you give a fuck about kids. THis is about putting those uppity bitches in their place.

Well then you're saying that you intend to keep being dishonest. Now you're appealing to a straw man argument. Social welfare programs or lack thereof, have nothing to do with this. It's just more of your diversion from the fact you can't refute biology.

it has everything to do with this. If you guys were serious about saving little Zygy from the Medical Waste container, you'd support programs that would make not putting him there more attractive. Paid family and medical leave, universal health care. The Europeans (eeek! Socialism!!!!) already do this, and they have an abortion rate that is half of ours. Meanwhile, the Philippines have the kind of laws you want, and they have MORE abortions per capita than we do.

But because you are stupid, you don't realize that the One Percent are playing you. They get you all upset about this BULLSHIT so they distract from what they are doing to the middle class- which probably causes more abortions. Women aborting fetuses in their 20's and then desperately trying to get pregnant in their 30's....

And yes, according to liberal courts who share your anti-life viewpoint, fetuses (who are human beings) are considered medical waste. That's precisely why you have a vibrant pro-life movement and it's not going away. You will one day be stopped from denying basic human rights to millions of unborn human beings. The ancillary court findings of Roe v Wade will become a small footnote in history. Dishonest people such as yourself, will suddenly find "redemption" and blame the millions of deaths on the right as you always do.

Guy, what do you think women did about unwanted pregnancies before 1973? Here's a hint. The birth rate did not suddenly drop in 1974. IN fact, in 1975, it started going up again. Women are going to have abortions NO MATTER WHAT THE LAW IS.

As I said before, read up on the Philippines. they have 500K-800K abortions a year, despite abortion being illegal except for threat to life of the mother. or if you want to have some real fun, read about Romania under the Ceasecus (sp). they tried to ban abortion and birth control to increase Romania's population. and it worked for about one year before women figured out how to get around these laws and get abortions and contraception.

again, you guys can't tell women, "you are on your own' after birth and then be horribly surprised when they keep that from happening before birth. so, yeah, we will blame you for the current state of affairs.