The true living God

[ding]

Logically there is only one creator.

That's not logical at all. I didn't create my kids all by myself.

The argument that there are multiple Gods because there are multiple religions is the argument of a child.

Most people accepted that there are multiple gods for most of history. And many adults still do.

At the heart of this debate is whether or not the material world was created by spirit. A position you have never seriously considered.

Au contraire, I've searched for evidence of 'spirit' but have yet to find any. There is plenty I don' t know and can't explain but that is not the same thing.

You also didn't create existence, now did you? That is what we are discussing, right?

 

[ding]

Actually every religion does not claim they are the one true religion. As a Christian I do not have to disagree with every single thing other religions believe. As an atheist, you do.

Do you believe that Christianity is the one true religion?

What does that even mean?

 

[alang1216]

How do you behave in your private life?

Then ask yourself why you do.

This should be self evident.

I don't consider myself particularly virtuous. I can be as selfish, petty, arrogant, annoying, sarcastic, etc. as anyone else. Strangely, I have been very successful in my private life, friends, family, and finances. Doesn't seem to be any connection between virtue and success. I may end up in hell but so far I'm doing well.

 

[ding]

Au contraire, I've searched for evidence of 'spirit' but have yet to find any. There is plenty I don' t know and can't explain but that is not the same thing.

It's inside you. It's not that hard to find.

 

[ding]

How do you behave in your private life?

Then ask yourself why you do.

This should be self evident.

I don't consider myself particularly virtuous. I can be as selfish, petty, arrogant, annoying, sarcastic, etc. as anyone else. Strangely, I have been very successful in my private life, friends, family, and finances. Doesn't seem to be any connection between virtue and success. I may end up in hell but so far I'm doing well.

No one is completely virtuous. The question is is it the rule or the exception. What does your distribution look like?

 

[alang1216]

Actually every religion does not claim they are the one true religion. As a Christian I do not have to disagree with every single thing other religions believe. As an atheist, you do.

Do you believe that Christianity is the one true religion?

What does that even mean?

Is Jesus the Son of God? If not, why are you a Christian? When Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" was he telling the truth, lying, misquoted, or mistaken?

 

[alang1216]

Logically there is only one creator.

That's not logical at all. I didn't create my kids all by myself.

The argument that there are multiple Gods because there are multiple religions is the argument of a child.

Most people accepted that there are multiple gods for most of history. And many adults still do.

At the heart of this debate is whether or not the material world was created by spirit. A position you have never seriously considered.

Au contraire, I've searched for evidence of 'spirit' but have yet to find any. There is plenty I don' t know and can't explain but that is not the same thing.

You also didn't create existence, now did you? That is what we are discussing, right?

So share you logic as to why there can be only one creator.

 

[alang1216]

How do you behave in your private life?

Then ask yourself why you do.

This should be self evident.

I don't consider myself particularly virtuous. I can be as selfish, petty, arrogant, annoying, sarcastic, etc. as anyone else. Strangely, I have been very successful in my private life, friends, family, and finances. Doesn't seem to be any connection between virtue and success. I may end up in hell but so far I'm doing well.

No one is completely virtuous. The question is is it the rule or the exception. What does your distribution look like?

I can only speak for me and I like to think I'm bell curve shaped. (my virtue distribution anyway, otherwise more pear shaped)

 

[ding]

Actually every religion does not claim they are the one true religion. As a Christian I do not have to disagree with every single thing other religions believe. As an atheist, you do.

Do you believe that Christianity is the one true religion?

What does that even mean?

Is Jesus the Son of God? If not, why are you a Christian? When Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" was he telling the truth, lying, misquoted, or mistaken?

I believe he is.

So when he said I am the way that to me is the key. What is meant by the way? To me being Christian is about following the way. The way isn’t just believing that God so loved man that he chose to be born into this world to testify to the truth, it means living it. Anyone can live the way. It just helps if you believe that God loves us.

But hey, read the catechism and you will see that it does not limit God. In fact, it states that God is the final arbiter. God decides if you are worthy.

 

[ding]

Logically there is only one creator.

That's not logical at all. I didn't create my kids all by myself.

The argument that there are multiple Gods because there are multiple religions is the argument of a child.

Most people accepted that there are multiple gods for most of history. And many adults still do.

At the heart of this debate is whether or not the material world was created by spirit. A position you have never seriously considered.

Au contraire, I've searched for evidence of 'spirit' but have yet to find any. There is plenty I don' t know and can't explain but that is not the same thing.

You also didn't create existence, now did you? That is what we are discussing, right?

So share you logic as to why there can be only one creator.

It’s the simplest explanation. The simplest explanation is usually the correct explanation.

The only solution to the first cause conundrum is something which is eternal and unchanging.

Again it is your lack of an attempt to perceive the nature of God that is your problem.

I perceive God as consciousness without form. Not made of matter or energy as we know it but the pure essence of existence. Such that mind created the material world so that beings which know and create would eventually arise.

Basically God is existence. There aren’t multiple existences.

 

[ding]

How do you behave in your private life?

Then ask yourself why you do.

This should be self evident.

I don't consider myself particularly virtuous. I can be as selfish, petty, arrogant, annoying, sarcastic, etc. as anyone else. Strangely, I have been very successful in my private life, friends, family, and finances. Doesn't seem to be any connection between virtue and success. I may end up in hell but so far I'm doing well.

No one is completely virtuous. The question is is it the rule or the exception. What does your distribution look like?

I can only speak for me and I like to think I'm bell curve shaped. (my virtue distribution anyway, otherwise more pear shaped)

So would you say the rule is that you are virtuous and the exception is that you aren’t?

If so, why is it that way?

 

[alang1216]

Actually every religion does not claim they are the one true religion. As a Christian I do not have to disagree with every single thing other religions believe. As an atheist, you do.

Do you believe that Christianity is the one true religion?

What does that even mean?

Is Jesus the Son of God? If not, why are you a Christian? When Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" was he telling the truth, lying, misquoted, or mistaken?

I believe he is.

So when he said I am the way that to me is the key. What is meant by the way? To me being Christian is about following the way. The way isn’t just believing that God so loved man that he chose to be born into this world to testify to the truth, it means living it. Anyone can live the way. It just helps if you believe that God loves us.

But hey, read the catechism and you will see that it does not limit God. In fact, it states that God is the final arbiter. God decides if you are worthy.

What about the other part of the quote, "No one comes to the Father except through me"? What does that mean?

 

[alang1216]

So would you say the rule is that you are virtuous and the exception is that you aren’t?

If so, why is it that way?

I've never met anyone who is 100% virtuous or 100% evil so there are no 'rules' or 'exceptions'. The world is not an either/or place, it is a world of shades of grey.

 

[ding]

Actually every religion does not claim they are the one true religion. As a Christian I do not have to disagree with every single thing other religions believe. As an atheist, you do.

Do you believe that Christianity is the one true religion?

What does that even mean?

Is Jesus the Son of God? If not, why are you a Christian? When Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" was he telling the truth, lying, misquoted, or mistaken?

I believe he is.

So when he said I am the way that to me is the key. What is meant by the way? To me being Christian is about following the way. The way isn’t just believing that God so loved man that he chose to be born into this world to testify to the truth, it means living it. Anyone can live the way. It just helps if you believe that God loves us.

But hey, read the catechism and you will see that it does not limit God. In fact, it states that God is the final arbiter. God decides if you are worthy.

What about the other part of the quote, "No one comes to the Father except through me"? What does that mean?

I can tell you that it doesn’t mean that if you don’t practice Christianity that you won’t be eternally united with the Father.

Does that trouble you? Or just make trolling less fun?

 

[ding]

So would you say the rule is that you are virtuous and the exception is that you aren’t?

If so, why is it that way?

I've never met anyone who is 100% virtuous or 100% evil so there are no 'rules' or 'exceptions'. The world is not an either/or place, it is a world of shades of grey.

That’s odd because you believe your beliefs are moral or good. Everyone does.

 

[alang1216]

What about the other part of the quote, "No one comes to the Father except through me"? What does that mean?

I can tell you that it doesn’t mean that if you don’t practice Christianity that you won’t be eternally united with the Father.

Does that trouble you? Or just make trolling less fun?

Wow, a triple negative, impressive. So you can say what it doesn't mean. Can you say what it does mean?

It does trouble me. I suspect you either don't understand the quote, are embarrassed by what it means, or are not an orthodox Christian. And don't worry, trolling is still fun.

 

[emilynghiem]

Yet every religion claims they are the one true religion and they know this because God said so. They have much in common but they also have many differences. If we should ignore parts of a religion, why not all of it? What's God's plan here?

^ Dear alang1216 ^
This isn't true. Teachings like Buddhism, Bahai and Unitarian Universalism
teach about inclusion of people of all beliefs.

I have found both Buddhism and Christianity can be practiced with any other faith
including Atheism because
* Buddhism is based on Wisdom and Compassion as its two founding principles
that are universal and don't dictate or regulate conditions on anyone's beliefs or faith.
* Christianity is practiced by NONTHEISTS under natural laws that are included as well,
so no conditions on faith are required, but the common driving force that corrects any faults
is the FORGIVENESS factor where people choose to forgive in order to facilitate truth and justice

NOTE: One of my longterm friends and mentors was a well known gay atheist activist in criminal justice reform who taught the SAME THINGS in Christianity about free grace
and forgiveness but didn't rely on using Jesus God or religion. Just taught by natural
laws and it helped as many people forgive and break free from patterns of abuse and addiction and focus on positive purpose and steps in life that help and serve humanity which was
his last words on what he wanted -- was for people to love one another, and focus on what
we can do to HELP others, which he said was the purpose of life. As an ATHEIST. And this
is the same meaning as Christianity where he judged no one, but offered CHARITY and forgiveness to all people and believed in Restorative Justice and working with everyone on it.

Everyone I know has an innate drive or desire for Truth and Justice and wants peace
from stress, fear or suffering we prefer to avoid.

So that is not required in any religion but is naturally inherent in people to begin with.

Buddhism offers guiding principles (and culturally teaches ways of meditating)
to focus on wisdom/understanding and cultivating natural compassion not indoctrination which it advises AGAINST
By DETACHING from material conditions (including emotional or religious)
then by DEFAULT we go back to the NATURAL wisdom and compassion that is WITHIN our human nature by design.

So anyone of any background, belief faith or none, can apply the teachings in Buddhism
to be more at peace and more effective in whatever their path in life is, naturally.

With Christianity, I've had atheist friends benefit from the healing prayer based on FORGIVENESS
that is a NATURAL process universal to all people, especially where we are recovering
from past injustice, wrongs, or other negative conflicts that BIAS our thinking.

By FORGIVING these conflicts we remove those BIASES and become more OBJECTIVE.

ANYONE can benefit from forgiveness and Christian prayer to heal from past abuses and wrongs
in order for the mind and relations to be more at peace.

Buddhism may focus more on the INDIVIDUAL mind and addressing our inner biases, reasoning/conditions, and choices/perceptions affected. while Christianity focuses on improving RELATIONS with other neighbors, so this can be practiced universally
regardless if you are theist or nontheist, Muslim or Buddhist, Atheist or Agnostic, Christian or nonchristian, etc.

the only thing Christian prayer clashes with where I would agree with healers NOT to mix these traditions:
the occult dark negative forces that seek REVENGE and control by attacking and dominating others
is DANGEROUS to mix with Christian healing prayer and can cause WORSE disruption, damage or even death.
People playing with occult dark forces have reported random incidents of drug overdoses, suicides, and other
mental illness catastrophes which spiritual healing could have treated and cured instead. These are opposites
and all the healing practitioners I know of WARN not to play with or mix these energies together or it clashes.

But if you stick to the natural laws that are positive and not negative, these are compatible with Christianity.

In general alang1216 I have found these three "languages for the laws"
to be most compatible and useful in communicating with the majority of people
1. Buddhism which I find is the best way to understand "God" by completely LETTING GO
of all preconceived notions of what God is or is not, what is right or wrong about God and religion etc.
2. Constitutionalism which I find is the best way to teach the true responsibility of Christ Jesus/Restorative Justice
and "Equal Justice Under Law" and equal inclusion and protection of all people by
redressing grievances and resolving conflicts so everyone is equally represented democratically
3. Christianity in particular Christian spiritual healing which I find is the best
way to teach and understand the process of FORGIVENESS in healing mind body and relations with others

I believe you can still be Atheist, Muslim, any religious or political belief or background you identify with
and still practice the same Meditation and MINDFULNESS taught in Buddhism that is universal,
the same Democratic principles of DUE PROCESS and REDRESSING GRIEVANCES by democratic inclusion
taught in Constitutionalism, and still practice forgiveness and correction for healing as in Christianity.

None of these practices require anyone to change their beliefs
except with agreeing to receive help with FORGIVENESS and
possibly renouncing contact with occult dark forces that are dangerous.
Even that can be proven by science some day so more people will
understand both positive healing energy and process and why
we should avoid dark negative energy that is like radioactive and just
too dangerous to make direct contact with but requires protection.

 

[Taz]

Yet every religion claims they are the one true religion and they know this because God said so. They have much in common but they also have many differences. If we should ignore parts of a religion, why not all of it? What's God's plan here?

^ Dear alang1216 ^
This isn't true. Teachings like Buddhism, Bahai and Unitarian Universalism
teach about inclusion of people of all beliefs.

I have found both Buddhism and Christianity can be practiced with any other faith
including Atheism because
* Buddhism is based on Wisdom and Compassion as its two founding principles
that are universal and don't dictate or regulate conditions on anyone's beliefs or faith.
* Christianity is practiced by NONTHEISTS under natural laws that are included as well,
so no conditions on faith are required, but the common driving force that corrects any faults
is the FORGIVENESS factor where people choose to forgive in order to facilitate truth and justice

NOTE: One of my longterm friends and mentors was a well known gay atheist activist in criminal justice reform who taught the SAME THINGS in Christianity about free grace
and forgiveness but didn't rely on using Jesus God or religion. Just taught by natural
laws and it helped as many people forgive and break free from patterns of abuse and addiction and focus on positive purpose and steps in life that help and serve humanity which was
his last words on what he wanted -- was for people to love one another, and focus on what
we can do to HELP others, which he said was the purpose of life. As an ATHEIST. And this
is the same meaning as Christianity where he judged no one, but offered CHARITY and forgiveness to all people and believed in Restorative Justice and working with everyone on it.

Everyone I know has an innate drive or desire for Truth and Justice and wants peace
from stress, fear or suffering we prefer to avoid.

So that is not required in any religion but is naturally inherent in people to begin with.

Buddhism offers guiding principles (and culturally teaches ways of meditating)
to focus on wisdom/understanding and cultivating natural compassion not indoctrination which it advises AGAINST
By DETACHING from material conditions (including emotional or religious)
then by DEFAULT we go back to the NATURAL wisdom and compassion that is WITHIN our human nature by design.

So anyone of any background, belief faith or none, can apply the teachings in Buddhism
to be more at peace and more effective in whatever their path in life is, naturally.

With Christianity, I've had atheist friends benefit from the healing prayer based on FORGIVENESS
that is a NATURAL process universal to all people, especially where we are recovering
from past injustice, wrongs, or other negative conflicts that BIAS our thinking.

By FORGIVING these conflicts we remove those BIASES and become more OBJECTIVE.

ANYONE can benefit from forgiveness and Christian prayer to heal from past abuses and wrongs
in order for the mind and relations to be more at peace.

Buddhism may focus more on the INDIVIDUAL mind and addressing our inner biases, reasoning/conditions, and choices/perceptions affected. while Christianity focuses on improving RELATIONS with other neighbors, so this can be practiced universally
regardless if you are theist or nontheist, Muslim or Buddhist, Atheist or Agnostic, Christian or nonchristian, etc.

the only thing Christian prayer clashes with where I would agree with healers NOT to mix these traditions:
the occult dark negative forces that seek REVENGE and control by attacking and dominating others
is DANGEROUS to mix with Christian healing prayer and can cause WORSE disruption, damage or even death.
People playing with occult dark forces have reported random incidents of drug overdoses, suicides, and other
mental illness catastrophes which spiritual healing could have treated and cured instead. These are opposites
and all the healing practitioners I know of WARN not to play with or mix these energies together or it clashes.

But if you stick to the natural laws that are positive and not negative, these are compatible with Christianity.

In general alang1216 I have found these three "languages for the laws"
to be most compatible and useful in communicating with the majority of people
1. Buddhism which I find is the best way to understand "God" by completely LETTING GO
of all preconceived notions of what God is or is not, what is right or wrong about God and religion etc.
2. Constitutionalism which I find is the best way to teach the true responsibility of Christ Jesus/Restorative Justice
and "Equal Justice Under Law" and equal inclusion and protection of all people by
redressing grievances and resolving conflicts so everyone is equally represented democratically
3. Christianity in particular Christian spiritual healing which I find is the best
way to teach and understand the process of FORGIVENESS in healing mind body and relations with others

I believe you can still be Atheist, Muslim, any religious or political belief or background you identify with
and still practice the same Meditation and MINDFULNESS taught in Buddhism that is universal,
the same Democratic principles of DUE PROCESS and REDRESSING GRIEVANCES by democratic inclusion
taught in Constitutionalism, and still practice forgiveness and correction for healing as in Christianity.

None of these practices require anyone to change their beliefs
except with agreeing to receive help with FORGIVENESS and
possibly renouncing contact with occult dark forces that are dangerous.
Even that can be proven by science some day so more people will
understand both positive healing energy and process and why
we should avoid dark negative energy that is like radioactive and just
too dangerous to make direct contact with but requires protection.

Your posts are way too long and convoluted, that's why no one responds to them. They don't read them.

 

[emilynghiem]

Your posts are way too long and convoluted, that's why no one responds to them. They don't read them.

Sorry Taz that post was for alang1216 not to you.
After he replies that usually narrows it down more.

As for you, what aspect are you interested in addressing?

pinqy and also rightwinger asked for proof of this creator/God
I answered we could "demonstrate" how God's UNIVERSAL laws work "spiritually/collectively"
by showing through statistics the CORRELATION between
* forgiveness and healing (of mind, body and relations between people or groups)
* unforgiveness and failure to heal, recovery or reconcile between opposing groups

alang1216 brought up the connection between
seeing individual or local changes and "having faith" this connects to "collective or global change"

So I also propose to add that as a MEASURABLE condition.

Could we prove that the more forgiving people are, the more
they report having faith that individual changes connect with collective/global change in society.

And if people are NOT forgiving and report rejection or division of opposing groups or beliefs,
this also CORRELATES with not believing in a connection between local and global
or individual and collective change.

So as people see more proof that healing works, and report forgiving more conflicts
this would correlate with having more faith that this healing process can be
applied to affect global society, and not take so long by this individual process.

 

[alang1216]

Yet every religion claims they are the one true religion and they know this because God said so. They have much in common but they also have many differences. If we should ignore parts of a religion, why not all of it? What's God's plan here?

^ Dear alang1216 ^
This isn't true. Teachings like Buddhism, Bahai and Unitarian Universalism
teach about inclusion of people of all beliefs.

I have found both Buddhism and Christianity can be practiced with any other faith
including Atheism because
* Buddhism is based on Wisdom and Compassion as its two founding principles
that are universal and don't dictate or regulate conditions on anyone's beliefs or faith.
* Christianity is practiced by NONTHEISTS under natural laws that are included as well,
so no conditions on faith are required, but the common driving force that corrects any faults
is the FORGIVENESS factor where people choose to forgive in order to facilitate truth and justice

NOTE: One of my longterm friends and mentors was a well known gay atheist activist in criminal justice reform who taught the SAME THINGS in Christianity about free grace
and forgiveness but didn't rely on using Jesus God or religion. Just taught by natural
laws and it helped as many people forgive and break free from patterns of abuse and addiction and focus on positive purpose and steps in life that help and serve humanity which was
his last words on what he wanted -- was for people to love one another, and focus on what
we can do to HELP others, which he said was the purpose of life. As an ATHEIST. And this
is the same meaning as Christianity where he judged no one, but offered CHARITY and forgiveness to all people and believed in Restorative Justice and working with everyone on it.

Everyone I know has an innate drive or desire for Truth and Justice and wants peace
from stress, fear or suffering we prefer to avoid.

So that is not required in any religion but is naturally inherent in people to begin with.

Buddhism offers guiding principles (and culturally teaches ways of meditating)
to focus on wisdom/understanding and cultivating natural compassion not indoctrination which it advises AGAINST
By DETACHING from material conditions (including emotional or religious)
then by DEFAULT we go back to the NATURAL wisdom and compassion that is WITHIN our human nature by design.

So anyone of any background, belief faith or none, can apply the teachings in Buddhism
to be more at peace and more effective in whatever their path in life is, naturally.

With Christianity, I've had atheist friends benefit from the healing prayer based on FORGIVENESS
that is a NATURAL process universal to all people, especially where we are recovering
from past injustice, wrongs, or other negative conflicts that BIAS our thinking.

By FORGIVING these conflicts we remove those BIASES and become more OBJECTIVE.

ANYONE can benefit from forgiveness and Christian prayer to heal from past abuses and wrongs
in order for the mind and relations to be more at peace.

Buddhism may focus more on the INDIVIDUAL mind and addressing our inner biases, reasoning/conditions, and choices/perceptions affected. while Christianity focuses on improving RELATIONS with other neighbors, so this can be practiced universally
regardless if you are theist or nontheist, Muslim or Buddhist, Atheist or Agnostic, Christian or nonchristian, etc.

the only thing Christian prayer clashes with where I would agree with healers NOT to mix these traditions:
the occult dark negative forces that seek REVENGE and control by attacking and dominating others
is DANGEROUS to mix with Christian healing prayer and can cause WORSE disruption, damage or even death.
People playing with occult dark forces have reported random incidents of drug overdoses, suicides, and other
mental illness catastrophes which spiritual healing could have treated and cured instead. These are opposites
and all the healing practitioners I know of WARN not to play with or mix these energies together or it clashes.

But if you stick to the natural laws that are positive and not negative, these are compatible with Christianity.

In general alang1216 I have found these three "languages for the laws"
to be most compatible and useful in communicating with the majority of people
1. Buddhism which I find is the best way to understand "God" by completely LETTING GO
of all preconceived notions of what God is or is not, what is right or wrong about God and religion etc.
2. Constitutionalism which I find is the best way to teach the true responsibility of Christ Jesus/Restorative Justice
and "Equal Justice Under Law" and equal inclusion and protection of all people by
redressing grievances and resolving conflicts so everyone is equally represented democratically
3. Christianity in particular Christian spiritual healing which I find is the best
way to teach and understand the process of FORGIVENESS in healing mind body and relations with others

I believe you can still be Atheist, Muslim, any religious or political belief or background you identify with
and still practice the same Meditation and MINDFULNESS taught in Buddhism that is universal,
the same Democratic principles of DUE PROCESS and REDRESSING GRIEVANCES by democratic inclusion
taught in Constitutionalism, and still practice forgiveness and correction for healing as in Christianity.

None of these practices require anyone to change their beliefs
except with agreeing to receive help with FORGIVENESS and
possibly renouncing contact with occult dark forces that are dangerous.
Even that can be proven by science some day so more people will
understand both positive healing energy and process and why
we should avoid dark negative energy that is like radioactive and just
too dangerous to make direct contact with but requires protection.

What little I know of Buddhism makes it seem to be more of a philosophy than a religion so no conflicts there. Christianity has a jealous God. You can't worship any other God and be a Christian.