The true living God

[emilynghiem]

Such as?

If there was only one God, why did he allow so many contradictory religions? (Hey I was only 12.)

Dear alang1216
By definition there is only one "GOD" if God means the supreme Almighty/Absolute.
What is diverse are the systems of laws and religions which are like LANGUAGES for the laws.
(so the ABSOLUTE laws that are self-existent are the SAME/UNIVERSAL for all humanity but the EXPRESSIONS of these laws are "RELATIVE" and differ by Culture, Tribe, and Nation for those audiences that develops their own to share equal ownership of the same body of laws)

The reason there are so many is to ORGANIZE humanity by TRIBES.
This is like having 50 states in one UNION, so each State can govern its own people with LOCAL SOVEREIGNTY.

All 50 states are still under one NATIONAL law and govt.
But that's TOO MANY people to govern effectively under one centralized system.

So given the complex needs, relations and institutions necessary for people socially,
we diversify and LOCALIZE so people can govern themselves DEMOCRATICALLY to REPRESENT themselves EQUALLY.

If all the birds had to live in a tree with just
ONE HUGE TRUNK, there would be no place for all the birds to build their own nests.

So the TRUNK divides into BRANCHES and the Branches subdivide
to hold more leaves and hold more nests for all the birds.

This is like the FAMILY of HUMANITY that will have different tribes
so people can organize under the group and leadership that represents THEM.

Not really buying this either. Doesn't Jesus claim that the way to the father is through him? If that is true, what of people of other religions, are they out of luck or was John misquoting Jesus? IOW, does everyone, regardless of their religion have an equal shot at heaven? If they do, what is the purpose of religions, if not, the majority of people are doomed.

Yes alang1216
What this means is the way of RESTORATIVE JUSTICE (which Christ Jesus represents)
is what saves Humanity from war, greed, suffering, ills abuse and other destruction we perpetuate ourselves.

Instead of RETRIBUTIVE JUSTICE (which is ANTICHRIST)

Compare in general the
* OT which is full of war and genocide (antichrist,
judgement and punishment, living by the letter of the
law corrupted by greed and RULE BY "Retributive Justice")
* NT which is about renewal, restoration living by LOVE of
Truth, Justice and Peace to RESTORE human relations and society

You can SEE when people take one side of JUSTICE over another.
That is WHY "Jesus" is warned as bringing a TWO EDGED SWORD
that "divides people against each other" (this division shows when
you compare people taking the Restorative approach to Justice
being opposed by people taking the Retributive approach instead)

You have your choice of
* Retributive Justice where you get the judgment you give
* Restorative Justice where you forgive others for you to be forgiven

So THIS explains why some people teach
* God and Jesus as JUDGING and CONDEMNING by Authority of law
* others teach God as LOVE and Jesus as granting Justice with MERCY and CHARITY

alang1216 does this make sense that we have people
and groups taking BOTH these approaches to "Justice"

And WHICH do you believe makes more sense if Jesus means
SALVATION and bringing true Justice and Peace to SAVE HUMANITY.
Which do you find brings REDEMPTION HEALING and RESTORATION
* Look up Restorative Justice to see the results it has had on people
* For Retributive Justice look at wars, bullying in the media and politics,
backbiting and all manner of negative judgement blame and punishment

What makes more sense that Jesus would represent?
Restorative Justice? that brings renewal of relations and healing to humanity?
or
Retributive Justice that brings destruction and more war?

If you can understand why Christ Jesus would mean RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
then you can see what it means for all humanity needing to take
THIS path to restore justice and peace in order to establish
"peace on earth" or the "Kingdom of God".

Does this make more sense?

You make perfect sense. Unfortunately I see very little evidence that the followers of Jesus have made this world a better place because of what Jesus said and did.

Dear alang1216 Unfortunately the louder mouths that preach judgment and condemnation
get more coverage in the media that leads if it bleeds. More publicity and attention goes to
Terrorists dominating the news than the quiet humble peacemakers, Jews Christians and Muslims
alike, who carry the burdens of keeping their communities going despite these warmongers that get all the attention.

The REAL peacemakers who can work 30-40 years nonstop "behind the scenes" aren't the ones we see getting credit in the media. Does that mean these efforts and effective outreach don't count or don't exist?

That may be the way of the media to be biased to sell bad news.
However, if you don't depend on that, but research the efforts of faith based groups yourself,
you will see a WHOLE DIFFERENT WORLD of what is really going on the media doesn't cover.

I can give you a few examples off the top that show me the stronger power of the real message of FORGIVENESS
and how people have been using it to inspire miraculous recovery healing and change:
www.rachelschallenge.org
www.paceuniversal.com
www.christianhealingmin.org
https://avpusa.org/
www.centerhealingracism.org

If you look up the stories on Heroes of Forgiveness and Restorative Justice,
people have literally transformed from criminally abusive or deadly situations
to healing relations and inspiring whole communities to change course.

If you wonder why so many Christians appear "angry" that this isn't recognized
and Christianity is being portrayed as all the negative hypocrisy and greed type religion,
if you KNEW that Christian spiritual healing would stop mentally ill people from shooting up
schools by getting help in time, but that senseless murders still happen because this
KNOWLEDGE of curing mental illness is being CENSORED by the media rejecting anything Christian,
wouldn't YOU be heartbroken and either outraged or beyond grief? That lives are being lost
every day that COULD BE SAVED if people KNEW the medical impact of Christian healing to cure sickness?

Consider the cases where Christian spiritual healing saved people from addiction,
and turned hardened Gang members into the most caring sincere charity volunteers
reaching out to stop kids from getting in trouble (I knew one man like this in Houston
John Gable who used to run with gangs and act as a pimp until Christianity changed
him into a complete lamb who lived for helping kids to walk away from drugs
http://www.isocracytx.net/hp-org/johngable.html Also David Berkowitz former Son
of Sam was healed and transformed similarly David Berkowitz's Testimony)

Groups like Justice Fellowship, Alternatives to Violence Project, etc. have been
transforming lives we don't see in the prison system that is segregated from society.
All we see in the news is the violent crime that happens if we people DON'T get this outreach and help in time.

What we DON'T see are all the massive changes that people HAVE gone through
to heal and overcome from pure evil and horrible abuse and destruction.

But once you see how this has worked to change people lives,
then you can understand that by multiplying THAT mass change
by 1,000,000 people x 2000 years of this going on, how it's heading toward global change.

 

[ding]

But when considering the possibility of God you only weigh the bad. That’s a self fulfilling prophecy.

No. When first considering the possibility of God, I used only logic, not emotion, faith, morals, ethics, etc.

Such as?

If there was only one God, why did he allow so many contradictory religions? (Hey I was only 12.)

But you’re not 12 anymore. Do you have better logic now that you can share?

 

[ding]

If there was only one God, why did he allow so many contradictory religions?

Free will.
Same as for greed, jealousy, hate, and evil. God instructs; we obey or not.

Not buying it. How many children, growing up in the mountains of Pakistan today have been exposed to Christianity? How many growing up 1,000 years ago in China? How many growing up 2,000 years ago in the capital city of the Aztecs?

What does that have to do with anything?

Have you ever considered the possibility that you are closed minded?

 

[ding]

Such as?

If there was only one God, why did he allow so many contradictory religions? (Hey I was only 12.)

Dear alang1216
By definition there is only one "GOD" if God means the supreme Almighty/Absolute.
What is diverse are the systems of laws and religions which are like LANGUAGES for the laws.
(so the ABSOLUTE laws that are self-existent are the SAME/UNIVERSAL for all humanity but the EXPRESSIONS of these laws are "RELATIVE" and differ by Culture, Tribe, and Nation for those audiences that develops their own to share equal ownership of the same body of laws)

The reason there are so many is to ORGANIZE humanity by TRIBES.
This is like having 50 states in one UNION, so each State can govern its own people with LOCAL SOVEREIGNTY.

All 50 states are still under one NATIONAL law and govt.
But that's TOO MANY people to govern effectively under one centralized system.

So given the complex needs, relations and institutions necessary for people socially,
we diversify and LOCALIZE so people can govern themselves DEMOCRATICALLY to REPRESENT themselves EQUALLY.

If all the birds had to live in a tree with just
ONE HUGE TRUNK, there would be no place for all the birds to build their own nests.

So the TRUNK divides into BRANCHES and the Branches subdivide
to hold more leaves and hold more nests for all the birds.

This is like the FAMILY of HUMANITY that will have different tribes
so people can organize under the group and leadership that represents THEM.

Not really buying this either. Doesn't Jesus claim that the way to the father is through him? If that is true, what of people of other religions, are they out of luck or was John misquoting Jesus? IOW, does everyone, regardless of their religion have an equal shot at heaven? If they do, what is the purpose of religions, if not, the majority of people are doomed.

Yes alang1216
What this means is the way of RESTORATIVE JUSTICE (which Christ Jesus represents)
is what saves Humanity from war, greed, suffering, ills abuse and other destruction we perpetuate ourselves.

Instead of RETRIBUTIVE JUSTICE (which is ANTICHRIST)

Compare in general the
* OT which is full of war and genocide (antichrist,
judgement and punishment, living by the letter of the
law corrupted by greed and RULE BY "Retributive Justice")
* NT which is about renewal, restoration living by LOVE of
Truth, Justice and Peace to RESTORE human relations and society

You can SEE when people take one side of JUSTICE over another.
That is WHY "Jesus" is warned as bringing a TWO EDGED SWORD
that "divides people against each other" (this division shows when
you compare people taking the Restorative approach to Justice
being opposed by people taking the Retributive approach instead)

You have your choice of
* Retributive Justice where you get the judgment you give
* Restorative Justice where you forgive others for you to be forgiven

So THIS explains why some people teach
* God and Jesus as JUDGING and CONDEMNING by Authority of law
* others teach God as LOVE and Jesus as granting Justice with MERCY and CHARITY

alang1216 does this make sense that we have people
and groups taking BOTH these approaches to "Justice"

And WHICH do you believe makes more sense if Jesus means
SALVATION and bringing true Justice and Peace to SAVE HUMANITY.
Which do you find brings REDEMPTION HEALING and RESTORATION
* Look up Restorative Justice to see the results it has had on people
* For Retributive Justice look at wars, bullying in the media and politics,
backbiting and all manner of negative judgement blame and punishment

What makes more sense that Jesus would represent?
Restorative Justice? that brings renewal of relations and healing to humanity?
or
Retributive Justice that brings destruction and more war?

If you can understand why Christ Jesus would mean RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
then you can see what it means for all humanity needing to take
THIS path to restore justice and peace in order to establish
"peace on earth" or the "Kingdom of God".

Does this make more sense?

You make perfect sense. Unfortunately I see very little evidence that the followers of Jesus have made this world a better place because of what Jesus said and did.

You mean besides the vast charities that were created?

 

[emilynghiem]

But you’re not 12 anymore. Do you have better logic now that you can share?

Careful now ding
We are to become like little children to enter the Kingdom of God.
Who says the mind of a child isn't more receptive to pure wisdom
than the jaded minds of adults that prefer to defend old routines?

 

[emilynghiem]

If there was only one God, why did he allow so many contradictory religions? (Hey I was only 12.)

Dear alang1216
By definition there is only one "GOD" if God means the supreme Almighty/Absolute.
What is diverse are the systems of laws and religions which are like LANGUAGES for the laws.
(so the ABSOLUTE laws that are self-existent are the SAME/UNIVERSAL for all humanity but the EXPRESSIONS of these laws are "RELATIVE" and differ by Culture, Tribe, and Nation for those audiences that develops their own to share equal ownership of the same body of laws)

The reason there are so many is to ORGANIZE humanity by TRIBES.
This is like having 50 states in one UNION, so each State can govern its own people with LOCAL SOVEREIGNTY.

All 50 states are still under one NATIONAL law and govt.
But that's TOO MANY people to govern effectively under one centralized system.

So given the complex needs, relations and institutions necessary for people socially,
we diversify and LOCALIZE so people can govern themselves DEMOCRATICALLY to REPRESENT themselves EQUALLY.

If all the birds had to live in a tree with just
ONE HUGE TRUNK, there would be no place for all the birds to build their own nests.

So the TRUNK divides into BRANCHES and the Branches subdivide
to hold more leaves and hold more nests for all the birds.

This is like the FAMILY of HUMANITY that will have different tribes
so people can organize under the group and leadership that represents THEM.

Not really buying this either. Doesn't Jesus claim that the way to the father is through him? If that is true, what of people of other religions, are they out of luck or was John misquoting Jesus? IOW, does everyone, regardless of their religion have an equal shot at heaven? If they do, what is the purpose of religions, if not, the majority of people are doomed.

Yes alang1216
What this means is the way of RESTORATIVE JUSTICE (which Christ Jesus represents)
is what saves Humanity from war, greed, suffering, ills abuse and other destruction we perpetuate ourselves.

Instead of RETRIBUTIVE JUSTICE (which is ANTICHRIST)

Compare in general the
* OT which is full of war and genocide (antichrist,
judgement and punishment, living by the letter of the
law corrupted by greed and RULE BY "Retributive Justice")
* NT which is about renewal, restoration living by LOVE of
Truth, Justice and Peace to RESTORE human relations and society

You can SEE when people take one side of JUSTICE over another.
That is WHY "Jesus" is warned as bringing a TWO EDGED SWORD
that "divides people against each other" (this division shows when
you compare people taking the Restorative approach to Justice
being opposed by people taking the Retributive approach instead)

You have your choice of
* Retributive Justice where you get the judgment you give
* Restorative Justice where you forgive others for you to be forgiven

So THIS explains why some people teach
* God and Jesus as JUDGING and CONDEMNING by Authority of law
* others teach God as LOVE and Jesus as granting Justice with MERCY and CHARITY

alang1216 does this make sense that we have people
and groups taking BOTH these approaches to "Justice"

And WHICH do you believe makes more sense if Jesus means
SALVATION and bringing true Justice and Peace to SAVE HUMANITY.
Which do you find brings REDEMPTION HEALING and RESTORATION
* Look up Restorative Justice to see the results it has had on people
* For Retributive Justice look at wars, bullying in the media and politics,
backbiting and all manner of negative judgement blame and punishment

What makes more sense that Jesus would represent?
Restorative Justice? that brings renewal of relations and healing to humanity?
or
Retributive Justice that brings destruction and more war?

If you can understand why Christ Jesus would mean RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
then you can see what it means for all humanity needing to take
THIS path to restore justice and peace in order to establish
"peace on earth" or the "Kingdom of God".

Does this make more sense?

You make perfect sense. Unfortunately I see very little evidence that the followers of Jesus have made this world a better place because of what Jesus said and did.

You mean besides the vast charities that were created?

Dear ding
Let's just find ONE example that might represent to alang1216
what the transformation process is in Christ Jesus or Restorative Justice
that is so WORLD CHANGING it will make all humanity come to peace globally.

Just one.

I'll offer one, and if alang1216 says no that doesn't show me how this is going to change the world,
then you ding can offer ONE example.

It only takes ONE but it has to be something that makes sense to that person.

I'll try Rachel's Challenge to show how the ripple effect works.
It only takes ONE person, like Rachel, to change her family and then the school communities
they went to, to start a movement around the nation. You can still see the deep IMPACT of
this program, but it doesn't show up in the media.

I'll post some clips that show her mother and brother speaking.
Her dad spoke in Florida after the Parkland shooting but the
media focused on David Hogg and not on people actually
preventing and solving root causes of school shootings as this family works on.

Please watch the VIDEO linked below where you can hear from Craig and Rachel's Mother.
I think she captures the heart of what living as a Christian and sharing Jesus/Restorative Justice is about:
=============================================================================
One of the deepest moving testimonies about personal process and struggle with forgiveness
I can share is CRAIG SCOTT, brother of Rachel Scott shot and killed at Columbine.
What stands out about his outreach, is that he struggles like the average person, so it's easier to relate to.
He's clearly not perfect, and "not a saint like his sister" where people don't think they can be like her!

Craig admits suffering from survivor guilt, snapping and almost attacking his brother after they argued over
changing the TV channel when Craig couldn't stand the sight of television violence anymore.
The incident woke him up, when he realized he was becoming the very thing he hated.

He shares that breaking point (and his commitment to change which he admits is a DAILY STRUGGLE)
when he speaks with his father and family at schools around the country, changing bullying cultures by inviting students to take on "Rachel's Challenge" to answer hatred with kindness, and build a culture of empowerment that has transformed entire communities.

Craig also spoke before Congress on changing the media culture to promote positive stories of CHARACTER
instead of exploiting negative role models and violence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVfBDeJeCV4


Columbine Survivor Craig Scott Opens Up About Finding Forgiveness | TODAY
Ahead of the 20th anniversary of the 1999 shooting at Columbine High School, one survivor, Craig Scott, and his mother, Beth, open up to Hoda Kotb about losing Craig’s sister, Rachel, and how they’re finding forgiveness. » Subscribe to TODAY: TODAY » Watch the latest from TODAY: The Latest On TODAY! - YouTube ...
www.youtube.com

https://www.seacoastonline.com/article/20080111/news/801110435?template=ampart
Craig said, after the shootings, the hatred he felt for the two killers was tearing him apart.

"It made me into a person I didn't want to be," he said. "It made me more like them."

He fantasized about revenge and felt he "had a right to hate them."

One day, he said, he snapped. He attacked his little brother, putting a knife to his throat and asking him, "Do you want to know what it's like to almost lose your life?"

The moment made him realize the consequences of harboring that anger. Now, he said, if the two boys walked into the room, he wouldn't want revenge; he would want to reach out to them. This is the legacy left to him by his sister.

Craig asked his audience to take the challenge and make a commitment to kill hatred with kindness. He asked them to tell five people that they love how they truly feel, because you never know when it will be your last day with them.

The last words Craig said to his sister were in anger. He asked others not to make the same mistake. At this, mothers hugged their children, husbands took their wives' hands and men wiped their eyes.

A banner outside the high school auditorium with the words "I accept Rachel's Challenge" had been signed by hundreds of students earlier that day.
Students had written messages such as "This changed my life," "Love each other," and "Thank you for opening my eyes."

============
Dear alang1216 if you watch the video and understand the impact this family
has on just individual students and schools, around the country,
then COMPARE that to all the NEGATIVE MEDIA ATTENTION and credit given to Parkland and David Hogg, can you understand the DIFFERENCE and the GREATER IMPACT
of the TRUE message and INFLUENCE on people of the FORGIVENESS approach
to Justice and Peace, rather than the "politicized" propaganda that shows in the
public media but is NOT THE REAL MESSAGE OR SOLUTION.

If you can understand the difference here, that's the difference between
the REAL meaning and message of Justice that JESUS represents,
vs. the false teaching for political control and popularity we see in public.

 

[ding]

Dear alang1216
By definition there is only one "GOD" if God means the supreme Almighty/Absolute.
What is diverse are the systems of laws and religions which are like LANGUAGES for the laws.
(so the ABSOLUTE laws that are self-existent are the SAME/UNIVERSAL for all humanity but the EXPRESSIONS of these laws are "RELATIVE" and differ by Culture, Tribe, and Nation for those audiences that develops their own to share equal ownership of the same body of laws)

The reason there are so many is to ORGANIZE humanity by TRIBES.
This is like having 50 states in one UNION, so each State can govern its own people with LOCAL SOVEREIGNTY.

All 50 states are still under one NATIONAL law and govt.
But that's TOO MANY people to govern effectively under one centralized system.

So given the complex needs, relations and institutions necessary for people socially,
we diversify and LOCALIZE so people can govern themselves DEMOCRATICALLY to REPRESENT themselves EQUALLY.

If all the birds had to live in a tree with just
ONE HUGE TRUNK, there would be no place for all the birds to build their own nests.

So the TRUNK divides into BRANCHES and the Branches subdivide
to hold more leaves and hold more nests for all the birds.

This is like the FAMILY of HUMANITY that will have different tribes
so people can organize under the group and leadership that represents THEM.

Not really buying this either. Doesn't Jesus claim that the way to the father is through him? If that is true, what of people of other religions, are they out of luck or was John misquoting Jesus? IOW, does everyone, regardless of their religion have an equal shot at heaven? If they do, what is the purpose of religions, if not, the majority of people are doomed.

Yes alang1216
What this means is the way of RESTORATIVE JUSTICE (which Christ Jesus represents)
is what saves Humanity from war, greed, suffering, ills abuse and other destruction we perpetuate ourselves.

Instead of RETRIBUTIVE JUSTICE (which is ANTICHRIST)

Compare in general the
* OT which is full of war and genocide (antichrist,
judgement and punishment, living by the letter of the
law corrupted by greed and RULE BY "Retributive Justice")
* NT which is about renewal, restoration living by LOVE of
Truth, Justice and Peace to RESTORE human relations and society

You can SEE when people take one side of JUSTICE over another.
That is WHY "Jesus" is warned as bringing a TWO EDGED SWORD
that "divides people against each other" (this division shows when
you compare people taking the Restorative approach to Justice
being opposed by people taking the Retributive approach instead)

You have your choice of
* Retributive Justice where you get the judgment you give
* Restorative Justice where you forgive others for you to be forgiven

So THIS explains why some people teach
* God and Jesus as JUDGING and CONDEMNING by Authority of law
* others teach God as LOVE and Jesus as granting Justice with MERCY and CHARITY

alang1216 does this make sense that we have people
and groups taking BOTH these approaches to "Justice"

And WHICH do you believe makes more sense if Jesus means
SALVATION and bringing true Justice and Peace to SAVE HUMANITY.
Which do you find brings REDEMPTION HEALING and RESTORATION
* Look up Restorative Justice to see the results it has had on people
* For Retributive Justice look at wars, bullying in the media and politics,
backbiting and all manner of negative judgement blame and punishment

What makes more sense that Jesus would represent?
Restorative Justice? that brings renewal of relations and healing to humanity?
or
Retributive Justice that brings destruction and more war?

If you can understand why Christ Jesus would mean RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
then you can see what it means for all humanity needing to take
THIS path to restore justice and peace in order to establish
"peace on earth" or the "Kingdom of God".

Does this make more sense?

You make perfect sense. Unfortunately I see very little evidence that the followers of Jesus have made this world a better place because of what Jesus said and did.

You mean besides the vast charities that were created?

Dear ding
Let's just find ONE example that might represent to alang1216
what the transformation process is in Christ Jesus or Restorative Justice
that is so WORLD CHANGING it will make all humanity come to peace globally.

Just one.

I'll offer one, and if alang1216 says no that doesn't show me how this is going to change the world,
then you ding can offer ONE example.

It only takes ONE but it has to be something that makes sense to that person.

I'll try Rachel's Challenge to show how the ripple effect works.
It only takes ONE person, like Rachel, to change her family and then the school communities
they went to, to start a movement around the nation. You can still see the deep IMPACT of
this program, but it doesn't show up in the media.

I'll post some clips that show her mother and brother speaking.
Her dad spoke in Florida after the Parkland shooting but the
media focused on David Hogg and not on people actually
preventing and solving root causes of school shootings as this family works on.

Please watch the VIDEO linked below where you can hear from Craig and Rachel's Mother.
I think she captures the heart of what living as a Christian and sharing Jesus/Restorative Justice is about:
=============================================================================
One of the deepest moving testimonies about personal process and struggle with forgiveness
I can share is CRAIG SCOTT, brother of Rachel Scott shot and killed at Columbine.
What stands out about his outreach, is that he struggles like the average person, so it's easier to relate to.
He's clearly not perfect, and "not a saint like his sister" where people don't think they can be like her!

Craig admits suffering from survivor guilt, snapping and almost attacking his brother after they argued over
changing the TV channel when Craig couldn't stand the sight of television violence anymore.
The incident woke him up, when he realized he was becoming the very thing he hated.

He shares that breaking point (and his commitment to change which he admits is a DAILY STRUGGLE)
when he speaks with his father and family at schools around the country, changing bullying cultures by inviting students to take on "Rachel's Challenge" to answer hatred with kindness, and build a culture of empowerment that has transformed entire communities.

Craig also spoke before Congress on changing the media culture to promote positive stories of CHARACTER
instead of exploiting negative role models and violence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVfBDeJeCV4


Columbine Survivor Craig Scott Opens Up About Finding Forgiveness | TODAY
Ahead of the 20th anniversary of the 1999 shooting at Columbine High School, one survivor, Craig Scott, and his mother, Beth, open up to Hoda Kotb about losing Craig’s sister, Rachel, and how they’re finding forgiveness. » Subscribe to TODAY: TODAY » Watch the latest from TODAY: The Latest On TODAY! - YouTube ...
www.youtube.com

https://www.seacoastonline.com/article/20080111/news/801110435?template=ampart
Craig said, after the shootings, the hatred he felt for the two killers was tearing him apart.

"It made me into a person I didn't want to be," he said. "It made me more like them."

He fantasized about revenge and felt he "had a right to hate them."

One day, he said, he snapped. He attacked his little brother, putting a knife to his throat and asking him, "Do you want to know what it's like to almost lose your life?"

The moment made him realize the consequences of harboring that anger. Now, he said, if the two boys walked into the room, he wouldn't want revenge; he would want to reach out to them. This is the legacy left to him by his sister.

Craig asked his audience to take the challenge and make a commitment to kill hatred with kindness. He asked them to tell five people that they love how they truly feel, because you never know when it will be your last day with them.

The last words Craig said to his sister were in anger. He asked others not to make the same mistake. At this, mothers hugged their children, husbands took their wives' hands and men wiped their eyes.

A banner outside the high school auditorium with the words "I accept Rachel's Challenge" had been signed by hundreds of students earlier that day.
Students had written messages such as "This changed my life," "Love each other," and "Thank you for opening my eyes."

============
Dear alang1216 if you watch the video and understand the impact this family
has on just individual students and schools, around the country,
then COMPARE that to all the NEGATIVE MEDIA ATTENTION and credit given to Parkland and David Hogg, can you understand the DIFFERENCE and the GREATER IMPACT
of the TRUE message and INFLUENCE on people of the FORGIVENESS approach
to Justice and Peace, rather than the "politicized" propaganda that shows in the
public media but is NOT THE REAL MESSAGE OR SOLUTION.

If you can understand the difference here, that's the difference between
the REAL meaning and message of Justice that JESUS represents,
vs. the false teaching for political control and popularity we see in public.

I believe it is a waste of time. He believes he is perfectly happy with the way things are now.

 

[emilynghiem]

I believe it is a waste of time. He believes he is perfectly happy with the way things are now.

^ ppbbfftt ding
I don't know ANYONE happy with the way things are now.
Are you kidding me, really?
Sure, we can be at peace and be grateful we have it as good as we do.

But anyone on here even ASKING and POSTING to reach out to others
is clearly reaching for BETTER.

If people were so content with the status quo
we wouldn't be on here. Why bother.
Why ask or post or differ with someone if we aren't trying
to achieve something or provoke thought or change?

Of course all of us are constantly seeking better.
This is an ongoing process, and we are right in the midst of it.

We don't all see the same things as important as others do.
But that means we are putting our focus on something else that
we do care about and want to see more of.

 

[alang1216]

If there was only one God, why did he allow so many contradictory religions? (Hey I was only 12.)

But you’re not 12 anymore. Do you have better logic now that you can share?

There is no better logic than that. Everything I've learned since then only confirms it.

I have since studied religion and formed my own thoughts on their history and evolution. All that always leads me back to believe I don't know anything about any god and nobody else does either.

 

[alang1216]

If there was only one God, why did he allow so many contradictory religions?

Free will.
Same as for greed, jealousy, hate, and evil. God instructs; we obey or not.

Not buying it. How many children, growing up in the mountains of Pakistan today have been exposed to Christianity? How many growing up 1,000 years ago in China? How many growing up 2,000 years ago in the capital city of the Aztecs?

What does that have to do with anything?

Have you ever considered the possibility that you are closed minded?

Free will requires knowledge about what your choices are. Tough to be a Christian is you've never heard of Jesus.

You mean more closed minded than you or anybody else who claims knowledge from faith? I have done my homework, you may not agree with what I've found but I did make my own search for truth and as an atheist I've evaluated all the religions I've looked at equally. Have you done an honest comparison or does your faith preclude it?

 

[alang1216]

Dear alang1216
By definition there is only one "GOD" if God means the supreme Almighty/Absolute.
What is diverse are the systems of laws and religions which are like LANGUAGES for the laws.
(so the ABSOLUTE laws that are self-existent are the SAME/UNIVERSAL for all humanity but the EXPRESSIONS of these laws are "RELATIVE" and differ by Culture, Tribe, and Nation for those audiences that develops their own to share equal ownership of the same body of laws)

The reason there are so many is to ORGANIZE humanity by TRIBES.
This is like having 50 states in one UNION, so each State can govern its own people with LOCAL SOVEREIGNTY.

All 50 states are still under one NATIONAL law and govt.
But that's TOO MANY people to govern effectively under one centralized system.

So given the complex needs, relations and institutions necessary for people socially,
we diversify and LOCALIZE so people can govern themselves DEMOCRATICALLY to REPRESENT themselves EQUALLY.

If all the birds had to live in a tree with just
ONE HUGE TRUNK, there would be no place for all the birds to build their own nests.

So the TRUNK divides into BRANCHES and the Branches subdivide
to hold more leaves and hold more nests for all the birds.

This is like the FAMILY of HUMANITY that will have different tribes
so people can organize under the group and leadership that represents THEM.

Not really buying this either. Doesn't Jesus claim that the way to the father is through him? If that is true, what of people of other religions, are they out of luck or was John misquoting Jesus? IOW, does everyone, regardless of their religion have an equal shot at heaven? If they do, what is the purpose of religions, if not, the majority of people are doomed.

Yes alang1216
What this means is the way of RESTORATIVE JUSTICE (which Christ Jesus represents)
is what saves Humanity from war, greed, suffering, ills abuse and other destruction we perpetuate ourselves.

Instead of RETRIBUTIVE JUSTICE (which is ANTICHRIST)

Compare in general the
* OT which is full of war and genocide (antichrist,
judgement and punishment, living by the letter of the
law corrupted by greed and RULE BY "Retributive Justice")
* NT which is about renewal, restoration living by LOVE of
Truth, Justice and Peace to RESTORE human relations and society

You can SEE when people take one side of JUSTICE over another.
That is WHY "Jesus" is warned as bringing a TWO EDGED SWORD
that "divides people against each other" (this division shows when
you compare people taking the Restorative approach to Justice
being opposed by people taking the Retributive approach instead)

You have your choice of
* Retributive Justice where you get the judgment you give
* Restorative Justice where you forgive others for you to be forgiven

So THIS explains why some people teach
* God and Jesus as JUDGING and CONDEMNING by Authority of law
* others teach God as LOVE and Jesus as granting Justice with MERCY and CHARITY

alang1216 does this make sense that we have people
and groups taking BOTH these approaches to "Justice"

And WHICH do you believe makes more sense if Jesus means
SALVATION and bringing true Justice and Peace to SAVE HUMANITY.
Which do you find brings REDEMPTION HEALING and RESTORATION
* Look up Restorative Justice to see the results it has had on people
* For Retributive Justice look at wars, bullying in the media and politics,
backbiting and all manner of negative judgement blame and punishment

What makes more sense that Jesus would represent?
Restorative Justice? that brings renewal of relations and healing to humanity?
or
Retributive Justice that brings destruction and more war?

If you can understand why Christ Jesus would mean RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
then you can see what it means for all humanity needing to take
THIS path to restore justice and peace in order to establish
"peace on earth" or the "Kingdom of God".

Does this make more sense?

You make perfect sense. Unfortunately I see very little evidence that the followers of Jesus have made this world a better place because of what Jesus said and did.

You mean besides the vast charities that were created?

Dear ding
Let's just find ONE example that might represent to alang1216
what the transformation process is in Christ Jesus or Restorative Justice
that is so WORLD CHANGING it will make all humanity come to peace globally.

Just one.

I'll offer one, and if alang1216 says no that doesn't show me how this is going to change the world,
then you ding can offer ONE example.

It only takes ONE but it has to be something that makes sense to that person.

I'll try Rachel's Challenge to show how the ripple effect works.
It only takes ONE person, like Rachel, to change her family and then the school communities
they went to, to start a movement around the nation. You can still see the deep IMPACT of
this program, but it doesn't show up in the media.

I'll post some clips that show her mother and brother speaking.
Her dad spoke in Florida after the Parkland shooting but the
media focused on David Hogg and not on people actually
preventing and solving root causes of school shootings as this family works on.

Please watch the VIDEO linked below where you can hear from Craig and Rachel's Mother.
I think she captures the heart of what living as a Christian and sharing Jesus/Restorative Justice is about:
=============================================================================
One of the deepest moving testimonies about personal process and struggle with forgiveness
I can share is CRAIG SCOTT, brother of Rachel Scott shot and killed at Columbine.
What stands out about his outreach, is that he struggles like the average person, so it's easier to relate to.
He's clearly not perfect, and "not a saint like his sister" where people don't think they can be like her!

Craig admits suffering from survivor guilt, snapping and almost attacking his brother after they argued over
changing the TV channel when Craig couldn't stand the sight of television violence anymore.
The incident woke him up, when he realized he was becoming the very thing he hated.

He shares that breaking point (and his commitment to change which he admits is a DAILY STRUGGLE)
when he speaks with his father and family at schools around the country, changing bullying cultures by inviting students to take on "Rachel's Challenge" to answer hatred with kindness, and build a culture of empowerment that has transformed entire communities.

Craig also spoke before Congress on changing the media culture to promote positive stories of CHARACTER
instead of exploiting negative role models and violence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVfBDeJeCV4


Columbine Survivor Craig Scott Opens Up About Finding Forgiveness | TODAY
Ahead of the 20th anniversary of the 1999 shooting at Columbine High School, one survivor, Craig Scott, and his mother, Beth, open up to Hoda Kotb about losing Craig’s sister, Rachel, and how they’re finding forgiveness. » Subscribe to TODAY: TODAY » Watch the latest from TODAY: The Latest On TODAY! - YouTube ...
www.youtube.com

https://www.seacoastonline.com/article/20080111/news/801110435?template=ampart
Craig said, after the shootings, the hatred he felt for the two killers was tearing him apart.

"It made me into a person I didn't want to be," he said. "It made me more like them."

He fantasized about revenge and felt he "had a right to hate them."

One day, he said, he snapped. He attacked his little brother, putting a knife to his throat and asking him, "Do you want to know what it's like to almost lose your life?"

The moment made him realize the consequences of harboring that anger. Now, he said, if the two boys walked into the room, he wouldn't want revenge; he would want to reach out to them. This is the legacy left to him by his sister.

Craig asked his audience to take the challenge and make a commitment to kill hatred with kindness. He asked them to tell five people that they love how they truly feel, because you never know when it will be your last day with them.

The last words Craig said to his sister were in anger. He asked others not to make the same mistake. At this, mothers hugged their children, husbands took their wives' hands and men wiped their eyes.

A banner outside the high school auditorium with the words "I accept Rachel's Challenge" had been signed by hundreds of students earlier that day.
Students had written messages such as "This changed my life," "Love each other," and "Thank you for opening my eyes."

============
Dear alang1216 if you watch the video and understand the impact this family
has on just individual students and schools, around the country,
then COMPARE that to all the NEGATIVE MEDIA ATTENTION and credit given to Parkland and David Hogg, can you understand the DIFFERENCE and the GREATER IMPACT
of the TRUE message and INFLUENCE on people of the FORGIVENESS approach
to Justice and Peace, rather than the "politicized" propaganda that shows in the
public media but is NOT THE REAL MESSAGE OR SOLUTION.

If you can understand the difference here, that's the difference between
the REAL meaning and message of Justice that JESUS represents,
vs. the false teaching for political control and popularity we see in public.

Thanks for this, I know you're earnest and honest and I don't doubt anything you've said, except "the transformation process is in Christ Jesus or Restorative Justice
that is so WORLD CHANGING it will make all humanity come to peace globally". If it hasn't brought peace yet, it's not going to. Keep up your good works but don't get your hopes up.

 

[emilynghiem]

If there was only one God, why did he allow so many contradictory religions? (Hey I was only 12.)

But you’re not 12 anymore. Do you have better logic now that you can share?

There is no better logic than that. Everything I've learned since then only confirms it.

I have since studied religion and formed my own thoughts on their history and evolution. All that always leads me back to believe I don't know anything about any god and nobody else does either.

Dear alang1216
I'd say that if you put everyone's partial knowledge together,
then we can see a glimpse of the COLLECTIVE knowledge, truth and laws of God
by combining all that which we can grasp in limited contexts.

The truth God and universal laws would fulfill ALL the other representations of these.

It's like a system of equations with multiple VARIABLES.
The RIGHT ANSWER will solve ALL the equations and make them work.

So if you look for people who can understand, communicate and agree
on principles talking to ANYONE of ANY Group, that person might be
closer to having the universal answers or approach that works for everyone.

And again, the COMMON FACTOR you will find with those people
and with relations that WORK between people of different groups
is FORGIVENESS and ability to reconcile DESPITE differences and conflicts.

The people with the most OPEN inclusive approaches to working with
others regardless of religious or political differences are able to
communicate universal truths and reach understanding more effectively.

this is independent of religious or political affiliation.

I have seen friends of total ATHEIST liberal backgrounds who
are so forgiving and inclusive they can work with hardcore Christians
who don't even agree with them on a lot of issues, and they can still
collaborate on solutions that don't depend on making one side right or wrong.

If we stick to where we AGREE in truth and what is equally justice for all,
only the right answers will be truly universal and work for everyone of any group.

There are those people in EVERY group who can operate on this level.
They are usually the most humble, forgiving and open/inclusive.

They can be Muslim, Buddhist, Christian, Atheist, I've seen it all just about.
That is why I call this common factor
faith in Restorative Justice or Peace and Justice because it's universal
and is found in Christianity as well as in political, secular or religious approaches.

I can see the day when people come together and finally AGREE
that this approach is the MEANING of Christ Jesus and Equal Justice Under Law
so whether you go by religious/church/Christian ways of teaching it
or you are completely secular and want equal civil rights for all people for world peace,
we finally understand and agree we are all seeking the SAME THING
Universal Truth, Justice and Peace for all people

 

[alang1216]

I believe it is a waste of time. He believes he is perfectly happy with the way things are now.

^ ppbbfftt ding
I don't know ANYONE happy with the way things are now.
Are you kidding me, really?
Sure, we can be at peace and be grateful we have it as good as we do.

But anyone on here even ASKING and POSTING to reach out to others
is clearly reaching for BETTER.

If people were so content with the status quo
we wouldn't be on here. Why bother.
Why ask or post or differ with someone if we aren't trying
to achieve something or provoke thought or change?

Of course all of us are constantly seeking better.
This is an ongoing process, and we are right in the midst of it.

We don't all see the same things as important as others do.
But that means we are putting our focus on something else that
we do care about and want to see more of.

Don't give me too much credit, I'm here for purely selfish reasons. One is entertainment, I just enjoy talking to people I don't normally get to talk to in real life. You'll rarely find me talking to someone I agree with. Second, is to challenge myself and my beliefs. I have a good measure of arrogance and I want to know if my views will stand up to someone with very different opinions. Least important is sharing my values, knowledge, and experience. Minds are hard to change.

 

[ding]

I believe it is a waste of time. He believes he is perfectly happy with the way things are now.

^ ppbbfftt ding
I don't know ANYONE happy with the way things are now.
Are you kidding me, really?
Sure, we can be at peace and be grateful we have it as good as we do.

But anyone on here even ASKING and POSTING to reach out to others
is clearly reaching for BETTER.

If people were so content with the status quo
we wouldn't be on here. Why bother.
Why ask or post or differ with someone if we aren't trying
to achieve something or provoke thought or change?

Of course all of us are constantly seeking better.
This is an ongoing process, and we are right in the midst of it.

We don't all see the same things as important as others do.
But that means we are putting our focus on something else that
we do care about and want to see more of.

He just agreed with me.

 

[ding]

Not really buying this either. Doesn't Jesus claim that the way to the father is through him? If that is true, what of people of other religions, are they out of luck or was John misquoting Jesus? IOW, does everyone, regardless of their religion have an equal shot at heaven? If they do, what is the purpose of religions, if not, the majority of people are doomed.

Yes alang1216
What this means is the way of RESTORATIVE JUSTICE (which Christ Jesus represents)
is what saves Humanity from war, greed, suffering, ills abuse and other destruction we perpetuate ourselves.

Instead of RETRIBUTIVE JUSTICE (which is ANTICHRIST)

Compare in general the
* OT which is full of war and genocide (antichrist,
judgement and punishment, living by the letter of the
law corrupted by greed and RULE BY "Retributive Justice")
* NT which is about renewal, restoration living by LOVE of
Truth, Justice and Peace to RESTORE human relations and society

You can SEE when people take one side of JUSTICE over another.
That is WHY "Jesus" is warned as bringing a TWO EDGED SWORD
that "divides people against each other" (this division shows when
you compare people taking the Restorative approach to Justice
being opposed by people taking the Retributive approach instead)

You have your choice of
* Retributive Justice where you get the judgment you give
* Restorative Justice where you forgive others for you to be forgiven

So THIS explains why some people teach
* God and Jesus as JUDGING and CONDEMNING by Authority of law
* others teach God as LOVE and Jesus as granting Justice with MERCY and CHARITY

alang1216 does this make sense that we have people
and groups taking BOTH these approaches to "Justice"

And WHICH do you believe makes more sense if Jesus means
SALVATION and bringing true Justice and Peace to SAVE HUMANITY.
Which do you find brings REDEMPTION HEALING and RESTORATION
* Look up Restorative Justice to see the results it has had on people
* For Retributive Justice look at wars, bullying in the media and politics,
backbiting and all manner of negative judgement blame and punishment

What makes more sense that Jesus would represent?
Restorative Justice? that brings renewal of relations and healing to humanity?
or
Retributive Justice that brings destruction and more war?

If you can understand why Christ Jesus would mean RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
then you can see what it means for all humanity needing to take
THIS path to restore justice and peace in order to establish
"peace on earth" or the "Kingdom of God".

Does this make more sense?

You make perfect sense. Unfortunately I see very little evidence that the followers of Jesus have made this world a better place because of what Jesus said and did.

You mean besides the vast charities that were created?

Dear ding
Let's just find ONE example that might represent to alang1216
what the transformation process is in Christ Jesus or Restorative Justice
that is so WORLD CHANGING it will make all humanity come to peace globally.

Just one.

I'll offer one, and if alang1216 says no that doesn't show me how this is going to change the world,
then you ding can offer ONE example.

It only takes ONE but it has to be something that makes sense to that person.

I'll try Rachel's Challenge to show how the ripple effect works.
It only takes ONE person, like Rachel, to change her family and then the school communities
they went to, to start a movement around the nation. You can still see the deep IMPACT of
this program, but it doesn't show up in the media.

I'll post some clips that show her mother and brother speaking.
Her dad spoke in Florida after the Parkland shooting but the
media focused on David Hogg and not on people actually
preventing and solving root causes of school shootings as this family works on.

Please watch the VIDEO linked below where you can hear from Craig and Rachel's Mother.
I think she captures the heart of what living as a Christian and sharing Jesus/Restorative Justice is about:
=============================================================================
One of the deepest moving testimonies about personal process and struggle with forgiveness
I can share is CRAIG SCOTT, brother of Rachel Scott shot and killed at Columbine.
What stands out about his outreach, is that he struggles like the average person, so it's easier to relate to.
He's clearly not perfect, and "not a saint like his sister" where people don't think they can be like her!

Craig admits suffering from survivor guilt, snapping and almost attacking his brother after they argued over
changing the TV channel when Craig couldn't stand the sight of television violence anymore.
The incident woke him up, when he realized he was becoming the very thing he hated.

He shares that breaking point (and his commitment to change which he admits is a DAILY STRUGGLE)
when he speaks with his father and family at schools around the country, changing bullying cultures by inviting students to take on "Rachel's Challenge" to answer hatred with kindness, and build a culture of empowerment that has transformed entire communities.

Craig also spoke before Congress on changing the media culture to promote positive stories of CHARACTER
instead of exploiting negative role models and violence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVfBDeJeCV4


Columbine Survivor Craig Scott Opens Up About Finding Forgiveness | TODAY
Ahead of the 20th anniversary of the 1999 shooting at Columbine High School, one survivor, Craig Scott, and his mother, Beth, open up to Hoda Kotb about losing Craig’s sister, Rachel, and how they’re finding forgiveness. » Subscribe to TODAY: TODAY » Watch the latest from TODAY: The Latest On TODAY! - YouTube ...
www.youtube.com

https://www.seacoastonline.com/article/20080111/news/801110435?template=ampart
Craig said, after the shootings, the hatred he felt for the two killers was tearing him apart.

"It made me into a person I didn't want to be," he said. "It made me more like them."

He fantasized about revenge and felt he "had a right to hate them."

One day, he said, he snapped. He attacked his little brother, putting a knife to his throat and asking him, "Do you want to know what it's like to almost lose your life?"

The moment made him realize the consequences of harboring that anger. Now, he said, if the two boys walked into the room, he wouldn't want revenge; he would want to reach out to them. This is the legacy left to him by his sister.

Craig asked his audience to take the challenge and make a commitment to kill hatred with kindness. He asked them to tell five people that they love how they truly feel, because you never know when it will be your last day with them.

The last words Craig said to his sister were in anger. He asked others not to make the same mistake. At this, mothers hugged their children, husbands took their wives' hands and men wiped their eyes.

A banner outside the high school auditorium with the words "I accept Rachel's Challenge" had been signed by hundreds of students earlier that day.
Students had written messages such as "This changed my life," "Love each other," and "Thank you for opening my eyes."

============
Dear alang1216 if you watch the video and understand the impact this family
has on just individual students and schools, around the country,
then COMPARE that to all the NEGATIVE MEDIA ATTENTION and credit given to Parkland and David Hogg, can you understand the DIFFERENCE and the GREATER IMPACT
of the TRUE message and INFLUENCE on people of the FORGIVENESS approach
to Justice and Peace, rather than the "politicized" propaganda that shows in the
public media but is NOT THE REAL MESSAGE OR SOLUTION.

If you can understand the difference here, that's the difference between
the REAL meaning and message of Justice that JESUS represents,
vs. the false teaching for political control and popularity we see in public.

Thanks for this, I know you're earnest and honest and I don't doubt anything you've said, except "the transformation process is in Christ Jesus or Restorative Justice
that is so WORLD CHANGING it will make all humanity come to peace globally". If it hasn't brought peace yet, it's not going to. Keep up your good works but don't get your hopes up.

It isn’t supposed to. It is suffering that effects change. Everything works for good. It’s just that it’s not a straight line or easy to see. And it’s cyclical too. It takes two generations to forget suffering.

The irony is that one of the things that makes me believe in God is the thing that makes you not believe in God.

 

[ding]

I believe it is a waste of time. He believes he is perfectly happy with the way things are now.

^ ppbbfftt ding
I don't know ANYONE happy with the way things are now.
Are you kidding me, really?
Sure, we can be at peace and be grateful we have it as good as we do.

But anyone on here even ASKING and POSTING to reach out to others
is clearly reaching for BETTER.

If people were so content with the status quo
we wouldn't be on here. Why bother.
Why ask or post or differ with someone if we aren't trying
to achieve something or provoke thought or change?

Of course all of us are constantly seeking better.
This is an ongoing process, and we are right in the midst of it.

We don't all see the same things as important as others do.
But that means we are putting our focus on something else that
we do care about and want to see more of.

Don't give me too much credit, I'm here for purely selfish reasons. One is entertainment, I just enjoy talking to people I don't normally get to talk to in real life. You'll rarely find me talking to someone I agree with. Second, is to challenge myself and my beliefs. I have a good measure of arrogance and I want to know if my views will stand up to someone with very different opinions. Least important is sharing my values, knowledge, and experience. Minds are hard to change.

The exalted will be humbled and the humble will be exalted. There’s a reason all Hollywood movies have the same basic storyline.

 

[ding]

But you’re not 12 anymore. Do you have better logic now that you can share?

Careful now ding
We are to become like little children to enter the Kingdom of God.
Who says the mind of a child isn't more receptive to pure wisdom
than the jaded minds of adults that prefer to defend old routines?

The instructions to be like little children means to trust God like a small child would trust a parent. There is so much into that command. I take it to heart. That’s why when I see things that other people believe are bad I trust in God that something good comes out of it. God’s ways are not our ways. There is a law of compensation at work that few understand.

AlanG isn’t here to be convinced or consider our wisdom.

 

[ding]

If there was only one God, why did he allow so many contradictory religions? (Hey I was only 12.)

But you’re not 12 anymore. Do you have better logic now that you can share?

There is no better logic than that. Everything I've learned since then only confirms it.

I have since studied religion and formed my own thoughts on their history and evolution. All that always leads me back to believe I don't know anything about any god and nobody else does either.

Saying there can be no God because there are multiple religions is an argument of a twelve year old.

It is your perception of God that is in error. If you go looking for the wrong thing you will never find the right thing.

 

[ABikerSailor]

If there was only one God, why did he allow so many contradictory religions? (Hey I was only 12.)

But you’re not 12 anymore. Do you have better logic now that you can share?

There is no better logic than that. Everything I've learned since then only confirms it.

I have since studied religion and formed my own thoughts on their history and evolution. All that always leads me back to believe I don't know anything about any god and nobody else does either.

Saying there can be no God because there are multiple religions is an argument of a twelve year old.

It is your perception of God that is in error. If you go looking for the wrong thing you will never find the right thing.

Saying that there is only one true religion limits God, because either He is everything or He is nothing. Like I said further up the thread, I personally believe that all religions are just one facet of the multiple faceted being that is God. And, just like no 2 people can ever see the same rainbow, no 2 people ever know God in the same way. The way one person perceives God is much different than what another person perceives Him as, even if they go to the same church.

And, I can kinda understand Alan's confusion. I was orphaned at 8, and lived in foster families until I ran away at 17 to live with my Grandparents. During that time I was exposed to Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist and Mormon belief systems, and each time, I was told that the people I'd just left didn't believe in God in the right way, so I needed to believe as the current family I was living with did. Pretty heavy trip for a kid.

And, that confusion lasted until my 30's, when I met a dude named Owen who told me that my confusion and irritation was understandable, but if I looked for the similarities rather than the differences in each religion, I'd get a lot further.

That is one of the reasons I believe the multi faceted approach that I do. Jewish and Taoist beliefs are remarkably similar, and the same things that Jesus taught, so did Buddha.

 

[ding]

If there was only one God, why did he allow so many contradictory religions?

Free will.
Same as for greed, jealousy, hate, and evil. God instructs; we obey or not.

Not buying it. How many children, growing up in the mountains of Pakistan today have been exposed to Christianity? How many growing up 1,000 years ago in China? How many growing up 2,000 years ago in the capital city of the Aztecs?

What does that have to do with anything?

Have you ever considered the possibility that you are closed minded?

Free will requires knowledge about what your choices are. Tough to be a Christian is you've never heard of Jesus.

You mean more closed minded than you or anybody else who claims knowledge from faith? I have done my homework, you may not agree with what I've found but I did make my own search for truth and as an atheist I've evaluated all the religions I've looked at equally. Have you done an honest comparison or does your faith preclude it?

We don’t seriously consider most of the choices we make. Very few people analyze the thousands of choices they make each and every day. Most of the choices we make are little. Only a few are big. And most of those don’t get critiqued until something goes wrong. Free will doesn’t require that you have foreknowledge that you are making a choice. Free will only requires that there was a different path available.

The Natural Law is written into the hearts of men. If there had never been a Bible or religion or even Jesus, we would still have the Natural Law. So we are all without excuse.

Yeah, I’ve studied all the religions. That’s why you don’t see me bad mouthing them. They have more in common than not. Which is another reason that it’s silly to hinge belief or dis-belief of God on diversity of faith. If anything the diversity of faith is evidence of God.