The Troops are concerned about gays serving openly.

[yota5]

Ed Norton would roll in his grave if he knew that you were using his image.

 

[kaz]

Where have homosexuals inserted their sexuality into the military?

I think that's what they're trying to avoid...

How so?

Are you claiming homosexuals are less professional than other soldiers?

Wow, you didn't get it?

 

[gekaap]

seems like troops are not as professional as they should be

I agree, some find it necessary to join the military and then tell other people what their sexual orientation is. Sounds like a political objective rather then a defending your country objective. Not at all professional in that profession.

Way to completely mischaracterize the issue. Nobody's talking about having gay pride parades on post, or rubbing one's sexual orientation in other people's faces. But under the DADT policy a gay service member was breaking the law simply by kissing their partner, even if in the privacy of their own home. The UCMJ applies to service members AT ALL TIMES AND IN ALL PLACES. So if a service member went to visit his/her parents, and said "Mom and dad, I'm gay" then that service member would be violating the law, and could be subject to discharge if his/her chain of command happened to be walking past the window and overheard. Yes, it was called "Don't ask, don't tell" but under the law as it was written any homosexual conduct was explicitly prohibited as being "incompatible" with military service. Let's stop pretending the ugly duck is going to grow up into a beautiful swan, and let's call a duck a duck. Up until now, the military has been discriminating against gay people for no good reason.

There is nothing unprofessional about a gay service member wanting the law to allow him/her to serve his/her country without a requirement that s/he abstain from sex for the entirety of his/her term of service. There is nothing unprofessional about a service member wanting the same rights and protections as others, and to not have those rights and protections defined based on his/her sexual orientation. I realize that your irrational hatred for homosexuality creates a force of emotion inside you that makes you feel like it MUST be wrong for SOME reason. But the truth is that you are, based on your own demonstration, completely ignorant on the issue and how it plays out in the real world. And probably a little too personally involved to make a meaningful opinion, since you seem to be driven by an insecurity over your own sexual orientation.

 

[gekaap]

Awe come on momanalhedhunter, don't yank a knot in your shorts. I don't want you to break anything. If you want me to respect your homosexual point of view then you must give equal respect to my point of view. Deviants do not belong in the military. One last thing. If it thinks like REMF, and it writes like a REMF, then it's a REMF. By the way I did serve.

Gays aren't deviants. But I'll tell you who doesn't belong in the military: Your son. If he is so prejudice toward his fellow American, unwilling to risk his life to save a fellow brother or sister in arms, and is so detached from a love for protecting people's equal rights and freedoms, then he has no place in the military. He is a disgrace to his uniform. I served with people who were gay. I knew it, pretty much everyone knew it. We didn't care. We did not fear them. We protected them from discover from the chain of command. We saw them as human beings and fellow soldiers. It has been my honor to know them.

 

[Grace]

The guy next to you watching your back is the guy watching your back. And your son should be watching his. If one falls, the other picks him up. And vice versa. Period.

 

[Grace]

Why are you afraid of showers? Personal inadequacies? (rightwinger)

No fear here rightwinger. Dealing with deviants is like walking through a cesspool as leaches attach themselves to your body. No fear is there. I just have a feeling of absolute revulsion. Do you know what I mean?

I truly hope your son makes it home safe and sound and if he is sent back, he stays safe and sound. I also hope if he falls, the guys shielding him with their own bodies from further harm dont have the mindset of your son because those guys happen to be gay.

 

[yota5]

IIMERU, thank you for the kind words about my son. They are appreciated. However, on this issue we will have to continue to disagree. When I served I trusted my battle buddies with my life. In turn they trusted me. I didn't trust gays back then. I don't trust them today. I can't remember one active duty soldier that I've talked to recently that feels any differently. You may not agree with that, but that is just the way it is. Unfortunately, your opinions wont change that view point to any measurable degree. That is why a lot of very good people have indicated that they wont reenlist. They as do I feel that political correctness doesn't belong in a fox hole.

 

[Grace]

Whats going on in a fox hole is men and women fighting to save their own lives, the lives of their brothers and sisters in arms, and for our country. Nothing else matters.
To put a value of sexual preference in such a situation is....sad.

 

[blu]

Whats going on in a fox hole is men and women fighting to save their own lives, the lives of their brothers and sisters in arms, and for our country. Nothing else matters.
To put a value of sexual preference in such a situation is....sad.

its what jesus would have done

 

[bodecea]

Well I can see that my post drew out openly gay deviants. Good Morning. Unprotected gay sex subsequent to HIV testing poses a real threat. HIV is spread through direct contact with blood. That is why it is classified as a most dangerous bio-hazard at any accident scene. Universal precautions are observed. If you pin heads had really served in the military you would know this.

By the way my pussy son, has served 3 combat tours in Iraq. His unit has been tapped for deployment to Afghanistan. At the moment he is passing on the skills that he honed in combat to deploying troops at Camp Shelby. He is a war fighter trainer. What have you maggots done for your country lately? Whining doesn't count.

Ah...the plot thickens.

Care to show us the increased threat of HIV in the military now? How do you....I mean, your son...figure this?

 

[bodecea]

It is interesting seeing responses from people who've never put their butts on the line. I'll say this again HIV testing occurs every 12 months. A lot of nefarious activity can happen in that time. You should be aware that HIV testing isn't a cure. If a homo, engages in unprotected sex subsequent to HIV testing the threat of HIV isn't diminished. If you doubt what I say ask your doctor. The fear of HIV isn't a component that you want to introduce to the equation when the troops are on the battle field with blood and gore flying all over. I know that is a hard scenario to fathom when your sitting smugly and safely behind your key board. Then again REMFS have always had that problem.

21 years retired Navy here. You are spewing a load of dingos' kidneys my friend.

 

[bodecea]

Awe come on momanalhedhunter, don't yank a knot in your shorts. I don't want you to break anything. If you want me to respect your homosexual point of view then you must give equal respect to my point of view. Deviants do not belong in the military. One last thing. If it thinks like REMF, and it writes like a REMF, then it's a REMF. By the way I did serve.

Methinks you are spinning a tale here about any "son".

 

[bodecea]

Why are you afraid of showers? Personal inadequacies? (rightwinger)

No fear here rightwinger. Dealing with deviants is like walking through a cesspool as leaches attach themselves to your body. No fear is there. I just have a feeling of absolute revulsion. Do you know what I mean?

Why are you under the mistaken impression that someone would want to look at you in the shower?

 

[Dr Grump]

I had a conversation with my oldest son yesterday. He is career military. He just finished his fourth sensitivity training class about gays serving openly in the military. The troops can't comment on this issue or make disparaging remarks about the CinC. They've been advised that this is the way it will be; live with it.

In all of the classes they've been given one thing has been left out. The danger of HIV infection through direct contact with blood. Blood is the biggest bio-hazard on any accident scene. Civilians will say put on surgical gloves. A soldier would say that when you're wearing your buddies brains all over your face that wont do any good.

As a soldier I could count on my buddies doing everything in their power to bring me or my body back home. My buddies could count on the same thing from me. An openly gay soldier on the battlefield will lay where they fall. This is a very real degradation of military core values. Yet the troops feel that touching the openly gay soldiers blood would expose them to the very really threat of AIDS. That is a death sentence that will be resisted.

Morale is already being affected in a very negative way. The troops feel like they're being kicked in the stomach, and that they're being put into a life threatening situation. Once again people who've never served a second in uniform are making life threatening decisions that will carry dire consequences for the young men and women that this country sends into harms way. I think that congress, and the president need sensitivity training.

Your boy and his pals should harden the fuck up or get out of the military. Gays have been serving in the military since adam. A lot of people who are not gay have HIV.

 

[bodecea]

IIMERU, thank you for the kind words about my son. They are appreciated. However, on this issue we will have to continue to disagree. When I served I trusted my battle buddies with my life. In turn they trusted me. I didn't trust gays back then. I don't trust them today. I can't remember one active duty soldier that I've talked to recently that feels any differently. You may not agree with that, but that is just the way it is. Unfortunately, your opinions wont change that view point to any measurable degree. That is why a lot of very good people have indicated that they wont reenlist. They as do I feel that political correctness doesn't belong in a fox hole.

Obviously, it would not have been a wise thing for any of your gay ship mates to trust you.

 

[Toome]

Toome, I see from your unit patch that you were in the 525th Military Intelligence Brigade (Airborne.) Let me be the first to thank you for your service to this country. You've earned the right to your opinion. I have earned that right too.

You and will have to respectfully agree to disagree on this matter. My most recent reply above address' the sexual aspect of this issue directly. I can't think of anyone that I've served with, veterans that I've met, or current active duty personnel that agrees with the concept of gays serving actively in the military.

I believe that unit cohesion, and esprit de corp is at risk here. Active duty personnel have been ordered to keep their mouths shut about this matter. You know the drill. These suppressive measures don't make the problem go away. It continues to fester, and the troops feel as thought they've been betrayed. I don't see how that can lead to a positive outcome.

Fair enough.

I agree that the military tends to be heavy-handed when it comes to these Kumbaya training situations by force-feeding these new concepts. Seems that the upper crust has forgotten that the troops in the trenches will sort things out themselves. It was one of the things I found hypocritical when Congress came out with the Honor and Dignity Act, or whatever it was called. That was when the military decided to pull out all the Penthouse magazines from the PX because it somehow smeared the image of the fighting soldier. Yet troops were being trained how to thrust their bayonets into certain vulnerability areas in order to efficiently kill their enemy.

Regarding gays in the military, I think we will eventually evolve just like society has evolved. The only requirement for gays or anyone else is to dress-right-dress, aim at the center of mass and never leave a fallen comrade behind. Do those three things, and I don't think it matters whether that soldier is a devout Christian, atheist, black, white, male, female, gay or straight.

Like I said, I think the troops on the ground will sort these things out.

Thank you for your service. Hope your son returns home safely.

 

[yota5]

Thanks for the kind words Toome. Until my sons deployed I never realized just how much my mother went through when I served. I was lucky. While my boys and I we stayed in touch daily by e-mail. My mother had to rely on snail mail. That made her wait much harder. I can see now why she would chew me out with such gusto for being too busy to write.

Mike is a scout with the 278th RCT. His job was to clear convoy routes of IEDs in Iraq. He has experienced danger up close, and personal. He's survived IEDs, and one suicide bomber that blew himself up, and the little girl that he'd abducted for cover outside of FOB Cobra. It's funny how you never hear those stores in the news, but then that is another topic.

Mikes younger brother Steve, served in Iraq with the 101st ABN/ Air Assault. He was in the push from Kuwait, to Baghdad, and then on to Mosul. His unit saw a lot of hard fighting along the way.

There is a long military tradition in this family. I'm very proud of my boys. Both of them answered the call and served well.

The bottom line Toome, is that our young warriors go through a lot. They give 200%, 24/7. We have the finest military in the world because our young warriors make it so. Our troops feel betrayed.

Your probably right that the military will evolve. It always does. The military has a long history of loyalty, duty, respect, honor, integrity, selfless service, and personal courage. I just think that this latest social engineering experiment will be a very painful process.

Toome, we'll probably never change each others minds on this subject. But, I must say that it has been refreshing to disagree with someone on an issue, and still have a rational, reasoned debate. I wish you the best. Have a good day.

 

[Seawytch]

"How is it "bolstered" by your military service? I know you served with gays and lesbians, but did you know you did?" (seawytch)

Any one who has been in a leadership position in the military knows what a profound impact that morale/ esprit de corp have on unit readiness, and wouldn't have to ask. It sounds as though your primary interest is to give deviants access to the shower room.

What contributes to high morale/ esprit de corps? Many things do. None of the of the following contributing factors have anything to do with gays serving openly in the military. But, the following factors have everything to do with unit cohesion, and operational competence.

*The quality of leadership, and training.
*Having an all volunteer, competent, highly motivated force.
*A belief in the core values the military represents, and fights for.
*Loyalty to country, unit, and comrades in arms.
*A sense of pride in the customs, and traditions of the Military.
*A profound sense of camaraderie. (Those of you who haven't served wont understand.)

If you go up and reread Granny's post you will find a well articulated reply that gets to the heart of this matter. Thank you Granny.

Let me say this again. "Deviants do not belong in the military." (yota5)

None of the things you listed have anything to do with a persons sexual orientation. There is ZERO evidence that having honestly serving gays and lesbians will have any affect on unit cohesion or moral. In fact, all the evidence points to the opposite (as shown by over a score of our allies that have lifted their bans without incident). Do you think our troops are less professional than theirs?

 

[Seawytch]

The one question so far every liberal has failed to answer is why it's necessary for them to tell. They are in the military, why do they have the burning need to tell the military they want to have sex with other men? When liberals can answer that question so that the answer is not a political statement I'll support it and not until then. No soldier should join the military to make any political statement, they should join the military to defend their country.

Why is it necessary for heterosexuals to "tell"? Gays and lesbians want to serve under the exact same rules and regulations that heterosexuals serve under and not have a separate, much more restrictive, set of rules just for them.

 

[bodecea]

Thanks for the kind words Toome. Until my sons deployed I never realized just how much my mother went through when I served. I was lucky. While my boys and I we stayed in touch daily by e-mail. My mother had to rely on snail mail. That made her wait much harder. I can see now why she would chew me out with such gusto for being too busy to write.

Mike is a scout with the 278th RCT. His job was to clear convoy routes of IEDs in Iraq. He has experienced danger up close, and personal. He's survived IEDs, and one suicide bomber that blew himself up, and the little girl that he'd abducted for cover outside of FOB Cobra. It's funny how you never hear those stores in the news, but then that is another topic.

Mikes younger brother Steve, served in Iraq with the 101st ABN/ Air Assault. He was in the push from Kuwait, to Baghdad, and then on to Mosul. His unit saw a lot of hard fighting along the way.

There is a long military tradition in this family. I'm very proud of my boys. Both of them answered the call and served well.

The bottom line Toome, is that our young warriors go through a lot. They give 200%, 24/7. We have the finest military in the world because our young warriors make it so. Our troops feel betrayed.

Your probably right that the military will evolve. It always does. The military has a long history of loyalty, duty, respect, honor, integrity, selfless service, and personal courage. I just think that this latest social engineering experiment will be a very painful process.

Toome, we'll probably never change each others minds on this subject. But, I must say that it has been refreshing to disagree with someone on an issue, and still have a rational, reasoned debate. I wish you the best. Have a good day.

Actually, the bottom line is that those troops who happen to be gay also go thru a lot. They also give 200%, 24/7. They also are part of that long history of loyalty, duty, respect, honor, integrity, selfless service, and personal courage.