The Troops are concerned about gays serving openly.

[sinister59]

You're right seawytch. The deviance of gays (what could possibly be gay about this?), and lesbians is my opinion. It is based on my religious, and moral believes. It is bolstered by my experiences in uniformed service. I stand by my opinion. "Deviants do not belong in the military." (yota5)

LOL christian where the biggest deviants I served with , old guys screwing girls young enough to be their grand daughter , the killing in the name of jesus , and you want to call gays deviants ?
Christianity is a deviant religion . and black people were also considered deviants ,

you have no moral beliefs .
you would whine if a soldier saved you fat ass because they are gay / better to let you die .

I only knew of one gay in service and he did his job better then I did mine .

your a bigot , but think of this , a guy lives with his mother at the age of 36 , no girl friend , hangs around other guys drinking , some quit their jobs left their wives and kids .

that today's definition of a bum . say a prayer to him ass hole .

 

[rightwinger]

After your most recent reply I think that I'm getting a clear idea over what kind of meat that you're talking about eating rightwinger. That puts your reply into the proper prospective.

When it comes to serving in combat, your son may be as brave as they come. When it comes to interacting with homosexuals, he is a big pussy. Next time he whines to mommy and daddy about having to serve with gays, you need to slap him and tell him he is a big pussy and that his attitudes towards gays were dismissed in the 1980s
You will do him and the country a great service

In fairness to you son, I do not really think he is a pussy. I think you are using your sons service to the country as a platform to pass on your own outdated anti-gay biases
As an active member of the military, your son would be privy to the latest information on AIDS and other blood transmitted diseases. He would not be regurgitating Reagan era AIDS fears.
You, however, have a different agenda that you are trying to pass of as that of our armed services

 

[sinister59]

Yeah, I bet you served with distinction in the 101st Arm Chair Division at Fort Loving Room. (momanalhedhunter)

No, but my son was in Mozul, Iraq with 101st. ABN/ Air Assault, in 2003. I was in the 1/73rd Arty/ 1/23 INF/ 1/38 INF/ 1/22 Arty. How about you?

if your sons life was saved by a gay soldier you would still bitch .
you must be a baptist , do you protest military funerals too

 

[blu]

Yep, you got me. I'm a business owner. In fact I own two businesses. I oppress people by giving them jobs and paying them benefits and that sort of thing. The sheep are over there fighting for me and my greed. Ka-ching.

I am curious though, why are you here if that's all this country is about?

do you use the tax-payer funded american military to secure your raw materials and other interests in the areas you do business?

We are alike in our view the US is in the middle east because of oil and it's wrong

We're different in that I don't boil down my entire view of my country to be one issue

you are insane if you think it is just oil...

 

[kaz]

do you use the tax-payer funded american military to secure your raw materials and other interests in the areas you do business?

We are alike in our view the US is in the middle east because of oil and it's wrong

We're different in that I don't boil down my entire view of my country to be one issue

you are insane if you think it is just oil...

You're not going to get far when this is how you argue with people who are pretty much on your side but aren't batshit insane like you are

 

[Shogun]

 

[sinister59]

After your most recent reply I think that I'm getting a clear idea over what kind of meat that you're talking about eating rightwinger. That puts your reply into the proper prospective.

When it comes to serving in combat, your son may be as brave as they come. When it comes to interacting with homosexuals, he is a big pussy. Next time he whines to mommy and daddy about having to serve with gays, you need to slap him and tell him he is a big pussy and that his attitudes towards gays were dismissed in the 1980s
You will do him and the country a great service

In fairness to you son, I do not really think he is a pussy. I think you are using your sons service to the country as a platform to pass on your own outdated anti-gay biases
As an active member of the military, your son would be privy to the latest information on AIDS and other blood transmitted diseases. He would not be regurgitating Reagan era AIDS fears.
You, however, have a different agenda that you are trying to pass of as that of our armed services

I find the moral teaching some troops have is disgusting , to rape a women in you unit because she's a woman is deplorable and its done by "straight" guys , so how you can claim gays are immoral is just stupid unless you think a woman deserves it because of a combat role , and the majority of them are christians like yourself .

 

[Momanohedhunter]

Yeah, I bet you served with distinction in the 101st Arm Chair Division at Fort Loving Room. (momanalhedhunter)

No, but my son was in Mozul, Iraq with 101st. ABN/ Air Assault, in 2003. I was in the 1/73rd Arty/ 1/23 INF/ 1/38 INF/ 1/22 Arty. How about you?

N.M.C.B 74. 1993 to 2002 Google it. And from 2002 to 2006 in the reserve.So he is a cannon cocker in an air assault division or something ?And an officer to? You sure he is not in the rear with the gear ? It would appear so if he has all this time to go to PC classes.

 

[Cal]

I had a conversation with my oldest son yesterday. He is career military. He just finished his fourth sensitivity training class about gays serving openly in the military. The troops can't comment on this issue or make disparaging remarks about the CinC. They've been advised that this is the way it will be; live with it.

In all of the classes they've been given one thing has been left out. The danger of HIV infection through direct contact with blood. Blood is the biggest bio-hazard on any accident scene. Civilians will say put on surgical gloves. A soldier would say that when you're wearing your buddies brains all over your face that wont do any good.

As a soldier I could count on my buddies doing everything in their power to bring me or my body back home. My buddies could count on the same thing from me. An openly gay soldier on the battlefield will lay where they fall. This is a very real degradation of military core values. Yet the troops feel that touching the openly gay soldiers blood would expose them to the very really threat of AIDS. That is a death sentence that will be resisted.

Morale is already being affected in a very negative way. The troops feel like they're being kicked in the stomach, and that they're being put into a life threatening situation. Once again people who've never served a second in uniform are making life threatening decisions that will carry dire consequences for the young men and women that this country sends into harms way. I think that congress, and the president need sensitivity training.

..Because obviously we all know that straight people aren't susceptible to AIDS..

 

[blu]

We are alike in our view the US is in the middle east because of oil and it's wrong

We're different in that I don't boil down my entire view of my country to be one issue

you are insane if you think it is just oil...

You're not going to get far when this is how you argue with people who are pretty much on your side but aren't batshit insane like you are

if you think the military is used for anything but protecting the empire, whose profits go directly to defense contractors and whose spoils go directly to private corporations, then you aren't on my 'side'. no war since WWII has been about 'freedom' and we only entered WII after congress stopped our corporations from investing in and bankrolling the nazis.

 

[Momanohedhunter]

I had a conversation with my oldest son yesterday. He is career military. He just finished his fourth sensitivity training class about gays serving openly in the military. The troops can't comment on this issue or make disparaging remarks about the CinC. They've been advised that this is the way it will be; live with it.

In all of the classes they've been given one thing has been left out. The danger of HIV infection through direct contact with blood. Blood is the biggest bio-hazard on any accident scene. Civilians will say put on surgical gloves. A soldier would say that when you're wearing your buddies brains all over your face that wont do any good.

As a soldier I could count on my buddies doing everything in their power to bring me or my body back home. My buddies could count on the same thing from me. An openly gay soldier on the battlefield will lay where they fall. This is a very real degradation of military core values. Yet the troops feel that touching the openly gay soldiers blood would expose them to the very really threat of AIDS. That is a death sentence that will be resisted.

Morale is already being affected in a very negative way. The troops feel like they're being kicked in the stomach, and that they're being put into a life threatening situation. Once again people who've never served a second in uniform are making life threatening decisions that will carry dire consequences for the young men and women that this country sends into harms way. I think that congress, and the president need sensitivity training.

..Because obviously we all know that straight people aren't susceptible to AIDS..

nor booty sex.

 

[yota5]

"How is it "bolstered" by your military service? I know you served with gays and lesbians, but did you know you did?" (seawytch)

Any one who has been in a leadership position in the military knows what a profound impact that morale/ esprit de corp have on unit readiness, and wouldn't have to ask. It sounds as though your primary interest is to give deviants access to the shower room.

What contributes to high morale/ esprit de corps? Many things do. None of the of the following contributing factors have anything to do with gays serving openly in the military. But, the following factors have everything to do with unit cohesion, and operational competence.

*The quality of leadership, and training.
*Having an all volunteer, competent, highly motivated force.
*A belief in the core values the military represents, and fights for.
*Loyalty to country, unit, and comrades in arms.
*A sense of pride in the customs, and traditions of the Military.
*A profound sense of camaraderie. (Those of you who haven't served wont understand.)

If you go up and reread Granny's post you will find a well articulated reply that gets to the heart of this matter. Thank you Granny.

Let me say this again. "Deviants do not belong in the military." (yota5)

 

[Qball]

My problem with the repeal of DADT was that the study used to gauge attitudes on openly gay soldiers didn't specifically ask whether the troops wanted to serve with gay soldiers or if they felt DADT should be repealed. I get why they don't consult troops on policy matters, but then, it looks curiously timid to ask around the issue instead of being direct. My guess is they were just looking for cover to simply repeal it so liberals wouldn't be disappointed.

 

[Montrovant]

"How is it "bolstered" by your military service? I know you served with gays and lesbians, but did you know you did?" (seawytch)

Any one who has been in a leadership position in the military knows what a profound impact that morale/ esprit de corp have on unit readiness, and wouldn't have to ask. It sounds as though your primary interest is to give deviants access to the shower room.

What contributes to high morale/ esprit de corps? Many things do. None of the of the following contributing factors have anything to do with gays serving openly in the military. But, the following factors have everything to do with unit cohesion, and operational competence.

*The quality of leadership, and training.
*Having an all volunteer, competent, highly motivated force.
*A belief in the core values the military represents, and fights for.
*Loyalty to country, unit, and comrades in arms.
*A sense of pride in the customs, and traditions of the Military.
*A profound sense of camaraderie. (Those of you who haven't served wont understand.)

If you go up and reread Granny's post you will find a well articulated reply that gets to the heart of this matter. Thank you Granny.

Let me say this again. "Deviants do not belong in the military." (yota5)

So, enlighten us if you would on who qualifies as a deviant? It would be good to know who needs to be kicked out of and prevented from joining the military.

 

[Political Junky]

No other country has reported problems with having openly gay people in their military.

 

[rightwinger]

No other country has reported problems with having openly gay people in their military.

Our soldiers are more sensitive than other countries

 

[yota5]

"Homosexuality is about sexuality. The esprit d'corps critical to military service, especially where heterosexual men and women serve together, is about ignoring sexuality. There is no reason for it to be a "gay right" to inject sexuality into that mix. If it is a need for individual homosexuals to do this, they shouldn't serve. This is as it is for heterosexuals as well. Heterosexuals who cannot contain themselves, who must overtly express sexual intentions in the workplace, end up out of today's military also. The sacrifice of our youth in the service of our nation is heroic enough. Their unit cohesion depends on brotherhood and trust. That brotherhood (and, where applicable, sisterhood) depends, to a great extent, on the ability to overcome the need to make overt one's sexuality and sexual intentions. Making "gay rights" an issue by injecting sexuality into dormitories, showers, and foxholes is not in the best interests of the military.

There are many areas of life and society in which America willingly chooses to help those who are, in any way, limited by the conditions or birth or nature. We willingly place wheel chair ramps for the handicapped and provide brail for the blind in public education. We are a kind and magnanimous people. We consider the effects of poverty on educational development and seek to compensate so that the playing field is level for all. We even allow for mental disease to mitigate in our judgments of criminal offenses. However, in the military and in emergency services, ability, and only ability, should be the criteria for service. Weakness, whether heterosexual or homosexual, should not be enshrined in the military codes as "protected" in any way."

Three Reasons Gays Should Not Serve "Openly" in the Military

 

[Toome]

Interesting thread.

1. No, I don't think the average troop is homophobic nor obsessed with what he or she is going to do when gay soldiers are allowed to be open about it. Soldiers already know that they serve with gays, they know who they are and all they really care about is whether or not that soldier will do his or her job when the shit hits the fan. The military will still have its rules regarding conduct. So if there's some fear that soldiers will somehow become flamboyant and prance around the parade field, that's a pretty narrow-minded and stupid stereotype. All troops will still have to toe the line, march straight and keep the formation aligned.

2. There's another huge stereotype being perpetuated in here about gay soldiers. FACTS show that those who have come out in protest to the DADT policy have been soldiers decorated for actions in combat; they've come from combat MOSes as well as non-combat MOSes. So if you think this is a REMF-only issue, then you're being stupid and ignorant of the real world. Zero credibility in my book.

3. When I was stationed in Korea, I heard all about some of the venereal diseases that make HIV look like a bad cough. And no matter how often you put the word out about sexually transmitted diseases, the troops will do what they want because the medics' schedule is still busy with cases of STDs. However, I'll say this for the military, when it comes to taking precautions against bloodborne transfers of diseases, the military is pretty top-notch. The likelihood of getting HIV through a blood transfusion is pretty low. The likelihood of catching a disease because of poor personal choices, however, still remains high. It's practically a tradition that dates back through the years and boils down to thinking straight with one head but making decisions with the other head.

4. Deviant behavior? One may argue that dropping a bomb over a designated target is pretty deviant when there's no sure-fire guarantee against accidentally killing an innocent non-combatant. Getting up close and personal with a fellow human being and carving your knife up his back to get to the heart and learning how to accept that as your "duty" is pretty deviant behavior. Sorry, spare me the lectures about what's deviant and what isn't. I support the job our troops have to do, and I know what it is they have to do to survive. However, I also know that they have to somehow put all of that behind them and find a way to turn it off when they come home and try to adjust to "normal" living.

Gays already serve. Have been for years. They just don't want to be treated unfairly once they're found out.

rltw

 

[kaz]

No other country has reported problems with having openly gay people in their military.

Our soldiers are more sensitive than other countries

Well sure, they're gay. Ours also pick out nicer tapestry...

 

[kaz]

Gays already serve. Have been for years. They just don't want to be treated unfairly once they're found out.

rltw

That's why don't ask don't tell was a good policy. There is no reason gays shouldn't serve and making it as it was before don't ask don't tell made it a serious security risk because of blackmail.

The one question so far every liberal has failed to answer is why it's necessary for them to tell. They are in the military, why do they have the burning need to tell the military they want to have sex with other men? When liberals can answer that question so that the answer is not a political statement I'll support it and not until then. No soldier should join the military to make any political statement, they should join the military to defend their country.